Lanny Davis: Two Questions for Senator Obama

[BobbyVan]

I read Senator Obama's recent speech on race and Rev. Wright in Philadelphia several times and very carefully. It was a great, even brilliant, speech. I appreciate Senator Obama's willingness to tackle a difficult subject and to explain his complex reactions to some of Rev. Wright's sermons.

I personally regarded many of Rev. Wright's sermons as filled with hate words and bigoted generalizations base on race (in this case, all Whites). One could even call them racist. His remarks post-9/11 were nothing short of reckless and unforgiveable.

I am convinced that there isn't a shred in Senator Obama's being that shares these hateful or bigoted feelings. And I respect his strong words denouncing the views of a man for whom he has deep and genuine feelings of affection and loyalty, which I also respect.

But many people, including Obama supporters, may still have two questions that Senator Obama's speech did not sufficiently answer, at least in my opinion. And, for any Democrat whose priority is to win back the White House in 2008, they need to be answered now -- because, if Senator Obama ends up the party's nominee (I am a supporter of Senator Clinton's) -- for sure Senator McCain will insist they be answered in the fall.

These two questions are:

1. If a white minister preached sermons to his congregation and had used the "N" word and used rhetoric and words similar to members of the KKK, would you support a Democratic presidential candidate who decided to continue to be a member of that congregation?

2. Would you support that candidate if, after knowing of or hearing those sermons, he or she still appointed that minister to serve on his or her "Religious Advisory Committee" of his or her presidential campaign?

I hope my message gets to someone in the Obama campaign -- or to a reporter traveling with the Senator -- who can persuade Senator Obama to answer them directly. As I just wrote, he will have to do so -- either now or perhaps in the fall.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lanny-davis/two-questions-for-senator_b_92386.html?view=print

[Hawkeye-X]

1. I can answer #2 easily for you - Obama removed Wright last week

from his advisory committee.

I know his name is still listed there, but it needs to be updated accordingly.

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/wright_removed_from_obama_advi.php

[gayron]

31. It took him all this time

Now he should leave the church. That is how you end this.

[Hawkeye-X]

35. Guess you don't pay attention to the news.

Rev Wright is retiring in May. It was announced a long time ago.

[gayron]

39. His last firery sermon was in Dec of 2007 Did you see that on the news

[ihelpu2see]

52. plus, Did rev. Wright Call Whites derogatory names? Like 'cracker' or red neck?

maybe I missed something but has Sen. Obama said any anti-white things??

[JoFerret]

60. That doesn't actually answer LD's questions

.

[roguevalley]

95. Lannie can go fuck himself. Why not turn your fire on McCain and

his battalions of asshole preachers who believe America was created to destroy Islam and all muslims must die? Obama got his man gone. He shouldn't bring up having useless and unsavory people on staff. Monica is in the news now and he needs to shut the fuck up. The way the news works now, anything can be said about Bill and Hillary gets the flack. Just like Obama.

[Yurovsky]

108. agreed ... 2 can play the "guilt by association" game ...

sad that it's come to this.

I'm sure the folks over at GOP HQ are pinching themselves, unable to believe their good fortune. Obama is a shoe-in, yet the Clintons insist on trying to destroy him on a fool's errand trying to steal the nomination (which would guarantee her defeat anyway as African-American & youth voters would stay home).

The time for Hillary to go has long since passed.

[AX10]

2. k/r

[anonymous171]

3. I wonder if he even watched the tapes.

[Armstead]

4. Listen to the fucking speech again Lanny

Obama explained it. Maybe you would prefer to keep raising "questions" rather than actually getting an answer.

[gayron]

38. He explained nothing Armstead!

Did he explain why he still attends the church and why was he there absorbing 20 years of some of the most racist remarks?

[kentuck]

57. Do you think Obama is a racist...

or just poor judgement? Explain what you think Obama is guilty of?

[JoFerret]

63. I do

I think he is a racist. How could he not be a racist? Do you think YOU are not a racist?

He has poor judgment too. Like the rest of us. But most of us are not running for president.

[SeaLyons]

65. The speech

was about racism. Wright is about extremism. That's why the problem won't go away.

[democrat_patriot]

5. Is Lanny talking about McCain?

And his fundie endorsements?

[KittyWampus]

10. He's a Hillary surrogate pushing the Wright smear. Guess she couldn't get Tubbs to do it.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BobbyVan]

17. I haven't seen anyone try to address his questions

We're kidding ourselves if we can just tell people to STFU when the questions are raised.

