Who started George W. Bush's War on Iraq?

[MethuenProgressive]

Pop quiz in honor of the 5th anniversary of George W. Bush's violent violation of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

1. Bush Of Course. But Some Will Fuck With Your Poll Anyway.

[MethuenProgressive]

24. Yup. 9 revisionists already.

You'd like to think DU members knew more about government and recent history than that.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

72. Im curious

Which branch of the government has the power to declare war?

[proud2BlibKansan]

76. MTE!

I just posted that. LOL

[baldguy]

2. Hil knew the IWR was a pack of lies, but she voted for it anyway.

[rodeodance]

3. This is Bush's war. Hillary did NOT vote to take us to war.

[baldguy]

5. The vote was for a war.

No honest person seriously believed that Bush was looking to negotiate with Saddam. Bush was looking to kill Saddam, occupy his country & steal his oil. EVERYONE KNEW THIS.

[MethuenProgressive]

46. You want others to believe the bill was called "Yippee!! War!!"?

And had no content? Why would you want to do that?

[baldguy]

64. The context was that Saddam was complying with the UN resolutions.

The context was that he had released 350,000 documents relating to Iraq's WMD programs and the destruction thereof.

The context was that he had allowed the UN weapons inspectors in and they were on the ground in the process of NOT FINDING ANYTHING when Bush started bombing.

The context was that the sum total of active Iraqi weapons programs at the time of the invasion consisted of one loose leaf notebook page containing a free hand drawing of a rocket nozzle.

The context was no human being with half a brain had any reason to believe anything Bush had to say on the matter. The IWR resolution might as well have been called "Yippee!! War!!". It would have been more truthful

[MethuenProgressive]

4. I like your Jimmy Carter quote, Here's Hillary's quote from her floor speech on IWR:

"A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort."
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=233783

[Tesha]

16. So she's either painfully stupid or a liar. (NT)

[MethuenProgressive]

17. That's what the haters want you think.

Facts, of course, show otherwise.

[Tesha]

22. No, the facts show exactly what I suggested.

Here at DU, we *ALL* knew that Bush was lying his ass off
to get us into war.

Worldwide, millions of anti-war marchers *ALL* knew that
Bush was lying his ass off to get the United States into
war. Heck, even here in the United States, hundreds of
thousands of protesters knew.

But Hillary didn't know?

I'm sorry, but you will *NEVER* be able to produce
"facts" to convince me of that.

Tesha

[Political Heretic]

27. "last resort" defined in the resolution as: whatever the president says it is.

The AUTHORIZATION gave the president full power, without any further need to consult congress prior to acting, to decide when, where and how diplomacy had "failed" and strike whenever he saw fit.

[Political Heretic]

36. .

[blogslut]

32. And here's another quote from her speech

I will take the President at his word that he will try hard to pass a UN resolution and will seek to avoid war, if at all possible.

[baldguy]

40. I wouldn't take Bush's word that the Pope is Catholic.

[workinclasszero]

75. Yeah, I wouldn't take Bush's word that the sky is blue

But the Senator from New York took Bush's word that he just wanted to talk with his good buddy Saddam???

LOL!

That makes Hillary a liar or a fool! Take your pick Hillbots!:evilgrin:

[JuniperLea]

51. Exactly...

Just like the soldiers who volunteered for service, we didn't expect Bush to put people in harm's way over nothing. I still can't believe he actually did this... based on lies... and no one said anything... not at the time, and nothing very helpful since.

[maximusveritas]

6. These strawmen do not erase Hillary's responsibility

in voting for the IWR. Nice try though.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

7. Bush and appx. 380 members of Congress.

[MethuenProgressive]

8. 78% of DUers say it was George W. Bush!

Honest people, these DUers!

[SammyWinstonJack]

9. Is this a trick question?

:evilgrin: Who really believes that Hillary started the war? Honestly? :spank:

[MethuenProgressive]

13. Well...

...reading GD-P evidently quite few Obama supporters, and the half dozen who voted that way in this poll.
Sad, isn't it?

[bobbert]

10. .

Wasn't it Hillary's speech that convinced a lot of Democrats to vote for the IWR?

[MethuenProgressive]

11. Welcome to DU. Here's a quote from that speech you might want to read:

Today we are asked whether to give the President of the United States authority to use force in Iraq should diplomatic efforts fail to dismantle Saddam Hussein's chemical and biological weapons and his nuclear program.

I am honored to represent nearly 19 million New Yorkers, a thoughtful democracy of voices and opinions who make themselves heard on the great issues of our day especially this one. Many have contacted my office about this resolution, both in support of and in opposition to it, and I am grateful to all who have expressed an opinion.

