KO and Chuck Todd Misrepresent Hillary's Statement About Michigan: Media Matters Where Are You?

[McCamy Taylor]

On Countdown moments ago, increasingly partisan Keith Olbermann and always partisan hack Chuck Todd deliberately misrepresented remarks that Hillary Clinton made last fall that were reported in the Washington Post. They read a small excerpt from the article and interpreted that quote as meaning that Hillary stayed on the ballot last fall, because she felt that the Michigan vote was essential if she was going to win the Democratic primary.

Here is what the article and Hillary really said in the article.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/11/AR2007101100859.html

"It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything," Clinton said Thursday during an interview on New Hampshire Public Radio's call-in program, "The Exchange." "But I just personally did not want to set up a situation where the Republicans are going to be campaigning between now and whenever, and then after the nomination, we have to go in and repair the damage to be ready to win Michigan in 2008."

Speaking in the first primary state, Clinton said she understands concerns about her refusal. Rivals Barack Obama, John Edwards, Bill Richardson and Joe Biden took their names off Michigan's Jan. 15 primary ballot this week, and Michigan's hope for nominating clout all but evaporated.

Clinton's comment reflects an optimism she will win her party's nomination to face the Republican nominee in November 2008. She said any snub to Michigan could hurt her _ and all Democrats' _ chances to defeat the Republicans there.

Clinton was prompted by a caller who said, "It strikes me that this is politics as usual, where politicians say one thing and do something else."

Clinton brushed aside the comment.

"I did not believe it was fair to just say, 'Goodbye Michigan' and not take into account the fact we're going to have to win Michigan if we're going to be in the White House in January 2009," she said.

Rather than attacking Clinton as an opportunist, maybe KO should applaud her for having the foresight to think about the Party's chances in the fall. In the state of Michigan, one theory is that Obama, Edwards, Biden and Richardson dropped from the Mi ballot in order to court Iowa voters who were anngry at Iowa's early primary. Sen. Dodd did not drop off the Mi. ballot and has given as his reason the same explanation that Hillary gave the WaPo---he did not want to alienate Mi voters from the Democratic Party. Sen. Dodd never expected to win the nomination. He is simply someone who shows good sense.

KO and Todd lied when they omitted the line which I have highlighted in bold from their description of the WaPo article. It completely changes the meaning of that interview, showing that Hillary was concerned about the Democrats' eventual fall victory over the Republicans, not her own nomination

Media Matters never ever reports on KO's distortions, but this time I wish that they would.

Addendum, the rest of the article is recommended for those who insist that the ruled were "No Dems on the ballot"

The Democratic presidential candidates already had pledged not to campaign in Michigan because the state had broken Democratic National Committee rules by scheduling its primary ahead of Feb. 5. The rules ban states from holding their 2008 contests before Feb. 5, except Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina.

The candidates are allowed to visit Michigan to raise money and can send their spouses to campaign, but they can't run advertisements, hold rallies or do most of the other things that would help give them a leg up on their opponents.

[high density]

1. Olbermann and Todd did no such thing

You haven't understood the difference in meaning of those two comments. One says the primary election is not going to count for anything and the other one says we need to remember Michigan for the general election. She's obviously talking about two different time frames here.

[slinkerwink]

4. exactly. KO and Todd were right

[sallyseven]

83. They lied and I have noticed that KO

has been sliming Hillary at every opportunity. He has resorted to distorting everything she says. Of course that won't help Obama because they will switch to McCain in the General. Get real folks.

[McCamy Taylor]

5. They just cited this article and said it proves she stayed on the ballot to help her win the primary

I was watching the show. The remarks they posted on the screen and the way they parsed it made no sense so I went and looked up the original source.

The vote in Michigan did mean something as Dodd and Hillary both said. It meant to all the Democratic voters who went out to vote that someone heard their voices--even if their delegates were not seated, they got to participate.

When people say that they do no matter, Michigan voters are going to get steamed. They are already being laid off. They are already being rejected. Now they don't count. Good grief! Just hand the state to the GOP why don't you?

[MelissaB]

18. I'm from Michigan, and I think you're wrong.

I can only speak for myself, though.

[bain_sidhe]

43. I'm from Michigan, and I think s/he's right

also just speaking for myself. But, the way they selectively quoted the article *did* make it sound like she stayed on the ballot to help her chances in the primary, rather than the general. And I do think she meant the general. (Even though she obviously thought it woud be her competing for Michigan in the general.)

[high density]

59. Well, we certainly know what she means right now

And right now she thinks the "Clinton vs. None of the Above" primary vote was fair.

[trained specialist]

77. don't blame Clinton for being the only one smart enough

to put her name on the ballot.
It's all about about judgement.

[McCamy Taylor]

95. Obama supporters ignore the fact that Obama campaigned in Mi---as uncommitted.

So, he did not in fact "not participate" in Michigan. And may never have intended not to participate. Instead, he offered himself as the anti-Hillary and got a whopping 40% of the vote. The polls show that if a re-vote was done they would be neck and neck. I do not see why he objects to a re-vote. He is only alienating the voters of Michigan. His argument that Republicans who voted in January should be able to double vote makes no sense--no other state allows that. And Republicans are voting for Hillary right now. Why does he want them to participate? Why do his voters blindly accept everything he says as "right for the Party"?

