Listening to Pat Buchanan and Joe Scarborough, I finally realize

[dkf]

what Black America is griping about.

They think that even though Blacks have been treated badly that they should be singing the praises of this country.

And their only concern is how the white male blue collar worker in America feels.

I mean there is no WAY black people are responsible for white males losing their jobs to outsourcing. That is absolutely the fault of the policies of this country.

I'm feeling really disgusted right now.

[bicentennial_baby]

1. Did you hear the racist/anti-semite Buchanan rattling off

all the "statistics" about Black people who rape and murder?

:mad:

[Georgie_92]

4. Both of them are fucking bigots.

[thunder rising]

6. Notice change of subject. That's how the the lie is kept alive. "They" ain't human like us.

[dkf]

17. I had to turn them off. I was feeling ill listening to them go off.

I'm really beginning to get turned off by this "love your country, especially when it screws you" deal.

Actually, its not even our country, its our leadership that betrays us. Maybe that is the problem, we should be cursing the leadership that creates these awful policies. Name them and shame them and curse them and throw the bums out!

[Cali_Democrat]

50. When did he do that? nt

[marmar]

2. Well Pat Buchanan is an unapologetic xenophobic racist freak......

Joe Scarborough is one of those people who just really doesn't get it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. I'm Not An Obama Fan And It Is Sad

There is no nuance to the conversation.

[Vinca]

5. For the life of me, I can't imagine why they're using Pat Buchanan

almost 24/7 to comment on racial issues. It's offensive.

[SoCalDem]

8. Because Pat is one of "them" n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Is He A Surrogate For White Folks?

I think he does represent a school of thought, albeit a small one...

[Vinca]

26. White folks in white robes maybe. nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

37. I don't think it's small at all

[Drachasor]

19. Because he has nothing else to do?

Most of the other people they have busy lives, from what I understand.

(I'm assuming Buchanan is pretty much retired except for MSNBC, correct me if I am wrong).

[Connie_Corleone]

7. They're too ignorant to even get the point Obama was making in the speech.

[casus belli]

12. Or that they are proving him correct. n/t

[stellanoir]

15. Juan Williams is doing pretty lousy analysis of the speech on NPR right now.

He's really contradicting himself all over the place.

[EffieBlack]

21. And it's funny that they are too arrogant and ignorant to get that Obama predicted they would

do just what they're doing.

Their heads would pop off if they knew that Obama was so much smarter than they are - and that he knows it.

And didn't you LOVE them saying that these ignorant, bigoted white men they're speaking for don't want to hear a Harvard-educated black man tell them about oppression?

Apparently they think these men would prefer to hear from a Wellesley-educated white woman or a West Point-educated white man - who are seeking to succeed a Yale and Harvard educated white man, who succeeded a Yale and Georgetown-educated white man, who succeeded a Yale-educated white man.

Get my drift? They don't think these guys have a problem with Ivy League-educated people. They're saying that these guys have a problem with an educated BLACK man.

Nothing like getting a big does of bigotry with your Morning Joe. Thanks MSNBC.

[Saturday]

9. Maybe it's because Wright has been given a free pass for giving...

hate speech from the pulpit? How dare those whities object to hate speech.

[Pirate Smile]

10. Does anyone have MSNBC's phone number?

[K Gardner]

22. Someone posts a whole list the other day and this is all I could find..

Call Jeff Immelt. He is the CEO of GE, which owns NBC. 203 373 2211

Or GE: 201-583-4090

email: [e-mail]


I'm still looking for the thread that was up yesterday.. had all sorts of main numbers on it. Thought I bookmarked it, but can't find it.

[casus belli]

11. Most racists don't realize they're racist.

That's the foremost problem with it. They don't think the message is aimed at them. And, well..I guess it isn't. This speech was for people interested in creating bridges, not destroying them.

[fasttense]

14. Well obviously Buchanan and Joe have decided

to talk about distractions instead of dealing with the problems.

They have chosen the path of hate and discord, instead of the path of justice and moving forward. Their choice.

It will be interesting to see which side the majority of Americans will choose.

[JerseygirlCT]

16. Yes, that's become apparent to me as well

The knee-jerk, visceral response from some about Wright, about issues of race. It's tribal; they're protecting their own turf - the only one that matters.

