Hillary is not a good role model for women and young girls

[Cali_Democrat]

Hillary's candidacy sends the message that in order to be president you have to ride the coattails of your cheating husband. I think this is the wrong message to send to young girls. They need the message that it's up to YOU to get ahead. You have to work hard and don't expect anyone to cut you any slack. Hillary wouldn't be where she was if Bill wasn't her husband. It's the sad truth and I think she's hurting women in the long run.

[OzarkDem]

1. Meow!

Do you work for Ann Coulter?

[better tomorrow]

5. Ann Coulter is DEFINITELY NOT a good role model for anyone...

[EFerrari]

6. Making animal sounds is also not good modeling for young women.

:rofl:

[OzarkDem]

24. Nor is making ignorant, sexist posts

as the OP did.

[EFerrari]

72. There is nothing sexist about that post. Sexist doesn't mean

"ideas I don't agree with".

[robbedvoter]

103. No. Sexist means "Hillary is Mrs Clinton - nothing more"

I can tell you how disappointed I am in people I used to consider progressive - who now spout Tweety garbage just because thei imagine it benefits their candidate. Clue: it doesn't.

[JohnnyLib2]

123. Sadly, this stuff could be thrown back at Michelle Obama somewhere

in the future. And other capable high profile women who are married, no doubt.

[EFerrari]

126. But most capable married women don't run on their husband's records. n/t

[JohnnyLib2]

129. Nope. And when they move ahead, the dynamics change.

Sandra Day O'Connor comes to mind. I don't know her early history, but wonder if the "coattails" argument was used or muttered behind her back in years past.

[EFerrari]

130. It's funny becuse I worked with my husband for about ten years.

And while the usual slurs against working women applied, I myself never had trouble distinguishing what he did, what I did and what we did as a team.

[JohnnyLib2]

132. Same with us as a professional couple.

We had some fun with me getting the coffee while my wife started with the clients.....sometimes on purpose.
:evilgrin:

[EFerrari]

135. Sure. My husband was a comedian. We wrote together

and I produced his shows. It was great fun and for our whole marriage, our roles were pretty much reversed. But, I never looked around the venue and thought, I sure packed the house tonight! lol

[pathansen]

176. You need to read about Hillary's accomplishments before making harsh judgments

Read sources like Wikepedia.
She had a lot going for her in her own right long before her marriage to Bill Clinton. At first she refused to marry him and then wanted to keep her maiden name but back then voters would not approve. She also considered running as Governor of Arkansas.
Bush, Jr. got elected because of Bush, Sr. Also, what about all the Kennedys?
Bill Richardson got ahead because of Clinton.
So lets be fair.

[EFerrari]

177. It's not my judgment that she's claiming 30 odd years of "experience"

-- a claim that was dissected by the New York Times. That's her claim. It's a shame that she doesn't honor her own accomplishments as much as you do.

[abq e streeter]

142. No, its terribly sexist to ever criticize Hillary--for Anything

And being first lady for eight years definitely qualifies you to be president. That's why I'm proud to be supporting the ticket of Nancy Reagan and Laura Bush. ( BTW, can't get the sarcasm emoticon to work, for any of the irony-challenged who may chance to read this)

[EFerrari]

144. Clinton has been subjected to sexist bullshit in the media

but the crit in the OP is not sexist.

(And that emoticon may have just worn out in this forum :) )

[abq e streeter]

146. I agree completely--I too have been offended in general

for quite a few years now, by the disintegration of a once admirable news media. And I've objected here and elsewhere to their treatment of Democrats, including HRC, with some of their criticism of her being, as you correctly put it, sexist bullshit. And I also agree 100% with your OP.

[EFerrari]

147. I didn't write the OP although I've been thinking it since she ran for the Senate.

And, the reason I haven't posted a similar one is that I know that I'm deep down inside furious with Clinton for the way she's run her campaign. I don't think I trust me far enough to post an OP on that topic.

My suspicion is that there are a lot of women like me who have fought for equal rights, struggled with discrimination, and who would have loved to support a viable woman contender. Clinton pretty much made that impossible and, that's sort of infuriating at a gut level. I'll own that much, anyway.

[RichGirl]

84. I agree...definitely a sexist post.

Actually, Hillary is an EXCELLENT role model. But, not just for girls...for everyone.

Now maybe the OP thinks that if a woman is running in a race and she is second, and close behind the first...she should just quit. "Little ole me can't make it to the finish line." Yeah...that would be a good role model...not.

[EFerrari]

87. Where is the sexism in that post? Please show the words.

Thanks!

[RichGirl]

162. Well...let's see...

Check out Hillary's website. Nowhere on it does she say that she is trying to send the message that women should ride the coattails of their cheating husband. I really looked hard and I couldn't find it! 99.9% of Hillarys negatives are from her attackers who think that their opinions are facts and who presume to know what she thinks and feels every minute of the day. She is sending the message of being a strong, intelligent, experience and capable PERSON, who is an excellent role model for all and will make an great president. Hillary is extremely qualified in her own right. It is my OPINION that if she had never met Bill Clinton she would have probably run against him in the 92/93 primaries and won and we would have had a woman president a long time ago. And...she would have done such a good job, no scandals and picked a VP who would have won in a landslide against Bush. No terrorists would have attacked us, no war in Iraq...sunshine and blue skies all day, every day.

Oh...to answer your question: how is it sexist? Well if you said Obama is not a good role model for blacks because he is sending the message that he is using his blackness, and the history of descrimination and victimisation of blacks in general, to win an election. I would call that racist.

[EFerrari]

165. So, you can't find sexism in the words of the OP?

I didn't think so.

