Obama pastor backs gay rights

[cboy4]

Rev. Wright supported gay ministry, but failed to adopt ‘affirming’ status for church



By LOU CHIBBARO JR., The Washington Blade | Mar 20, 10:12 AM


Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama’s controversial ex-pastor in Chicago has largely supported gay rights and has welcomed gays into his 8,000-member congregation at Trinity United Church of Christ, according to activists who know him.

<snip>

With Obama competing with rival presidential contender Hillary Clinton for gay votes in the upcoming Pennsylvania primary, revelations of Wright’s controversial sermons have raised questions among some activists about whether Obama’s longtime pastor was among the preachers who delivered fire-and-brimstone sermons attacking homosexuality.

“Absolutely not, said Rick Garcia, political director of Equality Illinois, the Chicago-based state gay rights group. Trinity has been among the strongest supporters of LGBT rights," Garcia said. “I have the highest regard and admiration for Rev. Wright.”

<snip>

But the Rev. Ruth Garwood, executive director of the United Church of Christ Coalition for GLBT Concerns, said that while Trinity Church has the reputation of being gay-supportive, Wright and other church officials never accepted an invitation from her office to become an official UCC “open and affirming” congregation for the GLBT community.

At least three other UCC churches in Chicago have adopted the “open and affirming” status and more than 100 UCC churches throughout the U.S. have adopted the status, as have churches in other denominations.

http://www.washblade.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=17266

United Church of Christ Backs Same-Sex Marriage

Rev. John H. Thomas, the president and general minister of the United Church of Christ, said that the vote is "a crucial and groundbreaking first word in a difficult but important churchwide discussion."


By SHAILA DEWAN
Published: July 5, 2005

ATLANTA, July 4 - The United Church of Christ became the first mainline Christian denomination to support same-sex marriage officially when its general synod passed a resolution on Monday affirming "equal marriage rights for couples regardless of gender."
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Ric Feld/Associated Press

Rev. John H. Thomas, the president and general minister of the United Church of Christ, said that the vote is "a crucial and groundbreaking first word in a difficult but important churchwide discussion."

The resolution was adopted in the face of efforts to amend the Constitution to ban same-sex marriage. It was both a theological statement and a protest against discrimination, said the Rev. John H. Thomas, the president and general minister of the denomination, which has 6,000 congregations and 1.3 million members.

"On this July 4, the United Church of Christ has courageously acted to declare freedom, affirming marriage equality, affirming the civil rights of gay - of same-gender - couples to have their relationships recognized as marriages by the state, and encouraging our local churches to celebrate those marriages," Mr. Thomas said at a news conference after the vote by the General Synod.

The synod's decisions are not binding and the vote will not require pastors to provide marriage ceremonies for same-sex couples. Some United Church of Christ ministers already perform such ceremonies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/05/national/05church.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[LostinVA]

1. And yet, Obama cites his "religion" as the reason he's against same-sex marriage

[cboy4]

3. That's why I posted this, of course. There should be no

reason, other than he doesn't have the guts to come out for it.

It's politics first. Civil rights somewhere after.

[LostinVA]

7. If we're good, maybe we can get "basic rights"

[Lucky 13]

5. And the Clintons have done so much for queers?

Please. Don't Ask Don't Tell? DOMA?

If it's the unknown vs. THAT track record... I'll take the unknown.

[LostinVA]

6. You show a a lack of knowledge of the history surrounding the passage of those laws

Not to mention, Hillary isn't Bill.

I don't know you, so don't call me queer.

And the known is that, Obama is willing to have Ex Gay Clowns campaign for him. The Ex Gay Movement kills people.

[Lucky 13]

14. Whoa. Slow down there partner.

1) I didn't call you queer. I asked what the Clintons have done to aid the queer community. If you don't consider yourself part of it, fine. whatever. identify however you want. But it's a commonly acceptable word within the gay community that I used in a respectful attempt to be all inclusive of gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transgenders, transsexuals, transvestites, cross-dressers, and any other group I have failed to mention. The word "gay" just doesn't encompass all I was trying to say.

2) No I don't know you, so if it's a qualifier in the use of the word "queer", let's change that. Hi. I'm Mandy. I'm 30. I live in VT (temporarily). I'm originally from Northern Virginia. I'm a lesbian. My partner and I have been together for 6 years next month. Nice to meet you. Listen, we're all on the same team here. The last thing I want is to have an ugly argument with another gay person. You and I probably have more in common than either of us do with our chosen candidates, so let's play nice.

