Congratulations to Camp Obama. You just turned Michigan into a "Battleground State."

[Tyler Durden]

Unbelievable. You cut of the your nose to spite the party's face.

All arguments you could raise don't trump what you just handed the other side: MILLIONS in free publicity.

IF Obama is nominated, he will be nominated without the state that has the most need in the entire nation right now, and I include Louisiana. That was not very smart.

NOW, McCain can show up, promising the moon and stars to all those out of work Auto employees, and tell them all about how Barack Obama didn't want their votes anyway, why, look what he did to your PRIMARY.

Does it matter whether this is bullshit or not? No.
Does it matter whether HRC would have won here or not? No.
Does it matter what hay the GOP can make out of this in November. Yep.

Michigan is one HELL of a lot more Purple than Blue. Always has been.
Who won here in 1972? Nixon.
Who won here in 1976? Ford.
Who won here in 1980? Reagan.
Who won here in 1984? Reagan.
Who won here in 1988? Bush I.

In fact, from Humphrey to Clinton (I repeat, CLINTON), a Democrat has not won the state of Michigan in the Presidential election.

Now, with a split legislature, and REPUBLICANS supporting a redo of the Democratic Party Primary IF and ONLY IF the Democratic Party Candidates will AGREE to it, Camp Obama torpedoes the redo.

HEY, GOOD GOIN' CAMP OBAMA! He wasn't real POPULAR here anyway, what with some of the electorate thinking he was a MUSLIM and other bullshit, but hey, why not REALLY handicap him, and let the GOP tell the whole state that you didn't want their votes in the first place? You're going to need every state you can get (seeing that your chances of taking Southern and Western states is, well, to be realistic, pretty low), so what does your delegation to the State negotiating committee do? They block the redo.

Genius. Simply GENIUS.

You can talk all day long about how GOOD he is, or how SMART he is, or how FAIR he is, or how it was WRONG to want to redo the primary an here, here, here is why...

Do you REALLY think any of the working poor of Michigan will BUY that? EVEN IF IT'S TRUE??

Beautiful.

You know this isn't an ANTI-OBAMA post: it's a PRO-DEMOCRATIC VICTORY IN NOVEMBER post. You likely would have taken the nomination anyway, so this was not exactly a deal breaker as far as the primary goes...so why oppose it? Wasn't the party splintered ENOUGH?

Well, you'll still have my vote in the fall if he's the Candidate, but I can't say much for the political savvy of the Obama Campaign.

[Larkspur]

1. Not Obama's fault

It's the fault of the MI elected leaders who broke the DNC rules.

[LSparkle]

4. Correct! Who's to say it's OBAMA's camp that's being stubborn?

Could be that HRC is too intractable about HER demands/what SHE'll accept to
resolve this problem. State and federal Democratic Parties are also involved
so since when is all this Obama's fault? Just because he wouldn't compromise
his principles and CAVE to people who want to break the rules????

Character counts -- your word is your bond. Don't cheat; don't change the rules.

[LulaMay]

9. He's the one talking about legal action to stop a revote.

[LSparkle]

97. IF a revote disenfranchises Dems who voted Repug because

they were told THEIR VOTES WOULDN'T COUNT on the Democratic side!

HRC doesn't mind benefiting from the Repugs who voted for her in Texas
at the suggestion of Limpbags but now wants to keep Dems who did the
same thing in MI (e.g., voting for Romney since THEY WERE TOLD THEIR
VOTES WOULDN'T COUNT ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE) from re-voting. I agree
with Obama -- that's an unfair rule and I'd go to court to prevent
that.

[jackson_dem]

106. I thought the Obama machine meme/lie was rethugs are voting in droves for Hillary?

Now he wanted rethugs to vote to bail him out in Michigan?

[LSparkle]

113. No, he wants Democrats who previously voted Repug to get to re-vote

This has nothing to do with Repugs in MI being able to re-vote.

[dragonlady]

136. I don't understand that to be what his lawyer is saying

Here's a link to the memo released by Obama's lawyer, a recognized expert in election law. It's very long, so it would be best for everyone to read it, but I don't see where he says they would file a suit. He is just pointing out the many possible challenges that could be brought by either campaign or other parties on behalf of voters disenfranchised by the plan. This is what a legal memo is--an analysis of how the laws apply to a particular situation. The possible challenges include disenfranchisement of voters in the Republican primary, need for pre-clearance under the Voting Rights Act (which may come too late), disenfranchisement of military and other overseas voters, litigation over breakdowns in the voting process due to strain on the clerks, and the legitimacy under the campaign finance laws of soliciting soft money to pay for the election. This is not a simple issue of what we may think seems fair, but also involves many intertwined laws enacted to safeguard our election process.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/19/783219.aspx

[rodeodance]

46. It is too his fault--HRC is there meeting the voters. while BO dwaddles.

[chimpymustgo]

6. So let's work to solve the problem. What is Dean proposing at this point?

[Tyler Durden]

19. I don't know.

But it better be good.

[Tyler Durden]

11. You know, you can say that all day long.

Do you know what a "Pyrrhic Victory" is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory

Do you think for one second that the voters in Michigan CARE who broke what rules?

And how much good do you think it will do to link the Michigan Democratic Party with this debacle? Do you think it will do Obama any GOOD?

If you are smart enough, all of these questions are rhetorical and you should already know the answers. A hint? They aren't good.

[Larkspur]

85. Are MI voters sheep?

What about the MI and FL voters who did not vote on primary day because they were told their vote would not count. MI and FL elected officials want to disenfranchise those voters.

Anyway the only votes that won't count are the primary votes. MI and FL can move up the general election date, so their GE votes will count.

[McCamy Taylor]

33. Yes, it is. He should not have dropped off the ballot to try to look good in Iowa.

He and the others who dropped off the Michigan ballot at the last minute did so in an attempt to upstage Hillary in Iowa. They knew that Iowa was pissed at Mi and they figured if they got off, it would make them look better than Hillary. Hillary and Dodd stayed on in Mi, because they did not want to turn Mi against the Democrats. If you can not trust Hillary, at least trust Dodd. He always knew he would never win. He just does the right thing.

Obama, Edwards, Richardson, Biden were willing to snub Mi to score points in Iowa. Michigan has always known this and it has them hopping mad. The only way to make it up to them is a re-vote. Which Obama won't do now, because he knows that he disrespected them and he is afraid of voter payback.

[redqueen]

38. Couldn't be that they took the word "participate" seriously, could it? (nt)

[Tyler Durden]

45. Then why stay on in Florida? But this is all moot now.

How about some constructive suggestions?

[redqueen]

54. You really haven't followed this issue...

FL election laws are much weirder about taking names off the ballot. That's why that sex-scandal guy couldn't get HIS name off the ballot, and FL pukes had to vote for him anyway, in order to elect his replacement.

[Larkspur]

Edwards challenged Obama to take his name off the MI ballot

MI and FL screwed their own people because they thought that they could decide the primary before Feb. 5 and they thought that the DNC would not penalize them for intentionally breaking the rules.

Thank Goddess for Howard Dean.

[ficus1]

126. MI and FL will be seated at the convention

Because the race will be over before then. Crisis averted.

[Fox Mulder]

141. Exactly.

[KittyWampus]

2. #1.Michigan's Dem party did this #2. Stop regurgitating Hillary's sick/fucked up spin

[Mags]

3. of course not, he's a saint.

[Tyler Durden]

15. Oh dry up.

This has NOTHING to do with Clinton.

If Obama was going to win the nomination, he would likely have done it with or without Michigan. What matters is the negative PUBLICITY.

You cannot be that dense.

[KittyWampus]

20. LOL! Nice the Media gave Hillary's speech on MI vote air time. Some people voted in the GOP

column because they were told their Democratic vote wouldn't count.

That disenfranchises WAY too many people.

[Tyler Durden]

51. This is MOOT.

Personally, I consider cross-primary voting to be cheating, but hey at this point, WHO CARES??

How about some CONSTRUCTIVE SUGGESTIONS??