Do you know the answer? If John Edwards attended a white version of Obama's church, would he still get our support?

[rodeodance]

23. either have I-----looking downstream --

[Armstead]

28. Answers

Obama stated clearly in his speech that the church, and Rev. Wright, represented a broad spectrum of the Black Community -- both negative and positive. And in his view, the positive aspects of the church far outweighed Wright's tendency to state things in hyperbolie.

He also suggested that those who are so quick to condemn Wreight and the church should look into it more completely before making a judgement on it, rather than relying on a few 15 second sound bytes.

2.)Considering some of the rats who the Clinton's have been in bed with, her campaiogn should be the last to be promoting the guilt by association meme.

[BobbyVan]

32. Those aren't answers

Davis asked: If a white minister preached sermons to his congregation and had used the "N" word and used rhetoric and words similar to members of the KKK, would you support a Democratic presidential candidate who decided to continue to be a member of that congregation?

Or maybe I'll phrase the question a little differently. Would Obama support a white candidate who attended a church where the pastor blamed AIDS on blacks?

[Armstead]

51. It's a false premise and a hypothetical

The false premise is that Wright is the same as a KKK guy. That is an appalling rejection of Wrights underlying connection to the civil rights movement of the past.

A lot of the complaints about Wright is his style. he shouts and uses phrases that are jarring -- especially to white ears. But you have to look at the larger context. Cooler heads and more respected voices, for example, have also said in more intellectual ways that 9-11 was, at least in part, blowback from American foreign policy.

As for your hypothetical about whether Obama would support a white candidate who attended a church where the pastor blamed AIDS on blacks -- My answer is that it would have to depend on the situation. Wouod depend on the politician and the preacher's overall record and belief system. It would also have to depend on the context of the statement.

I know you will say that's a cop-out, but my point is that people like Davis don't really want answers from Obama. He is simply trying to stretch out this with endless "questions" to raise doubts to make Obama unelectable so St. Hillary can win dirty.

[BobbyVan]

53. I'll give you that Davis isn't going to support Obama

But neither will the Republicans who raise the same questions.

The point is, can we answer them convincingly?

You were honest enough to take on the question I asked, and acknowledge that it's probably a cop-out. Obama needs to be able to condemn hateful rhetoric from the right. I worry that he's lost his moral authority to do that.

Republicans will now be comparing Pat Robertson to Obama's white grandmother and saying, don't get so upset. That's part of the good & the bad of white culture.

[Armstead]

75. I think he has gained moral authority to condemn hate speech

The fact is that we liberals tend to be self-righteous sometimes. We put things in a box that you're either racist or you're not. That turns off people.

Obama's message is different. While he condemns racism, he also acknowledges that it is not as simple as pigeonholing people. We have to look within ourselves, because race is a complex issue.

That's actually conciliatory, and if the media and the political process allows that to sink in, he is well equipped to counter attack the hateful speech of the otehr side -- making them look bad by comparison.

It's a gamble, but one worth taking and one that could well be successful politically if the Democrats were united behind him after the primaries.

[SeaLyons]

70. Obama's connection to the church

has gained him endorsements from Farrakhan and the Black Panthers, so questions will continue to pour in from every direction. Secondly, his speech was about racism, and Wright is about extremism.

[EffieBlack]

33. Davis isn't looking for an answer. He's looking for an argument.

I haven't heard Lanny Davis utter a peep about racial injustice, discrimination or other social wrongs. Why is he all of a sudden now all worked up about racial "tolerance."

I call bullshit.

[BobbyVan]

40. Who gives a fuck if it's Lanny Davis asking the questions?

Address the questions, don't get into ad hominem. The only thing I learned from your reply is that you're afraid of the answers.

[JoFerret]

61. Ah yes. Silence the opposing voices

It's been tried.

[KittyWampus]

7. Dear Lanny, If Hillary were in a Fascist Power Cult for decades, would you still support her?

[scheming daemons]

8. With all the passion I can muster..... FUCK Lanny Davis....

He has no morality, and hasn't, for years. His SOLE moral ethic is "How can I help the Clintons today?"

[formernaderite]

22. ok agreed but

come on...Obama will be facing those questions against Mccain. They're questions that still beckon answering. I'm an Obama supporter...but beyond the beauty and brilliance of the speech...those questions still remain. The speech was an opening dialogue on race that I really appreciated and could have been given regardless... but certain answers he gave were clintonian..ie. evasive. Some of us are a bit creeped out by these over the top preachers and churches regardless of the color of the pulpit.