3) If you believe I have a lack of knowledge of the history surrounding the passage of those laws, I would actually genuinely like to be enlightened. I'll be the first to admit when I'm not an expert on something and I'm not on this. But from all I know of it, I have a hard time seeing how either of those policies have helped queer America or how the history of it could change that perception. And not to oversimplify, but what has she ever done for us?

4) I don't know the details of ex-gay support for Barack. Again, please, if you have the time enlighten me. Or point me in the right direction of the info. I'm not one of these people who gets behind a candidate and refuses to acknowedge their faults and automatically disregards all arguements from the other side.

5) If anyone knows about the destructiveness of the Ex Gay Movement it's me. I've been up to my fucking eye balls in it and it doesn't just almost kill PEOPLE. It almost killed ME. And yes, most of them are jacked up hypocritical motherfuckers. But there are some, like my parents, for example, that are not inherently evil... just horribly misguided, ignorant, and closeminded... just like the people Barack has described in his own life. I identified with that part of his speech big time.

Look, we lost any true pro-gay candidates long ago. Neither Hillary or Barack was my first choice by a long shot. And I'll be the first to admit that I don't trust Barack any more than I do Hillary on this particular issue. But of the two, I gotta go for the guy that actively promotes inclusiveness, unity and hope (key principals in my own survival as a lesbian in America) vs. some of the ugliness and divisiveness that I've seen from the other side.

If you have the time to write back about these things, I'd genuinely like to hear what you have to say.

Peace.

[cboy4]

15. What is your take on the Donnie McClurkin issue?

Obama allowed this idiot, who refers to homosexuality as abnormal and a curse, to headline perform at a campaign event.

It was obviously for political reasons.

It doesn't worry you that Obama might change, or at least suspend, some of his pro-gay stances if it's politically necessary in the future?

I'm curious.

Because for me, forget the betrayal for a second, surrounding McClurkin.

For me, it comes down to trust.

[Lucky 13]

17. Ok... you asked.... so here's my take...

(I apologize right off the bat for the length of this post)

As I said, I don't particularly trust either of them when it comes to gay rights. There were several other candidates I preferred initially to these two. But here's how I justify support of Barack over Hillary with regards to this issue... at least in my own twisted mind.

First, I recommend reading this interview with Obama from The Advocate:
http://advocate.com/news_detail_ektid50021.asp

If there's one thing I KNOW in my heart, it's that Barack is committed to inclusiveness and diversity and the "big tent" policy. I truly believe that this is a man who will meet people where ever they're at. And he understands discrimination in a way that perhaps no other candidate in the past has. He ain't perfect by any means, but he's a step in the right direction.

Secondly, I believe his voting record backs up his support of gays. I don't know of any vote he's cast or policy he supports that HARMS gay people. If he has, I'd love for you to provide me with that information. Compare that to the Clintons' "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy and DOMA. Did they help gay people? Most would say it HARMED gay people.

Now with regards to Mr. McClurkin... The man sang a song. He did not give a sermon on the divinity of the Ex-gay movement. If he had been actually involved in the campaign or SPOKE about anything substantive or Barack indicated his views aligned with this joker, I'd be disturbed... but the dude just sang a song and will return to the confused tortured misguided oblivion from which he came.

Maybe it's a cynical view to take, but I just think 99.9% of people are fallible, often hypocritical, and generally damaged. Myself included. And if I happened to be a "surrogate" for anyone, I'd get raked over the coals... gay, once briefly affiliated with an ex-gay group, resulting mental trauma, super happy gay comeback, drug user, civil disobedience, consistently outrageously stupid statements, drunken college incidents, and more "indiscretions" than I will ever admit to. So I only associate surrogates with candidates so far.

Example: I believe Geraldine Ferraro's statements were outlandishly STUPID and RACIST. (I realize many disagree with this but that's not the main point...) The point is that just because that woman greatly offended me and thousands of others, I do not, in turn, believe that Hillary Clinton is a racist.

But how can we trust Hillary? We have PROOF that she lied about her positions on policies like NAFTA. I haven't seen any PROOF Obama has lied about anything. As far as trusting a candidate won't lie to me.... I wouldn't trust Hillary not to sell her own mother out if it meant it would increase her advantage in one way or another.