None of it makes sense. It simply seems designed to cost us Michigan this fall, which I as a Democrat find intolerable.

[papau]

98. You saw it the way I saw it - KO lied to advance Obama and smear Hillary - a GE/MSNBC SOP

[GodlessBiker]

2. "It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything." That says it all.

[McCamy Taylor]

10. You have been reading too much Drudge. Informed people read the WHOLE story.

They do not pick out one line or a few words that they can parse into the meaning that they want to convey. That is the kind of trick that Drudge, FOX, KO and a whole lot of people who claim to be Obama supporters (but some of them might be Freepers) do.

Real people do not talk in sound bites.

[GodlessBiker]

42. You ignore that statement, thinking it means nothing when it clearly means a lot.

[nonoxy9]

100. How DARE you compare or even suggest that KO is a freeper!!!!

After all he has done to stand up against the policies of this fascist administration when NOBODY on primetime TV would and now you turn on him?
This is the scary part about the Hillary supporters I see. You're willing to throw anybody under the bus that doesn't get on board!
After Hillary's voting record, her corporate ties and her campaign tactics, this is another reason some of us see no difference between Hillary and GWB!:wtf:

[truebrit71]

63. The sentence the Hillbots can't run away from..no matter HOW hard they try...

..she KNEW they weren't going to count...but NOW it's an issue because she's waaaaaaaaaaaay behind in the race...

What's that other word that begins with 'H' that describes her to a tee?

Oh, that's right, HYPOCRITE...

:eyes:

[McCamy Taylor]

96. If all you have is a sentence, then you and your candidate are not fit to lead a country.

[Horse with no Name]

3. I have been sorely disappointed at KO as of late

He is getting his news from blogs instead of reputable sources.
He sourced a blog on one of his hit pieces on Clinton. I emailed him several times with the truth from a newspaper of record.
He never retracted.
I haven't watched him since.

[Dinger]

6. I Am Disappointed Too

Some resemblance to equal time/balance would be nice. He doesn't seem to give a shit.
I still watch him once in a while though.

[SoonerPride]

7. "It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything," Clinton said

End.
of.
debate.

[McCamy Taylor]

12. No, end of the Drudge strategy, I call bullshit on the practice of taking a few words out of context

and claiming that this is all that someone has said. This is like taking the words "I hate you" out of a lover's quarrel that ends in a reconciliation.

You people do not debate. You have cotton stuffed in your ears and you proclaim, and then you pitch hissy fits because no one will listen or take you seriously.

Listening is a two way street, and if you do not listen to the whole story, then you have nothing to add worth hearing.

[SoonerPride]

14. Well, since she signed a freakin PLEDGE

and stated - more than once - that Michigan and Florida wouldn't count...........

I took her at her word. Crazy. I know. But back then I trusted her. Even voted for her on Super Tuesday.

Here's the Pledge:

I, (name), Democratic candidate for President, pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential primary election or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina." It goes on to specifically say that "campaigning" will be as defined by "the rules and regulations" of the Democratic National Committee.

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=John+DiStaso's+Granite+Status%3A+Hillary+'weaseling'+on+pledge%3F&articleId=6152bb2f-4817-4bf2-b4ee-20008faab1c7


Your revisionist history is nonsense.

[McCamy Taylor]

17. Read the article for what "participation" means. If it was incorrect the DNC would have asked for a

correction. I am glad that KO and Todd pointed out the article even if they misrepresented it. It seems like some other people around DU have been altering history.

[SoonerPride]

22. Yeah, what it means is her PLEDGED WORD WASN'T WORTH FREAKIN CRAP.

She signed a pledge NOT TO PARTCIPATE and then, when no one esle was even on the ballot, she wanted it to count.

She is a weasel.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. Better To Watch Law And Order ReRuns...

~

[Horse with no Name]

9. That's WHAT I am talking about

There was one in particular yesterday...
Had to do with race. Did you catch it?
It mirrored the national discussion we are having as of late.
I was quite impressed.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. I Have Probably Seen Every One...

I used to like K O before he became so biased... It's sad...

[Johnny__Motown]

13. It sounded like she and they were talking about winning the GE in 2008

are you sure you heard it right? I watched it too and came away with a different understanding of what she was saying

[jenmito]

20. I saw the show. You're right. The OP obviously heard it through the filter of a Hillary bias.

Notice how s/he lumped Keith in with RWers? :eyes:

[sallyseven]

84. Hillary bias or maybe sanity.

That is in short supply around here. KO is biased and not worth watching anymore.

[rodeodance]

15. I had posed a few times here-saying Dodd and Hillary had the same reason-but

I had never been able to find the Refs.

consequently i got called a lyer several times.

thank you.

[McCamy Taylor]

16. Thank KO and Dodd. They found the reference when they misrepresented it.

[rodeodance]

23. ok. thank YOU very much for posting

[BlueIdaho]

101. I think

you mean liar.

[johnnydrama]

19. if she cared so much about MI

Why did she sign the pledge to not participate in the Michigan primary.

Why didn't she fight it tooth and nail back then?

You can't accept delegates from a primary that you pledge to not PARTICIPATE in.

Accepting the delegates would be PARTICIPATING in the primary.

