I Still Think A Unity Ticket Is Our Only Way Out Of This Dilemma

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Both candidates have built strong coalitions but many members of their coalitions are increasingly displaying a unwillingness to vote for the other...

United we stand...Divided we fall...


Please discuss intelligently and civilly...

[goldcanyonaz]

1. I'm a die hard Clinton supporter, but have been very vocal in support of a unity ticket.

[krawhitham]

35. It is best for the party

It does not matter the hate each other at this point

You do what is best for the Party and the Country

[surfermaw]

75. I am in supprt and was before all the (tihs ) hit the fan

I atually like both of them ,and Biden, Edwards, Richardson, Dennis and the list goes on, we need them in the administration , unless it would take a seat from the houses.

[LisaM]

2. I am in favor of a combined ticket, too

I'd prefer Clinton at the top of it, of course, but could handle it the other way.

[Road Scholar]

68. But either way, wouldn't Bill's presence make it into an

ongoing train wreck?

[gateley]

3. You have a valid point

about many being unwilling to vote for "the other" if s/he were to become the nom (:eyes:) but I just don't see the two of them coming together on this.

[truebrit71]

4. Nope.

Fuck Hillary.

Civility my ass.

After everything that broad has done?

Not bloody likely.

I am DONE being nice with her and her lemming-like supporters here or anywhere...

If that woman appears ANYWHERE on the ticket bush gets a third term...it's that simple...

[goldcanyonaz]

5. Wow, such a unifying post.

:rofl:

[Bluebear]

24. "Fuck Hillary. After everything that broad has done?" Wow.

[DrFunkenstein]

27. As an Obama Supporter, I Can't Let That Stand

Please don't ever use that language - or tone - again. Whatever your own feelings may be, this ain't the place for that kind of talk.

[Auntie Bush]

42. You should have posted this replay to Post #4...not #24.

# 24 quoted #4.

[truebrit71]

72. Mom, is that you? No....?

...then go Cheney yourself...How DARE you tell me how to express myself?

[newcriminal]

6. I think it would be the best thing for the party, but

I don't believe it will happen. I don't think he would agree to be her vp, and I don't think he would ask her to be his vp.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

80. He'd be smart not too. I know too many Obama supporters who would walk or vote Nader.

[countingbluecars]

7. Clinton would not stand a chance

without Obama on the ticket. Obama would be fine with someone else. IMHO.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. Is That Why He's Beating McCain So Handily In The Polls?

~

[movonne]

12. He will beat mc cain in the GE...and maybe hillary could too...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. I Think It's A Lot More Problematic With A Deeply Divided Party

The last time the party was so divided, imho, was 1968 or 1972...

[democrattotheend]

9. You may be right

Especially after yesterday's speech, I have so much faith in Barack Obama, but I am afraid the country is just not ready yet. Maybe being VP would be the best option for him, depending on how the rest of the primaries go. I don't want him to get the nomination and go down in the general and never get another chance.

In exchange for Obama agreeing to be VP despite being ahead in delegates, though, Clinton has to agree in front of the party leadership if not publicly that she will not run again in 4 years if she loses. That seems more than fair, given that Obama is ahead in delegates and votes.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. I Think If Either Gets The Nom And Lose They Are Finished

Last person to lose the nom and come back and win the presidency was Nixon...

There aren't many second acts...

[movonne]

13. I really don't think you are an Obama supporter....put your hillary

face there...

[democrattotheend]

23. You've got to be kidding me

Read what I wrote on my blog today: http://purplestatepundit.com/blog/election08/president-obama-a-dream-worth-fighting-for/

I spent a total of 16 hours on a bus to canvass for Obama in Ohio. I am going home this weekend to register voters in Philly. I have donated at least 4 times and made hundreds of phone calls.

I want Obama to be president more than anything, but I am afraid America might not be ready. I'd rather him have another chance later than go down this year and never have another chance. That does not mean I am giving up...I hope and pray that he can bounce back after this controversy, but I don't want him to get the nomination in such a weakened position (after losing most of the later primaries) that he can't win the general.

[brazos121200]

32. A unity ticket might be possible also if whichever one is

at the top of the ticket will agree to bow out after four years win or lose, and let the number two run for the nomination at that time.

[OzarkDem]

11. Agree

with the most qualified candidate at the top of the ticket.

Not likely you will see Obama or his supporters go for this scenario.

[tabasco]

14. Not gonna happen after the filthy "kitchen sink" smear campaign.

Obama has the leadership ability to bring us together to win and to prevent more republican destruction.