[Cali_Democrat]

7. No, but Ann Coulter supports Hillary. nt

[better tomorrow]

10. I forgot about that.....

:rofl:

[OzarkDem]

23. Oh, sure she does

Coulter loves Democrats and wants to see them in the WH. Yep, just keep believing it.

[Cali_Democrat]

25. Check it out...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/01/ann-coulter-ill-campaig_n_84435.html

[OzarkDem]

27. Do you understand

the meaning of sarcasm?

No thanks, I don't believe anything Ann Coulter (or Rush Limbaugh) says. Do you?

[rodeodance]

50. you belittle yourself when you believe Ann Coulter. Bur based on your OP, I am not surprised!!

[Kurovski]

74. No, you belittle yourself!! We are not surprised!!

:rofl:

[MADem]

58. That "politics of hope" is just INFECTIOUS, isn't it??? nt

[Kurovski]

76. Not everyone falls into line, I guess.

I will say that Clinton supporters like to take her lead and fucking insult to high-heaven anyone who so much as says "boo" to them.

Just like the Honorable Senator from New York.

[MADem]

141. Well, the more people throw logs on the fire, the hotter it gets.

Burn down the forest, and all of the forest creatures will skittle over to Life In Hell in GOP land, I guess.

[Kurovski]

157. Yeah, that'll happen.

:eyes:

Please STOP WITH THE GODDAM MANIPULATIVE HORSESHIT!!! I know it's the only thing Clinton's got left, but do her supporters also have to follow her bad example?

Hillary Clinton already believes McCain is the better choice exactly because she herself is a wee part of "GOP Land".

[MADem]

183. Manipulative horseshit?

Are you always this dramatic? It's precisely that kind of drama that drives people away, you know. That, and the continuous, uneducated use of the possessive when talking about those two Clintons (not Clinton's).

Oh, and the vitriol, too--the false descriptions of Senator Clinton as a Republican, for example...and the broad-brushed insults, and the making fun of older voters--that's really the shit that makes that "unity" message seem like total bullshit, or horseshit, if you prefer. The whole thing is starting to smell McCarthy-ish, all right--Gene McCarthy-ish.

But then, she's nonhuman--that's what your crowd thinks; you chimed in on a thread about that, gleefully. Just like some Americans were viewed before the Civil War--less than human.

[Kurovski]

184. You just keep on grabbing at any ol' pile of horseshit and start flinging it

hither, tither and yon.

Hillary is all too human. Keep believing the horseshit you cull from some kid's silly, smart-ass, throw-away comment and attempt to surgically apply it to every one else. That's a great plan. We'll all take you seriously now.

And drama? In one short post you just wrote a three-act play about McCarthyism, elder-abuse and the Civil War! :rofl:

You funny.

[MADem]

185. Gee, I see you have both the pot and the kettle!

You're awfully interested in horseshit, I notice. Perhaps because you're so good at spreading it?

You funnier--nay, funniest. Especially when you think calling someone "nonhuman" is a "throw-away comment." It wasn't so funny to those to whom that label was applied as a justification to keep them enslaved.

Words matter. Ideas matter.

:rofl: indeed.

[Kurovski]

186. Hillary is a slave?

To what? Blind ambition? Well, that's human. That's a human trait.

To denial? Again, quite human.

To poverty? To a man? Who has enslaved this privileged person we speak of?

Tee-hee.


Tee-hee.

[MADem]

187. If you used the same language to describe the other candidate, you'd be called a racist.

Words matter.

But hey -- "tee hee." That sums you up.

[Kurovski]

188. Yes it does.

You wanted to compare Sen. Clinton to a slave. Want to compare Sen. Obama to an underpaid, abused wife now? It makes about as much sense.

Thanks for engaging with me here in GDP, I've had my pointless thrill until the next full moon comes 'round.

[MADem]

189. Words matter. You thought it was funny that she was called nonhuman.

I'm pointing out that WORDS MATTER.

Doesn't take much to thrill you, I see.

[tammywammy]

2. This is pathetic

:eyes:

[JohnnyLib2]

45. Pathetic, indeed.

I think the logic used would mean any married woman is somehow coat-tailing.

[anonymous171]

3. No. She's a good role model. Up to a point.

When she, after delivering devastating blows, is hit back by her opponent and says "NO FAIR! I'M A GIRL! " That's when she fails as a role model.

[Yes We Did]

11. ding ding ding ding ding ding ding.......

We have a winner.

[EFerrari]

12. That and the crying and the nagging and the credit grabbing

for someone else's work.

I'm glad my nieces are too young to pay attention to this mess.

[napoleon_in_rags]

4. I don't get GD:P is it a joke?

Is it a big parody? Is everybody stoned and I just don't get it because I haven't been here long enough? I give up. :(

[blonndee]

8. LOL!! "Is it a big parody? Is everybody stoned and I just don't get it?"

Freaking fantastic.

[Cooley Hurd]

13. "Is everybody stoned...?"

I cannot speak for everyone else...:smoke:

[Yes We Did]

I often find myself asking the same question.

Stick around though, it gets really interesting... especially those magical hours when you have an equal number of hillary and obama supporters.

[rodeodance]

53. As I read it, I thought it was satire. it was blatantly sexist and stupid!

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rodeodance]

118. Any thing constuctive to say? Just spamming this thread so far.

No, you're blatantly sexist and stupid!! You're a satire!!

[ms liberty]

61. Welcome to DU - This place will improve after the primaries are over...I hope! n/t

[napoleon_in_rags]

181. Thanks! Its already good in a lot of ways.

The energy forum is great, there are some really smart people posting on all kinds of things across the board. Then there's this one part that doesn't...fit. Oh well, maybe I'll figure it out of I stay around long enough. Thanks for your welcome!!!