Which is why I thought the speech was so well-done. He addressed these people; he invited them in to talk. He didn't dismiss *their* concerns, as so many like Buchanan have long dismissed the concerns of the black community. He offered them dialogue, he offered them sympathy. And he challenged them to respond with the same to the people who have suffered because they've been the victims of our society's continuing problems.

Out of many; one.

[godai]

18. Buchanan related a "story" of 2 white Ph.Ds who work for the government.

Their minority supervisor sits around watching TV all day and they are so frustrated with this (according to Buchanan). Like this only happens in this direction. No white supervisors sit around work wasting the day.

This is a perfect example of what Obama is trying to say. I presume Buchanan believes his 'story' and fails to consider that the reverse situation occurs. The problem is, Buchanan is on national TV feeding this nonsense to the public. I think Buchanan's days are numbered on MSNBC...He had the 'shut up' incident and something apparently happened last night to cause an uproar (Scarborough referred to this today0.

[Drachasor]

23. It's not just that

Even if his example was representative reality (and I don't think it is), I don't Buchanan was analyzing the situation to figure out how we actually go about solving the problem. Am I right? He was probably just griping and complaining, and pandering to racial discord rather than going anywhere productive. That's the big problem Obama spoke to as well.

[godai]

43. You're right...it was all complaining.

Buchanan finished up with this little comment...black on white crime is 100 times more common. That's almost exactly what he said in it's entirety. He tossed that out just before a break.

[EffieBlack]

20. Isn't that interesting

They talked as if the ONLY people anyone needed to care about was white blue collar males.

Last week, during the Ferraro dustup, Joe wrang his hands and warned the Democrats that they were messing up by pissing off white women by showing concern about how blacks might feel about Ferraro's comments.

They show their true colors day after day. Actually, their true COLOR, singular.

[Drachasor]

24. To play a bit of devil's advocate...

White, blue collar workers are the big group Obama needs to get in PA (he's had trouble making inroads). So they have a point in terms of the pragmatics of Obama's campaign.

[dkf]

28. But they have made it personal to them.

They love this discussion because it allows them to gripe about their own personal circumstances, nice and cushy as they are.

[Drachasor]

33. No doubt. And it plays to their knowledge about courting that group

...because that's one of the few groups Republicans go after.

I'm just saying they have a point, even if it is mired in their self-involvement and petty politics.

[dkf]

38. Their sympathy is limited to people most like them.

That is divisive, and weird because they expect other people to not be divisive even when those others get treated badly.

I would say that Joe and Pat haven't experienced direct bad consequences due to who they were born as. I mean its not like they were ever outsourced out of a job, or passed over for the non-white person or had to bus their kids across town.

[Drachasor]

40. They are people with deep flaws (and I agree on the flaws you state)

The worst part about their flaws is their inability to see them. That makes it hard to change.

[EffieBlack]

29. I don't agree

There are several groups that Obama, or any candidate needs to attract to win in most states and in most of those states, any one of those groups can make or break a candidate. But for some reason, white male blue collar voters are seen as the "pivotal" group, as if their votes are more important than any other.

It's interesting that black voters are never treated that way - when candidates do chase after our votes, they're accused of pandering. When we swing our votes one way or the other, we're accused of "racial bloc voting." Yet, we have to sit and watch the likes of Scarborough and Buchanan blather on and on about how white male voters aren't going to vote for the black guy because of x, y and z.

Can you imagine if a bunch of black commentators hit the airwaves (ok, that by itself is hard to imagine . . ., but play along with me here) and, day after day after day obsessed over whether Hillary or Barack had said the right thing that day that would attract or repel black voters?

Just last week, Scarborough warned the Democrats that they were making a big mistake in "catering" to black voters by criticizing Ferraro because this criticism would drive white women away. Excuse me? It's fine to piss off black voters, as long as we keep white women happy?

Talk about throwing someone under the bus!

[Drachasor]

32. I'm not defending them in their entirety

And Obama already has a lock on the black vote, whereas blue collar whites is a group he has had a good deal of trouble with. (That singular point is about the extent of my willingness to defend them). (You could say the same thing about the white women vote, but that has stronger ties to Hillary, in all likelihood).

