Yes, Obama gave a great speech BUT

[Saturday]

he didn't explain why he sat in the pews for 20 years and listened to hate speech. Yes, he explained why after 20 years he felt loyalty to Wright. We understand that BUT what happened the first time he heard Wright preach hate speech? Was that in year 20 or did it happen in year 1, 2 or 3. Why didn't he get up and walk out at that time?

Also, I do not for 1 minute believe BO when he says he never heard Wright hate speak in his private conversations with him. Common sense tells me you speak hate speech in private before you go out to speak it on the pulpit.

And why, oh why, did BO not use his "good judgement" to NOT put Wright on his advisory committee?

[Evergreen Emerald]

1. There are several problems for me with what Obama said.

The first is that he lied about it originally, suggesting that he had not heard offensive things out of the Reverend.

And of course your point: which makes me believe he is not the person he pretends to be. Rezko, the crying "Racism!" in SC.

He has proven to me that his actions speak louder than his words.

We must be careful with him. Because when he speaks he mesmerizes. That is his forte. So, he can lie in an interview, and then give a speech and everyone swoons, forgetting his actions.

[scheming daemons]

13. "he lied about it originally, suggesting that he had not heard offensive things out of the Reverend"

No... he didn't.

Quit lying about this.


He said... in his interviews on Friday.... that he had heard some controversial things, but nothing like the things that were being played in 5 or 6 slips over and over.

He specifically said that he had not heard THESE PARTICULAR sermons... not that he had never heard ANY controversial sermons.


Tell the truth. Read the transcripts. Quit lying.

[Evergreen Emerald]

19. come on. Give him the same scrutiny you give Clinton

He asserted to the American people, that he had no knowledge the Reverand was so divisive and hate filled. He was playing dumb to win an election (lying).

Now, you can pretend that is not what he was saying as you carefully parse his words. But, I hope you give the same benefit of the doubt to Clinton.

And, of course don't forget the lies he told about Rezko and the Canadian incident. He has lied to us at least three times now when confronted with issues.

[GarbagemanLB]

32. No. There were 3 quotes on that endless loop played in the media. He was clear he never heard those.

[jasmine621]

33. On this, he didn't "get it right the first time." nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

35. Yes!

He's MAGIC!

You're pathetic.

[40ozDonkey]

2. Go ahead and show the legislation Obama pushed that reflects Wrights views.

If you're trying to push that he was influenced by Jeremiah Wright, the onus of responsibility is on YOU to show how.

Here's your chance.

Go for it.

[olkaz]

3. Waiting for Godot

Going to be a while. Might want to pull up a chair.

[Saturday]

16. I never accused BO of pushing legislation, red herring. nt

[Demeter]

4. Hate Speech?

That's a funny way of labelling a discussion on the need for reform and the underlying injustice.

[Sadie4629]

8. Words are powerful

"God DAMN America" is a powerful statement, and certainly sounds hateful to lots of people.

[RaleighNCDUer]

36. As an atheist "God Bless America" is no less hateful to me.

You are reading into it something that was not said - by completely ignoring the context.

(Not an exact quote)
"IF America has done these terrible things, we should not be saying god bless america (omitted sub-text - becasue that would be blessing the terrible things) but should be instead be saying god damn america."

It's all in the CONTEXT.

And of course the context ALSO includes the setting, where the preacher was speaking to a specific audience and THEY knew the context - the hyperbole that comes with such a jeremiad.

You have to care about something to condemn it so strongly when it goes wrong.

[Saturday]

17. Do you want me to repeat Wright's words? Yes, he spoke hate speech. nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

38. What do you call "hate speech"?

Go ahead, find the quotes where he's saying -- Honkies should be lynched on sight! You should go out there and cut their head off, fuck their skulls, and shit down their necks! We've got 400 years of violence to make up for, so lets burn the mutherfuckers down!

Now THAT would be hate speech.

You will not, I guarantee it, find ANYTHING like that.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

5. Well...

he didn't explain why he sat in the pews for 20 years and listened to hate speech

Maybe because the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of the content of the sermons WAS NOT hate speech. For fuck's sake, from listening to some people here you'd think he was attending the black equivalent of Fred Phelps' church.


Also, I do not for 1 minute believe BO when he says he never heard Wright hate speak in his private conversations with him. Common sense tells me you speak hate speech in private before you go out to speak it on the pulpit.

I don't know, maybe because the charicature being pushed by people like Hannity and Rush, that he's some kind of Louis Farrakahn Jr, is incorrect.


And why, oh why, did BO not use his "good judgement" to NOT put Wright on his advisory committee?

I don't know - maybe because he's telling the truth about not having heard him say the things that have been broadcast on the youtube videos? Maybe?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

6. (Psst! It's a hillarian. Truth & facts don't work in their universe. you are

wasting your time.)

