This is why Republicans win elections!

[WVRevy]

This...all this crap in this forum from people deriding Obama for giving what is being WIDELY considered one of the best and most important speeches on race relations in this country in the past 30 years. People saying things like "He threw his grandmother under the bus" and "he still supports Wright" are the exact same people that the Repugs are targeting with smear attacks like the swift boating of John Kerry.

Obama took the stage yesterday with faith that Americans are smart enough and adult enough to be able to look at an extremely complex and nuanced issue and see that any solutions offered are going to have to be equally complex. He took the stage and decided to treat us like ADULTS for once, instead of repeating any campaign slogans often enough that it would sink through thick skulls and reach people that can't be bothered with more than sound bytes. He showed faith in US, as Americans, to understand how he could disagree vehemently with Reverend Wright, but still see the good in the man and everything he has done in his life.

But with an awful lot of people here, it seems that faith was misplaced. With an awful lot of people here - and on Repug sites that Freepers frequent - it seems he'd have been better off pandering to their delecate - and obviously WHITE - sensibilities. He should have come out and torn down Wright as evil and not worth respect, regardless of any accomplishments he may have had. He should have just repeated over-and-over-and-over his condemnation of the MAN, rather than the words. That, I'm sure, some people would have been able to understand. Forget nuance...forget complexity...forget circumstance and context. Let's dumb it down as much as possible so Joe Six-pack won't have to actually THINK about anything.

Simply put, if we dumb down the argument - any argument, really - we lose. The Repugs have us beat six-ways-from Sunday when it comes to simply expressing their "solutions". The liberal argument is the intellectual argument 95% of the time, and it takes more than a paragraph - or a sound byte - to make that argument. You can't argue "Choice" without using reason against emotion. You can't argue "equality for all" without using logic to combat fear. And you sure as hell can't argue "Race" without talking about how things need to change on ALL sides of the equation. The Repugs can't make those arguments. They just CAN'T. When it comes to specifics, their argument almost always falls apart.

But here, on this very board, we have any number of people that seem to be arguing for running on the Repug's terms. Obama gives perhaps the most impressive political speech of my lifetime (stretching back to the VERY early 70's), and all people can come up with are slams about throwing his grandmother under the bus and more slams for not throwing Wright - a family friend and someone he has a 20 year relationship with - far ENOUGH under.

I'm honestly starting to think whoever said "We get the government we deserve," was absolutely right...And I'm not sure this country DESERVES the president Barack Obama could be.

[Drachasor]

1. Honestly, if that speech fails to makee any difference in this election

then I think our country is in real trouble. It will show that we are incapable of having meaningful dialog on the national level. I am hopeful that is not the case, however.

[Prophet 451]

8. your country IS in real trouble

I'm hoping that speech was the first step to solving it. Made a convert outta me anyway.

[Drachasor]

29. touche'

I more meant that I wouldn't be able to foresee a solution if we aren't capable of talking about our problems.

[Yes We Did]

35. It's really just this board.

If you go to the other political blogs the tone is much different. It is just like this here because Hillary's shills are free to start thread after thread after thread.

The overwhelming opinion, other than on DU, is the same as yours and mine.

This speech was incredible and the people are getting it.

[Drachasor]

37. I hope so

I don't think I can really know until a week or so passes and we get some polling data on what blue collar whites and others think of it. I tried looking for some sort of forum that would cater to them, but I didn't find one last night. I don't feel I can say how they will react as a whole and that's a pretty important group that Obama was speaking to -- I say that because groups that already like and support Obama will be more opening to listening to him. I can only hope groups that weren't big fans will still listen and be moved by that speech -- moved positively to talk and act and look at our problems.

[FrenchieCat]

2. That's why it can be believed that Hillary supporters will do anything

to win.....including not wanting to deal with racism in America in any serious way because it doesn't serve their candidate.

I find it shameful, and I will never forget this. Never.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

9. How can you blame Hillary for this??? Is she a magician who turns people into racists?

I would say the majority of Clinton supporters thought that was a great speech. They might not have switched over to Obama as a result of the speech but they appreciated it.