[Sequoia]

5. Why not...there's that Battle Creek, MI !!!

[olkaz]

7. Break a deal, face the wheel

I guess you think states can do whatever they want with their primaries, right?

And to have privately funded quickie elections when they realize their stupidity... THAT'S democracy in action.

[Tom Rinaldo]

16. The DNC is open to revote plans

They call them one of the approved options to resolving these delegate disputes.

[Tyler Durden]

21. As of Thursday at noon, it's too late.

That's the deadline.

[olkaz]

23. I'm open to it too.

But their proposal is not acceptable.

When they make it not rushed and publically funded, it should go on.

[LulaMay]

8. I agree. I'm dumbfounded. Disenfranchising voters. Brilliant. I blame Dean too.

He is Chairman. He should have done whatever he needed to to avoid this mess, in MI and FL.

Cheers to you, Tyler.

[stahbrett]

22. Blame falls squarely on the state Democrats, not Dean or Obama

Florida moved up their primary, and the DNC punished them. What does Michigan do? Move their primary up too! Brilliant idea!!!

Also, no one will be disenfranchised... all of the wailing and moaning on this is ridiculous. Here's what is likely to happen:

1) Hillary finally realizes that the superdelegates are not going to overturn the will of pledged delegates earned thus far, and suspends her campaign, conceding the nomination to Obama.

2) Obama then agrees to seat the delegates from Florida and Michigan (possibly using the same 50% penalty that the RNC meted out for moving up elections).

3) This whole story fades away, because MI and FL Democrats are penalized about the same as the Republicans were, and MI and FL get delegates.

[LulaMay]

29. Obama is the one talking legal action to stop a revote. Dean is responsible as our chairman.

[stahbrett]

48. First, as chairman I expect Dean to follow the rules

Second, what legal action? I know Hillary's campaign has been behind legal action or threats of legal action (in Nevada, Texas, etc.).

Third, why do the candidates have a say-so anyway? The state of Michigan screwed up, so they should be the ones who either schedule a revote or not.

Fourth, Obama would be fine with a revote, but voters who would have voted in the Democratic primaries if it had actually counted, but instead voted in the Republican primaries, should be allowed to vote in any revote - otherwise, it unfairly advantages Hillary.

[Tyler Durden]

55. THIS IS ALL MOOT.

There won't be a revote, the REPUBLICAN Michigan Senate would not address it unless both candidates agreed, Obama would not agree to a redo.

IT'S OVER. How about some damage control? I talk to a lot of people her in Michigan, and they are PISSED. How about some suggestions?

[olkaz]

58. Me, me! I have a suggestion!

How about we make the Michigan voters aware of the announcement last year that their votes won't be applied toward delegates if their state leadership moves ahead their date?

If they understood that, and blamed their state leadership instead, problem solved!

[Tyler Durden]

62. GREAT! Let's lose the Presidency AND some Senators.

You're not helping.

[olkaz]

76. Oh, so it's a bad suggestion?

Good lord, the sky is not falling, chicken little.

So you're saying we should assign blame where it doesn't belong for the sake of political expediency?

You are definitely in the right camp.

[Tyler Durden]

78. Enjoy McCain.

Maybe it's what you really want anyway. All I want at this point (since I can't have Gore) is a Democrat in the office.

[olkaz]

87. Fitting.

With all this subjective gobbldegook you've been tossing about in your flailing for a revote for Clinton in Michigan, it all seems to fit together now. Forget the rules, forget the timeline, forget the method, forget it all, and claim they want McCain for president.

This is what the end of a campaign looks like.

[Tyler Durden]

103. No, this is what the end of THIS campaign looks like.

In 40 years, I've NEVER seen this sort of thing before.

[LulaMay]

83. I didn't know that. Wow.

I have no idea what we could do now, except nominating Hillary, who at least is speaking up for the voters.

[stahbrett]

My suggestions

After Obama is the presumptive nominee, come up with a reasonable way to seat the MI and FL delegates. Following along the lines of the penalties assessed on the Republican side (50% loss of delegates, if I recall correctly) could be one approach. Then the whining and moaning goes away. You don't hear the Republicans in FL and MI whining and moaning about losing 50% of their delegates, do you?

[Exilednight]

100. Here's my suggestion: Call your state party leaders and hold them accountable for moving up........

the nomination. I agree that it sucks for the voters of Michigan, but the state party leaders were told what the rules and punishment was.

It's like getting pulled over for doing in 45 in a 35, and then acting surprised that you got a ticket.

[Larkspur]

89. Obama wants the re-do to be legal and valid

Mail in votes in FL are illegal and MI can't agree on a format. Caucuses are generally the format for a redo and caucuses don't have to be run like the IA ones. New Mexico's caucus is run like a primary.

Hillary opposes a caucus because she has trouble motivating her supporters to show up to them.

[redqueen]

95. But when HRC opposes a caucus, that's standing up for democracy!

Obama being worried about a privately-funded primary... well that's just UNAMERICAN!

:eyes:

[dragonlady]

142. Where have you seen that Obama is taking legal action?

I would appreciate a link if you have one. Otherwise, you might like to read my post at #136 about his lawyer's memo, which is not a lawsuit.

[techtrainer]

148. Forget about Blame - Obama has fallen into a trap

The political reality is that the Credentials Committee will be forced to seat delegates from Florida and Michigan one way or another.

Hillary will have control of the Rules committee.

Game Over.

[stahbrett]

150. why would she have control over the Rules committee? (nt)

[Cha]

Bullshit...you don't know what you're

on about..just a knee jerk whiner.

[Vinca]

10. Michigan needs to tell Howard Dean to go to hell and hold an election.

It doesn't matter whether one, both or neither candidate signs on.

[LulaMay]

Agreed.

[WolverineDG]

98. I thought they already did

and hence why they are in this position in the first place.

dg

[stillcool]

12. not the way I remember it...

December 1, 2007, 11:42 am
Democrats Strip Michigan of Delegates

By The New York Times

In a widely expected move, the Democratic National Committee voted this morning to strip Michigan of all its 156 delegates to the national nominating convention next year. The state is breaking the party’s rules by holding its primary on Jan. 15. Only Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada are allowed to hold contests prior to Feb. 5.

The party imposed a similar penalty on Florida in August for scheduling a Jan. 29 primary.

The Democratic candidates have already pledged not to campaign in the state, and Senators Barack Obama and Joseph R. Biden Jr., as well as John Edwards and Gov. Bill Richardson, asked to have their names removed from the state ballot.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/01/democrats-strip-michigan-delegates/

Lawmakers in US state Michigan approve moving presidential primary to January despite rules
The Associated Press
Published: August 30, 2007

LANSING, Michigan: Michigan lawmakers have approved moving the state's U.S. presidential nomination contests to January, three weeks earlier than party rules allow, as states continue to challenge the traditional primary election calendar to gain influence in the race.

Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm is expected to sign the bill passed Thursday that would move the contest to Jan. 15, but approval of the switch is far from certain. A disagreement among state Democratic leaders over whether to hold a traditional ballot vote or a more restricted caucus is complicating final action.

If the date moves up, Michigan Democrats risk losing all their national convention delegates, while Republicans risk losing half.
------------------------------------
Rules in both parties say states cannot hold their 2008 primary contests before Feb. 5, except for a few hand-picked states that hold elections in January.
--------------------------------
"We understand that we're violating the rules, but it wasn't by choice," Michigan Republican Chairman Saul Anuzis said, noting that state Democrats first proposed moving the date to Jan. 15. "We're going to ask for forgiveness and we think ... we will get forgiveness."
----------------------------------
Even states that do not have favored status are trying to jump toward the front of the line. Florida Democrats decided to move their state's primary to Jan. 29. The national party has said it will strip Florida of its presidential convention delegates unless it decides within the next few weeks to move the vote to a later date.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/08/31/america/NA-POL-US-Primary-Scramble.php?WT.mc_id=rssap_america

Democrats vow to skip defiant states
Six candidates agree not to campaign in those that break with the party's calendar. Florida and Michigan, this includes you.
By Mark Z. Barabak, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
September 2, 2007
The muddled 2008 presidential nomination calendar gained some clarity Saturday -- at least on the Democratic side -- as the party's major candidates agreed not to campaign in any state that defies party rules by voting earlier than allowed.

