Important Hypothetical situation for Obama supporters.

[GarbagemanLB]

The Clinton camp is now pushing the Wright story on the Superdelegates to get them to go over to her side. If the nomination is determined by Superdelegates turning against the pledged delegate leader, will you vote for her in the general?

I have always said this: If Obama drops out, or loses the popular vote, I will support the Democratic candidate in the general election. However, if this election is basically determined by the fear-mongering and bigotry that is now apparently being pushed by the Clinton camp, I will vote for a third-party candidate in the Presidential election ( Of course I will vote for Democrats down-ticket). What say the other Obama supporters?

[Sherman A1]

1. Interesting

I am a DK Supporter who did vote for Obama in the primary as DK had dropped out by that time for me. I will really have to make that decision when the time comes, although I do very much understand your point. I found HRC and BO to both be far too conservative for me, but as the race winnows itself down to the final choice from the bigger field I picked Obama. HRC is my last choice, but I still see her better than any Republican out there.

So back to your question.... I really can't say at this point.

[Joe the Revelator]

2. Hillary will never get my vote

as a life long democrat, I don't vote for Republicans or those who engage in their type of politics.

[JuniperLea]

12. That is the sickest, most childish post I've ever seen...

And unfortunately, there are a lot of people just like you... it's called Kool Aid poisoning.

You'd rather have four more years than to get a Dem, any Dem, in the White House.

That is simply appalling.

[GarbagemanLB]

17. When Hillary uses the same tactics as this current administration? Dishonest, secrets, manipulation.

[JuniperLea]

23. It's called politics and it's all legal

It stinks, and it's ugly, but it's all within the game-book.

Hillary has done some back-handed things, no doubt. But I think she is working the system. If Obama comes in fighting like everyone expects, he is going to make so many enemies he'll never get anything done. Hillary is working the system, for better or worse, and that tact just might work a lot better.

Regardless, Hillary in the White House, with all the alleged trickery, is still a far better situation than having McCain there! And what you are proposing to do is going to guarantee McCain a win!

[JVS]

27. Withholding one's vote is also politics and legal. Suck it up.

[JuniperLea]

30. It's stupid to allow a Republican to win

Simply because you want to say neener neener to the Democrats! Fucking stupid as all hell.

[JVS]

33. Sorry but there is a limit to what some of us are capable of supporting.

The filth of the Clinton campaign has eroded any moral claim they can make for my vote.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Yes We Did]

62. I thought Hillary was a republican... She votes like one.

And technically she used to be one before she married bill. Also, she has taken more oil money than any other candidate.

If it looks like duck and smells like a duck... it's an elephant.

[Tresalisa]

82. I agree with you 100%,

and I WILL be voting for the nominee. The fact remains, though, that each person has the right to do what they want to with their vote, whether you or I like it or not. That's as much a part of politics as candidates who will do whatever they can to win.

:hi:

[JuniperLea]

86. I agree... however...

It's against DU rules to support a Republican.

[wileedog]

38. McCain will beat her anyway in this scenario

The African American vote may abandon the Dems FOR GOOD. Huge numbers of younger voters who spent so much energy supporting Obama will be disillusioned, and probably not see a whole lot of difference between Clinton and McCain anyway. Lots more of us will simply never get involved again with a party that can casually throw our votes aside and pick whomever they want.

If Obama has the pledged delegates, more states and the popular vote, and she wins the nomination by begging, bribing, threatening, cajoling and fear-mongering the Superdelegates to toss all of that aside and get the nomination, that is about as close as you get to stealing.

Granted, not technically. Yes its legal. Yes the system is there. But the ramifications of that occurance extend FAR beyond this election, and Hillary well knows that and doesn't care.

This will have HUGE consequences if it happens for a long time to come, not just this election.

[JuniperLea]

46. Again with the crystal ball bullshit...

Don't you know that making shit up is a Rovian tactic? Can we stick to facts instead of guesses?

