Obama gives good speech, but what does he say?

[2rth2pwr]

from Mickey Kaus

I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother - a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street ...

The most disastrous sentence in the speech. If Obama's saying that those who fear young black men on the street are racists, the equivalents of Rev. Wright in offensiveness, then he's just insulted a whole lot of people. If he loses the votes of everyone who fears young black men, he loses the election. People fear black men on the street--as even Jesse Jackson once momentarily admitted--because they cause a wildly disproportionate share of street crime. Does Obama want to be the candidate who says that thought is verboten?
http://www.slate.com/id/2186845/

Later he says:

So when (whites) are told ... that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.

Who would tell them such a thing? Obama, a dozen paragraphs earlier, dissing his own grandmother.

Someone is sure to mention the famous Jesse Jackson comment - may as well be me

There is nothing more painful to me ... than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved. -- the Reverend Jesse Jackson, as quoted in US News, 3/10/96

[mrreowwr_kittty]

1. Okay, it's off to my "Dumbshit Repository" for you. nt

[2rth2pwr]

5. Another Obamatron with a happy ignore button

[GalleryGod]

9. The REAL Bill (not the grease stained one from Hot Springs)says "JAFO's for Hillary unite"

And go take a collective shiite..."

The REAL Bill...McKay of California!

[QC]

12. They do love to make a big production out of ignoring people, don't they?

[GalleryGod]

22. Since I worked for Bobby , I find your avatar patently offensive.

Santa Barbara,April,1968.

What's ehe last campaign(since I'm sure there's dozens) you deigned to work for, oh Sage??????

[2rth2pwr]

27. What's offensive about a pic of Bobby?

And you worked on his campaign so that means...what?

[QC]

28. Oh God, another aging hippy about to lecture us on how noble he is

and how far short we fall of his perfection. How very...ordinary.

[2rth2pwr]

35. touche

[bluedawg12]

82. How droll you are and ageist and bigoted, but not witty. sad. n/t

[emilyg]

23. As if anyone cared.

Makes me laugh.

[GalleryGod]

33. Here's a REAL Laugh, Lady-from-Georgia:

ROFLMAO...A couple of Real sick pups-Hil+bill
Here's another for You Watergate Fans:



2 Best sellers.
600 interviews.
Not a peep out of the Clintons.

And finally.....
Whose that Girl????


Let The Post 2001 Vetting Be-gin!
Now THAT makes ME laugh, Peachie!

[emilyg]

78. Hey Jersey Guy

Thanks - love those pics.

[reality based]

14. You owe me a new, clean keyboard.

I think the tide is coming for them.

[high density]

20. Yes a fresh new tide of more delegates

Bring it on.

[chascarrillo]

17. I'm not a fan of the ignore button, but it's justified for people who post Mickey Kaus columns.

I mean, dude, WTFFF?

[anamandujano]

34. And yet Andrew Sullivan is Ok. Obamatrons have to set the rules.

[annie1]

2. sry it's not related, but i just love Rev. JJ so much. :).

[2rth2pwr]

29. This is my favorite speech of his, I saw Jesse speak at a high school

in NM when he was running and I thought he was incredible.

[annie1]

38. lucky! *jealous*

[AZBlue]

3. Please check your anger and fear at the door next time. Thanks!

[chascarrillo]

4. Mickey Kaus??? Jesus Effin' Christ

:wtf:

:wtf:

:wtf:

[2rth2pwr]

24. can you address the points and not the messenger?

[RBInMaine]

6. Need an English lesson in essay analysis?

[2rth2pwr]

30. yea, help me out.

[jody]

7. BO doesn't have to say anything substantive to the faithful who chant "Hope, Change". n/t

[GalleryGod]

18. Delegate John Adams used "hope" as a reason for Independence in 1776

Not good enough for our oh so smarmy Jody.
Go take a collective shite...
Here's some reading to take with you to your proctologist's office, Jody..

Billary a couple of really SICK PUPS.

[2rth2pwr]

32. Jesus Christ uttered the word hope one time I believe

What does that have to do with anything?

[bluedawg12]

83. Christ was just the messiah, this THE Barackobama n/t

[Berry Cool]

8. Mickey Kaus is an idiot.

Or he'd realize that when people are fearful on a dark street at night, statistics are not the reason. Irrational fears are.