[chieftain]

45. But it is telling that they refused to analyze the part of the speech

talking about White resentment. GOP Joe and Pat are working hard to elect McCain. That's their mission.
I agree with your point on the pragmatics of Obama's campaign. This speech was a good first step in setting a strategic context for the continuing discussion of Obama' s race and his spiritual mentor's politically unacceptable remarks. I believe he has to more forcefully address the real fears of working class Democrats. They need to understand that he does understand their concerns and will work effectively to advance their interests. I believe his success in the GE will hinge on his ability to retain traditional Democratic votes while adding Independents, youth and increasing Black turnout. It will not be easy, but I believe he is up to the challenge. Yesterday's speech gives me even more confidence that he can take the WH back from the thugs, crooks and fools who now occupy it.

[dkf]

25. Being neither black nor white gives me a pretty neutral vantage point

and I am feeling appalled by these two guys right now.

They are doing white males no favors.

It is strange because I thought this discussion would stimulate appreciation of where the other side comes from, but it only aggravated their own bad feelings.

[EffieBlack]

30. Exactly

And they're projecting their own biases and fears onto an entire demographic, assuming that white men are just as frightened and bigoted as they are.

[Drachasor]

35. To be fair, those two are people that would never vote for Obama

So it isn't entirely surprising they didn't get his speech. I just hope that the blue collar whites they talk about do get it.

[godai]

42. Unfortunately, they are preaching to the blue collar whites...

telling them what they think of the speech including nonsense that black supervisors watch TV all day to the frustration of their white employees. This filter of Republican opinion won't help Obama gain any voters.

[cooolandrew]

27. All wright is, is an angry liberal and overthe years we've found lots to beangry about.

[EffieBlack]

39. No he's an angry black man

that's all that matters to many of these people, regardless of what he's angry about or that he's angry about many of the same things that they are upset about.

He's just an angry - read SCARY - black man.

[Evergreen Emerald]

31. The system is messed up.

And blacks are pitting themselves against whites. And whites are also working two jobs and loosing health care and wondering where the hell they are going to get money to feed their kids. And the black one is blaming the white one. Wright is divisive and it is ugly.

And Obama lied. He first said he had never heard wright say those things. Now he finally admitted it. He lied.

[dkf]

34. Wright said a lot of stuff and Obama probably was talking about a specific GD America or

something or other when he said he wasn't at that sermon.

You are too blanket in your condemnation of Obama as a liar. You need to examine your ability to judge this fairly.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

36. The media ofcourse is stirring race to get rid of Obama

the media doesn't care one way or another, it has to say the popular things to make money. The GOP and their Hillary have large shovels ready.

[BklynChick]

41. I've always hated PB but Joe has seemed reasonable to me (at times) but not lately. I guess he's

scared that Obama might actually win this. Will never watch his show again, even to see how "the other side" sees things.

[chieftain]

44. Tucker says that Blacks should get over the fact that they

had been mean to by some Whites. That is spectacularly stupid and ignorant even for bowtie boy. Reducing slavery, segregation, lynching, denial of fundamental rights to what sounds like a child's complaint about a sibling's treatment is beyond reprehensible but totally consistent with the world view of the likes of Carlson, Scarborough and Buchanan.

[GoldenOldie]

46. Anyone really believe these fat-cat white boys give a damn????

Bow-tied Tucker, who never had to climb a ladder to get to his position.
Pat Buchanan, whose bio includes, speech writer for a past President, then remained on in DC cocktail crowd, and now plays the role of all knowing political, cultural, pundit.
Joe Scarborough, one-time, elected Rep, who rode into office on the grand "Contract with America," ploy of one Newt Gingrich. Now another DC player unable to return to his hometown, because he as the others, are addicted to the DC power cocktails.

Does anyone believe that these white boys and their counterparts Hannity, O'Reilly, Limbaughs, etc., give a damn about what happens to "the blue collar," workers???? As long as they are given control of the Mic's, they will apply whatever vitriol is needed to keep us fighting one another while fan the fires and continue lining their pockets.

[chieftain]

47. Their pretense of concern for the "factory workers" in Youngstown

is both cynical and laughable.

[mzmolly]

48. Sorry, their only concern is for the wealthy. They don't give a shit about blue collar

workers.

[fadedrose]

49. I read Joe and Pat the same way as you nt