[KAZ]

106. I didn't want to post in this thread, but napoleon, your reply..

.. is freaking fantastic! A DUzy, if I ever saw one!

[LostinVA]

112. LOL

[keep_it_real]

9. And she misrepresents to the degree of lying.

So said a writer on Hillary and NAFTA.

[Skip Intro]

14. My God, what bullshit. Happy second week on DU.

Enjoy your stay.

[Cali_Democrat]

17. I've been using other liberal sites for years

I'm a lifelong democrat. Just because I haven't been registered here for very long doesn't make me any less of a democrat than you.

[Catherina]

33. For the sake of your own sanity

Send in a donation so you can use the ignore button. I added 6 of the most obnoxious Hillary supporters to my list and the difference is like night and day.

[EFerrari]

What part of claiming credit for Bill Clinton's work is bullshit?

Shoot the messenger.

[Liquorice]

15. Yeah, just like that terrible role model

Eleanor Roosevelt who rode on the coattails of that cheating husband of hers, FDR.

[EFerrari]

16. Eleanor never claimed to be co-president and clearly his life

would have been impossible without her.

Eleanor was a very accomplished person in her own right and she never diminished herself by false claims.

[Liquorice]

18. Hmph. Hillary is an accomplished person in her own right too. nt

[EFerrari]

19. Really? She may be but she's blurred the two careers so much

it'll be a long time before it can be sorted out what she actually did if anything. Sad for her.

Eleanor had no such problem.

[Liquorice]

20. Eleanor was vilified in her day too, or didn't you know? nt

[EFerrari]

21. Most powerful women are vilified.

But unlike Hillary, Eleanor did her own work and earned her power.

[Liquorice]

22. That's total crap. Hillary has earned her power. nt

[EFerrari]

71. Is it? I'm trying to think of a successful project that is hers.

She ran for the Senate is what I come up with. What am I missing?

[Medusa]

79. And would she have been qualified to make that run or have won

if her last name wasn't Clinton? Hell, she wasn't even FROM New York! Carpetbagger.

"Role model" my ass. She's a throwback to the 50's in the worst way possible.

[rodeodance]

43. And you vilify Hillary when you claim she has not her power.

[Kurovski]

82. She has the power to screw shit up.

Unless you actually ARE a power company in NY who needs some "help".

[SoCalDem]

59. Eleanor Roosevelt was MORE than a role model because SHE

took it upon herself to step outside that small little place where First Ladies had always been kept.. They did little more than hostess parties, & smile as they stood beside their husbands.

I think the times dictated it. FDR was a little bit busy back then, so it made sense for his college-educated wife (in a time when most women did not go past high school if they were luck to have that much education) to step up and do some pretty important home-front things.

Hillary is a woman who was on the cusp of change.. Women a few years younger than her graduated college into a world that was truly more open for women. Hillary was right at the end of the era where men still were the best things since sliced bread, and women were still supposed to be a support system, rather than the main event.

Had he not become governor/president, I think SHE would/could have become the power-player in the family, but times back when they started out, pretty much still meant that she could be the "woman behind the man"..My take on their family dynamics is this.. She supported him and suffered the slings and arrows right along with him, and he failed along the way. He became governor & president, but in her heart she knew that she could have done it better.. For her long-suffering support of him, she's collecting on her "investment" now..

The sense of entitlement is what has always bothered me. I Do think it's time we had a woman president, but I do NOT think that SHE is the "one" who will be first. Her sense of entitlement for all she had to put up with from her husband, is NOT a reason for her to be elected, anymore than a reason why Eliot Spitzer's wife should run for governor (who knows she might be qualified)or for ANY woman to "inherit" her husband's job, once he's done with it..

I always felt sorry for her, to have had to put up with what she did, but that's no reason to elect her president. I the people of NY wanted her as their senator, so be it..but there are 99 other senators who also think they could be/should be president...but most never get there, because once they have to face the public and run a national campaign, they fall short.. She is one of one hundred, and as a former first lady, she started out with an elevated name recognition, but that alone should not make her any more entitled to be president than any other candidate..

If anything, the fact that she stayed with him, may work more against her, than if she had divorced him, and truly stood on her own. Women all over the country start over after leaving a cheating husband.

She's standing on his shoulders and pretending to be the female version of him..and with a wink-wink-nod-nod, telling people that by electing her, they will get HIM back and the good times they had back then..

Could any decision she made, as president, be truly interpreted as hers and hers alone?

You cannot be a beacon for women's rights, and be an appendage of a man..

[donheld]

26. Totally stupid.

[OzarkDem]

28. Beyond stupid

Moronic.

[Cali_Democrat]

29. How so?

I think its a very accurate assessment of Hillary's position and what circumstances put her in that position.

[rodeodance]

47. One thing that is hurting women is the unbridled sexism on this board and in society.

....

Cali_Democrat (379 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Mar-22-08 12:59 AM
Original message
Hillary is not a good role model for women and young girls

Hillary's candidacy sends the message that in order to be president you have to ride the coattails of your cheating husband. I think this is the wrong message to send to young girls. They need the message that it's up to YOU to get ahead. You have to work hard and don't expect anyone to cut you any slack. Hillary wouldn't be where she was if Bill wasn't her husband. It's the sad truth and I think she's hurting women in the long run.

[JohnnyLib2]

48. Check out her college graduation speech in 1969 (pre-Bill).

Check out the circumstances a couple of years before and after that.
Consider what opportunities were and weren't open to young women at the time.
Follow the trajectory.

Then think again about role models.