Their collective action was a blow to Florida and Michigan, two states likely to be important in the general election, which sought to enhance their clout in the nominating process as well.

Front-runner Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York followed Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois and former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina in pledging to abide by the calendar set by the Democratic National Committee last summer. The rules allow four states -- Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina -- to vote in January.

The four "need to be first because in these states ideas count, not just money," Edwards said in a written statement. "This tried-and-true nominating system is the only way for voters to judge the field based on the quality of the candidate, not the depth of their war chest."

Hours later, after Obama took the pledge, Clinton's campaign chief issued a statement citing the four states' "unique and special role in the nominating process" and said that the New York senator, too, would "adhere to the DNC-approved calendar."

Three candidates running farther back in the pack -- New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson and Sens. Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut and Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware -- said Friday they would honor the pledge, shortly after the challenge was issued in a letter co-signed by Democratic leaders in the four early states.
--
Florida, the state that proved pivotal in the 2000 presidential election, is again a source of much upheaval. Ignoring the rule that put January off-limits, legislators moved the state's primary up to Jan. 29, pushing Florida past California and other big states voting Feb. 5.

Leaders of the national party responded last month by giving Florida 30 days to reconsider, or have its delegates barred from the August convention in Denver.

"The party had to send a strong message to Florida and the other states," said Donna Brazile, a veteran campaign strategist and member of the Democratic National Committee, the party's governing body. "We have a system that is totally out of control."

Despite that warning, Michigan lawmakers moved last week to jump the queue, voting to advance the state's primary to Jan. 15.

Florida Dems defy Dean on primary date
By Sam Youngman
Posted: 06/12/07 07:58 PM
Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), is trapped in a high-stakes game of chicken with party leaders in Florida.

They warned him yesterday not to “disenfranchise” state voters and risk being blamed for a debacle on the scale of the 2000 recount.

The warning comes amid alarm over a decision Sunday by state Democratic leaders to embrace Jan. 29 as the primary date.
They are defying DNC headquarters and daring it to follow through on its threat to disqualify electors selected in the primary and punish candidates who campaign there.

But the DNC is not backing down. The committee bought time with a statement late yesterday saying, “The DNC will enforce the rules as passed by its 447 members in Aug. 2006. Until the Florida State Democratic Party formally submits its plan and we’ve had the opportunity to review that submission, we will not speculate further.”

Dean does not, in any case, have the power to waive party rules, a DNC spokeswoman said. The entire committee would have to vote again to do that.
------------------

Carol Fowler, chairwoman of the South Carolina Democratic Party, said she won’t move that state’s primary, scheduled for Feb. 2, unless the national committee allows her.

“I’m going to do what the DNC tells me to,” Fowler said. “I’m not willing to violate the rules. The penalties are too stiff.”
.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/florida-dems-defy-dean-on-primary-date-2007-06-12.html

DNC Moves to Stop Primary Frontloading
The Democratic National Committee moved over the weekend to penalize Florida for moving up its primary date to Jan. 29 -- a violation of DNC rules that prohibit states from holding nominating polls before Feb. 5.
The committee said the Sunshine State would be stripped of its delegation at the party's National Convention in 2008 if the state does not reschedule its primary in the next 30 days.

As the nation's fourth-most-populous state, Florida has 210 delegates and has played a major role in recent presidential elections. Florida's decision to advance its primary follows the increasing trend of states pushing up their contests in order to gain relevance in the election.

"Rules are rules. California abided by them, and Florida should, as well. To ignore them would open the door to chaos," said Garry Shays, a DNC member from California. California -- with its 441 delegates -- moved its primary to Feb. 5, along with more than a dozen other states.
-----------------------------------------

The DNC's move may have repercussions beyond Florida as other state legislatures consider disregarding the Feb. 5 cutoff. Last week, Michigan's state Senate voted to hold its primary on Jan. 15. The state's House is expected to approve the earlier date as well.

The DNC gave Florida the option of holding a Jan. 29 contest but with nonbinding results, and the delegates would be awarded at a later official date.

Florida Democratic Committee Chairwoman Karen Thurman said this option would be expensive -- as much as $8 million -- and potentially undoable. Another option would be to challenge the ruling in court.

"We do represent, standing here, a lot of Democrats in the state of Florida -- over 4 million," Thurman said, according to the New York Times. "This is emotional for Florida. And it should be."
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/politics/july-dec07/florida_08-27.html

Published: Monday, September 24, 2007
Florida defies Dems, moves up primary
Associated Press

PEMBROKE PINES, Fla. — The Florida Democratic Party is sticking to its primary date — and it printed bumper stickers to prove it.

State party leaders formally announced Sunday their plans to move ahead with a Jan. 29 primary, despite the national leadership's threatened sanctions.

The Democratic National Committee has said it will strip the Sunshine State of its 210 nominating convention delegates if it doesn't abide by the party-set calendar, which forbids most states from holding primary contests before Feb. 5. The exceptions are Iowa on Jan. 14, Nevada on Jan. 19, New Hampshire on Jan. 22 and South Carolina on Jan. 29.
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20070924/NEWS02/709240045/-1/

Michigan defies parties, moves up primary date
JAN. 15 DECISION COULD SET OFF STAMPEDE OF STATES
By Stephen Ohlemacher
Associated Press
Article Launched: 09/05/2007 01:34:57 AM PDT

WASHINGTON - Michigan officially crashed the early primary party Tuesday, setting up showdowns with both political parties and likely pushing the presidential nomination calendar closer to 2007.

Gov. Jennifer Granholm signed a bill moving both of Michigan's presidential primaries to Jan. 15. Michigan's move threatens to set off a chain reaction that could force Iowa and New Hampshire to reschedule their contests even earlier than anticipated, perhaps in the first week in January 2008 or even December 2007.
-------------------------------------------
The national parties have tried to impose discipline on the rogue states. On the Republican side, states that schedule contests before Feb. 5 risk losing half their delegates to next summer's convention, though some are banking that whoever wins the GOP nomination will eventually restore the delegates.

Democrats have experienced similar problems, but party officials hoped they had stopped the mad dash to move up by threatening to strip Florida of all its convention delegates for scheduling a primary Jan. 29 and by persuading the major Democratic candidates to campaign only in the party-approved early states.

Michigan, in moving up its primary, faces a similar penalty from the Democratic National Committee.
-----------------------------------------------------

The decision by the major Democratic candidates to campaign only in approved early states renders voting in the rogue states essentially non-binding beauty contests.

But Former Michigan Gov. James Blanchard, co-chairman of Hillary Clinton's Michigan campaign, told the Associated Press on Tuesday that the pledge allows candidates' spouses to campaign in the state, allows the candidates to speak to groups of 200 or fewer and permits fundraising.
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_6804685?source=rss

Editorial: Follow DNC rules on seating delegates
February 25, 2008
By Editorial Board

Senator Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) has suggested seating the Michigan and Florida delegates at the Democratic National Convention, even though the Democratic National Committee (DNC) stripped them of their status. The DNC originally set itself up for trouble by denying these influential states a place at the convention as punishment for scheduling their primaries too early in the year. However, the fact remains that, since each and every Democratic presidential candidate pledged not to campaign in these states and to abide by the DNC’s decision, these delegates should not be seated at the convention.

On September 1, the campaigns of Clinton and Senator Barack Obama (D-Ill.) issued press releases stating that they had signed pledges affirming the DNC’s decision to approve certain representative states and sanction others for moving their nominating contests earlier. But now that the race is close, Clinton — whose top advisor Harold Ickes voted as a member of the DNC to strip Florida and Michigan of their delegates — is pushing for the delegates to be seated.