[scheming daemons]

41. These questions don't remain to me..... Obama answered to my satisfaction....

...

[BigDDem]

49. The new politics

HOPE!
CHANGE!
FUCK LANNY DAVIS!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

74. He is a Concern Troll extraordinaire. A disgrace to progressives. nt

[Mags]

9. Can Obama supporters answer these questions honestly?

[AllexxisF1]

21. Ok...I will.

1) The clips you see over and over again on tv Obama was not present in the congrigation.

2) He let him go last week.

3) Danny should really learn to comprehend speeches instead of just hearing them. Wrights words are not Obama's words.

4) Since when is God Damn rise to the same vulgar level as Ni**er?

5) Obama gave a VERY thorough explaination on his view in this matter. He explained his position in detail ...what more do you want?

[jgraz]

29. What more do they want? They want a racist backlash against Obama

That's the only way their craptastic candidate can win.

[cboy4]

66. I thought I saw you post a thread of party unity a couple

of days ago of the speech?

Was that a misprint or something?

Because now, I'm reading you use an inflammatory word like "craptastic."

I don't think you have multiple personalities, so why the change jgraz?

[jgraz]

69. I've never posted a thread advocating unity with race-baiters

I was advocating that we put them on ignore until Skinner gets around to tombstoning them.

So, if you don't like "craptastic", what word would you use for someone who blows a 40-point lead, wastes millions on worthless consultants, can't win a caucus to save her life and then whines about the rules and plays the race card once it's obvious she's lost? I'll happily choose a word more to your liking but for now, "craptastic" pretty much sums it up for me.

[cboy4]

78. I just did a search of your post history, and you are

a very aggressive writer with a lot of hate built up against a person who happens to be a Democrat.

You're obviously free to use all of the inflammatory words you want.

What's interesting is you think Obama can defeat McCain with a fractured Democratic Party.

You don't believe Obama needs every last vote of every single Democrat.

I can't remember if you're one of these people who are even encouraging Clinton supporters to just leave the Democratic Party if they can't get over it.

But the bottom line is, you won't help defeat the Republicans with your foaming at the mouth hate speech.

[jgraz]

79. Like many Hillary supporters, you mistake anger and passion for hate.

if you've searched my posting history, you know that I've been one of the strongest advocates against sexist and racist hate speech. I don't like seeing it used against ANYONE.

But Hillary has earned the anger of Democrats, and I don't apologize for expressing it here. I've never suggested that Clinton supporters leave the Democratic Party, but I have asked more than a few of them to consider joining it.

[cboy4]

82. Yea, I know you've asked people to join it.....but that's

kinda like teasing the black mamba and then asking it to consider not to bite you.

I think Obama is a horrible candidate and I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

However, I don't hate him and treat him like garbage the way you do with Hillary Clinton.

It'll be interesting to hear what you have to say if Obama turns out to be the nominee and loses to McCain in the GE.

But I know what I'll say.

[jgraz]

83. I don't know what you'll say if Obama loses to McCain, but I know what Hillary will say.

Mission Accomplished.

[dionysus]

11. wait, isn't that guy a clinton hack?

[julialnyc]

12. This coming from Joe Lieberman's #1 supporter.... whatever

[Larkspur]

13. Lanny Davis is a DLC a**hole

Rev. Wright, unlike Falwell and Robertson, is speaking from the same tradition as his namesake, the Prophet Jeremiah. The prophets of ancient Israel railed and ranted against the corrupt ruling class of their day and use provocative and in some cases "unpatriotic" language to evoke God's disgust at Israel's corruption. I'm sure that Lanny Davis knows that Israel drove the prophet Jeremiah out of Israel for his incendiary language, but that act did not save Israel from the brutal fate awaiting it.

Falwell and Robertson speak from the tradition of the hypocritical Pharisees, the ones who persecuted the prophets and Jesus. Unlike Rev. Wright who castigates the ruling elite, Falwell and Robertson defend the corrupt ruling class and attack those who challenge the elites that help fund their bank accounts and egos.

[truebrit71]

14. Lanny Davis is a tool....Why hasn't John McCain been asked the same questions?

So my question to that noble honky advocate of equal rights, Lanny Davis, is why hasn't anyone asked John McCain the same questions about HIS religious advisers and endorsers? You know, the ones that call the Catholic church the "fat whore", or Islam as the "false religion"...you know...those xenophobic bigotted assholes...

Is he getting the benefit of the doubt simply because he is white, or is he getting the pass because he is the gop nominee?