Irrational fears don't make people racists, but they do reveal how easy it is to fall victim to anxieties that people not like oneself are the ones one need most fear, when statistically, that may be either true OR untrue.

One can't make thoughts verboten, but one can point out when they reflect stereotyping and prejudices that have nothing to do with statistics.

Statistics operate at the level of fact. Fears operate at the level of emotion. You can't compare the two. Otherwise, all I'd have to do to keep you from being afraid of walking down a dark alley at night is to say "You know, statistics say that only 2% of all crimes that occurred in the city in the past year occurred in this alley." Or "Only 1 out of 100 people stands a chance of being mugged or raped here, so don't you worry." It's not likely to be much comfort.

[2rth2pwr]

15. How about Barak? "So when (whites) are told ... that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods

are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time."

[goodgd_yall]

49. I don't understand your problem with that line

What I gather from your OP is that you don't think white people are told that their concerns about crime in the city are based on racism. It happens to be true that people say this. Obama was making a point of showing the derivation of some of the tensions between whites and blacks.

[2rth2pwr]

56. I don't have a problem with it. I have an issue with him throwing his

Grandmother under the bus because she voiced the same concern, and he puts her on the same level as Wright. A grandmother with her own personal feelings versus a Pastor

teaching divisive and inflammatory ideas to thousands and selling proudly as the best of on the church website.

capiche?

[bluedawg12]

84. He was welling up telling his own The Barrackobama 1st comming

Liturgey.

Book of Barack
Chpt. 1
Verse i.

Letters to the white non believers.

I send you greetings from Barackobamaland, the first coming is nigh at hand.
For I am called and I am chosen.
Make way for the son of righteousness and light.

The Reverend Jerrimiah was one who cried out for me in the desert and I didnot throw him under the desert 4:52 bus.
Make way for the holy.

[Chulanowa]

71. I don't see why it's difficult to understand

Or how that's racist. It's pretty obvious that when you dismiss someone's opinion with some insult or blowoff of some sort, they resent it.

Take the situation he's speaking of, White concern about crime in urban areas. Which do you think gets better results? Calling said person a racist pig, or asking them "Why do you feel that way?"

The first throws them on the defensive. The second makes them pause to think about why.

[2rth2pwr]

75. see post #56

[Drunken Irishman]

10. That's right, I forgot, Jesse Jackson speaks for every black person.

Drr, why didn't I think of that.

[lakeguy]

11. you're part of the problem.

or maybe you just have another horse in this race, i don't care. if you deny what the point of obama's speech was, whether or not you pick and choose out of context quotes from his speech, you are part of the problem. we have always had a race problem in this country and people like you do an injustice to those of us who continue to fight for equality for all.

ignore.

[2rth2pwr]

16. words matter.

[Teaser]

13. Kaus once had sex with me and never called back

He was a very selfish lover.

[jefferson_dem]

19. "...has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe."

Was it you or dirtbag Kaus who lopped off this fragment. It doesn't matter. Seems you and dirtbag Kaus are willing to excuse racial prejudice just because "everyone does it." Thanks for illustrating why Obama's message is so truly necessary.

[theredpen]

21. *PLONK*

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Danger Mouse]

37. excuse me? calling obama that is DEFINITELY against du rules.

:puke: indeed.

[goodgd_yall]

54. "Stick it"?

I thought that was a very important disclosure. His point is our loved ones are not perfect yet we still love them. I can only guess you have more judgement about his mother than he does. I didn't think of it as "sticking it" to his grandmother.

[Forkboy]

59. Gee...so much for your words last night.

I'm so shocked.

[Emit]

63. Your comment says much more about you than Obama, IMO. n/t

[americanstranger]

64. Nice.

Another racist revealed. Be proud.

- as

[cottonseed]

65. Bad.

:eyes:

[ecstatic]

69. oops wrong turn. Stormfront is that way -->

[tammywammy]

70. Um, wow

You're quite disgusting.

[WillyT]

26. I Guess You'd Have To Be Older Than 12...

Take a history class, maybe...

:wtf:

[mzmolly]

89. LOL

Indeed. ;)

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DesEtoiles]

36. He says..."Choirs will sing"

[Danger Mouse]

39. More trash from you.

Not surprising in the least.