[Hepburn]

57. I am Hillary's age....

...and I have a bachelors ~~ highest honors, a masters, and a Juris Doctorate ~~ highest honors. I never found being female was a disadvantage. I practiced law for a number of years in my own law firm and retired right before I was 50 years old. I started practicing law well before there were a lot of women in the courtroom. I did trials and being female never stopped me from taking over a courtroom and making it mine and wiping the floor with anyone or anything that got in my way....well, excepting the person in the black robe on the bench. I never used my husband's experience to get me anywhere or get me anything. I was me...all on my own...and I battled my own battles and made my own way. And I sure as hell would have thrown out some SOB I was married to who was fucking around on me ~~ and if the SOB had done that in my own home, he would have thereafter found himself to be a soprano ~~ get my drift? Apparently I have pride whereas Hillary obviously does not. She is a role model alright ~~ of how to suck up and shut up and ride a man's coattails to get somewhere. How disgusting, IMO.

So...you want to tell me again to consider what was wasn't available to me at that time? Your position is total, unmitigated bullshit. I have been there and done that and I sure as hell did not need some man to get me where I am today.

JMHO

[Divernan]

65. Amen, Hepburn! I'm older than HRC and went to law school as single mom at age 40

JohnnyLib2 is doing a Hillary - creating his own version of social history out of whole cloth to suit his self-serving purposes.

I am about 5 years older than HRC. Dropped out of college to get married, because the only reason women went to college then was to find an appropriate husband and get their MRS degree.

Come the 70's, and with 3 kids, I sued for divorce (for less reason than HRC had to dump Bill), started working 1 fulltime and 1 or 2 part-time jobs, went back to college(night school), finished my Bachelor of Science, w/ a 3.9/4/0 average; got a 3 yr. NIMH research fellowship for grad school and completed a master's and all but dissertation for the ph.d; switched to a local law school and got a JD degree - motivated and backed each of my kids to 2 or 3 degrees each from schools including Stanford, Yale and Columbia. I was a backer of the Clintons - even went to a lot of VIP parties at Bill's first inauguration.

So don't tell me that HRC, with a law degree from YALE, unmarried and childless at that time, couldn't have had a fantastic legal career! She could well have ended up running for HER VERY OWN political office in her early 30's. At the very least she would have made millions as senior partner in a law firm. Instead she left DC and went haring down to Arkansas, and Bill still didn't marry her for another year. I have zero doubt that Bill was unfaithful to her the year she was in DC - as well as those years before they had a child. (And we all know about the 12 year affair with Jennifer Flowers after he became a father.) But even moreso after she had a daughter, she should have divorced him for her daughter's sake - unless HRC hoped her daughter would also grow up to marry a cheating and philandering liar. Interesting that neither Chelsea nor Monica have every married - all the scandal surrounding and emanating from the Clinton "marriage" is evidently off-putting to potential suitors.

On edit: the path I chose to follow was damned hard, but god, it's been great - and I have never regretted getting a divorce. The only mistake I made was not getting divorced a lot earlier. I don't have HRC's wealth - did mainly public service law and have a very modest pension. But I wake up every day happy to be alive, and I enjoy the love and respect of my kids and friends. My face is never contorted with rage, like HRC's; I never have to scream at anyone; I never have to lie to anyone. The role model HRC provides to young woman is re how NOT to live your life.

[Hepburn]

73. I hear ya, Sistah!

Yep, I started out teaching HS before I went to law school. With an undergrad degree in PoliSci-History, that was a natural. I went on and got the masters in Ed.Psych and kept on teaching for a bit longer. I found myself going to court as witness for some of my students and the court kept listening to me because of my experience and education in the field. Waaaaaaaaaaaay back then, a teacher was getting $900/month and a public defender was getting $1,300/month. Huge difference in salary and I had always wanted to be a lawyer and stopped short because it got old working and going to school. So...after my son was old enough for full time school and I got rid of a drunken first husband, I worked my way through law school, graduated, passed the Cal bar and found a referal source and a legal secretary who was retired but had a ton of experience and I went on from there.

I totally agree with you, Diverman, Hillary is NO role model even for us who appear to be referred to as living back in the dark ages of liberation. I did it and I did not whine about it or expect any special credit for getting where I wanted to go. It just was something I HAD to do! And, yeah, I wake up a litte fatter and more grayer every day...but happy as hell!

And...I would not have put up with the cheating bullshit from a husband or SO like Bill Clinton for two seconds. I sure as hell have too much self-respect to even consider that ever, let alone do that ~~ especially while raising a young daughter. What a role model that would be ~~ NOT. Well, unless one wished to teach one's young female child how to be a doormat!

Thanks for your reply to my post...and congrats on having lived a wonderful life!

:hi:

[JohnnyLib2]

90. Please see post 88 above.

As before, I see traces of those splits among feminists (of both sexes) that we all hollered about in the 70s. It brings back the saying "different strokes for different folks."

Cheers! JL2

[JohnnyLib2]

88. OK, I've thought it over.

I'm 65, wife is slightly younger, and we met in graduate school in the 60s
(in the south, which might make some difference). Several of her friends has been discouraged from plans like yours (medical school and Ph.D. programs, as I recall). We flatly saw some of the same stuff on the spot.
Some of our colleagues could and did take the route which you did--full speed ahead. That was possible. It was not the mode, IMO.

The NOW group met at our place in the 70s, again mostly educated and qualified women. And---there was a division around the issues of marriage, career, the place of childrearing on the priority list, etc. We remain close to many of this group.

Fast forward to now. Some of the same folks would have the same viewpoint
about HRC as you do. Others see it more like I do.

And personally, I have no doubt that my wife would have had her own successful career (and now enviable retirement) with or without me. Guess that impacts my take on Sen. Clinton. Cheers!