Lanny Davis a hypocrite and a tool....

Who gives a Cheney what he thinks anyway...

[KittyWampus]

18. Why hasn't Hillary?

[TeamJordan23]

15. Do you really want to be proud of Lanny Davis, who once Leiberman's tool. nm

[gabeana]

16. Its on

Now its time for the obama campaign to bring up the Christain Fellowship "the Family"

The Family avoids the word Christian but worship Jesus, though not the Jesus who promised the earth to the "meek." They believe that, in mass societies, it's only the elites who matter, the political leaders who can build God's "dominion" on earth. Insofar as the Family has a consistent philosophy, it's all about power - cultivating it, building it, and networking it together into ever-stronger units, or "cells." "We work with power where we can," Doug Coe has said, and "build new power where we can't."


"the Family takes credit for some of Clinton's rightward legislative tendencies, including her support for a law guaranteeing "religious freedom" in the workplace, such as for pharmacists who refuse to fill birth control prescriptions and police officers who refuse to guard abortion clinics."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barbara-ehrenreich/hillar...

[juajen]

97. Ain't it the truth? Bring on the religious and race wars. We know

that this was what this election was all about from the beginning, right?

:sarcasm:

Last time I looked, both blacks and whites are hurting in my community, and the catholic church is serving food, offering beds and aid to the homeless and poor no matter their race. Other churches in our community of other religions are doing the same. I know of no church that is spewing hatred of any other race, no matter what color.

No one denies that there is a lot of work still to do for civil rights for blacks as well as well as other races, but do we really want to burn all of our progress at the stake of electing Barack Obama? I see another agenda at work here, I'm just not sure what it is.

The object of this election has always been to get rid of the neo-cons and restore some type of dignity to our country. Now we are facing the pit of depression, a morally despicable war, and global warming, and, it is even more vital that we have some proven leaders, and I will pit the Clintons' experience against Obama's one year in the senate any day of the week. Yes, I used the plural of Clinton, as we did when Bill was first elected. I never expected them to be perfect, just more perfect than anyone else running.


Somewhere in lala land a lot of people have left their brains to be coated in racial aggression for the sake of a man they barely know, one who is imperfect and barely vetted. His color is not BLACK, but GREEN, and he, in deeds as well as words, needs ripening.

[not_too_L8]

19. If the historical rolls of blacks and whites were reversed....

you would not be asking those questions

[EffieBlack]

50. Thank you!

If you're going to reverse "white" and "black" in this specific context, you have to switch "white" and "black" throughout our history in order for it to have any meaning.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

20. how patronizing of you "Lanny", but who gives a shit what you think

your candidate is behind in delegates, votes and is trending down in superdelegates.

Worse, your candidate's 35 years of experience in include losing the democratic majority in congress.

No thanks.

[NJmaverick]

24. Those are not questions

Those are assinine talking points.

[malik flavors]

25. Lanny is my most hated Clinton Surrogate. He NEVER shuts up when he's on CNN

Just shut up for a second Lenny!

It's no suprise that he's the only CLinton person to attack OBama over Wright.

Such an obnoxious jerk.

[indimuse]

26. Good ??'s

k&r for reality!

[VolcanoJen]

27. Two Questions for Lanny Davis

1. Hey, Lanny, is your boy Joe Lieberman going to be McCain's VP? He's handy to have around, to whisper in ears and whatnot.

2. Hey, Lanny, remember when Democrats fought their Democratic primary campaign opponents over things like issues, and voting records, rather than something someone who is not the candidate said?

[SoCalDem]

80. Question #1 for Lanny( Lannie?, I've seen it both ways)

Does it hurt when you shed your skin?

Question #2
Do you grow a new rattle every time you shed your skin?

[Political Heretic]

30. Question number one is ludicrous. This flap is only bringing out the racism in white america.

Rev. Wright told the truth. Some people don't like the way he did it, that he dared to be forceful rather than saying "yessir massah sir" and apologetically trying to water down and sugar coat the truth.

He didn't hurl racial epithets at white people. He simply told the truth. Rich white men DO hold the power in the country. And neither Hillary Clinton nor any other white person will ever - ever - share the experience of black oppression.

So there are no statements of Wright, fiery or not, hyperbolic or not, that can be compared to the KKK. None. There is no word that Wright used that can be compared to the "N" word because he didn't use any.

The uproar is due to a white media and a white political culture angry at an "uppity" black man who dared to not hold his hat in his hand and be all apologetic when speaking somewhere that whites might hear him.