[rodeodance]

21. HRC was in MI today--shows she cares--where was BO?

[jenmito]

24. No. It shows she's desperate to try to get delegates that she at one time didn't care about.

You know-just like caucuses stopped counting, small states stopped counting, red states stopped counting, and on and on...as soon as she started losing them. She likes to change the rules/move the goalposts as she goes along.

[rodeodance]

29. -Perceptions matter to the voters. They see who is working to get their votes to count. NOT BO!!

[jenmito]

37. And rules matter, too. Hillary as well as the others signed a pledge saying MI (and FL) wouldn't

count. And the perception that Hillary is desperate and changing her view on the votes counting for selfish reasons, which also happens to be reality, will kick in soon, too.

[Royal Oak Rog]

26. Bo Schembechlers been dead for a couple

of years now, but he was a Bush/Cheney man just like Hill, but I supposed he could of helped.

[cui bono]

27. Yeah, cuz she's deserate for those delegates.

She cares about winning. End of story.

[rodeodance]

31. Too bad it is the voters who know who cares. You opine does not matter.

Yeah, cuz she's deserate for those delegates.
Posted by cui bono



She cares about winning. End of story.

[PassingFair]

105. "She cares about winning. End of story"

That about sums her up.

Her ends do NOT justify her means.
If I want a candidate that can't
play fair with other DEMOCRATS, I'll vote for a
REPUBLICAN.

[Politicalboi]

86. She only cares

Because she is LOSING.

[Splinter Cell]

25. Good grief

I guess anytime someone is critical of your candidate then they're a partisan hack?

Olbermann is the best person in televison news today. He'll chew on ANYONE's behind if he smells something fishy.

I've never seen Chuck Todd say anything that wasn't a pure account of technical points and facts.

[rodeodance]

34. Todd has very critical of Hillary. and you know it. And as for KO--The OP is right.

[Drachasor]

49. There's much to be critical about

For instance, are you a big fan of Mark Penn and the other people Hillary chose to run her campaign (and has not changed)?

[McCamy Taylor]

56. Hillary is not my candidate. I blog about media bias and always have FOR YEARS.

You can check my work here and at Salon. KO has crossed the line and only his loyal fans (like me) can get him to cross back.

[Buzz Clik]

28. Nice dodge. Hillary TODAY threw a number of obvious red herrings.

In yet another day of Hillary's endless kitchen sink (aka, a campaign of hate).

How stupid can one person look? Trying to morph the wrangling about the re-vote in Michigan into a civil rights issue? :rofl: Hey, Hill!! You wanted them seated without a re-vote, remember? REMEMBER? She-it.

By the way, Sugarplum -- loved your calendar data dump. Did you think no one would notice how damned much redacting you did? Mother of god, you get more like Bush every day. And "this page intentionally left blank" on the days you were testifying about Whitewater and the day you were stumping with your husband in favor of NAFTA.

Gee, I think this kind of shit deserves its own thread, don't you?

[McCamy Taylor]

30. Only RW trolls use Whitewater against Hillary. Whitewater was a RW smear.

So, who here is a RW troll?

[rodeodance]

32. and MILLIONS of tax $$ down the tube!

[Buzz Clik]

38. It's my shadow! Hi, rodeodance! How many times is this today?

You Hillary worshippers are having a helluva time following the rules of DU, aren't you?

How do you spell desperation?

[Buzz Clik]

36. Callling me a rightwing troll? That's against DU rules. tsk tsk. But I won't Alert (snark)

And for your information, I was telling what she was doing that day.

You really are the depth of hateful stupidity, aren't you?

[McCamy Taylor]

44. Read my post. No one called you anything. I mentioned demographics.

I am sure that your reference was just a reference and not meant as a right wing style smear, correct?

I mean , you probably mentioned Whitewater to remind us of how the right wing media and the mainstream media have spent almost 16 years saying and writing nothing but a pack of lies about the Clintons so only a fool would believe it if Bob Novak wrote or said on TV that Hillary had info on Barrack Obama that she could use to hurt him. I mean, Obama would never use Novak's unsupported uncorroborated statement to come out and publicly accuse her of plotting dirty tricks during the Iowa caucused, knowing that in Iowa, dirty tricks are despised more than anything else...

Oh, but that is right. Obama did just that. Based upon the word of that drunkard lying sack of shit traitor Novak who created the lie that single handedly cost McGovern more votes than any other.

Never mind.

Anyway, Whitewater should remind everyone why I trust the MSM about as far as I trust a sack of rabid wolverines.

[Buzz Clik]

52. Nevermind, indeed. You called me a rightwing troll, and pretended you didn't. Gutless.

Go away.

[McCamy Taylor]

70. By their deeds ye shall know them.

[Divine Discontent]

90. very true... I've been using the ignore feature on a LOT of OP's tonight eom

[Drachasor]

50. Is Rezko any different?

I don't think either is right to use, but I can understand where an annoyed fellow Obama supporter is coming from.

[rodeodance]

33. REC

[rodeodance]

35. REC

[Auntie Bush]

39. Thanks for the post.

I wouldn't have known that as I frequently don't watch KO anymore.
Now I'll go read it.

[Larkspur]

40. KO does not distort the news

When he makes a mistake, he acts like an adult and admits it. Yesterday KO gave himself a "Worse Person" vote because he incorrectly said that the NY Times editor hired William Kristol. It was the Times publisher and owner who did.