[JimGinPA]

15. At This Point It's Obvious That HRC Is Trying To Force Herself Onto His Ticket...

Luckily he's smart enough to see what a drag she would be.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. He's Doing So Great Without Her

~

[JimGinPA]

21. Watch How Fast The Polls Swing To Obama When She's Finally Dragged Out Of The Picture

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. Her Supporters Which Represent Approximately Half The Party Will Be Only Be More Disapponited

To learn more about how a divided Democrat party does read up about the elections of 68 and 72... In fact the party never get back many of the voters...

[JimGinPA]

31. If HRC's Supporters Are Okay With McSame Staying In Iraq 100 Years & Loading The Supreme Court...

With "right to life" judges I guess they'll have to vote their conscience. Obama will be the nominee for the Democrats.

[Skidmore]

38. Do they represent half of the Democratic Party? Even the ones

that voted for her because Limbaugh told them to?

[tishaLA]

18. I didn't think so before

but I do now. If Hillary is not at the top of the ticket, I am afraid we will lose working class whites in droves. If Obama is not at the top of the ticket, I am afraid we will lose the youth vote, which is turning out like never before, and a significant number of African American voters. If we unite, we can keep those losses at a minimum.

I'm not happy about the prospect at this point, but by September I will be that ticket's most ardent supporter.

[goldcanyonaz]

28. Me too. You took the words right off my fingers with your post.

[leftstreet]

19. Obama can't run on "hope" and "change" with HRC on the ticket

Impossible

[goletian]

20. Obama doesnt need Hillary to win the presidency. No thanks.

dont get confused, people. hillary needs obama, not the other way around. i think either could beat mccain, but hillary has put herself in the weakest position to fight that battle. its doubtful obama would consider the ticket, but if any such thing should happen, you can bet hillary will be on the bottom.

[surfermaw]

76. Obama needs Hillary more than she needs him,

Hillary is the best thing to help Obama, and to pick Bill's brain would be more valuable to Obama than Harvard. After all Bill Clinton comes in number 5 when ask who are the 5 best Presidents of all time. The only democrats now that bash BillClinton are the Obama's, and you are loosing votes for Obama, believe me I know what I am speaking of, I am a died in the wool democrat and will vote the ticket whom ever, but at times you Obamas, when you thought he was going to stomp Edwards and Hillary made me so angry on ocassions I even considered voting agains or staying at home, of course then when I had time to think about another 8 years of republican rule, I changed my mind, so see don't get angry at me, I am trying to tell the truth of my many years in the political field, as a consultants daughter and other experiences...don't bash hillary or Obama, just discuss.

[Tribetime]

22. agreed the only thing I want is a democratic President

I think putting both on the same ticket would be an unbeatable combination. Although Clintons attacks have angored me, it proves to me she would get down and dirty, fight back with the vigor we'll need in the fall. Kinda like good cop/ bad cop

[goldcanyonaz]

26. Haha, love the good cop/bad cop analogy.

:thumbsup:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. HRC Would Be Kicking The Right Wing's Royal Ass For Dissing Obama On The Wright Thing

~

[backscatter712]

30. No. She is not an acceptable running mate.

After her swiftboating, her race-baiting, and other Rovian tactics, I will not accept her as a candidate for President or Vice President.

Even without considering that putting her on the ticket would reward her bad behavior, it's clear that putting her, and her advisers Penn and Wolfson on Obama's team would have the Obama campaign running like it was dragging an anchor. No. Obama should go to November unfettered by her incompetence.

She needs to be pushed to the sidelines. She needs to go to the penalty box. She needs to stand in the corner and have a timeout.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. Then Lose The Election And Have A Antebellum Supreme Court

He's bleeding white working class support...

You can't put together an electoral plurality or majority with young voters, African American voters, and folks earning over one hundred thousand dollars per year...

[Zenlitened]

34. I agree. They'd make a great ticket.

Let the haters, true believers and other useful idiots fustigate all they want, but the fact is both our Dem candidates have a lot to offer. Together they'd be dynamite.

[knixphan]

36. When Edwards returns

Unity will be re-defined. That's my guess.

[Exilednight]

37. Who ever is at the top of the ticket, it's still a horrible ideal........

Neither candidate brings something to the table for the other. If it's Hillary, the AA community will still vote for her, if it's Obama, women will vote for him The only thing Hillary will lose is the far left wing of the party and most voters under the age of 30.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. Hillary Needs The Traditional 87% + Of The African American Vote To Win*

Anything lower and it becomes problematic....


*And a high turnout...

[Exilednight]

41. She can get the 87% of voters, the question is - what will the turnout be.......

She will not get a high turnout without Obama.