Her argument is that not doing so disenfranchises the 1.7 million Florida Democrats who voted and that her pledge promised only that she wouldn’t campaign in the states, not that she wouldn’t try to seat the delegates. However, the results of the contests in Florida and Michigan are not necessarily representative of the voters’ preferences in those states. Given that most of the candidates removed their names from the Michigan ballot, and that many voters stayed home from the vote in Florida with the understanding that their contest would not affect the final delegate count, the delegate totals that the candidates accumulated in these states may not accurately reflect the will of the voters. Had there been no restrictions in Michigan and Florida, the turnout, and thus the results, may have been different.

The Four State Pledge all candidates signed on Aug. 28 stated, “Whereas, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee will strip states of 100% of their delegates and super delegates to the DNC National Convention if they violate the nomination calendar... Therefore, I ____________, Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules ...pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window.” When the candidates pledged to campaign only in approved states, they were also agreeing to the terms listed above, which explicitly mentioned stripping noncompliant states of their entire delegation.

As it has become clear that the delegate race will be very close, politicians in the Democratic party are discussing the implications of the DNC pledge, and whether it would be wise to seat the delegates after all, rather than risk offending these important states that could be influential in the November election.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) recently said that the Florida and Michigan delegates should not be seated if they would decide the nomination. Other compromise proposals include holding new nominating contests in these states, but such contests would be expensive and cumbersome. The irony is that had Florida and Michigan not moved up their primaries, they would have voted in February and March, when they would have been even more important than in earlier months in determining the Democratic nominee — and would not have created an enormous controversy that has the potential to divide the party.
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2008/2/25/editorialFollowDncRulesOnSeatingDelegates

[olkaz]

17. Thanks for that, I REALLY don't feel bad for them now

Michigan and Florda, you have yourselves to blame.

Attack your blindingly stupid leadership.

[chimpymustgo]

32. It is not fair to punish the voters. Dean and the Democrats need to come up with

a DEMOCRATIC solution post haste.

[olkaz]

47. Did you not read those articles?

There were warned MONTHS in advance.

The voters have nobody to blame but their state leadership and themselves. Dean is only sticking to what he said half a year ago.

[stillcool]

50. where were you last June?

seems that was the time to push for your "post-haste" solution

[redqueen]

24. Facts? They don't need your steenkeen facts! They've got OUTRAGE!

M$M-fueled MELODRAMA!

*pulls hair out, rends garments*

:eyes:

[Tyler Durden]

37. EXACTLY. Now how do we combat that?

This is a Democratic Party issue, not an OBAMA or CLINTON issue anymore. If you don't think McCain's Campaign isn't already writing the ads for Michigan ("The Democratic Party doesn't want your votes!") Then you are sorely mistaken.

[redqueen]

40. Are you fooling yourself?

Cause you're not fooling me.

If that were your genuine opinion, you wouldn't have worded your OP as a slam at Obama.

[Tyler Durden]

60. FORGET perception. How about some suggestions?

I think it was colossally stupid from a political point of view for the Obama Campaign to oppose the redo. They could only lose from a publicity position by doing this. Now it's moot. I'm allowed to be pissed off at behavior I see as benefiting REPUBLICANS, aren't I?

So how about something CONSTRUCTIVE, or go gloat somewhere else?

[redqueen]

70. How about they get the punishment they signed on for?

You know, the one that THEY AGREED TO before, when HRC thought she didn't need the votes? (Yeah, I know, that's not gonna happen.)

This is now up to the credentials committee. All this melodrama is foolish.

[Tyler Durden]

74. I'll remember you said this in November.

[redqueen]

75. .

:rofl:

[Tyler Durden]

80. Cute. and real mature.

We talked from time to time in the past. A shame you have to behave this way.

[redqueen]

91. I'm sorry that you don't see the humor in your statement.

Honestly... are you keeping a list of who said what?

What are you going to do, blame me personally if MI goes for McSame? Because I didn't care enough to do what... spin my wheels reacting to M$M bullcrap?

What did you expect to get out of this thread? You've got Clinton supporters peppering it with "BO is dissing MI voters! HRC CARES!" crap... are you going after them for not getting your point?

[Tyler Durden]

105. YES, I'm out for THEM TOO.

But they seem a little few and far between. The vast majority seem to be Obama supporters screaming "Blame Michigan!"

Yeah this will be just great in November. Not.

[redqueen]

31. This great *rational* post deserves its own thread, really.

Considering the constant uproar over these two states.

[olkaz]

35. /signed - give this it's own thread

Gives this whole conversation some perspective.

[Tyler Durden]

43. Too bad I'm ignoring that poster.

[redqueen]

49. If you're interested

you can take stillcool47 off Ignore long enough to read it.

[Tyler Durden]

66. You want to fill me in, feel free.

Something they said was personal and not excusable.

[redqueen]

71. It's a lot of links and highlighted text... showing

exactly where the blame lies for this cluster****.

[Tyler Durden]

77. You're missing the point.

The GOP will blame ALL OF US. This is the issue. At this point it's moot. Who gives a fuck who's to BLAME?

[redqueen]

84. All this is is a blame game, because

this whole "uh oh you're gonna lose now cause voters are mad!" nonsense is just that. Nonsense.

[Tyler Durden]

102. Whatever you say.

Shit. Who cares anyway? This whole primary has been one disaster after another. Why not another one?

[JTFrog]

147. ROFLMAO!!!!!

Who gives a fuck who's to BLAME?

You do realize that you just shot your own OP right out of the sky right?

This was a good laugh this morning.

[biglefthander]

64. thank you

hopefully some people will read this and keep their knee-jerk "outrage" to themselves from now on.

Hillary supporters: If you were winning you wouldn't want these elections to proceed and you KNOW it. So stop with the sanctimonious BS about "disenfranchisement" and letting the votes count. You only want the votes to count as long as they count for your candidate, who cant win the nomination under any scenario that excludes MI and FL.

And calm down. The delegates will be seated at the convention. Just not under the results of the flawed elections in January.

As far as the general election goes, if Michigan and Florida vote GOP then they only have themselves to blame for their problems since they voted GOP. If they havent figured out that the GOP is the cause of their problems already, there is nothing we can do to help them.

[Tyler Durden]

72. I suggest you read up on "Pyrrhic Victory" as well.

We have just given the GOP another talking point about how Democrats "really don't care about your votes."

Time to fix this.

[biglefthander]

139. How?

I'm quite familiar with the term, thank you.

"We" didnt give the GOP the talking point. If they want to blame someone they should blame their own state governors and legislatures for trying to game the system. Seems as though the local papers have covered that angle pretty well.

Like I said, the delegates will be seated. I don't understand exactly what you think the solution is. The state govts. dont want to pay for a revote. Neither do the candidates. Neither does the DNC. So if no one will pay for them, no re-vote. And Hillary didnt give a f@ck about the revote back in January, when there was time to do something. Only now that she is desperately behind does she "care" about the voters will.

This is a lesson in the value of patience. Had they just gone with the original program, their elections would have been hugely important, but instead they had to try and cheat and they got slapped for it.

[UALRBSofL]

13. This is because Obama's Camp has thrown up a roadblock

In Michigan and Florida and wont budge to let them have a re-vote. Of course people are connecting this decision with Howard Dean, Obama's good friend.

[olkaz]

28. You should really look at all the newspaper clippings here first

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5157828&mesg_id=5157996

Many of those were from LAST YEAR. They were that brazen in risking their own state's delegates. Put the blame where it belongs, on the states' respective leadership.

You're going to lose your delegates if you do this.
You're going to lose your delegates if you do this.
You're going to lose your delegates if you do this.
You're going to lose your delegates if you do this.
You're going to lose your delegates if you do this.

You lose your delegates.

WHAT!?! REVOTE!!!!

[IndianaJones]

14. I work with a few people that live in MI, and they are very angry. nt.

[goclark]

25. I have many friends in MI and they are not angry

They are so busy trying to find a job they are not thinking of this election ~

Michigan is in a tail spin and it is not because of this

[redqueen]

27. Let's hope they know about Hillary's lies about her past support of NAFTA. (nt)

[SIMPLYB1980]

41. And lets hope that they have seen all of Obama's lies on NAFTA as well.

[redqueen]

44. Of course they did... Hillary was blasting them just prior to OH's vote.

Were you not paying attention?