Admitting mistakes is something Hillary should learn.

[McCamy Taylor]

46. KO quoted Drudge on 60 Minutes, called 3 am ad racist, told Hillary she had to

reject Ferraro the human being in a Special Comment (but let Obama come on the show to explain his side of his scandal and said it was OK if Obama just disagreed with Wright words but let him remain part of the family) . KO also said it was also fine that Wright resigned but KO wanted Hillary to fire Ferraro's ass, and she should have done it the very minute it happened, but it was also OK that Obama waited a while to think things over because Obama had to treat Wright with respect since he was from a different generation that had to endure a lot of prejudice (and presumably Ferraro who was born in the 1930s and put herself through lawschool as a teacher was not).

KO has totally lost his objectivity. He roots for Obama as if he were a sports franchise. Tonight he sank to a new low, adopting Drudge's trick of taking a long article and editing it down to a snippet that he could use to make a point---Hillary stayed on the Michigan ballot because she is a scheming ambitious bitch--when in fact the WaPo article shows her as thinking about the greater needs of the country which sure as hell can not stand another 4 years of a Republican Presidency.

KO is almost certainly being manipulated by the smart people at MSNBC--Matthews, Fineman, Buchanan--who are using him to create division in the ranks of the Democrats while they promote the candidacy of John McCain, beloved of the MIC if not of all the active duty soldiers. GE is under orders to get McCain elected and they have been shilling for the man who spent VietNam in a box. Since Olbermann will not call him a maverick, somehow they have convinced KO to do the next best thing----he is helping to divide and conquer the Democrats, while destroying his own reputation for fairness and honesty so that he will be next to useless in the general election.

Maybe Todd brought him the edited portion of the WaPo article and presented it to him as if it was the whole one. Maybe the Bad Boys above are the ones who got him to host Lawrence O'Donnell after he wrote "Jphn Edwards is a Loser" without telling him about the article.

KO is beginning to look like a loser. I have posted before that his own MSNBC appears to be doing its best to destroy his career, but I think that he is oblivious.

[Drachasor]

51. You didn't pay much attention to that special comment, did you?

For one, he was explicit that the 3am phone ad was BORDERLINE, and that such allegations could well be false -- but there was a real perception out there that some people had, and that Hillary needed to address.

[McCamy Taylor]

74. I wrote a whole comment on it. All the qualifiers in the world do not

change the fact that he said "David Dukes" and accused her of three racist acts. Qualifiers are what intelligent people throw in so that when their propaganda is challenged they can say "But I said 'might be' or gives the impression". When you read the speech with enough vitriol the audience does not here the qualifier. It hears the word "racist" and the anger and the fervor and sees the flared nostrils and the aggressive posture. That is how propaganda works.

To say that if a single person has taken offense means that the one whom has offended is in the wrong means that KO himself is in the wrong because countless women who once belonged to the Keith Olbermann estrogen brigade are now convinced that he is a Hillary bashing male chauvinist pig. You say he does not mean to give that impression? Too bad. They all have that impression. It must be his fault that offense was given.

There was never any logic behind that assertion. I am surprised that no one called him on it. This is America, the land where we have freedom of speech, the land where my right to speak out takes precedence over your right not to be offended. We let communists and nazis march through our streets, because we value free expression. So, how was Hillary supposed to muzzle a 70 year old woman? The same way Obama was going to muzzle his minister?

There was no logic behind this special comment, just KO's own hatred for Hillary for standing in the way of his chosen candidate. KO is no better than Lawrence O'Donnell who called John Edwards a loser for standing in Obama's way.

This is not how sensible people support their candidates. This is how fascist foot soldiers support their candidates. Obama should be very afraid of some of his own supporters.

[Larkspur]

54. The Truth hurts and KO knows how to dish out the truth

KO is the closet our society will come to a prophet admonishing the ruling elite.

[McCamy Taylor]

76. He used to be that. MSNBC is letting him destroy himself. I think GE would prefer

to have him become this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTN3s2iVKKI

rather than this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08

[Politicalboi]

87. But you don't see

Hillary destroying herself along with the party?

[Larkspur]

41. KO does not distort the news

When he makes a mistake, he acts like an adult and admits it. Yesterday KO gave himself a "Worse Person" vote because he incorrectly said that the NY Times editor hired William Kristol. It was the Times publisher and owner who did.

Admitting mistakes is something Hillary should learn.

[mckeown1128]

45. Maybe they should have used this quote...

NHPR's Laura Knoy: "So, if you value the DNC calendar, why not just pull out of Michigan? Why not just say, Hey Michigan, I'm off the ballot?"

Hillary Clinton: "Well, you know, It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything"

http://www.nhpr.org/node/13858

[McCamy Taylor]

47. rofl Stepford Wives for Obama! See my replies above.

In Naked Lunch Burroughs writes about the political parties of Interzone. One of them is the Divisionists. They clone themselves and attempt to fill the world with identical copies of themselves.

I think that back in 1959, Burroughs predicted the DU Obama camp and their limited selection of mantras.

I have the whole quote in my latest journal. It is a hoot.