[JVS]

48. This whole thread is crystal ball bullshit in case you've noticed.

[wileedog]

56. What part do you disagree with?

Or do you not see the thousands of posts and comments about Hillary not just here but in many other forums who are ALREADY pissed off at her and she hasn't even pulled this off yet.

And if I can look into the ball once more with your permission, you don't think the media and the Republicans are going to have an absolute FIELD DAY with Democrat Party Insiders tossing aside the best chance and African American has ever had to become President because his preacher is whacky? You think Hillary is somehow going to come off as 'legitimate' in that scenario? Just a guess, of course.

I'll leave you to your fantasies of the SDs poaching it and everyone holding hands singing kumbuya and just feeling peachy about the wonderful Hillary Clinton who managed to torpedo the real winning candidate.

[JuniperLea]

59. I disagree with anything made up

This bullshit is made up... it's supposition... it's guesswork.

[Skidmore]

58. Not it's not politics in the gamebook for the Democratic party.

I will not support a candidate or a party that sanctions the use of racist tactics to win. Period.

[Leopolds Ghost]

93. "If Obama comes in fighting, he is going to make so many enemies he'll never get anything done"

Sounds like something Dixiecrat politicians -- Hillary's friends --
used to say about SCLC and SNCC in the 1950s-1970s.

[JVS]

94. Wait, what's this? I thought Hillary was supposed to be the "fighter", now she's...

the operator? How many reinventions must we suffer?

[Leopolds Ghost]

96. S/he's saying Obama is the uppity negro trying to come into white house and shake things up

"We're accustomed to moah courtly patterns heah in Washington,
if the negroes would only understand that politeness and
calculation is needed to get anything done. Why, he'll be
micegenatin' all over the place! This man violated a solemn
ritual! You see, I happen to be a member of a certain secret
society, I don't think I have to utter its name... Hey, it's
me, Hillary! Friend of the little man!"

:sarcasm:

[trueblue2007]

57. Obama is using Dishonest, secrets, manipulation too

Get over yourself and Obama. He is not PURE.

[GarbagemanLB]

66. Oh? His campaign released pictures of her to play on sexist fears? His campaign endorsed McCain over

her? Please! Provide me links!

[RunningFromCongress]

29. I think it's important that the Clinton legacy is that of a loser.

[JuniperLea]

32. And for that and a neener neener...

You'd rather see a Republican in the White House?

That is sick and fucking twisted.

[RunningFromCongress]

36. Yes. Period. After NH I wouldn't have cared if she won. Now Win-no-matter-what deserves to lose.

[JuniperLea]

50. Did you know that this is a Democratic message board? eom

[GarbagemanLB]

68. Many Hillary supporters seem to not understand that...using links from Drudge, Newsmax, etc.

[Pisces]

72. I'd rather be able to look at myself in the mirror without retching. I will not vote

for someone who has run her campaign in this repulsive way. She had my vote at the beginning of this process. Now she has the guarantee that I will never vote for her and that I will campaign for other to follow suit.

[MattBaggins]

97. When you're willing to settle

"for dem, any dem"; that's all you will ever get.

[emilyg]

28. I'm ashamed of you.

[JuniperLea]

54. Sick, isn't it?

To support a Republican over a Democrat should NOT be allowed on DU!

[Skidmore]

63. Why not? Clinton has already endorsed McCain?

[crankychatter]

74. Censor This

:-)

[boston bean]

65. How can you bring yourself to vote for O then? nt

[donheld]

67. John McCain thanks you, and so does a right wing supreme court.

[JoFerret]

89. What vanity

Oh dear. Thanks pal. You may help consign us all to McCain. America does not deserve that.

[crankychatter]

3. IF she gets the nomination by CROOK

important qualification

[JuniperLea]

26. How is that possible?

Why do so many insist on saying attempting to sway a superdelegate is cheating or stealing? It's how the process works, FCOL!

Quit wishing McCain into the White House!