I also greatly respect the differing opinions within this body. The debate they engender will aid our search for a wise, effective policy. Therefore, on no account should dissent be discouraged or disparaged. It is central to our freedom and to our progress, for on more than one occasion, history has proven our great dissenters to be right.

Now, I believe the facts that have brought us to this fateful vote are not in doubt. Saddam Hussein is a tyrant who has tortured and killed his own people, even his own family members, to maintain his iron grip on power. He used chemical weapons on Iraqi Kurds and on Iranians, killing over 20 thousand people. Unfortunately, during the 1980's, while he engaged in such horrific activity, he enjoyed the support of the American government, because he had oil and was seen as a counterweight to the Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran.


A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort.

http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=233783

[XemaSab]

12. Both

n/t

[rucky]

14. Bush: With or without Congress.

And sadly, it was with.

[Tesha]

15. George H. W. Bush, sort-of. The British, long, long before that.

George H. W. Bush, sort-of. The British, long, long before
that when they created an artificial country called "Iraq".

Bill Clinton, with the sanctions and the no-fly zones,
kept the war going as a cold war, killing off somewhere
between 100,000 and 500,000 Iraqi Children through
starvation, disease, etc.. And George W. Bush, aided
and abetted by a bunch of cowardly, politically-
opportunist Democrats (*CERTAINLY INCLUDING* Hillary
Clinton), brought hot war back to the region.

And it ain't over yet.

Tesha

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

73. HW did not kill those kids

Iraq had enough income to treat its people but Hussain the *leader* of that nation built palaces instead of feeding kids.

We have enough guilt in our history, we dont need the guilt of others being piled up on us..

[TahitiNut]

18. What is it about "Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq" that's not clear?

The Constitution vests the AUTHORITY in Congress. Period.

There's no question that Cheney/Bush have violated a "trust" and engaged in high crimes and misdemeanors. The Congress has been complicit and EVERY congresscritter voting to AUTHORIZE MILITARY FORCE (i.e. WAR!) is complicit. Every. Single. One.

I reject the validity and integrity in George W. Bush's "signing statements" just as I do the "signing statements" of congresscritters attempting to portray their acts as OTHER than they are.

[MethuenProgressive]

21. Tahiti, there were a whole buncha words after the title.

Bush violated the conditions of the resolution.
But you knew that.

[TahitiNut]

23. UNLESS and UNTIL he's prosecuted by Congress for such a violation ...

... then Congress is saying no violation.

Remember, Clinton is the candidate claiming the "actions speak louder than words" ... and SHE'S spouting WORDS to cover her ACTION (voting) and INACTION (failure to prosecute Cheney/Bush).

The hypocrisy is nauseating.

[MethuenProgressive]

25. "The hypocrisy is nauseating."

It certainly is.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MethuenProgressive]

31. self delete

contained content from a removed post

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blogslut]

19. slanty slanty

If you add Barack Obama to the poll, he would get zero votes. See how that works?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. She didn't know he was going to really go to war. aka - the Good German defense.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MethuenProgressive]

30. self delete

contained content from a removed post

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Exilednight]

29. Bush started it, but Hillary was his enabler. It's codependency.

[MethuenProgressive]

35. 14! 14 Obama followers think Hillary started George W. Bush's War on Iraq!

Wow. Can we have your names, please?

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

77. I did not vote because I blame them both..

Bush has the intellect of a 12yo... Hillary handed that 12yo a gun and is trying to blame him for how he used it...

When you have the authority to declare was you have the responsibility to make unpopular decisions. Hillary took the easy road at a time when most Americans wanted the war

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MethuenProgressive]

39. You'd think the Obama followers would know it was Bush, wouldn't you?

Their hatred has clouded their judgement.

[RYOMYO]

54. Hahaha!

Now that's funny!

[MethuenProgressive]

66. 5 years on, almost 4000 American troops dead, and people want to use the war to score

cheap political points on an Internet board.
Shame.

[Political Heretic]

41. Let me try to state this as gently as I possibly can:

The original post contains information that is blatantly and completely inaccurate. Not shades or grey. Not open to interpretation. Just completely contrary to factual reality.

"George W. Bush's violent violation of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution."

There was no violation. Read here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5157251&mesg_id=5157251

Now... alert that.

[MethuenProgressive]

42. Congratulations to the 74% of DUers who know fact from fiction!

Way to go, DU! :applause:

[Texas Hill Country]

43. Stupid Flamebait.

IGNORE.