[McCamy Taylor]

48. Video from Olbermann Watch: I would never in a million years have guessed I would

ever recommend anything from this site, but this video says it all in its contrast of his reaction to Ferraro/Clinton and Wright/Obama--was this this same KO? Where did he suddenly discover tolerance and compassion? Did the tooth fairy leave it under his pillow between Monday and Friday?:

http://www.olbermannwatch.com/archives/2008/03/olbermann_great.php

And if you want to go straight to YouTube here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA3v7ON5XdA

[davidpdx]

53. I find it telling that someone screams about RW talking points

And then post a site like that. You might as well take the next step and quote Fox News. Yes, I've seen the Olbermann Watch site, it's a hate filled blog about Olbermann. I don't like Bill O and wouldn't watch him if you tried to torture me into it. If you don't like Olbermann, then don't watch him.

[McCamy Taylor]

55. I find it sad when KO does something so biased that Olbermannwatch can post something truthful

[Iceburg]

61. A stunning clip of unadulterated partisanship and hypocrisy

I cancelled my MSNBC service 6 weeks ago as I could not bear to watch such unhinged infomercials. His profoundly distorted narrative, calculated ommissions and lies have elevated his arrogance and hypocrisy to levels unsurpassed by his arch rival Bill O'Reilly. Olbermann is not the "worst person in the world", but by any yardstick he is the laughing stock of journalism.

[McCamy Taylor]

57. MSNBC transcript up. Here's what KO and Todd said and here's why it was a distortion

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23725033/

OLBERMANN: Let me play a clip from Senator Clinton today and then, contrast it with something that just sort of fell out of the Internet this afternoon. This is from Detroit. This is talking about why she had not removed her name from the ballot in Michigan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: When others made the decision to remove their names from the ballot, I didn‘t, because I believe your voices and your votes should count.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: Seriously, I was just looking for a date for the January 15th vote in Michigan. (INAUDIBLE) what date it was and out of a Google search fell this from October 11th last year, Senator Clinton all but certain Democratic nominee at that point said on the campaign trail in New Hampshire to the public radio station there:

“It‘s clear this election they‘re having,” meaning Michigan, “is not going to count for anything. But I just personally did not want to set up a situation where the Republicans are going to be campaigning between now and whenever and then after the nomination, we have to go in and repair the damage to be ready to win Michigan in 2008.”

This does not sound quite as high minded as saying “I am here to give you a voice, Michigan.” Are we backfilling here?

What is going on here? KO has been spreading Obama's talking points for him on his show. Like the Hillary lobbied for NAFTA, we just got it from her papers. Whatever Obama is saying a certain day. KO is saying that day. This in itself is appalling. KO is now a semiofficial member of the Obama campaign just as Matthews is a semiofficial member of the McCain campaign. And this is not the only instance. I have seen this pattern day after day for weeks.

KO was looking up the reference for the Stepford Obama Wives Mantra du Jour “It‘s clear this election they‘re having,” meaning Michigan, “is not going to count for anything. that at least three respondents to this thread have tried to cite in a Drudge-like attempt to claim that a single sentence or sound bite can define history---it can not. Olbermann noted that the WaPo article stated that Hillary was the front runner at the time and that she stated that spurning Michigan would hurt the Democratic Party's chances in the fall election.

KO and Todd decided to spin this as meaning that Hillary only cared that spurning Michigan would hurt Hillary's chances in the fall election---that she was some kind of party traitor who could care less if a spurned Michigan killed a chance at an Obama presidency or an Edwards presidency. Indeed, the implication is that she conspired to remain on the ballot and let the others drop off so that she would be favored by Michigan and the others would suffer.

However, if KO had read the whole article on air he would have been forced to admit that Hillary said that she (and Dodd and probably Gravel though I have not found a statement from him) were trying to protect the Democratic Party's chances of winning in the fall of 2008.

From the WaPo article

Clinton's comment reflects an optimism she will win her party's nomination to face the Republican nominee in November 2008. She said any snub to Michigan could hurt her _ and all Democrats' _ chances to defeat the Republicans there.

"I did not believe it was fair to just say, 'Goodbye Michigan' and not take into account the fact we're going to have to win Michigan if we're going to be in the White House in January 2009," she said.

In leaving out these parts, KO is guilty of Drudge style journalism of the type Matt Drudge used when he took Hillary's 60 Minutes interview and edited it to distort what she said.

I will not reject KO the human being, but he is guilty of bad journalism.

[truebrit71]

60. Umm...so she said "the votes aren't going to count" too bad..so sad...when she was in FRONT...

...and then all of a sudden as her chances fade slowly fade into oblivion she wants the votes to count all of a sudden...

What has you upset? The fact that your candidate has been caught in a blatant flip-flop worthy of the Mittster himself, or that KO called her out about it?

[McCamy Taylor]

65. Campaign slogans do not make up for a lack of intelligent argument

So far we have four--no five if you count KO---Obama supporters parroting the same Obama slogan which is one Hillary quote taken out of context from a larger interview in which she cautions that even though the Michigan delegates are not going to be seated it is important to treat Michigan and its primary with respect if the Democrats do not want them to go for the Republicans this fall.

Obama supporters seem to be low on arguments. And the sad thing is that usually I can think of arguments that my opponents can use (that they just have not thought of themselves) but in this case, there are none. If there were, KO would have come up with some.