[SIMPLYB1980]

56. I was paying very close attention.

Just like I was paying close attention when Obama and his surrogates played the race card in SC.

[mmonk]

18. The best thing I can tell about this election is

everything is Obama's fault. It's his fault MI and FlA decided to break the rules. It's his fault the DNC is standing by the rules. It's his fault he has an AA preacher white people don't like. It's his fault his middle name is Hussein and his last name rhymes with Osama. blah blah blah

[JimGinPA]

26. The Sky Is Falling, The Sky Is Falling...

The OP doesn't contain any information about either WHY the MI primary delegates were removed or any FACTS showing that it's somehow Obama's fault that a new, fair primary will not occur.

[Tyler Durden]

30. ATTENTION OBAMA SUPPORTERS

This is about Damage Control.

I assume if Obama was going to win the nomination, he'd do it with or without the Michigan Primary. THIS IS NOT THE ISSUE.

The issue here is how does the Party combat the negative publicity.

If you BLAME Democratic Leaders in Michigan...how productive is that?

If you BLAME the DNC, same thing.

SO...HOW do we combat the negative publicity this will inevitably generate?

And knock off the HRC bullshit. That has nothing to do with this disaster.

[redqueen]

34. We should blame OBAMA! Like you did in the OP!

Is that the answer you wanted?

:wtf:

[Tyler Durden]

108. NO. I want the BLAME to STOP.

Obama will likely be the nominee. NOW. How would one combat what the GOP will say about this? And don't discount it. It's worth millions in "Dems don't care if you vote or not."

It's already being SAID. REALLY.

[redqueen]

112. You, yourself, just pointed your finger at Obama in post 101.

Were you so upset when Hillary said she wouldn't accept a caucus?

[Tyler Durden]

120. I repeat, the Republican Senate in Michigan would not approve a caucus.

THEY made that clear. They weren't making any of this easy. But to say that the Obama Delegation in Michigan was not stalling for the Thursday deadline to be up, after they were making positive statements on Sunday, that would be a lie.

[Larkspur]

93. Caucuses are the normal format for a re-do but Hillary doesn't support a caucus

So Hillary is at fault as much as the greedy MI & FL leaders who wanted their primaries to end the nomination battle before Feb. 5.

[Tyler Durden]

114. Michigan has no caucus mechanism. Try again.

The Republican Senate in Michigan already made that clear. No Caucus.

So that's BS as well. Come up with something constructive.

[PoliticalAmazon]

36. Cheater Hillary: following in footsteps of her mentor, Bush Jr

Either Hillary Clinton is a person of her word or not. She agreed to not campaign in those two states, and to not count their delegates.

But now she's trying to pull a Bush Jr and get her way by cheating.

How is this Obama's fault?

[MonkeyFunk]

111. And she didn't campaign in those states.

Only Kucinich campaigned in Michigan, and only Obama ran ads in Florida.

[Buzz Clik]

39. Tyler Durden and his rendition of "Much Ado About Nothing"

"You know this isn't an ANTI-OBAMA post." Right. Your first one ever.

Tell me, Durden -- when was the last time you posted something about Obama that wasn't laced with raw emotionalism and pure hysteria?

I've gotta say that you have sounded the alert much too often for anyone to take your seriously.

Maybe if you took some time off. Like six months. Your credibility might be restored.

[Oilwellian]

42. So I guess living up to rules and the signing of pledges...

doesn't count in the Hillary camp anymore. The state Democratic parties in these states agreed to abide by DNC rules. Rules are the structure that holds the party together. MI & FL voters should be angry with their state officials. It's absurd to blame their mess on Obama. Hillary breaks her pledge and somehow it's Obama's fault?

What other party consistently breaks the rules? Oh, that's right. Republicans.

[rodeodance]

52. Bottom line--HRC is in MI showing she cares while BO is dissing them.

[Buzz Clik]

59. Another objective observer weighs in.

[rodeodance]

68. thank you

[Buzz Clik]

73. I've noticed that you still haven't developed the honesty to carry a representative avatar.

Your despise of Obama surely merits some level of truth in advertising.

[RiverStone]

81. She's there because her name was on the ballot...

And Obama agreed to pull his name of it.

The MI voters will get screwed if ultimately they don't get to participate - and I'm all for a redo (even if unlikely currently) - but Hil is there because she kept her name on a ballot for a state the broke the DNC rules.

It is obviously self serving.

[Terran]

53. Good lord man

To me it's rather a stretch to believe that people will vote for McCain because they might think Obama is responsible for 'ruining' their state's primary. The state party is responsible and always has been, so maybe the Dems created some liability at that point. But you'd have to have a purely political mindset, as most of us here do, to see it that way. I doubt if the average UAW grunt would vote pubbie because they think Obama personally disenfranchised him or her.

[JVS]

57. What the hell happened to your boycott of GD:P ?

Michigan's politicians fucked up and should have been able to fix this mess before a single (non valid btw) vote was cast.

[Tyler Durden]

82. I've waited far too long to ignore you.

[JVS]

90. If you want to act sanctimonious about being above the fray, you should actually be above the fray.

[theredpen]

61. CLINTON isn't running. Clinton is.

"In fact, from Humphrey to Clinton (I repeat, CLINTON)"

Yeah, we heard you the first time. It's sexist to mention Hillary riding Bill's coattails — except when it isn't.

[democrattotheend]

63. Michigan was always a battleground state

It was never a state we expected to be able to take for granted.

[EFerrari]

79. That's right. And there's the matter of Democrats who crossed over

in the primary. They can't cross back and vote.

There really isn't a way to have an equitable re-vote.

[scheming daemons]

65. The idea that just because they couldn't vote in the primary.....

...means that they will vote for McCain in the GE is false.


There is no logical argument there.


I have lots of friends in Michigan who, while pissed that they didn't get to vote for Obama in the primary, will still relish the chance to vote for him in the GE.


Nobody is holding Obama *OR* Clinton at fault for Michigan not having a valid primary and it doesn't affect their GE vote one bit.

[Turn CO Blue]

67. So, basically you want to disenfranchise the rest of the voters

because the voters who did not get to select someone OTHER than Clinton in that primary (because the other candidate names were NOT on the ballot)can just be disenfranchised in your book! That's how your "ethics" work? You think that is fair to only get to count SOME voters but just let the rest of those voters languish.

You honestly believe that, and do not feel that your BIAS is coloring your view? You want to screw all those other voters so that the Clinton voters can be counted? How do you plan to count the REST OF THE VOTERS???

It's blatantly and patently unfair, and your post is deliberately OBTUSE!


No progressive would choose to willingly disenfranchise all those voters who DID NOT GET TO VOTE!

[gmudem]

69. Kerry won Michigan 51-48

And Gore won 51-47. Did you really think Michigan wasn't going to be a tough state anyway?

[Tyler Durden]

88. So the best solution was to make it tougher?

[RiverStone]

86. What Objective evidence do you have to point the blame at Obama???

The voters in MI (and FLA) are indeed getting screwed out of their right to vote - and I'm all for a redo in both states.

But how you can trace blame to Obama when unequivocally this whole mess started when the states gave the finger to the DNC and moved up their voting dates. It is as simple as that.

[LulaMay]

92. You're right. It's over. Nominating Hillary would assuage many voters. She stood up 4 them.

Not that it could be enough.

I'm so angry at Howard COWARD Dean.

This could ruin our chances for the White House and still, even now, he is silent.

[olkaz]

96. Good lord, that's some RW sounding crap if I ever heard it.

"Coward"? You sound like Mean Jean Shaheen!

Anyway, if you really want this thing to happen, you should be on the horn with Michigan's leadership, not bitching on a message board about somebody who's following the rules.

[Tyler Durden]

101. Too late.

I've already called. Thanks to the State Senators heading the Obama Campaign in Michigan, the redo is dead.