[WVRevy]

23. Look at this board!

Yes, there are many Clinton supporters commenting on the speech in a positive way. But there are many MORE that are slamming it for the things I mentioned in the OP.

[K Gardner]

39. I totally agree with you. The # of "ignoreds" on this thread prove it. They are

acting/talking/behaving/thinking like Republicans.. and so is Hillary. They all belong under the bus.

[PoliticalAmazon]

38. Her racial divisiveness triggers racist reactions

The racial divisiveness is being done to divide American voters into groups that she believes she can win.

From Bill Clinton's comments to her own statements, the Clinton campaign is trying to fan the flames of racism.

These subtle messages are powerful because they take root in the mind and grow.

[Exilednight]

3. rethugs win by using the divide an conquer strategy. Pick an issue, divide your opponent........

and pivot your man to look strong. We allow them to frame the debate with bumper-sticker slogans, pick the language to use, and dumb down the public to the point of no opinion.

They're also better an organizing and putting everyone on the same page. Our party lacks this ability and refuses to fight head on. It also helps that they have MSM on their side, and then frame moderate voices as left wing talking heads.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

5. BINGO FOR YOU

[BlooInBloo]

12. Republicans have NOTHING to do with this. This just Democrats hating Democrats, nothing more....

.... For whatever reasons they care to make up.

[PoliticalAmazon]

15. Hillary Clinton uses the same Rovian tactic

I can't understand how Clinton's supporters can stand to support her, especially with her racially divisive tactics. She's Bush Jr all over again. Didn't they get enough of Bush Jr over the last 8 years?

[Horse with no Name]

4. It is widely considered to be an important speech

in the blogosphere and in the media.
Not so much anywhere else...I think I read that 66% of folks OUTSIDE of that realm did not think it was effective.

[XOKCowboy]

20. You can tell by how the right is reporting it..

They KNOW it was a monumental speech and showed Obama's strength. That's why they're trying to minimize it as a "get whitey" speech and now saying he "threw grandma under the bus". All to minimize it's impact and polarize their base. It's sickening that some here on DU are doing the same.

[galactical]

6. America will get the government it deserves.

I've been thinking about that for a few weeks now. I was really upset since the mississippi primaries and saw the direction this was all going in. But then I realized that i shouldn't be. If this is what america wants, then this is what america will get.

I mean, a guy who sung "bomb Iran" in tune to 'barbara ann' is ahead in the polls. Look at the news organizations and you can tell that everything is being set up for yet another war. People accuse Obama supporters of drinking kool aide, but obviously the vast majority of americans are behind a smokescreen.

[Window]

7. K/R.

:kick:

[XOKCowboy]

10. I agree on all points...

Why are we fighting ourselves when we should be concentrating on McCain being Bush with Alzheimers.

Please Hillary. Drop out now.

[greyghost]

13. She is approaching the tipping point, I'm hoping by June she will

have NO CHOICE in the matter.

[jgraz]

11. THIS is why Republicans win elections

[NYDem Observer]

18. LOL. You make a good point.

[WVRevy]

24. Funny...BUT

You can't deny that the last two elections have been close enough to allow them to steal them without much problem. The people that vote Repug - not conservatives, but Repugs - simply can't be bothered to consider complex issues in complex ways. If it's above a 6th grade level, they aren't interested.

[jgraz]

32. Yes, I can deny it

We have no idea how close a fair election would have been in 2004. There are many indications, including skewed exit polls and enormous (attempted) turnout that point to a decisive victory by Kerry.

[PoliticalAmazon]

14. GOP wins because of DNC's failing strategies

Just like the DNC/DLC stood by silent in 2004 when the people's choice, Howard Dean, was attacked, so they are standing silent now.

Same reason, too: the people's choice was getting in the way of their hand-picked loser candidate.

In 2004, it was Kerry; in 2008, it's Hillary Clinton.

In both cases, Dem rank-and-filers will not support these candidates in numbers sufficient to secure the election.