[truebrit71]

58. Wow, project much? "increasingly partisan Keith Olbermann and always partisan hack Chuck Todd "

..Try decaff....

:eyes:

[rodeodance]

62. Try learning from the best.

[McCamy Taylor]

71. I don't drink caffeine. Or Kool Aid.

[McCamy Taylor]

64. Last Oct. Todd said Obama dropped Michigan to pander to Iowa and hurt Hillary

Thank god for Crooksandliars and video. Video does not lie. Here is what the much esteemed (around DU) Chuck Todd had to say about the last minute decision by Obama, Edwards and Richadson to drop out of Michigan's primary last October. Please watch the video. It has nothing in common with the history that Todd was making up last night to cater to KO's revisionist world according to Obama.

For those without a video player, to summarize Todd says that Obama and the others decided that since there were no delegates in play in Michigan, it would be better to deny Hillary a beauty contest victory in Michigan by dropping out, especially since Iowa and New Hampshire were mad at Michigan and by dropping out they could improve their chances in these states . Note the many replies from angry voters from Michigan to this article.

That means that Todd suspected that Obama and the others dropped out of Michigan as an attack on Hillary and to win votes in Iowa and New Hampshire. How noble of them. They put their party at risk in the general election in a wild bid to unseat the favorite. Is that supposed to make them selfless Democratic Party heroes?

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/10/09/obama-edwards-richardson-pull-out-of-michigan-primary/

As I always say The Press is a big fat liar and Todd is one of the biggest liars of them all.

[high density]

66. So Obama's actions make Hillary's comments invalid?

It seems both candidates agreed that it was going to be nothing more than a beauty contest. Obama did what was politically expedient for him and then Clinton did what was politically expedient for her. The difference though is that Obama is not out there telling everybody that the vote in MI was fair and valid.

[McCamy Taylor]

69. I believe Hillary has been asking for a re-vote. That does not imply the first vote was valid.

If there is no revote, then the Superdelegates will be expected to make up for the lack of representation that the citizens of the state of Michigan suffer. Same for Florida.

Since neither Obama nor Hillary will reach 2024 as long as there is no revote in the two states---and Hillary wants a re-vote but Obama has not supported re-vote---then both candidates will have to court Superdelegates. And yes, Obama is attempting to court Superdelegates with his unusual "Hillary is a cheater for trying to court Superdelegates" strategy.

Remember how Rudi was running for the president of 9/11? For the last three months Obama has been running for the President of Hillary is a Cheater . It is wearing thin.

[high density]

72. She's had three or four different trial balloons on the subject of MI

So it's hard to know what exactly she wants. I just know one of them was that the MI vote was fair and we should just take the vote as it is.

Also, Clinton obviously wants the super delegates to override the grassroots efforts (i.e. caucuses & primaries) while Obama wants them to seal the deal. If you recognize that they both need super delegates to get to 2024, why are you blaming Obama for trying to court them?

[Politicalboi]

88. But she is a

CHEATER. It runs in the family don't ya know.

[McCamy Taylor]

67. Here is why Michiga matters to those of us who care about the general election.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/michigan/michigan_2008_presidential_election

Michigan has cast its Electoral College votes for the Democrats in four straight Presidential elections and it would be difficult for Obama or Clinton to reach the White House without carrying the state. However, the economically devastated state has been trending Republican in recent elections—Bill Clinton won Michigan by thirteen points in 1996, Al Gore won by five in 2000, and John Kerry won by just three points in 2004.

[AX10]

68. Olbamaman has sold himself out to be a surrogate for Obama.

Olberman is but a partisan hack now, in the same league as the pundits.

[McCamy Taylor]

73. Oh Dear, KO rushed out the "Hillary did so support NAFTA" talking point for Obama yesterday

too

The documents are also showing that in 1993, she was helping her husband win Congressional approval of NAFTA.

You would think after he got egg on his face rushing to announce that the uncorroborated "Someone overheard someone say something about Hillary in Canada so it must mean that Hillary is the villain on NAFTA not Obama!" story turned everything upside down (or however he phrase it--I felt like I was Through the Looking Glass at that point so forgive me if I can not remember it word for word) he would be more cautious. But no. Based upon her diaries, he assumed that if she attended a NAFTA meeting, that must mean that she supported NAFTA. You know, the same way that if a defense attorney attends a capital murder trial, it means that he wants to see his client get the chair.

Here is what one former aid says about Hillary's attitude towards NAFTA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQJxtzLQ51Q

I wasn't ever going to "journal" a thread about KO, but I think I have to do it to this one. This is probably his worst show ever, just for the shear sloppiness. Now I have it for future reference along with the ones about CBS and Dan Rather and The Press v. John Edwards. KO will never be that kind of atrocity, but let this serve as a warning that even someone with a good heart can start practicing crap journalism when they let bias creep in--- even when they support a good candidate like Obama . There is nothing wrong with being for Obama. There is something very wrong with showing your support for Obama by using distortions and double standards and false assumptions to do it. For one thing, it makes the viewers distrust everything you say about anything, because once they see you dissemble about anything---and viewers can spot bias from a mile away, thanks to Watergate---they assume that all the rest is Pravda, too.