[GarbagemanLB]

75. Playing on the ignorant fears of a racial divide that only the far right is spreading is disgusting

[crankychatter]

77. 25% of Clinton's White Vote in Mississippi

Limbaugh Republicans

Even in Mississippi the Racial Divide was a MYTH

[DJ13]

4. I will not vote for anyone who would steal an election or use race

Thats why I dont vote Republican, so why would I break that pledge just to vote for her?

[lapfog_1]

5. Hillary is NOT a Democrat - n/t

[woolldog]

6. No.

I will never vote for her, not after the way she's run her campaign.

[Drachasor]

7. I can't vote for McCain -- at that point I'd only vote for Hillary if I felt I had to to stop McCain

I wouldn't be happy voting for her -- I'd lean towards a 3rd party, honestly.

[Hepburn]

8. Under NO circumstances will I vote the Hillary Clinton.

I will go and vote in the GE, but I will skip voting for the top of the ticket if she is the nominee.

There is NOTHING at this point in time after watching her lying racist campaign that could make me vote for her. I see no difference between Hillary and McCain ~~ theu are both lying, war mongering, corporate asskissers in my opinion.

[PoliticalAmazon]

76. Write in Obama's name and withdraw from Democratic Party

THAT is a scenario that the DNC cannot spin away.

[burythehatchet]

9. I will not vote for Clinton under any circumstances, even if she was Barack's VP

I will not vote for that lying manipulative asshole under ANY circumstances.

[TexanDem]

10. Absolutely will NOT vote for Hillary.

[Texas Hill Country]

11. Has anyone gone back to see how the states that already voted would vote post-Wright/Speech?

I am curious how the votes in states that went for Obama already would have voted with Wright and the speech out there...


Nationally, the polls dont look good...


kind of paints a pic of why the superdelegates exist, doesnt it?

[JuniperLea]

16. Now there's some thinking!

Indeed!

I'll file this OP sentiment right next to Hillary "stealing" the election by convincing superdelgates to vote for her... actually using the term stealing!!! This electoral process is being called stealing because some people don't like Hillary... astounding.

[Texas Hill Country]

22. I am out of posts today or I would make a thread of its own about this... i really am curious

have they been done?

would they bolster Clintons argument?

[crankychatter]

71. Suppress the OBAMA Speech - Replay Wright

AND HURRY UP WITH THOSE POLLS

[Danger Mouse]

13. ...I don't know. This is so hard for me.

I hate that Hillary is behaving in this way, and I can't stand the way she's running her campaign...
but I can't abide the thought of McCain winning. I'm from NY, which Clinton is practically guaranteed to win, so my vote won't matter either way...but it's a symbolic thing.
It'll be very, very painful for me to vote for clinton if she wins through such awful means.
sigh.

[ihelpu2see]

14. I voted for Nadar in 2000 in CT and his Health Care plan is better than both Clintons and Obamas nt

[Texas Hill Country]

15. that in and of itself should get you an ignore.... but ill hold off for now lol

[joshcryer]

18. Mind you superdelegates are deciding this either way. And a 200 delegate spread is not a mandate.

You can convince yourself of that all you want, but a 10% delegate spread is not a mandate in any way shape or form, especially considering that most of those delegates come from states that are simply not winnable by the Democrats come Nov.

[GarbagemanLB]

19. If Obama wins the popular vote and the pledged delegate vote, the people have spoken. End of story.

[crispini]

20. I will vote for the Democratic nominee

but it might be tough.

And if she wins with the superdelegate vote I'm putting all my time and attention on local races.

[americanstranger]

21. I would cast an anti-McCain vote.

No support, no money, no blogging in favor of the nominee, nothing.

A vote against McCain - not for Clinton - would be all the Democtraic party would get from me. And immediately after voting, I will re-register as an Independent.