Let's be honest, she needs Obama, but Obama doesn't need her. He needs someone who can deliver at least 10-15% of southern white males, and Hillary doesn't do that. Obama, with the right running mate, could take Mississippi, Georgia and Louisiana, all southern states with high African-American populations, but not enough to carry the state by themselves.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. He's Losing The States You Cited By Thirteen To Fifteen Points

http://www.surveyusa.com/index.php/2008/03/06/electoral-math-as-of-030608-obama-280-mccain-258/


If a Democrat is carrying Mississippi he or she is on the way to winning forty five state...It hasn't gone blue in a generation...

[Exilednight]

44. Exactly, and that's the point I'm getting at. If he can carry 10% of white southern males........

that's ten percent out of McCains vote and a plus 10% in Obama's vote. 10% of voter shift translates to 20% in the polls.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. He Needs 30% Of The White Vote In Mississippi

John Kerry got 18% of the white vote... That means Obama has to get 60% more of the white vote than John Kerry:


http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004//pages/results/states/MS/P/00/epolls.0.html

[Exilednight]

48. but it comes down to turnout. If the primaries are any indication, then Obama will have nearly.....

double the turnout of AA voters in the GE in Mississippi.

Mississippi has an African American population that is three times the national average.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

53. African Americans Make Up Thirty Seven Percent Of Mississippians

For my analysis I assume they represent thirty seven percent of voters and that ninety percent of them vote for Obama... He starts with 33% of the vote... That's generous...That leaves sixty three percent of the electorate that is white...He needs approximately thirty percent of them... That would be sixty percent more than what John Kerry received...

[Exilednight]

55. The AA community is around 37%, but the actual voter turnout of Mississippi........

is fairly low.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I did the math once. If Obama can turn out more than 80% of eligible African American voters, win the same amount of female voters that Kerry did, and turn 10% of the white male vote, he could turn Mississippi. Obama will also win the vote of those under 30, which just may be enough to turn it. The two areas where Obama is winning by huge numbers is the African American vote and the under 30 vote.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

57. Respectfully Your Math Is Wrong...

Thirty seven percent of Mississipians are black... I am assuming every black person votes and ninety percent of them vote for Obama...That's thirty three percent... He still needs thirty percent of white votes... Where you're getting lost is by thinking he only needs ten percent more white votes than Kerry ... To go from 18% to 30% is not an increase of 12% but an increase of sixty seven percent....

There's a reason the Dems get swept in Dixie... It's not because there are too few African American votes but there's not enough white ones... You can only squeeze so much water out of a stone...

[Exilednight]

58. If I can find the numbers I will message them to you. My math may be wrong, but I'll double check.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

61. Your Math Is Right... You Just Missed A Step....

Where you're getting hung up is that you think to go from 18% to 28% is an increase of ten percent but it's really an increase of 56%...

[Mike03]

40. A Unity Ticket would be fine with me.

It's a great idea. I don't really understand the resistance to such an idea.

Having said that, I'm not sure it's our "only hope." Why would that be? I'm not convinced that either Obama or Clinton could not beat McCain.

[SammyWinstonJack]

45. We are doomed! I like Hillary more than Obama and I can't stand him.

Not so intelligent but there you have it. :shrug:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

73. I Don't Mind Obama... He's A Politician Albeit A Seemingly Well Intentioned But Conflicted One

~

[Johnny__Motown]

46. Any woman as VP for Obama would be enough to placate Hillary's supporters

[DemocratSinceBirth]

69. Working Class Whites And Latinos Are Not Voting For Her Because She's A Woman

They are voting for her because they think she gets them and can get things done...

[David Zephyr]

49. Too late. Obama could have chosen her before Ohio & Texas. Not now.

I was a champion of that unity ticket. It was a possibility before Hillary's impossible march began before Texas and Ohio. That's when the unity would have meant something, when standing against McCain would have made a difference.

Her taking this nonsense out and out when she can't win in any noble sense has robbed the Democratic Party of any chance of unifying early with a unity ticket.

We're divided now. And actually, I've come to see some silver lining in her destructive ambition: she would have never been a team player with Obama and Obama will not be beholden to Mark Penn and Terry McAuliffe and all the holdovers from her campaign.

Obama gets to pick his own VP and it will not be Hillary.

Hillary brought this all on herself. She missed her golden moment.

She's really in a box now. She can't win and really has no graceful "out" anymore.

We're going to go through all the bloody primaries just as she demanded and then she will be so discredited that there will be little wonder why Barack passes her over to pick a better VP. He'll pick someone that opposed the war like he did to keep his message clean.

It's too late.

[SammyWinstonJack]

50. Nice guy, eh?

:evilgrin:

[David Zephyr]

65. Obama picks Senator Boxer and the Convention will go wild with joy.

You are where I was one month ago when I was calling for a unity ticket here.

I wish it could have been when it was possible. It isn't anymore.

And the loser will be Hillary.