[papau]

99. Something about Obama makes win by smear and lies OK if his fans do it for Obama

[ElsewheresDaughter]

75. Chuck Todd has been a RW propagandist for 16 years..Hotline....yuck

[PassingFair]

78. The OTHER "theory".

"In the state of Michigan, one theory is that Obama, Edwards, Biden and Richardson dropped from the Mi ballot in order to court Iowa voters who were anngry at Iowa's early primary."


The other "theory" is that Obama, Edwards, Biden, Richardson, Kucinich, Dodd
AND Clinton PLEDGED NOT TO PARTICIPATE in the Michigan Primary.

This theory has the advantage of being TRUTH.

If all of the candidates had their names off the ballot,
we would not be in this situation now.

And no, I did not forget Gravel, he never signed the pledge.

[McCamy Taylor]

79. Read the WaPo article that KO cited for what "no participation" meant

It is in the thread header. There is nothing about dropping off the ballots. The candidates were not allowed to campaign. The spouses were. That meant Bill, Michelle, Elizabeth could have gone in if they wanted to--they are all big draws.

That was what they agreed to. Obama, Edwards and Richardson unilaterally decided to withdraw. It may have even contributed to Obama and Edward's Iowa wins.

[PassingFair]

82. Again, depends on what your definition of "IS" is.

:crazy:

How could Obama, Edwards, Biden AND Richardson "unilaterally" decide
to withdraw.

You can't have a tournament without TEAMS.

DLC members Clinton and Dodd, and Mr. Gravel (hardly a "serious"
candidate)were playing by their own rules, in their own little
tournament, and even though no one else was playing against them,
Clinton now wants to claim a "victory".

:puke:

She's spiking the ball in an EMPTY STADIUM.

[McCamy Taylor]

91. More evidence that the withdrawal from Mi was a conspiracy to attack Hillary

http://iowaindependent.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1264

Iowans are by and large straightforward people. Given that, it should come as no surprise that to the average Iowan, the Michigan ballot situation seems pretty cut and dried: Democratic presidential hopefuls who honor their four-state pledge and support the nomination calendar won't be on the Wolverine State's ballot. As with most things in life, and especially politics, the situation is more complicated.

Five individuals connected to five different campaigns have confirmed -- but only under condition of anonymity -- that the situation that developed in connection with the Michigan ballot is not at all as it appears on the surface. The campaign for Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, arguably fearing a poor showing in Michigan, reached out to the others with a desire of leaving New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton as the only candidate on the ballot. The hope was that such a move would provide one more political obstacle for the Clinton campaign to overcome in Iowa.

Sounds like Obama's campaigned :puke: on Michigan to secure himself an Iowa win.

[PassingFair]

102. She could have pulled her name.

This is a LAUGHABLE "theory".
Unnamed "sources".

She left HER name on there JUST IN CASE
she needed Michigan, which she clearly
thought she didn't at the time.

Her people in Michigan were FIGHTING for
the early date. Florida too!

To paint her as a victim in this
mess is just NUTS!

[McCamy Taylor]

80. Challenge to Obama Camp-cite link that shows candidates signed agreement to get off ballot in Mich.

I have had it up to here with people saying "no participation means....

I want to see the document that spells out what the candidates agreed to. No one signs anything nowadays unless it is all in writing, carefully worded, every detail spelled out, no loopholes.

So, someone find me the document or the public agreement they all signed that said "We will not be on the ballot in Florida and Michigan".

If no one produces it and if people keeping saying that "no participation" means not on the ballot, tomorrow I will start a separate thread in which I ask for someone to supply the proof for this claim. You know that the Hillary supporters will be rating it up just to show that no one has been able to come up with a document that backs up the claims .

So, now is your chance. Produce the evidence. Where is the agreement where the Dems said they would not be on the ballot in Michigan? Show me the money. I hope it is something better than just "no participation" because that is too vague. No participation in what? Campaigning? Money raising? Without some specifics or context, I can not tell what it is supposed to mean. So, I will need a link.

[Politicalboi]

89. Isn't the proof in

Hillary's own words. MI and FL don't COUNT. What more do you need? But now she needs them so now THEY should count. Looks like she's lying again.

[McCamy Taylor]

93. Again, the Drudge tactic. That sound bite is not an agreement signed by the Dems.

Like I said, if by tomorrow, no Obama supporter comes up with the documentation, I will have my own thread and my own documentation. And anyone who reads my work knows that I do a thorough (and well documented job).

Please, I would love to hear more than that single quote about "doesn't count" and the "no participation" which is all that anyone has offered. You guys must have more than that. Come on. Give me some evidence. And I do not mean rants about Hillary being an "election stealer" who will "do anything" or mentions of "Whitewater"---all of which have been tried in this thread as if they can take the place of legitimate argument in a rational discussion.

I write fiction, remember. I edit it, too. I am not going to be persuaded by your amateurish efforts at propaganda.

Just the facts, ma'am.

[MarjorieG]

81. 50/50 was offered last year, and should have been final.

[rodeodance]

103. yeah--with that BO wanted to steal some of Clinton's votes!!

[Politicalboi]

85. What is Keith suppose to do

Go along and pretend that the Clintons aren't trying to steal this election by changing the rules in mid game. All the candidates KNEW MI and FL would NOT count. Blame everyone except Hillary she is the victim here. If she did as she promised MI and FL wouldn't be a big issue. She is like a child who is losing a game and taking her ball home.