[Saturday]

18. Here are my answers....

"Maybe because the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of the content of the sermons WAS NOT hate speech. For fuck's sake, from listening to some people here you'd think he was attending the black equivalent of Fred Phelps' church."

Do you know that for sure or is that your opinion because you support BO? A track record is a track record. Common sense tells me this angry man (Wright) was not silent the first 19 years and just started hate speech in year 20.

" I don't know - maybe because he's telling the truth about not having heard him say the things that have been broadcast on the youtube videos? Maybe?"

He knew enough about Wright to distance himself from having Wright give the prayer in Springfield for his campaign beginning. That was the same time he put him on his advisory committee.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

28. Well...

Do you know that for sure or is that your opinion because you support BO?

I've listened to some of the sermons in full, since I was curious as to what the wingnuts were on about. By and large the sermons were benign. Again, we're not talking about Fred Phelps here. And I'm getting pretty sick of people like you pushing this right-wing smear. This has very little to do with my rather lukewarm support for Obama. I think the idiots trying to smear Hillary because of her religious affiliations are just as repulsive. But then again the right-wing smear merchants aren't peddling that story, and that's where DU seems to get most of its material these days.

[casus belli]

7. So, you didn't watch the speech is what you're saying.

Because he actually did explain that...quite thoroughly.

[Saturday]

20. I did listen to it. He told me why he was loyal to Wright AFTER

20 years. He did not tell me why he was loyal to Wright in year 1, 2, and 3.

[dkf]

9. Churches have been railing against GLBTs for longer than that.

Are you saying no one should go to church?

[Saturday]

21. No, I'm saying someone who touts "good judgement" should use it.nt

[blogslut]

10. So, Wright gave sermons like the ones you've been glomming on to for 20 years solid?

Prove it

[Saturday]

22. He was an angry man only in the 20th year? Sorry, don't believe it.nt

[scheming daemons]

11. Some answers to your questions....

"he didn't explain why he sat in the pews for 20 years and listened to hate speech. Yes, he explained why after 20 years he felt loyalty to Wright. We understand that BUT what happened the first time he heard Wright preach hate speech? Was that in year 20 or did it happen in year 1, 2 or 3. Why didn't he get up and walk out at that time?"

The earliest clip we have seen of Wright making this kind of sermon was Sept 16, 2001. The MSM has shown NO clips that are earlier than that.

That could mean that Obama was a member of that church for 13 years before Wright started spouting off like this.... or it could mean he's done it all along. We just don't know.

If Wright did *NOT* talk like that for the first decade or so that Obama was a member of the church, then isn't it reasonable to think that Obama had set down so much roots in the church that it is difficult to just leave?

Also, I do not for 1 minute believe BO when he says he never heard Wright hate speak in his private conversations with him. Common sense tells me you speak hate speech in private before you go out to speak it on the pulpit.

The persona a preacher takes on when they're at the pulpit is often VERY different from their private persona. I don't know if that is the case here, but neither do you.

And why, oh why, did BO not use his "good judgement" to NOT put Wright on his advisory committee?

Perhaps because Obama is telling the truth when he says he never heard the worst of Wright .... the clips from 5 or 6 sermons that we've all seen over and over. Maybe he only saw the mildly controversial ones...the ones we are NOT seeing in endless loops. Those wouldn't be enough to throw a good friend off his faith committee.

Perhaps if Obama knew about the "God Damn America" sermon, he wouldn't have.

[Saturday]

25. Answers ....

"If Wright did *NOT* talk like that for the first decade or so that Obama was a member of the church, then isn't it reasonable to think that Obama had set down so much roots in the church that it is difficult to just leave?"

BO contends Wright is angry from the 60's. He hid that anger for 20 years and then all of a sudden blurted it out in the 10th year? Sorry, not believable. Not even logical.

"The persona a preacher takes on when they're at the pulpit is often VERY different from their private persona. I don't know if that is the case here, but neither do you."

What? It's different? I don't think so.

"Those wouldn't be enough to throw a good friend off his faith committee."

Obama already had doubts about Wright when he did not let him say the prayer in Springfield when he announced his campaign but he didn't know not to put him on the committee?

All of your arguements ask me to throw my logic out. All of your arguements ask me to just believe. I can't do that.

[NJmaverick]

12. I guess you failed to understand his message

The subtly of his message appears to have been completely lost on you. The reality is that his sermon was shocking to WHITE listeners who for the most part have never attended a black church before. Obama did a good job explaining that, to those that took the time and effort to think. It appears you were not among that number.


I guess you are one of those that also condemns every Catholic that didn't leave the church after the wide spread child abuse and cover up came to light, or is your standards higher for blacks?