[olkaz]

104. Good on you for trying.

I disagree with you thoroughly, but I'm always happy when people get involved. Make sure they know how you feel.

[redqueen]

109. "Thanks to the State Senators heading the Obama Campaign in Michigan..."

Oh, but it's not a blame game... oh nooooooooooooooo...

[Tyler Durden]

116. Forget it.

[LulaMay]

115. So now people who are angry at Dean's silence are Rethugs? And don't yell at me that I'm "bitching"

especially since you have no idea who I've written or called about this mess.

[olkaz]

125. Your computer yells?

Do my posts get read out electronically on your computer? So like when I type something, you actually hear it? Because I don't know how to yell through a posting here, unless I hit a wrong button somewhere.

If this is yelling on your computer right now, then...

Help me! Help me! This crazy kidnapper won't let me out of the basement!

Thanks for that. Anyway, your post actually reminded me of "Mean Jean" Schmidt (no idea why I thought of Shaheen). Remember her? She called Jack Murtha a coward. That boosted her image! She commands the respect of all that witness her now.

If you were really concerned, it seems like you would be on the phone. DU wastes time. If you're here, you're wasting time. You're not on a holy quest of privately-funded quickie elections. You're wasting time.

Is the computer still shouting my words?

Somebody help me! I want my mommy!

[stahbrett]

99. Dean did not force MI and FL to move up their primaries

Remember these facts:

1) The state Democratic parties agreed to the rules back in 2006. Michigan and Florida both agreed to the rules.

2) Michigan decided to move up their primaries, even though (a) they were warned they would be punished, and (b) AFTER Florida moved THEIR primary up and got punished themselves.

3) Once Hillary concedes the nomination, a plan to seat Michigan and Florida WILL be agreed upon.

4) Obama is so far ahead right now that even IF Michigan and Florida were seated "as-is" based on the invalid election results, he would still have a healthy lead - in other words, these two states are not keeping Hillary from being the candidate with the most pledged delegates.

[LulaMay]

117. He sure didn't succeed in averting this mess in any way.

[stahbrett]

122. He does not have the power to prevent the state parties from being stupid

He can and did warn them ahead of time what the ramifications are from being stupid.

[stillcool]

124. I don't get it...

The Democratic National Committee and all of the states agree to the rules in March. Then a few rogue states decide that they will not follow those very rules, they had previously agreed to. Knowing fully well what the consequences for their actions will be, Michigan and Florida break the rules anyway. The other 48 states abide by the rules. And you blame Howard Dean.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

94. This is deeply ironic.

The idea from Clinton supporters that Obama wants to disenfranchise voters.

These are the people that say Mississippi doesn't count. Wyoming doesn't count. Wisconsin doesn't count. South Carolina doesn't count. States with caucuses don't count. States with lots of black people don't count. States with bad weather don't count. People in red states are second class citizens.

How, exactly, do you expect to be taken seriously?

[jackson_dem]

107. Yup and Florida to the list when Obama fights to disenfranchise Florida at the convention

Obama is in it for Obama. The party and country be damned. YES WE CAN win without FL and MI--Obama will win Utah and Idaho! :sarcasm:

[VotesForWomen]

110. the O-nuts have forgotten about a little thing called the GE. nt

[kwenu]

118. I hear that chamomile tea can help to calm your delicate nerves.

A warm wet towel will take care of all of the foam around the mouth. And a nap will clear your mind.

Once Hillary leaves the stage and we get this party united, Michigan will be ready to talk about what Obama plans to do for this country. At the top of that list is Obama's focus on investments in education, training, and workforce development. Michigan will be especially excited to hear that Obama plans to provide assistance to the domestic auto industry to ensure that new fuel-efficient vehicles are built by American workers.

This is the focus we need to win in November instead of a bunch of shrill whining and wailing.

[Tyler Durden]

121. You know NOTHING about Michigan.

The Republicans in this state have already convinced voters that affirmative action is reverse discrimination, that gay marriage jeopardizes families, that green power is a job killer....

This state was hard enough for Obama as it was. His committee here just made it harder for him. Arrogance.

[kwenu]

133. If what you now say is true then your original post is non-sensical. Think about it.

[cooolandrew]

119. I think that Obama has a way to turn everything roound. Why was it posters fault? I say re-vote.

[Tyler Durden]

123. It sure would be some positive publicity for his campaign.

It's too late.

[redqueen]

128. Psst... here's what an OP which is aiming for an honest discussion looks like:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5159036

[Tyler Durden]

143. PS: you just get more snarky with time.

Whether you accept it or not, I am allowed to be pissed off by the Obama Camp sabotaging the Michigan Redo because they think they might lose a vote or two: THAT is what's called "DEMOCRACY."

[chocome]

127. MEMO: Obama\'s Re-Vote Pledge: Just Words

http://facts.hillaryhub.com/

On February 8, 2008, Barack Obama stood in the aisle of his airplane and told reporters that he would be “fine” with a new primary in Michigan if it could be done in a way that gave him and Senator Clinton time to make their respective cases and the DNC signed off. Since then, such a plan has garnered broad support from top Michigan lawmakers and the DNC has given its blessing.

So Barack Obama is on board, right? Guess again. It turns out that his comments about being fine with a re-vote if the above conditions were met were just words. As yesterday’s headline in the Detroit Free-Press made clear, Senator Obama is the lone standout: “Michigan do-over depends on Obama\'s backing, Senate leaders say.”

The Clinton campaign believes the right to vote is a bedrock principle of our country and that empowering the people of Michigan and Florida to make their voices heard must be a priority for any candidate running for the Democratic nomination. As such, we must either honor the original vote or hold a state-run primary that doesn’t leave the taxpayers footing the bill.

So why is the Obama campaign refusing to give the people of Michigan the chance to exercise their fundamental right to vote? Let’s take a quick look at what the Obama campaign is arguing and explore why those arguments are wrong:

False Excuse #1: Barack Obama Wasn’t on the Ballot. The Obama campaign argues that their candidate wasn’t on the January ballot because the Michigan primary wasn’t sanctioned by the DNC and they were trying to comply with the early state pledge. Let’s remember that the point of the early state pledge was to protect the role of the four states that held early nominating contests. Well the contests in those states were protected and the people in Iowa, South Carolina, New Hampshire and Nevada got a chance to vote. Keep in mind that nearly twice as many people voted in Michigan and Florida than voted in the four early states combined.

Senator Clinton signed the pledge and kept it. Senator Obama signed the pledge and kept it in Michigan. But in so doing, Senator Obama decided to go further and made a voluntary decision to remove his name from the Michigan ballot. That was his right but it was also his decision. As a result, he denied Michigan the opportunity to vote for a slate of candidates. There aren’t many second chances in life but Senator Obama has one now and should ask the people of Michigan for their vote. Why is he refusing to do so?

False Excuse #2: Obama Voters Participated in GOP Primary. The Obama camp will argue that their supporters voted in the GOP primary because Barack Obama wasn’t on the Democratic ballot. They argue that the legislation’s effort to comply with the DNC rules is unfair since the bill would prohibit people who voted in the 2008 GOP primary in Michigan from voting a second time in the Democratic contest. On its face, you might think the Obama campaign is making a sound case. But two points render their argument inoperable:

First, the Obama campaign has repeatedly said that it would comply with DNC rules and DNC Rule 2.E prohibits cross-over voting. The draft legislation does not permit anyone who voted in Michigan’s Republican primary in January to now vote in the Democratic primary. Senator Obama has said that this is a key reason why he cannot support the legislation but that provision must be in the bill in order to comply with the DNC rules. So while Senator Obama’s campaign says he will follow the rules, he wants one of them to be ignored.

Second, the Obama campaign’s allies in Michigan organized an effort to get people in Michigan to vote for “uncommitted” in the Democratic primary, helping to bring the uncommitted share of vote to 40 percent. So the Obama camp can’t reasonably argue supporters participated in the GOP primary and didn’t vote in the Democratic contest.