[2rth2pwr]

40. Not one Obamatron willing to address the hypocrisy of their leader.

typical

[chascarrillo]

43. I would like you to address the hypocrisy of quoting Mickey Kaus on DU first.

kthxbai

[Danger Mouse]

46. i become less willing to address anything with you when you refer to my fellow obama supporters

as obamatrons. you want to have a discussion? drop the childish snark and personal attacks.
if you want to act superior and sling insults, you'll get it returned to you.
incidentally, i saw nothing wrong with his comments.

[JimGinPA]

41. I Believe What He Is Trying To Say Maybe It's Time To THINK...

If you're really a democrat maybe you should, regardless of who you support.

[2rth2pwr]

44. It's time to Think! perfect, that fits right in with the rest

of his pink bunny oratory. We are the ones we have been waiting for. -Waiting for what?

Change we can believe in. -??

A time for a new kind of politics. -Right

[Forkboy]

42. "Half the Democrats are going to vote for McCain, and I'm going to be one of them."

Mickey Kaus - http://althouse.blogspot.com/2008/02/half-democrats-are-going-to-vote-for.html

[2rth2pwr]

48. Who cares who wrote it? These are Obama's words

do you think they belong to someone else?

[Forkboy]

52. Obama's words...Kaus' spin.

Thanks for playing.

[2rth2pwr]

58. Take a shot at unspinning it. please.

[Forkboy]

61. Nope, not my job to unravel the workings of a mind that will vote McCain.

[sunnystarr]

45. You need some serious help

Maybe a brain transplant would do it ..

[2rth2pwr]

50. another one who can't face Obama's own words.

[KAZ]

62. It's just flame baiting, to garner attention, and to get your goat.

Just leave it be.

[2rth2pwr]

66. ...

[KAZ]

72. Nice picture of you! Who's the guy in the hat?

[2rth2pwr]

73. LOL!

good one

[Jersey Devil]

47. plonk

Plonk is a Usenet jargon term for adding a particular poster to one's kill file such that the poster's future postings are completely ignored. It was first used in 1989 and by 1994 was a commonly used term on Usenet regarding kill file additions.

The word is an example of onomatopoeia, intended to humorously represent the supposed sound<1> of the user hitting the kill file. It is also sometimes given as an acronym standing for Please Log Off, Net Kook, though this is likely a backronym. Other used expressions are "put lamer on killfile" <2> and Please Leave Our Newsgroup: Killfile!

It is also used as a verb: "I plonked that idiot Tom". As a public repudiation of the plonked poster, it is appended to the end of one's reply (or may constitute the entire reply).

[2rth2pwr]

51. for reference, please see reply #5

thank you

[Political Heretic]

53. Knock Knock. Whose there?

[2rth2pwr]

74. Another Obama faithful happy with violent imagery involving

women

[Political Heretic]

77. And animals!

:eyes:

[Armstead]

55. perhaps you and the writer of that blog might benefit from English 101

[2rth2pwr]

57. please show me the errors.

[Armstead]

87. A basic error is not connecting the dots within the speech

First, my response was in part directly to your thread title. "Obamah gives good speech but what does he say?" It is quite clear what he said. You may disagree, but it is disingenuous to claim that one of the most direct and specific (as opposed to general platitudes) speechs about race ever given by a politician didn;t "say" anything. or that it was too hard to follow.

Second, there is a ridiculous parsing in the column you cited. Maybe that's a byproduct of having to listening to politicians like Hillary who say nothing that is not "focus grouped" and sound-byte oriented. But my reaction -- and that of many otehrs -- was pleasant surprise at hearing a politician speaking like adult human beings and being straightforward.

One example of excessive parsing:

----"Obama: 'As such, Reverend Wright's comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity,'.....Doesn't Obama mean Rev. Wright's comments were 'not only divisive but wrong,' rather than the other way around? Isn't it worse to be wrong than "divisive"? Is unity the overriding virtue for Obama?".....

So it is a big deal within a paragraph whether the word 'wrong' is placed before 'divisive' or vice versa?


Another example: "Here he keeps the anti-victim language at a muffled level of high generality. Obama doesn't talk about never-married mothers, for example, or non-marrying non-working fathers--all things Bill Clinton was able to mention. Obama talks about general "responsibility" and a failure to spend time reading."

Here is where English 101 might help. Obama made it perfectly clear what he was talking about there, and it is well known in the general discussions of this over the years. He didn't have to mention every example of what is involved in his references to "responsibility" and his nearby references to the effect of welfare policies on the black family.