Living through American history in which black people had the shit beat out of them for drinking out of the wrong drinking fountain, or got stung up in front of a cheering crowd for the crime of looking at a white woman funny means he's earned the right to be angry.

Question #2: hell yes, I would.

[BobbyVan]

36. Question one is entirely LEGITIMATE

But I might phrase it a bit differently.

Would Obama support a white candidate who attended a church where the pastor blamed AIDS on blacks?

[Political Heretic]

56. An entirely different, also illegitimate question

Wright didn't blame aids on the white race. He blamed it on government.

There is a lot of debate about the origin of AIDS, including a scientific acknowledgment that it doesn't behave like other natural viruses. Even if the government didn't engineer AIDS with the specific intent of having it cause havoc in the black community, the facts remains of AIDS being a disease that disproportionately affects black people.

If AIDS was killing rich white people or spreading through western europe like it is through africa, we would have had a cure a decade ago.

There's no similar comparison in your question. None. So there isn't anything hypocritical about rejecting a statement that says blacks created AIDS and defending a statement that suggests AIDS was created and allowed to devastate black people in large part because they are black and not white.

[goletian]

68. of course he would...

...if whites and blacks reversed their histories of privilege and oppression, respectively. of course he would.

if whites were enslaved for hundreds of years, treated like second class citizens after they were freed, still discriminated against to this very day, if they were part of the tuskegee experiments and faced all the same BULLSHIT blacks have gone through, a pastor saying crazy shit about blacks would be understandable.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

72. That would depend on why he thought it was the fault of blacks

Most likely the white pastor would be attributing it to some innate flaw or cultural moral failure within the black community. Which is the most likely scenario because the thought of black people in America creating a virus in order to deliberately infect their own community is ludicrous.

So the answer is yes, it would be different.

[Leopolds Ghost]

100. So you're saying, if a white pastor blamed AIDS on inner city moral failings? But that's UNTHINKABLE

Of course the WHITE candidate would SHUN such a pastor and
Talking Heads would play their clips DAY after DAY after DAY.

Feel the racist double standard forming the words of rebuttal
in your mouth, Lanny Davis Hillary folks.

Go ahead, say it. "That's different. Of course we reject it.
But they're expected to get away with it.

"That's not the ISSUE.
When blacks say it it becomes an ISSUE."

"When McCain folks or Hillary supporters do it,
it is merely quietly tsk-tsk."

[olkaz]

34. Poor Lanny.

Seriously, those are stupid questions. Reading that was like listening to a caller from Lars Larsen's radio show.

Amazes me anybody sees anything but raw stupidity in this.

[Me.]

37. Dear Lanny

It ain't working, she's still behing in the numbers

[mrreowwr_kittty]

42. Fuck you Lanny Davis

Fuck your whiny, entitled, pasty white ass. Fuck you for falsely equating the angry words of a 71 year old African American man with those of a KKK member. If you can't see the difference, you don't deserve to be called a progressive.

Lanny Davis, Asswipe.

[question everything]

43. Excellent points. On these pages, several Obama supporters brought up

the Southern racially driven churches and sermons. But, of course, we, Democrats, do not have a member of these churches as a candidate for the nomination. Similarly, several DUers have been posted - with relish, almost - horrific photos of lynched blacks. What does this have to do with a candidate who wants to transcend race?

It is as bad as when too man blacks cheered the acquittal of O.J. Simpson because so many innocent blacks were jailed and executed, so it was "payback" time. I am not black and cannot begin to understand such strong feelings, but they certainly cannot be a basis for any national leadership.

[goletian]

71. obama thinks oj was guilty, and he disagrees with this black anger...

he understands it but does not identify with it. he is a NEW african american. his father was from kenya, obama didnt come from a line of slaves, or even a line of blacks that faced injustices from jim crow. they are not the basis for what his national leadership would be.

[Leopolds Ghost]

102. So transcending race means rejecting and denouncing black anger at continuing injustices?

[bicentennial_baby]

44. Ah, the Clinton Camp finally gets down and dirty publically

Nice move Senator. Maybe you can get Stephanie Tubbs-Jones on it too...Classy.

[Leopolds Ghost]

103. She got a couple black megapastors in on it. One defended Hagee and Falwell as irrelevant

Because "he's dead."

Another went further, using language not heard since the 1950s:

"It is now time for Obama to repudiate any and all religious beliefs
that are against the national interest of this great nation, the USA."