And then there's the UGLINESS of the whole campaign. I do believe there was some race-baiting going on by her campaign. I also believe she's playing a dirty campaign tactic to accuse Obama of the very filth that she was the actual culprit of. And I believe that she is trying to be divisive because she is counting on the sometimes prejudiced white vote in Pennsylvania and West Virginia. True or not, imagined or not, that is the message I've gotten from her campaign and I did NOT always feel this way.

Actively participating, even in a simply enabling way, in pitting the races against each other for personal gain is MORALLY REPREHENSIBLE. And if she can do that, there's no doubt in my mind she'd pit Gays against Conservatives... as long as it benefitted in some way for her.

So yeah, for me it comes down to trust too

[Bluebear]

18. 'The man sang a song. He did not give a sermon on the divinity of the Ex-gay movement.' - WRONG.

He was the emcee, not a "song singer", and finished the Obama event with a half hour sermon of how "God saved him from homosexuality".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dUp16hFzY8

[Lucky 13]

19. You are 100% correct.

I apologize. As I stated before, I'm not expert on this issue and I hadn't seen that clip or read very much about this...

And it does give me pause... but do you think Obama knew he was going to say this? Do you think this is a view Obama subscribes to any more than Geraldine's bullshit is something that Hillary subscribes to?

McClurkin also said this: "We don’t have to agree on everything, but we do have to agree on the main thing: that there needs to be change and I believe he is the candidate to bring it.” Indicates to me he recognizes Obama is socially liberal and he is socially conservative, but there are larger issues at play here.

In someways, I think this is just an example of Obama's "big tent" policy. All who are crying out for CHANGE are welcome. That doesn't mean he'll agree with you or vote your way - conservatively or liberally.

Maybe the point is that it doesn't have to be US vs. THEM. Why can't it be all of us? If there are some conservatives that have finally woken up and realized the past 8 years have been a fucking disaster and they recognize we need a change, and liberals recognize we need a change... then aren't we on the same team? Individual social issues aside? Are there not pro-life Democrats and pro-choice Republicans? If there are conservatives out there that are looking for an alternative to the corruption of the Republican party, I say welcome aboard.

Would I have made the choice to have Donnie McClurkin involved at all with anything? Absolutely Not. But had my conservative family been there to hear that you can be Christian, and against homosexuality, and still vote for anyone other than a Republican... it might have gotten them to consider him as an option over McCain (whom they hate). I know I'll never change my parents mind about gays. I gave up on that long ago. The best I can hope for them is that they will someday eventually realize that voting Republican is not, by definition the "Christian thing to do". I hope that at least someday they'll see that Republicans don't care about the middle class. They'll sell you out for corporations. They'll run this country into the ground financially. They'll start erroneous wars. They'll commit crime after crime and pardon each other. They'll do the work of the lobbyists. And in the end, almost NONE of their actions are truly Christian.

It's a nice thought.

I don't know. I'll shut up now.

[Texas Hill Country]

12. Hillary is a VERY active supporter of Gay Rights.

I have a friend on the HRC in NY and she has marched WITH Hillary in many a parade.

[The Night Owl]

2. I don't see anything about Pastor Wright in the NY Time article. {EOM}

[cboy4]

4. The NYT article is a background piece show that the

church Obama belongs to supports same sex marriage.

So why doesn't Obama?

[PM7nj]

10. Too controversial.

I wish he would, but unfortunately I think the issue is just too controversial in America. No major presidential candidate will come out in support of gay marriage. Sad but true.

[cboy4]

11. Why? People are going to base their ultimate decision

on whether he (or any other candidate) supports people of the same sex signing some document that doesn't affect a single straight person?

Seems like abortion is a more explosive issue, yet candidates don't seem to have any trouble going on the record supporting choice, even though they risk alienating a certain segment of society.

[tishaLA]

8. Sen Obama also supports gay rights

I do wonder what the TUCC's policy is about marriage equality though.

[xchrom]

9. recommend -- the church -- wrights church for all that

it has welcomed lgbtq folk failed to adopt the open and affirming status.

barack uses anti-gay folk to advance his campaign -- in his church speeches he talks about loving the sinner and hating the sin in partial reference to gay folk.

i remain in the NObama camp.

[malik flavors]

13. I thought Wright was full of hatred for all mankind. Atleast thats the impression i got from the MSM

[Prophet 451]

16. The MSM has never grasped the difference between hatred and anger n/t