[Hepburn]

99. Well, I can remember when I was in grade school in the 1950s...

...and I lived in the mid-West that when asked what I wanted to be when I grew up, my reply was, "Either a doctor or a lawyer." I was told back then that, no, that was wrong, that what I really meant to say was that I wanted to be a nurse or a legal secretary.

However, my role model was my mother who was born in 1924. She did 4 years of HS in 3 years, 4 years of college in 3 years (bachelors with honors) and then immediately thereafter got a masters in psychology. When she started the first grade, she did not speak a word of English. Although she was born in the USA, her foreign born parents took her back to Europe immediately after she was born and she was raised there until time for her to attend school.

She also was the first woman to do a lot of things...some of them pretty small ~~ but she still was the first: Regional manager for a major, East Coast, stock insurance company and personnel director for a major national company. She then went on to a real estate career of her own ~~ and she was just very good at what she did in being a real estate broker.

So.......I really, really do not see Hillary as a role model for anything that even remotely touches on being liberated and I sure as hell did not see her as one when I was growing up ~~ she was a contemporary and not a role model. My non-English speaking Mom was my role model. No one EVER told me that being female was a disadvantage. In fact, I always saw it as an advantage over men. I just knew that there was something out there I wanted and no one would stop me from getting it.

[JohnnyLib2]

115. Sounds like my elementary years, as well.

And the strong survived and thrived...

Our elementary school granddaughters will soon be around. I'll try to get a feel for what women they admire. (and will need support if it's Hannah Montana)

[rodeodance]

54. You gave no evidence, just stupid ASSumptions!

[Kurovski]

77. No, you give no evidence! You offer stupid assumptions!! And goofy emphasis!!!

:rofl: Goddam, this is fun. I think I see why Clinton supporters engage in it around-the-clock here at DU!

WHEEE!!! :rofl:

[Fredda Weinberg]

30. Well, she's been an excellent role model for me and the boy I married

We're happy. So why don't you take care of your own ... as we do those around us? You don't hear us complaining.

[lligrd]

31. You Married A Boy?

I thought that was illegal. I hadn't heard that Hillary was now supporting grown woman marrying boys. Thanks for enlightening me.

[rodeodance]

49. "I hadn't heard that Hillary was now supporting grown woman marrying boys" Immature!!

..........ligrd (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Mar-22-08 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. You Married A Boy?

I thought that was illegal. I hadn't heard that Hillary was now supporting grown woman marrying boys. Thanks for enlightening me.
Impeach - The Time Is Now

[lligrd]

56. Exactly, Marrying Boys Is Very Immature...

Nice to see you agree with me, for a change.

[rodeodance]

113. Poster can refer to her husband in the manner she wants--It is none of your business.

[Kurovski]

169. Until it's done on a public message board.

For instance:

"The little lady I married is quite a girl. Bakes cookies AND works hard to destroy presidential campaigns with race-baiting. She's a fine-looking chick who always knows exactly what color pantsuit to wear for which event." --WJC

:rofl:

[Cali_Democrat]

34. That's very sexist of you

I'm not allowed to comment on female issues because I'm a male? How VERY sexist.

[rodeodance]

46. Oh?--and the poster knew you were a male before you called the poster 'sexist'??

Cali_Democrat (379 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Mar-22-08 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. That's very sexist of you

I'm not allowed to comment on female issues because I'm a male? How VERY sexist.

[jlake]

32. You're hurting all people with your dumb and sexist post.

[faithfulcitizen]

67. calling woman "dumb and sexist" for their opinion is dumb and sexist.

[jlake]

133. Now you win the "dumbest post ever" award.

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :puke: :puke: :puke: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :argh: :argh: :argh: :freak: :freak: :freak: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

[Kurovski]

171. That's very generous of you, jlake,

Giving up your title like that, and all.

[emilyg]

35. Bull!

[stratomagi]

36. Asterisk

Much like Bill is a place holder for when we have our first REAL black president so too will Hillary be for the woman who worked her way up through the chain without riding the Clinton name and legacy into the white house. I think it is possible that the first REAL woman president may already be an elected official, we've got some great congresswomen and women senators who made it to where they are ON THEIR OWN MERITS.

To me all Hillary has is her husbands last name much like Bush has his fathers, and we all know how that turned out.

[NoPasaran]

63. "The first REAL woman president?"

So, Hillary Clinton is not a real woman?

:wtf:

The sick, twisted hatred you exhibit is beyond pathetic.

[stratomagi]

80. Yup.

She's running on the Clinton name, for the Clinton name. She's not the woman candidate, she's the Clinton candidate.

[woolldog]

37. I agree

If Hillary were a white man, she would not be in this position. If she were a woman of color she would not be in this position. She happens to be very lucky to be the wife of a former President. And the country is caught up in the concept.

[saracat]

38. That isn't entirely true. She got her education without Bill. She got her law degree without Bill

and she actually was even more involved in politics and introduced Bill to the McGovern campaign.I agree she got some name recognition from having been married to Bill but we don't know what she might have done if she didn't marry him. Odds are very good that she would have been very successful without him. She certainly always made more money than he did! I find your remarks as offensive as those that said my mom went to law school to "catch a husband," though she graduated and passed the bar AFTER she married. The kind of opinions that are expressed in the OP are what is a very poor role model for young women.And BTW. they are straight out of the RW Playbook.

[woolldog]

41. If

Hillary were a white man, she would not be in this position. If she were a woman of color she would not be in this position. She happens to be very lucky to be the wife of a former President. And the country is caught up in the concept.

[saracat]

51. There have been lots of white men in her position.And there have been women

of color who have run for president.She may be lucky to be the wife of a former president but then that may be as much a liability as it is benefit.And trying to defend sexism with by thinking yourself cute with the Farraro remarks just doesn't work.