The DNC also will not stand up for our votes. In 2000 and 2004, massive vote fraud occurred, but they refused to stand up for our votes. Remember that the next time they tell you how important your votes are to them.

So, in 2004 the GOP got Bush Jr shoved back into the Oval Office and, once again, Democrats got shafted: by the GOP and by their own DNC.

[Rex_Goodheart]

16. Obama didn't adequately justify why he spent 20 years

in that church listening to vile crap. Yes, I'm an adult, and I deserved an explanation.

[susankh4]

22. Thank you.

I feel the same way.

[WVRevy]

26. If you were an adult, you'd have noticed that he DID

Black churches are notorious for "preaching a social gospel". Yes, sometimes that means saying things that middle class white people might not approve of. Does that mean that everything else that church does is bad? Does someone holding an opinion you disagree with - even STRONGLY disagree with - mean that you can no longer associate yourself with that person? Isn't Reverand Wright as responsible for "the Audacity of Hope" as he is for "God DAMN America?"

Listen to EVERYTHING he said, rather than reading a recap. What you're looking for is there, if you aren't too blind to see it.

[gcomeau]

30. Ahem.

I'm aware of about 45 seconds worth of "vile crap". Are you suggesting it was being run on a loop for 20 years in the church?

He didn't spend 20 years in the church listening to the 2 or 3 short statements that Fox news was able dig out of hours, and hours, and hours of footage of sermons. You're demanding he explain something he never did.

[redqueen]

17. Oh yeah, fer sure. Nothing to do with dirty tricks

or having the M$M in your pocket

[WVRevy]

28. Dirty tricks and lies...

...don't work on an informed populace. If you're stupid enough to fall for them, then that's on you as much as it is them. Particularly if it's not the first time they've pulled the same tricks.

[redqueen]

31. Yeah, they don't work on an informed populace. Sadly, we don't have one of those.

[Window]

19. Agree 100%.

I've been saying the same thing for a while now. We really do get the government we deserve, and no, America does not deserve Barack Obama. He must really love America to put up with this shit. He's a better man than most.



Peace:thumbsup:

[Rex_Goodheart]

21. Republicans win elections because they're more pragmatic

Democrats are more idealist.

While Democrats were screwing up a wet dream by making two unelectable candidates its frontrunners, the Republicans were settling on the least of their evil possibilities.

[WVRevy]

33. John Kerry was ideal? I doubt that.

We tried that "pragmatic" approach last time and put up the guy everybody thought was the most electable. How'd that work out again?

No. Republicans win because they use "Debate for Dummies" instead of facing reality. It's not about idealism...it's about realizing that problems aren't solved by campaign slogans (that they don't even live up to), and they won't be solved by someone that can't make a decision without taking a poll on it first. It takes a LEADER to solve big problems. No matter how much debatable experience Hillary or McCain claim to have, NEITHER of them are anything more than politicians. Barack may be a politician...but he has more to offer than polls and campaign slogans.

[mudesi]

25. They're called Clinton loyalists, and they support the status quo

It's quite predictable, actually.

[tabasco]

36. Some people think Hillary represents change because she would be the first female President.

It couldn't be farther from the truth.

Hillary and Bill are bought by the same people who control McCain.

Obama is the only hope for people who want this country to get better.

[mjjacobs]

27. yes....regarding Obama's speech yesterday..... I agree with

the following point entirely.
>>Obama took the stage yesterday with faith that Americans are smart enough and adult enough to be able to look at an extremely complex and nuanced issue and see that any solutions offered are going to have to be equally complex.<<

But remember this is the same electorate that put Bush in office for two terms. The great majority rely on the MSM for the translation. His nuance went right over the heads of most. You, like Obama, have over estimated the ability of people to decipher.

[Perry Logan]

34. I think they win elections because they cheat.

[Vinca]

40. Republicans win a whole lot of elections because of the voting

machines. Republicans own the voting machine companies. The "nice man from Diebold" is always available to help the poll workers. If Democrats happen to win it's only because the programmer wasn't aggressive enough.