[Saturday]

26. Your condescending remarks to me don't deserve a reply. nt

[kwassa]

37. You just did an excellent job of ducking his point.

This reveals the insincerity of your OP.

[NJmaverick]

39. His "opinion" is nothing more than political talking points

[kwassa]

40. Nice try. You ducked the question as well.

[indimuse]

14. good ???'s

k&r!!!

[patrice]

15. Yes, he should shop for his church like others do.

Any knowledgeable consumer knows a good church never says anything that troubles your conscience or makes you evaluate how we are living, never makes you ask questions, never anything that is difficult or uncomfortable.

A good church gives you lots of rewards (candy for the sunday school kids, prizes for this or that club, trips here and there), lots of rewards so you can believe in Jesus. A good church should feel like a comfortable pair of shoes or pleasing food. It should reinforce whatever patriotic meme is being sold and inspire its members to conform their lives to "the ends justifies the means", so they will go kill in the name of _____________________.

[zulchzulu]

23. Actually, it's apparent you didn't listen to the speech

The answer is there. I'm not going to point it out. Do your homework.

[Saturday]

27. Your condesending remarks don't deserve a reply. nt

[ElsewheresDaughter]

24. and that's the bottomline

[Pacifist Patriot]

29. I highly recommend the books of Anthony Pinn...

as well as Sharon Welch's "A Feminist Ethic of Risk." Pinn is an African-American theologian with some excellent insights on black religion in America.

In my own opinion, "hate speech" is a rather misleading phrase to use here because of it's association with such things as the anti-gay rhetoric of the christian right and the racism of facists.

As members of the oppressor group, it is entirely too easy to dismiss such anger as hate speech when in fact it comes from a perspective of oppression. Wright's is a prophetic voice in our times and as we all know, the prophet is rarely welcome in his own home.

Wright's "hate speech" is particularly jarring because he is correct and white America doesn't want to hear it. It shakes us out of our cynicism and complacency. We like to believe the Civil Rights movement, affirmative action, etc. solved our racial woes in this country. Far from it! Racism is thoroughly institutionalized and therefore virtually invisible to most of us who look for it at the personalized level.

Perhaps Obama has never heard him use "hate speech" because that is not how Obama would view Wright's comments. I've read some of his sermons. He is powerful and he is angry. But I can't see where he is wrong.

[Chalco]

30. and from an article by Naomi Klein

in which she questions whether BO is truly an agent of change. When incorrectly called a Muslim, his response has been that he is not a Muslim, he's a Christian. Fair enough, however, to give proof that he was an agent of change he would do something else.

"As the most visible target of this rising racism, Obama has the power to be more than its victim. He can use the attacks to begin the very process of global repair that is the most seductive promise of his campaign. The next time he's asked about his alleged Muslimness, Obama can respond not just by clarifying the facts but by turning the tables. He can state clearly that while a liaison with a pharmaceutical lobbyist may be worthy of scandalized exposure, being a Muslim is not. Changing the terms of the debate this way is not only morally just but tactically smart--it's the one response that could defuse these hateful attacks. The best part is this: unlike ending the Iraq War and closing Guantánamo, standing up to Islamophobia doesn't need to wait until after the election. Obama can use his campaign to start now. Let the repairing begin."

He would say something like, "In the United States of America we have freedom of religion. Therefore, even if I was Muslim, it should be tolerated."

[canuk1]

31. YOU ARE AN IDIOT AND SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO VOTE

Last night I heard on MSNBC that the average joe wouldn't be able to understand Obama's speech. I found that insulting because his speech was vary easy to understand. His message was obvious to anyone with a basic education. It was a great speech which spoke the truth about all of us. We all have a grandmother, uncle, etc..who have used the n..word or some other language etc... But we do not walk away from them. Hillary Clinto's father was a conservative republican from Chicago who grew up during a time when Blacks had no rights. Do you think her father ever said the N..word. You can almost bank on it. Most whites did back then. Why doesn't the press ask her that?

I was wrong. The MSM is right. There are stupid people who are allowed to vote. The person who started this thread is one of them. Please do not vote anymore for the sake of all of us.

[yodermon]

34. First, "Hate speech" is a subjective term in this context. You employ it as fact.

You latch on to the term and use it as a rhetorical bludgeon. Is there a contest amongst Hillary supports to see how many times you can use "hate speech" and "obama" in the same post?

Secondly, this talking point will not fly with the general public. The average church-going American bridles at the concept of being held accountable for what their preachers say. Average church-going Americans disagree with their preachers all the time. The media (and some Hillary supporters) are beating this issue to *death*, and the public will grow weary of it very quickly, especially in light of Obama's speech.

I don't know what the oldest recording of Wright's sermons is available, but I'm sure all the massive amounts of "hate speech" contained in 20 years of them will soon be sound-bite'd for your consumption. Stay tuned.