[SoonerPride]

44. I know 100% who WASN'T RESPONSIBLE

The culpability of the others involved who voted for and acted on the ridiculous IWR are all equally at fault.

Bush.
McCain.
Clinton

But we know for sure the name of the person in the race who has no blood on his hands at all:

Obama.

[MethuenProgressive]

45. one small speech at one small rally and then voting with Clinton on every Iraq bill

Wow. That's almost Gandhi-ish.

[SoonerPride]

47. Sorry if you don't like my answer.

Clinton and Bush and McCain are death peddlers.

[stillcool]

48. You can't have one without the other...

[Splinter Cell]

49. Answer me this...

If the monkey gets out of the cage, and makes a mess, who's fault is it? The monkey? Or the zookeeper?

[MethuenProgressive]

55. Answer me this:

If you pass a law*, and someone breaks that law**, why is the crime*** the lawmaker's fault?

*IRW
**GWB
***Violating conditions of the resolution to start a war

You clean up after that monkey, y'hear?

[Political Heretic]

62. Of course, that didn't happen

You are once again restating something that is factually untrue.

And all one has to do is read the resolution to prove it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5157251&mesg_id=5157251

[MethuenProgressive]

69. No answer?

Or don't like the answer?

[Recursion]

50. It's stupid to say she "started it". It's also stupid to say she is not responsible

...or to disgustingly try to say that it was a vote to "prevent war".

[MethuenProgressive]

52. 18!! 18 Obama followers think Hillary started George W. Bush's War on Iraq!

edit to change 16 to 18
(the school buses must've finished dropping off the kids)

[Forkboy]

53. Bush, with the aid of too many fucking Dems.

[MethuenProgressive]

57. What f-----g Dem told Bush to violate the conditions of the resolution?

Names?

[Forkboy]

60. None, specifically, but anyone who didn't know he wouldn't was a blind idiot.

Don't even try this tactic on me because you're wasting your time in a colossal way. I've give NO ONE a pass on this, Dem, Repuke...no one. That and the Patriot Act were two of the deadliest and cowardly votes this nation has seen.

Seriously...save it.

[Political Heretic]

63. You are once again repeating something that is factually untrue.

All one has to do is read the resolution to prove it untrue.

Bush did not violate the conditions of the resolution.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5157251&mesg_id=5157251

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

79. They abdicated their constitutional responsability by

even making the situation possible! Sorry but if she would make the easy political decision then despite the base of the progressive movement *screaming* 'no, no, no!' why would she treat them any different were she to become president?

[11 Bravo]

56. OK, 18 out of 117,280 say Hillary started the war.

By my calculations, that's less than 0.02 of one percent of DUers who are bugfuck stupid. Compared to the general population, we don't look too bad.

[lojasmo]

58. Not voting because it's a stupid poll, but...

Congress authorized it. Their mistake is now our problem.

[Johnny__Motown]

59. Everyone who voted for it had a hand in it

[metalluk]

61. The ignorant masses

who bought into Bush's lame arguments and false evidence and failed to exercise their responsibilities as citizens.

[MethuenProgressive]

65. Nineteen Obama followers think Hillary started George W. Bush's War on Iraq!

Makes one wonder just how underinformed one needs to be to be an Obama follower.

[samrock]

67. To those voting that Hillary started this war..

Soo you are saying IF Hillary had voted no the war would not have started???? Really????

[MethuenProgressive]

68. Shhh! That's "logic"! (DUbamas hate "logic")

[workinclasszero]

70. Bush but he couldn't have done it without Hillary's vote

Hillary can run but she cannot hide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSu0zXCR9sE

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

71. It was Bush using Hillaries terrible judgement..

But the fact Bush could *fool* Clinton when the base of her party was screaming *NO* goes to show her judgment cant be trusted..

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. Who is authorized to declare war?

The president or Congress?

[rug]

78. When was war declared?

[proud2BlibKansan]

80. The minute bombs were dropped

Nice try.

[rug]

81. Who ordered the bomb drop?

[proud2BlibKansan]

83. With whose approval was that drop ordered?

[rug]

84. The vote was authorization if necessary, not approval.

And an invasion by the executive does not constitute a constitutional declaration of war.

[mmonk]

82. How did he violate the authorization?

[MethuenProgressive]

85. Without Hillary's vote, Bush would've violated the IWR and started his war?

Revisionism has new friends in Obamaniks.

[mmonk]

86. First of all that's not my name.

Second, the authorization of force was an abdication of war powers duty by the congress to the executive branch (the same crap that gave us Vietnam).

[sudopod]

87. A false dichotomy in my DU?

It's more likely than you think!