What on earth will Pennsylvania prove to anyone? Even if she wins by 60 points (which she won't), it won't change anything. Obama has 750,000 more popular votes and will take all the remaining western states and North Carolina, too.

Do you honestly think that there will not be anger against her for dragging this nonsense clear out until this summer, for wasting tens of millions of precisous funds for a contest that is already determined? We could have had unity, DSB. She killed it for her ambition.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

67. Barbara Boxer

Hillary Clinton has built a durbale coalition of working class white, Latino, female, and older voters that represent about half the party...They will be profoundly disappointed if she is not on the ticket...More than a few will stay home and more than a few will vote for McCain as they voted for Bush* and Reagan...

Substituting Boxer for Clinton because she's a female reminds me of my friend who back in the day (early seventies)went to buy a used Bug but they didn't have any on the lot so the salesperson tried to sell him a Toyota... How do you think that worked out?

A bird with only one wing can not fly...

[Lucky 13]

79. He's not a "NICE GUY" because he doesn't offer Hillary the VP Slot?

If we are going to accuse one of the two of them of not being nice... Hillary's our girl.

:puke:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. I'll Try To Respond As A Democrat

He's bleeding white, working class support*... Last Democrat to bleed as much white working class support was George McGovern...

Barack Obama can not win without Hillary Clinton's white working class, Latino, and older voter support...All of those groups have displayed a willingness to vote for Republicans in the past....

The problem with folks on the left and the right is they only talk to folks who think like themselves, get their own views shouted back at them, and consequently think everybody thinks like them...Get out of Cambridge and talk to folks in Orlando, Scranton, Toledo, Grand Rapids, and see if they share your world view and your devotion to Senator Obama...America is not the nation you think it is...



*If you want I will provide empirical data to support my assertion...

[Flabbergasted]

59. I'd be surprised if Clinton and Obama haven't discussed this issue

between themselves. I think it's entirely plausible that Obama and Clinton may have discussed the pros and cons of such an arrangement in an extremely defensive manner.

However it would have been difficult to arrive at a consensus under these circumstances because of all the variables involved.

[wrando]

52. they have my vote

but then again so does either of them separately

but to beat the repubs it might be the only way

lotta bad blood

Bill from ct

[DevonRex]

54. Nope.

Unless he sends her on lots and lots of overseas gigs to keep her out of his hair. I'm completely disillusioned with her now.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

60. nope because Obama is a liability now

[DemocratSinceBirth]

62. But To Deny Him A Place On The Ticket Will Blow Up The Party

African Americans have been the most loyal constituency... To disrespect them is a recipe for disaster...

[ElsewheresDaughter]

63. He's a lawyer make him AG or sent him up for Supreme Court Justice

[DemocratSinceBirth]

64. I Don't Think That Will Fly

The Dems need to unite these two coalitions ...

Maybe things will get so bad any Dem can win... But I think in times of stress most folks freeze and go for the "safe" choice and that will be Grand Pa...

[JTFrog]

70. Riiiiight. Only in HillaryWorld.

[Flabbergasted]

56. I go back and forth on this....

As much as I like the idea of a clean break from the B.C.B.C. dynasty there is a valid argument in a unity ticket. However it really is a question of who's on top. And really this is the most valid question.

Neither scenario makes a whole lot of sense. Clinton undercuts Barack as VP and seems to be a step back for her while Barack is leading in his pursuit of the nomination.

At this point we need to wait for PN to see how things are going. I don't think waiting through May is such a bad thing as well. If necessary we will go to the convention but I believe by then we will have more obvious solutions.

Also I think the fact that Obama has come out on top of this extremely contentious Wright issue is an indication that he will dominate through the rest of the primaries.

I don't see much else coming his way that is really going to dent his momentum.

Unity ticket? It depends on who seems more viable and who has the momentum after May.

[susankh4]

66. Agree.

Totally.

Always have.

[catgirl]

71. Yes the unity ticket of Hillary and Bill

they can go rule Mars.

[BeyondGeography]

74. Your heart's in the right place

We'll see what happens.

[davidpdx]

77. I don't think a unity ticket is possible

Clinton wouldn't accept the VP nod if (and I did say if) she lost the nomination. The other possibility would be Clinton/Obama which something huge would have to happen and Obama's campaign would have to implode and/or Clinton would need to start winning primaries in addition to Pennsylvania and by huge margins. The whole Wright controversy isn't going to cause that, as much as Clinton supporters hope it will.

[tomreedtoon]

78. I think it's a struggle for the Democratic soul. If it exists.

The conflict between Clinton and Obama is a struggle for the meaning of being a Democrat. Clinton represents everything that's been done by Democrats in the last sixteen years. Obama represents a change from that.

A "unity ticket" would be like a "unity election" with Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis being on the same bill. They are too radically different to be combined.