[shraby]

45. Why should Obama answer to what white pastors say

in their pulpits? They already have made terrible statements and the news media has a blurb and it's gone. To wit: Pat Robertson "assassinate Chavez", "gays to blame for..pick your disaster"; Dobson, Hagee and a myriad of other prominent pastors have made other outrageous statements which are deserving of endless loops also.

[BobbyVan]

47. The problem is that Obama has no moral authority to condemn statements like those now.

He lost it when he waited to condemn Wright's statements until they blew up in his face.

[Oilwellian]

81. Wow, there's that "moral authority" line again

I've seen it a lot lately by new posters. Now what party lays claim to that phrase?

[Leopolds Ghost]

104. turnabout is fair play... idiots. the moral authority meme is a suicide pact.

[global1]

46. Well Mr. Self-Rightous Lanny Davis - Do You Laugh At Off-Color Comedians........

I listen to all the self-rightous talk about how Bad Rev. Wrights words are yet - the other night while I was flipping my cable TV channels I came across a black comic that was making racial, political, anti-american, religious, gender, gay jokes - using the "N" word as if it was going out of style - and the audience was filled with people - both black and white - laughing and applauding this guy - just having a grand old time.

They paid to go hear this guy in person and we pay for our cable TV that put these people on for our entertainment. This happened to be a black entertainer - but I'm sure there are white, yellow, brown, jewish, etc entertainers out there that are just as nasty and politically incorrect. We laugh at what these people say. We take their insults as being funny.

Yet a lot of people - both black and white - jump on this sort of stuff as it applies to a presidential candidate.

They pretend that they are shocked by what they heard a Geraldine Farraro or Rev. Wright say.

Yet in a different context - they sit there and laugh at this politically incorrect sort of stuff put out by comedians.

To me - George W. Bush the other day singing a song and laughing about the crimes his administration is far worse than anything a Rev. Wright or Farraro could say. Or how about Cheney when responding to a reporter that the American people no longer support this war in Irag - he says "So?".

Why do we let Bush & Cheney get away with this - yet jump on Wright or Farraro - Barack or Hillary?

Why is this sort of thing right sometimes and not others. Why are the American people so hypocritical? Why are you so hypocritical? What am I missing here?

After listening and being moved by Barack Obama's speech the other day and then seeing this on cable TV - it was quite a 180 degree swing.

And then to hear self-rightous surrogates trying to smear someone that walks the walk and talks the talk.

Our choice for this nomination is between a consummate politician and a true statesman. I want a statesman to lead this country after what *Co has done to it. So Mr. Davis - keep asking your inane and divisive questions. I'm sure you are doing this not really for Hillary - but for what Hillary will throw to you should she win. You are only out after what you can get out of a Hillary administration - and don't really care about what really counts.

[LeFleur1]

62. Tendencies of Obama Supporters On This Forum

Are these people really Obama supporters? I doubt it. They won't answer a question, but use right wing tactics. They attack the questioner, appearing to hope the original question will get lost in the rage that is exhibited. They act much like an abusive partner in a relationship.

I am trying to decide whether or not I will vote for Obama if he gets the nomination. I have not been very impressed with his answers to questions on policy, although I did think his speech on his minister's racism was intelligent and interesting. It did leave some questions unanswered, but he is right, we cannot go forward unless we come together, which is absolutely not what his minister preached. And it is not what his supporters on this forum advocate.

The kind of people, on this forum, who embrace him while viciously, personally attacking anyone with a quesiton concerning his policies makes me wonder if he is like that, too. Do birds of a feather flock together? I certainly wouldn't support anyone who is as antagonistic and mean spirited as the posters on this site.

I'm sure these questions will be answered in an array of FUs and STFU and NAZI, and other standard name calling. One thing these Obama supporters are very good at is cussing and attacking and trying to limit free thought and free speech. They aren't very creative, though.

[TeamJordan23]

48. How can he compare the KKK to all the good social work that Wright and Trinity Church have done. nm

[NJSecularist]

54. Lanny, get some pride.

Stop following the Clintons around like you are their lap dog. Get your own job.

[maximusveritas]

55. Lanny needs to be kicked out of the party

after he helped Lieberman and made outrageously incorrect accusations about the liberal blogospher being anti-Semitic. This is just the latest outrage.

[JoFerret]

58. And sad for ALL of us - it will be in the Fall

and maybe by then it will be too little too late.

[Nickster]

59. self delete

[David__77]

64. This person is seriously trying to compare Wright to a KKK member? Outrageous.

There is no basis at all to make that comparison. None at all. Wright is clearly an ANTI-RACIST.