False Excuse #3: Clinton Supporters Have Said They’d Raise Money For a Primary and They Back Clinton. The Obama campaign will argue that Clinton supporters have said they’d help raise money to finance the primary and that’s not fair. Last time we checked, the Obama campaign wasn’t hurting for donors. More to the point, Democrats are blessed this cycle with an energized grassroots. We believe that appealing to everyday people to finance this primary exemplifies what this election is about: giving a voice to the voiceless.

False Excuse #4: Michigan Law Requires First-time Absentee Voters Must Vote In Person Before They Can Vote Absentee – Just Like in Illinois. The Obama camp will argue that they are at a disadvantage because a lot of their supporters are college students who vote absentee. But Michigan law says that a person voting absentee must cast a vote in person before they are eligible to vote absentee which will result in the exclusion of many Obama supporters, of whom many are first time voters. The Obama campaign should be familiar with that sort of system since it’s the rule in Illinois and we didn’t hear too much complaining in the run-up to February 5 primary there. More to the point, this rule will be in place in Michigan for the general election. So will the Obama campaign use this excuse to justify writing off Michigan in the general if Barack Obama is the nominee? We hope not.

The bottom line is that Michigan has all the problems and promise that we talk about in this country. Competing in Michigan sends a signal that Democrats care and understand the people there deserve the chance to make their voices heard and need someone in the White House who will hear their voices.

If Barack Obama doesn’t want to help make that happen, Hillary Clinton is ready to do so. We call on the Obama campaign to let the people of Michigan vote

[redqueen]

129. Oh joy... another one.

[olkaz]

130. hahahahahaah

Excuse me if I disregard an official campaign memo from HillaryHub.

God that's hilarious.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

132. Maybe you can post the whole content of the website here!!!

That would be GREAT!!1!11

:puke:


Oh, BTW. Welcome, back.

[stillcool]

134. Hillary has dementia

Deterioration of intellectual faculties, such as memory, concentration, and judgment, sometimes accompanied by emotional disturbance and personality changes. Dementia is caused by organic damage to the brain (as in Alzheimer's disease), head trauma, metabolic disorders, or the presence of a tumor.

December 1, 2007, 11:42 am
Democrats Strip Michigan of Delegates

By The New York Times

In a widely expected move, the Democratic National Committee voted this morning to strip Michigan of all its 156 delegates to the national nominating convention next year. The state is breaking the party’s rules by holding its primary on Jan. 15. Only Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada are allowed to hold contests prior to Feb. 5.

The party imposed a similar penalty on Florida in August for scheduling a Jan. 29 primary.

The Democratic candidates have already pledged not to campaign in the state, and Senators Barack Obama and Joseph R. Biden Jr., as well as John Edwards and Gov. Bill Richardson, asked to have their names removed from the state ballot.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/01/democrats-strip-michigan-delegates/

Lawmakers in US state Michigan approve moving presidential primary to January despite rules
The Associated Press
Published: August 30, 2007

LANSING, Michigan: Michigan lawmakers have approved moving the state's U.S. presidential nomination contests to January, three weeks earlier than party rules allow, as states continue to challenge the traditional primary election calendar to gain influence in the race.

Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm is expected to sign the bill passed Thursday that would move the contest to Jan. 15, but approval of the switch is far from certain. A disagreement among state Democratic leaders over whether to hold a traditional ballot vote or a more restricted caucus is complicating final action.

If the date moves up, Michigan Democrats risk losing all their national convention delegates, while Republicans risk losing half.
------------------------------------
Rules in both parties say states cannot hold their 2008 primary contests before Feb. 5, except for a few hand-picked states that hold elections in January.
--------------------------------
"We understand that we're violating the rules, but it wasn't by choice," Michigan Republican Chairman Saul Anuzis said, noting that state Democrats first proposed moving the date to Jan. 15. "We're going to ask for forgiveness and we think ... we will get forgiveness."
----------------------------------
Even states that do not have favored status are trying to jump toward the front of the line. Florida Democrats decided to move their state's primary to Jan. 29. The national party has said it will strip Florida of its presidential convention delegates unless it decides within the next few weeks to move the vote to a later date.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/08/31/america/NA-POL-US-Primary-Scramble.php?WT.mc_id=rssap_america

Democrats vow to skip defiant states
Six candidates agree not to campaign in those that break with the party's calendar. Florida and Michigan, this includes you.
By Mark Z. Barabak, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
September 2, 2007
The muddled 2008 presidential nomination calendar gained some clarity Saturday -- at least on the Democratic side -- as the party's major candidates agreed not to campaign in any state that defies party rules by voting earlier than allowed.

Their collective action was a blow to Florida and Michigan, two states likely to be important in the general election, which sought to enhance their clout in the nominating process as well.

Front-runner Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York followed Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois and former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina in pledging to abide by the calendar set by the Democratic National Committee last summer. The rules allow four states -- Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina -- to vote in January.

The four "need to be first because in these states ideas count, not just money," Edwards said in a written statement. "This tried-and-true nominating system is the only way for voters to judge the field based on the quality of the candidate, not the depth of their war chest."

Hours later, after Obama took the pledge, Clinton's campaign chief issued a statement citing the four states' "unique and special role in the nominating process" and said that the New York senator, too, would "adhere to the DNC-approved calendar."

Three candidates running farther back in the pack -- New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson and Sens. Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut and Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware -- said Friday they would honor the pledge, shortly after the challenge was issued in a letter co-signed by Democratic leaders in the four early states.
--
Florida, the state that proved pivotal in the 2000 presidential election, is again a source of much upheaval. Ignoring the rule that put January off-limits, legislators moved the state's primary up to Jan. 29, pushing Florida past California and other big states voting Feb. 5.

Leaders of the national party responded last month by giving Florida 30 days to reconsider, or have its delegates barred from the August convention in Denver.

"The party had to send a strong message to Florida and the other states," said Donna Brazile, a veteran campaign strategist and member of the Democratic National Committee, the party's governing body. "We have a system that is totally out of control."

Despite that warning, Michigan lawmakers moved last week to jump the queue, voting to advance the state's primary to Jan. 15.

Florida Dems defy Dean on primary date
By Sam Youngman
Posted: 06/12/07 07:58 PM
Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), is trapped in a high-stakes game of chicken with party leaders in Florida.

They warned him yesterday not to “disenfranchise” state voters and risk being blamed for a debacle on the scale of the 2000 recount.

The warning comes amid alarm over a decision Sunday by state Democratic leaders to embrace Jan. 29 as the primary date.
They are defying DNC headquarters and daring it to follow through on its threat to disqualify electors selected in the primary and punish candidates who campaign there.

But the DNC is not backing down. The committee bought time with a statement late yesterday saying, “The DNC will enforce the rules as passed by its 447 members in Aug. 2006. Until the Florida State Democratic Party formally submits its plan and we’ve had the opportunity to review that submission, we will not speculate further.”

Dean does not, in any case, have the power to waive party rules, a DNC spokeswoman said. The entire committee would have to vote again to do that.
------------------

Carol Fowler, chairwoman of the South Carolina Democratic Party, said she won’t move that state’s primary, scheduled for Feb. 2, unless the national committee allows her.

“I’m going to do what the DNC tells me to,” Fowler said. “I’m not willing to violate the rules. The penalties are too stiff.”
.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/florida-dems-defy-dean-on-primary-date-2007-06-12.html

DNC Moves to Stop Primary Frontloading
The Democratic National Committee moved over the weekend to penalize Florida for moving up its primary date to Jan. 29 -- a violation of DNC rules that prohibit states from holding nominating polls before Feb. 5.
The committee said the Sunshine State would be stripped of its delegation at the party's National Convention in 2008 if the state does not reschedule its primary in the next 30 days.

As the nation's fourth-most-populous state, Florida has 210 delegates and has played a major role in recent presidential elections. Florida's decision to advance its primary follows the increasing trend of states pushing up their contests in order to gain relevance in the election.