[McCamy Taylor]

92. KO is supposed to practice sound journalism. He has become a cheerleader.

[grantcart]

94. Clinton took up the fight of Florida and Michigan only when they became the only way

to try and support her lagging campaign.

[McCamy Taylor]

97. Oh really? Look at this all the way from January 15. after her New Hampshire win

http://video1.washingtontimes.com/bellantoni/2008/01/clinton_wins_michigan.html

The Clinton and Obama campaigns sent out dueling memos today dealing with the Michigan election, since the state party there is stripped of their convention delegates for breaking national party rules.


Obama's came first:


TO: Interested Parties
FR: The Obama Campaign
RE: Michigan Democratic Presidential Primary

Because Michigan violated DNC rules by placing its Presidential Primary on January15th, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee ruled that the Michigan Democratic Party could not use the results of the January 15 Presidential Primary to allocate delegates to the 2008 Democratic National Convention. In other words, no delegates are at stake today in the Michigan Democratic Primary.


All of the Democratic presidential candidates publicly pledged not to campaign in Michigan, none have visited the state, opened offices, hired staff or communicated with voters through television, mail, phones or otherwise. In addition, four Democratic presidential candidates, Obama, Edwards, Richardson and Biden withdrew their names from the Primary ballot in order to avoid participating in the Michigan Primary. Clinton did not withdraw her name even though she publicly committed to not participate in the Primary. Clinton, Dodd, Gravel and Kucinich are the only candidates on the ballot today. The Obama Campaign is not participating in the Primary and has not instructed supporters in Michigan whether or how to vote.


Therefore the results of the primary tonight have no bearing on the Democratic nomination contest.


Florida, whose primary was scheduled for January 29th, is just like Michigan — the DNC applied full sanctions for setting an early primary date and there are no delegates are at stake. As with Michigan, all of the Democratic presidential candidates signed a pledge to not campaign in Florida. Although Senator Obama did not remove his name from the Florida Primary ballot because Florida law did not allow him to do so, Senator Obama is firm in his commitment to neither participate nor campaign in the Florida Primary and its outcome has no bearing on the nomination contest. We raise Florida today because Senator Clinton has scheduled a fundraiser in Florida on Jan. 27th, and there are signs — despite Senator Clinton's public pledge to the contrary — that she may be planning to campaign in the state — inquiring about large venues and increased organizing activity — ahead of the Florida primary.


Our position and the position of the DNC is clear — neither the Florida nor Michigan primaries are playing any role in deciding the Democratic nominee and we are not campaigning in either state.


Then Clinton's:


To: Interested Parties

From: The Clinton Campaign

Regarding: Michigan and Florida Presidential Primaries


The Obama campaign today circulated a memo regarding today's Michigan primary and the January 29 Florida primary. This memo was concerning on several levels.


Let us be very clear. Senator Clinton signed a pledge that she would not campaign in any state that violates the DNC approved calendar. Therefore, we did not campaign in Michigan, nor will we campaign in Florida in violation of the pledge. We have two small scheduled fundraisers in South Florida on January 27, as explicitly permitted by the pledge, but we will not hold any open public campaign events. The Obama campaign has also held numerous fundraisers in Florida since signing the pledge. Contrary to the Obama campaign's memo, there are no events at large venues, nor have we organized in the state. We intend to do so as our party's nominee in the general election, but will honor our pledge not to campaign there in violation of the pledge.


Let us be clear about something else, however. While Senator Clinton will honor her commitment not to campaign in Florida in violation of the pledge, she also intends to honor her pledge to hear the voices of all Americans. The people of Michigan and Florida have just as much of a right to have their voices heard as anyone else. It is disappointing to hear a major Democratic presidential candidate tell the voters of ANY state that their voices aren't important.


Make no mistake — the Obama campaign had no problems when its supporters and allies in Michigan ran radio ads and other campaign activities urging people to vote for "uncommitted" as a way to register their support for Senator Obama — and to give him a chance to compete for those delegates at the national convention. Now, with polls in recent days showing that effort and their candidate running far behind in both states, the Obama campaign has shifted tactics to say that those who cast a vote in either state don't matter. We couldn't disagree more.


Senator Clinton intends to be President for all fifty states. And while she will honor the pledge she signed and not campaign in either state, she intends to continue to give every American a voice during this election and when she gets to the White House.

Note that Hillary's campaign call's Obama's out in two lies---the lie that they did not campaign in Michigan when they actually told people to vote uncommitted so that Obama could claim the uncommitted vote at the convention and the lie that Clinton has somehow "participated" in Florida more than Obama. Also note that Obama is changing the definition of participation here and that Hillary's campaign says specifically that the pledge they all signed said no campaigning.

So, this proves that Hillary had not counted out the voters of Michigan and Florida. More likely she was saying that the delegates would not be seated automatically. However, she repeats the promise she made in October not to disenfranchise the voters of Florida and Michigan.

If this were anyone but Obama trying to keep Democratic voters of Florida and Michigan from being counted Party members would be outraged. I don't think I will wait until tomorrow. I am going to write about voter suppression Democratic style tonight.

[susankh4]

104. KO, I fear, is due for a vacation...

a long one.

And he'll get it if his ratings start falling from this crap. Which I suspect they will....

He is alienating a huge segment of his audience. Moreso every day.