[rodeodance]

52. You made an ASSumption and look foolish. "the country is caught up in the concept."

Where is your evidence? besides in your mind?

.....And the country is caught up in the concept.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

128. It's a reference to what Ferraro said about Obama.

“If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position," Ferraro had told the Daily Breeze of Torrance, Cal., the week before. “And if he was a woman he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."

http://weblogs.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/blog/2008/03/obama_clinton_who_pays_more_de.html

[DemocratSinceBirth]

68. I Think There Is Something To That But It Applies To Both Obama And Clinton

Being who they are at this time gave them certain advantages but if they weren't extraordinary people they wouldn't be able to exploit the advantages given to them...

[NashVegas]

100. if Hillary Hadn't Married Bill

She'd probably have been governor of Illinois, sometime in the late 1980s.

[Kurovski]

166. A sincere question here: what are you basing that on? (nt)

[NashVegas]

172. She Put Her Political Career On Hold

To marry him. And she did have a political career.

[Spiffarino]

39. I'm not buying it.

I think she stands up on her own well enough. She's proven her mettle. I don't have a problem with Bill and Hillary. They have to deal with their personal issues and I don't really give a rat's.

My problem with her is that she's wrecking the Democratic Party's chances in the general. Obama will win the nomination unless the super-delegates put their thumbs on the scales, in which case we can expect a rerun of Chicago, 1968, yet Hillary doesn't seem to care.

[splat]

44. I think Obama will self-destruct well before then

And she'll be there to pick up the pieces of the party.

[Spiffarino]

174. A party in pieces won't win the big one

The only one tearing up the Party is Clinton herself. She - and now Bill - are touting McCain at Obama's expense. I guess she's shooting for 2012.

[splat]

40. The first woman president is a breakthrough for all women; don't vote against your own self-interest

[EFerrari]

85. The same argument could be made for electing Laura Bush.

No thanks.

[cornermouse]

92. Are you by any chance comparing low wattage Laura to

someone as intelligent as Hillary?

[EFerrari]

96. Was my post not in English?

[cornermouse]

98. I'm going to take the high road.

It should make an interesting contrast to the road you're traveling this morning.

[EFerrari]

104. The point is, the argument works just as well for Laura Bush as for Clinton

so no, I am not comparing the two. The argument does.

[rodeodance]

42. Your OP has made an utte fool out of you.

[Kurovski]

81. Your spelling has made an utter fool out of you!!!

:rofl:

Have you and your co-campaigners here ever heard of the qualifiers "I think" or "it is my opinion"?

What's with all the fucking royal edicts? :shrug: I'm fucking sick of them. A year of them is more than anyone should have to politely endure. :-)

[loveangelc]

55. I agree. It is a disgrace that feminists have embraced her simply for being a woman.

the only reason she is running and no one is making her drop out is because of her husband. the way she went after women who her husband slept with i find deeply troubling as well and cannot understand why any feminist would support that. she has made it hard for a woman to be president in the future.

[robbedvoter]

60. Tweety, that you?

He has the honor of pioneering this talking point. On teevee at least.
Nice going, DU!

[Kurovski]

161. Yeah, it's Tweety. We're all Tweety now. That's the new DU.

:eyes:

[FrenchieCat]

62. I agree with you. As the mother of two daughter,

I don't consider Hillary has a good role model at all.

[BklynChick]

64. I have a daughter and completely agree. She's not old enough to understand

it completely, but I would want her to see a woman who has gotten where she is on her own merits. Very bad role model.

[faithfulcitizen]

66. AMEN!

[cornermouse]

69. Stupid OP.

I would be thrilled if I had a daughter who went to school and achieved the things that Hillary has achieved.

[maddiejoan]

70. and you just sent the message

that a woman has to choose between marriage and success.

Now that's certainly a good idea. :sarcasm:

June Cleaver or Jane Hathaway.

[JohnnyLib2]

101. You've hit it.

I'm seeing one of those old, old splits in the ranks on this one.
Even Gloria Steinem modified her stand on marriage, for cryin' out loud.

[treestar]

78. Yes, she is

She had a career as a lawyer, very successful, and also got married and became a mother. Just because her husband is successful, her own accomplishments are overlooked by your analysis.

She and her husband have managed to maintain their marriage. Some marriages can get past the cheating. Anyway, it's their business and irrelevant.

[Darth_Kitten]

83. Yeah, being intelligent and fighting for what you what in life is definitely bad....

I mean women should just hang back, play the simpleton, and marry somebody who wants them barefoot and pregnant and treats them with contempt.............

:sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

89. What part of her campaign has been intelligent?

Driving a wedge between white and black voters?

Praising the Republican?

Lying about her NAFTA position(s)?

Claiming other people's work as hers?

Failing to plan for after Super Tuesday?

And, holding Clinton up as some kind of role model for enlightened marriage is probably a mistake, too.

[Adelante]

159. See, I don't care about people's marriages

But those other things, I do.

[EFerrari]

163. It's none of my business, either, unless you hold that marriage up

as a model. Then, I have to check in. :shrug:

[barb162]

86. Hillary is an absolutely great role model for women, men, girls and boys.

And Obama wouldn't be where he is without a bunch of political fixers now on trial in Illinois.

[mtnsnake]

91. What a baseless, steaming pantload that is!

Hillary Clinton has the respect of everyone in Congress because SHE EARNED HER WAY, not because she is Bill Clinton's wife. Who the hell are you imply that Hillary Clinton would have gotten no where if she wasn't married to Bill. For all you know, Hillary could just as well have become President as Hillary Rodham, had she never met or married Bill to begin with. Wow, talk about a post that gives no credit to brilliant, hard working women of this country. The sexism on this forum STINKS!! :puke:

[Kurovski]

164. Clinton has run a filthy, manipulative campaign.

I guess given your logic, we can say that she gives no credit to the brilliant, hard-working AND HONEST women in this country.