"Rules are rules. California abided by them, and Florida should, as well. To ignore them would open the door to chaos," said Garry Shays, a DNC member from California. California -- with its 441 delegates -- moved its primary to Feb. 5, along with more than a dozen other states.
-----------------------------------------

The DNC's move may have repercussions beyond Florida as other state legislatures consider disregarding the Feb. 5 cutoff. Last week, Michigan's state Senate voted to hold its primary on Jan. 15. The state's House is expected to approve the earlier date as well.

The DNC gave Florida the option of holding a Jan. 29 contest but with nonbinding results, and the delegates would be awarded at a later official date.

Florida Democratic Committee Chairwoman Karen Thurman said this option would be expensive -- as much as $8 million -- and potentially undoable. Another option would be to challenge the ruling in court.

"We do represent, standing here, a lot of Democrats in the state of Florida -- over 4 million," Thurman said, according to the New York Times. "This is emotional for Florida. And it should be."
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/politics/july-dec07/florida_08-27.html

Published: Monday, September 24, 2007
Florida defies Dems, moves up primary
Associated Press

PEMBROKE PINES, Fla. — The Florida Democratic Party is sticking to its primary date — and it printed bumper stickers to prove it.

State party leaders formally announced Sunday their plans to move ahead with a Jan. 29 primary, despite the national leadership's threatened sanctions.

The Democratic National Committee has said it will strip the Sunshine State of its 210 nominating convention delegates if it doesn't abide by the party-set calendar, which forbids most states from holding primary contests before Feb. 5. The exceptions are Iowa on Jan. 14, Nevada on Jan. 19, New Hampshire on Jan. 22 and South Carolina on Jan. 29.
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20070924/NEWS02/709240045/-1/

Michigan defies parties, moves up primary date
JAN. 15 DECISION COULD SET OFF STAMPEDE OF STATES
By Stephen Ohlemacher
Associated Press
Article Launched: 09/05/2007 01:34:57 AM PDT

WASHINGTON - Michigan officially crashed the early primary party Tuesday, setting up showdowns with both political parties and likely pushing the presidential nomination calendar closer to 2007.

Gov. Jennifer Granholm signed a bill moving both of Michigan's presidential primaries to Jan. 15. Michigan's move threatens to set off a chain reaction that could force Iowa and New Hampshire to reschedule their contests even earlier than anticipated, perhaps in the first week in January 2008 or even December 2007.
-------------------------------------------
The national parties have tried to impose discipline on the rogue states. On the Republican side, states that schedule contests before Feb. 5 risk losing half their delegates to next summer's convention, though some are banking that whoever wins the GOP nomination will eventually restore the delegates.

Democrats have experienced similar problems, but party officials hoped they had stopped the mad dash to move up by threatening to strip Florida of all its convention delegates for scheduling a primary Jan. 29 and by persuading the major Democratic candidates to campaign only in the party-approved early states.

Michigan, in moving up its primary, faces a similar penalty from the Democratic National Committee.
-----------------------------------------------------

The decision by the major Democratic candidates to campaign only in approved early states renders voting in the rogue states essentially non-binding beauty contests.

But Former Michigan Gov. James Blanchard, co-chairman of Hillary Clinton's Michigan campaign, told the Associated Press on Tuesday that the pledge allows candidates' spouses to campaign in the state, allows the candidates to speak to groups of 200 or fewer and permits fundraising.
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_6804685?source=rss

Editorial: Follow DNC rules on seating delegates
February 25, 2008
By Editorial Board

Senator Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) has suggested seating the Michigan and Florida delegates at the Democratic National Convention, even though the Democratic National Committee (DNC) stripped them of their status. The DNC originally set itself up for trouble by denying these influential states a place at the convention as punishment for scheduling their primaries too early in the year. However, the fact remains that, since each and every Democratic presidential candidate pledged not to campaign in these states and to abide by the DNC’s decision, these delegates should not be seated at the convention.

On September 1, the campaigns of Clinton and Senator Barack Obama (D-Ill.) issued press releases stating that they had signed pledges affirming the DNC’s decision to approve certain representative states and sanction others for moving their nominating contests earlier. But now that the race is close, Clinton — whose top advisor Harold Ickes voted as a member of the DNC to strip Florida and Michigan of their delegates — is pushing for the delegates to be seated.

Her argument is that not doing so disenfranchises the 1.7 million Florida Democrats who voted and that her pledge promised only that she wouldn’t campaign in the states, not that she wouldn’t try to seat the delegates. However, the results of the contests in Florida and Michigan are not necessarily representative of the voters’ preferences in those states. Given that most of the candidates removed their names from the Michigan ballot, and that many voters stayed home from the vote in Florida with the understanding that their contest would not affect the final delegate count, the delegate totals that the candidates accumulated in these states may not accurately reflect the will of the voters. Had there been no restrictions in Michigan and Florida, the turnout, and thus the results, may have been different.

The Four State Pledge all candidates signed on Aug. 28 stated, “Whereas, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee will strip states of 100% of their delegates and super delegates to the DNC National Convention if they violate the nomination calendar... Therefore, I ____________, Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules ...pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window.” When the candidates pledged to campaign only in approved states, they were also agreeing to the terms listed above, which explicitly mentioned stripping noncompliant states of their entire delegation.

As it has become clear that the delegate race will be very close, politicians in the Democratic party are discussing the implications of the DNC pledge, and whether it would be wise to seat the delegates after all, rather than risk offending these important states that could be influential in the November election.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) recently said that the Florida and Michigan delegates should not be seated if they would decide the nomination. Other compromise proposals include holding new nominating contests in these states, but such contests would be expensive and cumbersome. The irony is that had Florida and Michigan not moved up their primaries, they would have voted in February and March, when they would have been even more important than in earlier months in determining the Democratic nominee — and would not have created an enormous controversy that has the potential to divide the party.
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2008/2/25/editorialFollowDncRulesOnSeatingDelegates

[workinclasszero]

131. Why don't you blame the dem party leaders in Michigan?

They and they ALONE are responsible.

If any blue class worker in Michigan is so damn dumb to vote for McCain as the savior of the middle class, they deserve all thats coming to them! How can you prevent idiots from commiting class suide??

That makes as much sense as the blue collar workers in Ohio and Pennsylvania voting for the head NAFTA cheerleader, Hillary.

Yeah people, Hillary Clinton a leader of the neocon, pro big business, pro-free trade, pro war, DLC is gonna bring back all those high wage and benefits jobs!:rofl:

[LittleClarkie]

135. Wasn't it already a battleground state?

I thought Michigan was a lot like Ohio and Wisconsin that way.

[zulchzulu]

137. So the Michigan Democratic leaders don't like RULES?

Somehow it's OK for Michigan Democratic leaders to ignore the RULES and you blame someone who FOLLOWED THE RULES.

Nice job. Now, put down the crack pipe.

:crazy:

[EFerrari]

149. It's even worse than that. Hillary shows up in Michigan

and presents a list of people willing to fund the revote and the MI legislature freaks because it looks like she's trying to buy an election so they back off of the revote.

Edit: So, not only is this not Obama's fault, it's partly CLINTON'S own fault for trying to throw her weight around.

[shraby]

138. Hillary has been pushing a dead issue. She wants

to count the votes she got on a lopsided ticket. She is the one who made it an issue when it was decided that the state doesn't count because of trying to move the primary forward. She is the one who is trying to break the rules. She thinks she can win with them when in actuality she is too far behind for the state to help her.

[rniel]

140. Well

I'm going to have a softball game at my house and the winner takes home a cash prize. Then the organizers call you and tell you nevermind the game is cancelled. I am the only one who shows up and take the cash home, then call you up and brag about how I beat you so easily. Then I say it's all your fault because you chose to not show up.

[Blarch]

144. Ummmmm...

Hillary CAN'T win unless the supers go against the votes of the people.....Yet she wants all the votes counted ?

What a hypocrite.

[Eurobabe]

145. Goodbye Tyler, see you after the nomination.

:hi:

[DemVet]

146. Maybe, but Obama could have called "bullshit" and demanded a primary.

The DNC would have given in to Saint Obama.