[Dhalgren]

76. I agree with you completely. I really like Reverend Wright, and

agree with most of what he has said. But, you do agree that there are quite a few white folks out there that view these things very differently, right? The problem for Senator Obama is he has to put this bullshit issue behind him, in some fashion, with the very white folks who may have a problem with this issue. I cannot believe that any "progressive" or "liberal" would think of this issue as anything but bullshit - I just don't buy it. But, if Obama is planning on drawing non-progressives and non-liberals into his camp, he will need to do something more than he has done so far, won't he?

[Mz Pip]

67. You answered your own questions, Lanny

You said that you believe that there isn't a shred of Senator Obama's being that shares these hateful or bigoted feelings.

Wright isn't running for President. Obama is. You are willing to use Wright's words against him, all the while saying that you know Obama really doesn't feel that way. So what's your point Lanny? Rather than condemn those who play this guilt by association card, you try to have it both ways.

You had an opportunity to stand up for the principles of the Democratic Party and you blew it.

[zulchzulu]

73. The difference between what Wright said and what some KKK guy would say

Not that I agree with everything Wright said in his sermons, but chances are that I would at least partially agree with what he said.

Wright's messages point out the racism in our society. Is that wrong? Wright points out that Hillary Clinton has never been called a ni*&er. He's correct. To compare his messages to how it might be different with someone who has KKK opinions is not a fair analysis. Clearly, for the KKK to say that the white race is the superior race and that slavery was correct is WRONG.

The near impossibility of a Democrat who would go to a church aligned with the KKK and the sheer unlikely position that that Democrat would have a KKK-flavored religious figure on the "Religious Advisory Committee" of his or her presidential campaign makes the "argument" dubious in the first place.

[mzmolly]

77. Question for Lanny - What word was akin to the "N" word?

What rhetoric was akin to that of the KKK?

Specific quotes please.

[Dr Fate]

86. Lanny is confused. He must think that McCain's supporters never say that word.

According to his distorted spin, it is apparently Obama and progressives who use that kind of language day in and day out, not the average voter/supporter in the Republican base.

But will Lanny or Clinton ask McCain to disown these people, or even discuss them? Dont hold your breath.

[mzmolly]

92. Indeed. Who disowned Jerry Falwell when he made ABSURD/BIGOTED comments about 911?

:shrug:

[Dr Fate]

94. The DLC certainly wont attempt to associate McCain's base with the "N" Word. Count on that.

No-no-no- that would sound "far left"- better to attack the bi-racial progressive/moderate as the "real racist."

[Dr Fate]

84. Will Lanny/Clinton demand that McCain disown all Republicans who have ever uttered the N word?

No- of course not.

A DLC supporter would never DARE accuse a conservative of racism by association, that accusation is reserved for a progressive of mixed race.

[jeffrey_X]

85. dumb

eom

[Ysabel]

87. Constitution Article VI: No Religious Test Shall Ever Be Required As a Qualification To Any Office

thread started by AtomicKitten:

Constitution Article VI: No Religious Test Shall Ever Be Required As a Qualification To Any Office

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5079625

--------

- however "The Family" is fair game...

[Ysabel]

88. p.s. i almost alerted on this entire thread however i don't like tattle tailing...

- the entire thread being a violation...

(edited to add extra comment)

p.p.s. signed: totally sick of religious talk (i'm atheist)...

[Dr Fate]

90. And Lanny/Clinton will honor that when it comes to NOT attacking McCain's fundamentalist ties.

Just watch- there will be no demands from the Clinton camp that the McCain/Bush party disown or discuss the fact that it is Republican supporters who do indeed use the N word, not Obama or his preacher.

Clinton's surrogates apply the same double standard that the GOP and media use- Obama must be attacked and somehow associated with "the N-word"- but their fellow "moderates"-the McCain Republicans who actually use that word will never be discussed or held to the same standard.

[jeffrey_X]

89. Has the Trinity church ever demonstrated in public against white people?

have they ever organized other protests or other physical activities against white people?

outside of some sound bytes, what else can possibly be connected???

[stillcool]

91. Question # 1....

Asked and Answered:

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Vote2008/Story?id=4480133&page=2

MORAN: Well, let me press you on that. If I went to a church where white supremacy was preached, what would you think of me?

OBAMA: Well, but, see, I disagree with you, though, Terry. That's not what's preached at Trinity. And that, I think, that is an easy equivalence that is not at all what is taking place there.