But I disagree with your characterization of Sen. Clinton as an "everywoman". I see her more as a "Heather". Her campaign is more like a clique than a movement, IMO.

[acmavm]

93. Geeze I miss the days just a couple years back when the threads carried

at least a modicum of intelligence in their message.

Sometimes its so hard to tell if the message isn't really pathetically lacking in common sense and basic intelligence or if the poster just doesn't think that anyone else here has any brains and is stupid enough to believe what they're saying.

[BooScout]

94. What a twit you are

:eyes:

[loyalsister]

95. hmmm

I'm not so sure that she wouldn't be where she is if she hadn't been married to Bill Clinton.
We may have seen a very different course of history and she may have been president sooner. She is politically skilled and driven.
It is certainly my preference as a feminist to have our first woman president be one who does not point to a record attached to her husband.
I think that in this case there are dynastic implications that are also unfortunate.
Aside from that I don't think she a very good role model, because she let sexual harrassment slide in a sense. I know many disagree on this, but I have had a lot of conversations with younger women who find it disturbing.
I think I would have been more inclined to support her had she not been married to a former president. Assuming she was not married to a man who had been sued for sexual harrassment, paid a settlement and was prosecuted for perjury about statements related.
She is very capable, but her personal history is relevant.

[Evergreen Emerald]

97. This is such a bunch of bullshit that I am forced to respond to it.

She was one of few women in a mostly male law school graduating at the top of her class.

She was one of few women to be lawyers in her day, as this was a man's field.
She has worked tirelessly for civil rights her whole career

And despite lies and distortions and demeaning ignorant information in the public --like this post--she fights.

Despite the press and the media and the republicans and the liberals feeding lies about her--she stands tall and fights.

You are completely wrong.

[mbperrin]

109. Hear Hear! Finally, a post with some actual content!

HRC scores 100% on our teacher union scale for her unflagging support for education. She was literally crucified when she stepped out into the health arena as First Lady, and she could have ended up just doing nothing at all, and who could have blamed her?

Instead, she has extended her efforts for education and health care and many others, and continues to fight. We need a fighter in this party, because I can assure you that in the fall, the Republican owned media is not going to respond to a cry of "no fair, you're being mean", which is the stock in trade of the Obama group. They are going to kick, scream, gouge, and in every way attempt to murder the opposition.

I'm happy to support a candidate with a proven track record, both in issues and as a personal fighter! A great role model, indeed, and not just for women.

[rodeodance]

125. Nicely said.

[ourbluenation]

102. To be fair, you can't really know how her life would have gone without Bill. You are assuming...

she would have gone nowhere. How can you possibly know that?

[robbedvoter]

105. I am old enough to remember the good old days when DU was progressive

I guess that must make me a Hillary supporter

[goldcanyonaz]

107. The woman in that photo kicks ASS!

Love her!

[rodeodance]

108. so does this one

[goldcanyonaz]

114. That's one groovy chick.

[rodeodance]

120. I have always liked that photo of Hillary.

[Whisp]

110. that and the fact that she lies through her teeth and likes war.

some role model.

[rodeodance]

122. Yes, BO lies through his teeth, He is not a good role model for Black boys.

[rodeodance]

111. BO is not a good role model for Black men and young Black boys. He got

to his position riding on the coattails of his wife Michele.
I think this is the wrong message to send to black boys.
He needs to send a message that it is up to YOU to get ahead.
BO would not be where he was if it were not for Michelle






......Hillary is not a good role model for women and young girls
Posted by Cali_Democrat


Hillary's candidacy sends the message that in order to be president you have to ride the coattails of your cheating husband. I think this is the wrong message to send to young girls. They need the message that it's up to YOU to get ahead. You have to work hard and don't expect anyone to cut you any slack. Hillary wouldn't be where she was if Bill wasn't her husband. It's the sad truth and I think she's hurting women in the long run. ....

[JohnnyLib2]

116. OMG

:popcorn:

[rodeodance]

117. It is terrible--BO ONLY got to where he is on the coattails of Michelle.

[Umbram]

121. Immature. Shame, SHAME!

I think I owed you one.

[Umbram]

119. Wow, maybe the lamest OP of the day. (nt)

[IsItJustMe]

124. Lamest, or the most truthful post of the day. Guess it depends on your perspective.

[Umbram]

143. I'm an Obama supporter; I'm sticking with lamest. (nt)

[Maribelle]

127. Funny, I read that exact rant in another forum from a guy that claims to be a freeper.

It's almost verbatim.

It those are not your original words, would you please indicate your source.

[rodeodance]

151. It is an old familiar siren call-that women have fought since the dawn of time.

[hulklogan]

131. Complete and utter crap.

A sitting two-term Senator and the woman who has come closest to winning her party's nomination for the presidency is definitely a good role model. By your argument, any woman who has a husband more "famous" than her is a bad role model, so I suppose your list would include Teresa Heinz Kerry, Melinda Gates and Michele Obama.

[JohnnyLib2]

134. Yup. Unintended consequences of the coat-tail argument, perhaps

but I sure do see a fall out from it after this crazy election.

[EFerrari]

136. Nope. Have you ever heard Teresa take credit for Kerry's work?

Michele knows she's not a sitting Senator. Melinda Gates has never said she founded Microsoft.

[hulklogan]

138. So Hillary Clinton is the only bad role model you can think of?

So full of hope and change you Obama supporters are!

[EFerrari]

139. Non sequitur. n/t

[DuaneBidoux]

137. We ALL, all humans and all humanity have ridden on the coattails of others...

No one would be where they are without the circumstance and decisions of others. The remark is not terribly bright (but I am sure that has something to do with the environment of the OP).