- as

[oviedodem]

24. I will vote down ticket but NOT for Hillary if that is the way she gets the NOM.

[Terran]

25. Thank god DU only represents a few thousand votes, total

Because all you people saying you won't vote for Clinton if she's the nominee are fools, and I'm fairly sure your sentiments don't prevail among the population at large. I want Obama to win, and badly, but there are bigger issues at stake then who our candidate is. Does that really need to be explained?

[GarbagemanLB]

35. Wait and see the black vote and the youth vote largely evaporate in protest if she wins that way.

[PoliticalAmazon]

79. "A few thousand"? That's larger than most polling samples.

Yes, there are bigger issues at stake: the future of our country and the Democratic Party.

The DNC swift-boated Howard Dean and shoved Kerry down our throats, with predictable disaster results. It appears that the DNC is getting ready to swift-boat Obama.

If you give into their tactics, and vote for any piece of crap with a (D) in front of their names because you are AFRAID of the GOP, then there is no hope for our country because we will never be able to take back the Democratic Party and, not being able to do that, we will lose all hope of ever getting government under our control again.

Face it. Hillary Clinton is not that much different than Bush Jr and John McCain. If you are going to vote for her, you might as well vote for McCain and make a statement out of it. Or write in Obama's name. Anything but let the DNC manipulate you by fear again.

[Terran]

91. There there, you're new here.

In case you hadn't thought about it, DU is highly unrepresentative of the electorate at large. Therefore all the morons here who insist they won't vote if Clinton-or-Obama is not the nominee will have no influence in the GE.

And I don't have to "face" any ridiculous proposition you're making as absolute truth: Clinton just like McCain and Bush...? Oh, wait, let me guess: Rushbot, right? You heard the call for "Operation Chaos" and you've managed to rack up 61 posts. Grats on that, now die please.

[JVS]

31. It would be necessary to observe the political situation as the election grows close.

If Hillary has already alienated the AA voting bloc then there is very little point in wasting my vote on her when it might be more productively used for a third party.

[TwilightGardener]

34. She will pry a vote out of me when someone kills me and takes my corpse

to the voting booth and uses my lifeless cold hand to press the button or pull the lever.

In other words: No.

[Texas Hill Country]

37. then you are destroying the party.

[TwilightGardener]

39. Hillary and the nutless Dem leadership are destroying the party.

Therefore, I must withhold my vote on principle.

[GarbagemanLB]

41. No, Hillary is. Thanks for playing, though.

[JVS]

45. Not destroying. Merely burying the carcass.

[Hepburn]

55. Too late....

....Hillary got there before I did:

Handshake gate
The phone BS about Obama and NAFTA
Rezko phony BS
The Muslim pic
Race baiting

...and on and on with what that POS Hillary did. Gawd, I can say that I really hate her and wish to hell she would go away very, very soon.

JMHO

[crankychatter]

78. Clinton Destroyed the Party

By founding the DLC

[Hepburn]

53. OMG.......

.......I shouldn't laugh at your post....but you sum up exactly how I feel. I will NEVER vote for her...and, yeah, someone would have to play "Weekend at Bernie's" with me to get a vote out for Hillary of my body!

Great post.....:rofl:

[crankychatter]

80. If Clinton Wants to BOMB IRAN

What, may I ask, is the difference?

[Political Heretic]

40. I want to say yes. In fact, that's what I'm going to say - yes I'll vote for her. But....

...I am experiencing so much agony about that, that if it really came down to superdelegates overturning the popular process, countering the pledged delegates, ignoring the popular vote.... its just an agony of conscience that I am praying I won't have to face.

I would be more livid, more furious and more absolutely disgusted with the democratic party and American politics than I have ever felt in my life. I was prepared for Obama to lose by losing primaries to Clinton. I was prepared for him to not get as much of the popular vote. I was prepared for him to simply be beaten on the issues, because both candidates were heard and the people chose someone else.

Now I am angry at myself for being so naive. I was not prepared for the possibility that the popular process could be subverted or that other Democrats would exploit race divides to do it.