If you look at the sermons, even the most offensive ones that are at issue, he is condemning white racism, as he defines it, but he is not condemning the white race. He is not suggesting that blacks are superior. What he's saying is, is that this -- that white racism is endemic in the society.

Now, that's something that I disagree with and I said in this speech today. And it's reflective of, I think, an anger and bitterness that is part of the black community's experience. It is a legacy of our past that isn't going away anytime soon. But in each successive generation, it hopefully lessens its grip.

And he has, in some ways, he has reason to be angry and bitter. I mean, here's somebody who grew up in the '50s and the '60s. He's gone through things that you and I never went through.

And so I think what was revealing in this whole episode was the degree to which I think large portions of white America were shocked or surprised that a lot of black people are still really angry about slavery and Jim Crow and segregation and discrimination, absolutely.

And I pointed out in the speech, that anger isn't necessarily healthy. In fact, often times it's self-destructive. More often, it is internalized in all kinds of ways. I mean, that's part of what we see in the inner city, where that anger and bitterness is turned inward, and kids shoot each other and take drugs and end up in jail sometimes.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

93. I would love to hear Obama's answers

[Dr Fate]

98. His answers to Lanny/Hillary/DLC, or his answers to McCain?

It's clear that Lanny/DLC wants to somehow compare Obama's views with the N word and KKK tactics- but it's not clear whether McCain will disparage his own base-and open his base's closely held views on race- by projecting common conservative language & feelings onto Obama as a negative thing.

If McCain really wants to talk about who does and does not say the N Word or historically supports the Klan and other racist Christian fundamentalist organizations, then I think Obama would have the upper hand in that one.

If it's just Lanny/Hillary/DLCers trying to somehow associate Obama with the N word & the KKK with these questions, then his speech makes his feelings clear.

Check it out- so far, McCain's postition is to not use this to attack Obama-it's Hillary's surrogates who wants to him compared to the KKK and people who say the N word:

http://thepage.time.com/2008/03/20/mccain-aide-suspended-for-circulating-obama-wright-video/

[madfloridian]

96. Lanny and Hillary...will they destroy a pastor to win the WH again?

Yes, I think they will.

[Leopolds Ghost]

99. You don't want an answer to this, do you? Because that answer would involve McCain

And his racist, right wing nutjob spiritual advisors / religious
campaign committee that is thoroughly attached to the Republican
party apparatus, not to mention David Duke.

[Leopolds Ghost]

101. McCain Allies BLAMED AIDS ON INNER CITY MORAL FAILINGS. Hillary: "So?"

[RoadRage]

105. I don't think it's fair to compare Wright to the KKK..

Listen to the speech. Obama disagreed with what Wright said, but he also made a good (and in my opinion valid) point that Wright comes froma different time. Frankly, a time with the KKK lit black churches on fire, and tortured people just because they were black. Blacks weren't doing that back to whites. They were just trying to get some damn rights.

Black people have lived through some pretty horrible shit, and that frames some of the (albiet not nice) feelings that Rev. Wright and others share during their church services.

But what excuse do KKK members have? They were most likely born into wealth and want to keep the title of "superior over all other races". Where does their anger come from?

No, i'm sorry - but you're not comparing similar backgrounds or situations. Both are not good - but one at least has a plausible foundation while the other absolutely doesn not.

[jackson_dem]

106. Has Obama stepped out to the plate yet?

[McCamy Taylor]

107. False comparison. Anger is a natural step in the grieving process of oppressed people

When someone like Rev. Wright uses anger in his ministry, he is helping victims of systematic oppression voice long buried emotions so that they can work through their sense of loss--loss of fairness, loss of security, loss of all the good things that were denied to them growing up in a country with a double standard.

Read "The Autobiography of Malcolm X" and you will understand.

The goal is not the anger. The goal is to finally reach a state of mourning and then acceptance and then you move on as Brother Malcolm did when he reached Mecca and discovered universal brotherhood. Rev. Wright is not filled with anger. He is filled with love. That is why he leads his congregation through the steps that will free them.

Any Church that parroted the teachings of the KKK would be nothing but a prop for fascists---a pretend religion used to back up a system of oppression used to keep one class of society working for reduced wages in order to benefit the capitalist---which is what sexism, racism and all the other -isms are all about.

That is like comparing apples and oranges.

[jackson_dem]

109. Any reply from Obama on these questions that would come up if he is the nominee in the GE?

[dansolo]

110. It seems obvious to me that Lanny Davis did not listen to Rev. Wright's entire sermon

He should listen to the entire sermon before casting judgment.