I seem to recall someone saying that Obama would not be where he is without being black--it is hard to see how this statement is all that much different.

Wherever she has been she is now earning her way into the Whitehouse (or not) as much as Obama or McCain are earning it.

[EFerrari]

140. The difference is Obama is not running AS a black man

but Clinton IS running AS a Clinton, which is why people started using "billary". So, no, the two statements are not the same at all.

[rodeodance]

149. Where you been? BO IS running as a Black man.

sfexpat2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Mar-22-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #137
140. The difference is Obama is not running AS a black man

but Clinton IS running AS a Clinton, which is why people started using "billary". So, no, the two statements are not the same at all.

[Why Syzygy]

145. Absolutely. She actually harms the cause for women's rights.

This is what I've been saying all along.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

148. Sometimes it just takes balls to be a women! but she won't crush yours, rest in peace

STFU

[Midlodemocrat]

150. Wow. What a pile of steaming horseshit.

[EFerrari]

153. How do you figure?

I'm pissed at Hillary for making herself a clone of Bill. You may be pissed because some of us feel that way.

I don't know what the solution is.

How is the OP wrong? I'll do my best to listen.

[Midlodemocrat]

154. I don't think anyone who has accomplished what she has

can be a 'bad role model'. I consider Britney a bad role model, not Hillary. She was a very accomplished prior to following in Bill's footsteps, and I don't see it that way. I don't see her as riding his coattails at all.

I think she is a very bright woman who has run a pretty bad campaign, but to even get THIS far negates her as a 'bad role model'. JMHO.

[EFerrari]

156. Okay. And I agree about getting this far and I'm glad she ran.

It was long past time we had a strong woman raise some hell in a national venue.

But not this way. And I guess for me, the means are as important as the ends. JMO

[Midlodemocrat]

158. I'm not a supporter of either at this point.

I was squarely in Kucinich's camp and then Edwards'.

I think they are both running nasty, nasty campaigns and I don't necessarily think the winner will be the one who has addressed the issues most squarely.

That being said, I will support the candidate in November, regardless. And, whether or not it is Obama or Hillary, history will be made and that is such an exciting thing to me, and to those kids, (like my daughter) who will vote for the first time.

As a woman, I just dislike seeing Hillary's accomplishments trashed as though her only value was as Bill's wife. For one thing, she raised a helluva kid.

I wish she was more liberal and less corporatist so that I could fully embrace her candidacy.

[EFerrari]

160. It IS exciting and we were there!

My problem with her is that maybe she went "safe" and instead of highlighting her accomplishments, Mark Penn or Hillary or someone thought it was a good idea to lump everything together. She doesn't have 30 years of executive experience and I think I'm mad at her for making that claim when maybe, just maybe, what she did really do was good enough, admirable and important.

I feel like she's disrespecting herself. :shrug:

I wish they were both more liberal. But, that's just the way the party is right now.

Anyway, thank you, MidLo.

[rodeodance]

155. BO is not a good role model for Black men and young Black boys.

Figure this one!


Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject BO is not a good role model for Black men and young Black boys. He got
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5204717#5207701
5207701, BO is not a good role model for Black men and young Black boys. He got
Posted by rodeodance on Sat Mar-22-08 10:50 AM

to his position riding on the coattails of his wife Michele.
I think this is the wrong message to send to black boys.
He needs to send a message that it is up to YOU to get ahead.
BO would not be where he was if it were not for Michelle

[fortyfeetunder]

152. All I will say, I don't agree with your analysis.

:hi:

[Recursion]

167. "role model" is a loaded term for both women and African Americans

I don't like seeing people talk about that. Notice nobody is asking if McCain is anybody's "role model", nor did anyone ask that about Biden, Dodd, or Edwards.

[Beacool]

168. Speak for your nasty self!!!!!!!!!!!

There are millions of women and girls throughout the world who would strongly disagree with you!!!

Keep it up, the more some of you spew vitriol against Hillary, the more plenty of us will rather get a root canal than vote for your Anointed One.

[Kurovski]

170. Manipulative, to say the least.

People will not remain silent on Clinton's errors and hypocrisy simply because of self-destructive threats on the part of her supporters.

Senator Clinton will make a better president than right-wing nutbag McCain, and so will Obama.

I hope you will soon face up to that fact. Women's rights may rise or fall depending on such decisions.

[Generic Brad]

173. I've got to agree with the Clinton supporters here

This is a spurious charge. Hillary Clinton has been an excellent role model over the years.

The statement that she would not be where she is today if it had not been for Bill being her husband cuts both ways. Bill probably would not have become president without her support and effort.

Senator Hillary Clinton is just as deserving to be where she is as the other two senators who are still campaigning to be our next president.

We have enough crap flying around on this board. Please keep the sexism out of the discussion.

[EFerrari]

179. Another false sexism charge.

Does DU just not know what sexism means?

You are right that Bill Clinton would not be where he is without her work and support. However, Bill Clinton never ran claiming her work as his own, did he or did I just miss that?

It's not good modeling to take credit for other people's work. Why is that so difficult to process?

[BumRushDaShow]

175. K&R

The type of ruthless tactics used have been a disgrace. She has said little or nothing truthful about her own experiences and merely exaggerates and prevaricates about her time in the WH.

[sueragingroz]

178. why are you still posting vitriol about Hillary?

I thought that :obama won already...

shouldn't you be focussing on McCrazy now?

just curious...

[knixphan]

180. coattails of any husband, for that matter

[Kurovski]

182. Next topic: Hillary is not a good model for young Democrats.

And I think the young ones already know that, may they be forever blessed.