[zulchzulu]

60. Did you actually see the speech?

If you thought the sentence you posted was the "most disastrous sentence in the speech", you didn't watch or listen to the speech.

It was a complicated speech that treaded a lot of ground where most fear to tread. He was honorable, fair, intelligent, inspirational and succinct in dealing with the parameters of race issues. It wasn't fiery, it wasn't barn-storming, it wasn't shrill or angry or even accusatory.

I would suggest you watch or listen to the speech again with a fair mind.

[2rth2pwr]

68. I did watch the speech. If that wasn't, what was the most

disastrous sentence of the speech?

[americanstranger]

67. Mickey Kaus?

Christ. You people have no shame.

- as

[mzmolly]

76. I'm sorry, I understood Obama, but what are YOU saying?

nt

[2rth2pwr]

79. I have an issue with him throwing his

Grandmother under the bus because she voiced the same concern, and he puts her on the same level as Wright. A grandmother with her own personal feelings versus a Pastor

teaching divisive and inflammatory ideas to thousands and selling them proudly as "the best of" on the church website.

capiche?

[Chisox08]

86. Obama didn't throw his grandmother under the bus.

He said he will not throw his preacher under the bus just like he didn't throw his grandmother under the bus when she confessed an unjustified fear of black men and other racist and bigoted comments that she has made.

The comments that Rev. Wright made were not racist he was holding a mirror up to America and showing America the wrongs it has committed in our names over the years. The lynchings, slavery, segregation, Jim Crow law, sharecropping, senseless wars, the inferior education the African American students get, the systematic break up of the family, job and housing discrimination and our foreign policies that brought on the attacks of 9-11.

Rev. Wright didn't say what he said because he hates America but because of his love for America. Wright is an ex-Marine who after serving his country came home only to see racism and social injustice. He saw what America could be and what it should be. He sermon that is being played on Faux News and the rest of M$M is the result of pent up anger and frustrations of not only Rev. Wright but the African American community as a whole. Did Wright go overboard with his comments yes he did but he hasn't said anything worst then Jerry Falwell or John Hagee, ot Tim LaHaye has said.

Now on to the Obama speech. It was an excellent speech he spoke on race like no other politician would ever dare to speak on race. He addresses the anger of the African American and the White Communities. The racial divide and claims of reverse racism is what helped drive the Neo-con movement. To deny or dismiss the anger and resentment between the races is only helping to further drive a wedge between the American people. The anger that comes from all of the races and founded in perceived truths but it only serves the purposes of the Neo-cons who want us to remain divided so that they can continue to erode or constitution, our economy and our country. Obama in his speech was saying we can do better. America it is our time to stand up and lay down the shackles of racism, to end our slavery to hatred and break the chains bigotry. It time for we Americans to finally get together and heal the wounds of the past and not just cover them up. Lets do better America lets change this country for the better. Lets realize Dr. King's dream and judge not a person by the color of his skin but the content of his character.

[mzmolly]

88. He didn't throw anyone under a bus,

not his grandmother, not the reverend. He acknowledged that we have divisions in this country based upon different experiences. Capiche?

[NanceGreggs]

80. What does he say?

He says a lot.

Those of you who can't hear what he says might consider that the fault lies not with the speaker, but the listener.

Just sayin' ...

[Hepburn]

81. ....

[Firespirit]

85. You want it unspun? Here's your unspinning

Urban crime is a statistical fact. It occurs as a result of poverty and lack of education. It occurs in neighborhoods of every color and has done so throughout American history. It is not racist to state that there are some neighborhoods where it isn't safe to walk alone, and people who express this concern without being racist in their words DO have a right to object when someone in the "PC Police" calls them racist. Certainly there are some whites for whom urban crime is about race, but for many whites, it's about crime. If they -- or anyone of any color -- were to walk in an unsafe area, the issue is the neighborhood. It's not about race for them, it's about fear of the area.

However, it is most definitely indicative of prejudice to be walking on the sidewalk in a normal neighborhood and have a fear of any black or brown person who passes you on the street. In the urban crime situation, fear is rational -- you see a bad neighborhood. You see signs of crime with the cops standing guard outside certain businesses, or bullet holes in glass, or bars on windows, just to name a few. If you're walking on a safe street and you are fearful when you see a person of color, that is irrational, unwarranted, and racist.