[lolamio]

42. I'll vote for the party because it's the right thing to do, but it will be difficult. n/t

[Viking12]

43. I'll have to choke down the puke in mouth, but I'll vote for her if it is Clinton-vs- McCain.

[AllexxisF1]

44. Never.

The only way she could win at this point would be to steal the nomination from the electorate.

How on Earth is that any different than Bush in 2000? and how we ever live with ourselves by allowing that to happen.


I am no hypocrite and my vote will stay home if she steals this nomination. I REFUSE to dent my character and self respect so that Hillary can steal herself an election.

[democrattotheend]

47. I'll do for Hillary what she did with the banking bill

Vote for her, but hope she doesn't pass. I'll want her to win, but if she loses, part of me will be consoled knowing Obama might get another chance in 4 years.

[Kittycat]

49. I'm considering a write-in campaign for Obama, if this is the case.

If she can't win it by the people (Pledged delegates), given how she's run her dirty, nasty campaign - then she doesn't deserve to win.

[PoliticalAmazon]

81. If you are a person of integrity and personal convictions, it is really your only option.

[Pisces]

84. I will help you.

[Pisces]

85. I will help you.

[goletian]

51. i dont think hillary will manage to fool the SDs. if she doesnt win the people, she wont make it

i think its pointless to speculate. i really doubt the sds would go against the peoples wishes in this election. it would be suicide.

[BklynChick]

60. No I won't be voting for her.

[malik flavors]

61. It really depends on how I feel in November, but I would consider voting Nader.

[RamboLiberal]

64. I've been vowing not to vote for her since she pissed me off

with the plagiarism charge. I'm totally disgusted by her & her staffer's tactics and right now am not inclined to vote for her in the GE if she got the nomination through the SD's.

If Obama proves unelectable b/c of this damn Wright media and RW smear I'd rather see Gore come in as the nominee and elder statesman.

And of course I'd vote for all the Dems on the down ticket.

[alcibiades_mystery]

69. I'll vote for her in the general, unenthusiastically and more or less disgusted

And God help any Clintonite who thinks they're getting a free ride once she's elected. We better see fucking results, and that damn quick.

Ready on Day One, assholes? We'll fucking see about that.

[Pisces]

70. I will be writing in Barack Obama if this is the case. She will never get my vote

[rucky]

73. I'll vote for Hillary

then de-list my party affiliatiion.

then work with the Labor party.

[elixir]

83. Kennedy and Kerry are superdelegates and they are not representing the pledged delegates of MA.

Do you mean @ state or the nation as a whole?

[toys4kitty]

87. It's not GE time yet, but....

IF it comes down to Hillary vs. McCain and she has gotten there by winning the popular vote and starts closing the delegate lead ~ or if Obama withdrew, :rofl: I would vote for her - no doubt about it.

IF it comes down to Hillary vs. McCain and she has gotten there by SD's only - well then
I will have to decide if I can live with the decision to support her for the rest of my life and the for the lives of my children. No party affiliation or political belief can over-ride who I am at the core of my being.
And I hope that the people that think I'm not a TRUE democrat for feeling this way have a good way to quiet their own consciences if this scenario plays out.

Oh- and if anyone does have a way, please let me know as I may need to have something to fall back on.

[JoFerret]

88. Convenient excuse

.

[Barack_America]

90. I don't think that ethics and principles are ever convenient.

Upholding them is actually quite difficult.

[JoFerret]

92. So I guess you won't be voting at all.

.

[Leopolds Ghost]

95. I think it will be great for the anti-war shutdown in Denver/Mpls. McCain wil= Hoover, Obama in 2012

And the DLC will be utterly discredited within the party, possibly
splitting off to create a spoiling centrist party allowing us to finally
dissolve this God DAMNED two-party system and get back to real democracy,
so to speak.

Think strategically for once, Dems.

[dansolo]

98. If enough superdelegates are swayed by thie strategy

Then I will probably become an Independent. I wouldn't vote for McCain, so I would most likely sit this one out. Fortunately, I don't think this will happen.