Obama Can't Win a Fair Primary

[CatnHat]

Why doesn't the Obama campaign finally admit that they are dragging their feet in getting FL on track while they are disenfranchising the voters of FL? Why, because Obama and co. know damn well Hillary would end up winning the popular vote. It's really that simple. Looks like 800,000 voters are being "thrown under the bus" by Obama.

[woolldog]

1. Wow.

That seems like a big flaw in the democratic nomination process then. Someone should make sure that gets fixed for next time. :rofl:

[mopinko]

23. not this time

let it drop

[Alexander]

2. WAAAAAHHH! Queen Hillary won't get coronated! WAAAAAHHH!

Go cry yourself a river already.

[Spider Jerusalem]

"Crowned", not "coronated".

[Alexander]

14. Same thing.

[JoFerret]

40. Canonized do it for you?

.

[Life Long Dem]

3. Super Tuesday he wiped Hillary off the map!!

Besides that it is fair and Hillary is trying to cheat. You see you have it spun the other way around. It's pretty simple to do and makes you look like a lier. That's all.

[DemzRock]

29. That's an odd statement considering Hillary won...

A *LOT* of states on Super Tuesday... and the biggest ones too.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Summary of Super Tuesday results: Associated Press - 12:00:00 AM

WASHINGTON - State-by-state results from The Associated
Press of Tuesday's primaries and caucuses. The number of delegates is in
parentheses. In some states, only one party's election has been decided.
Elections are primaries unless otherwise indicated. WTA indicates winner
takes all.

ALABAMA (Democrats: 52; Republicans: 45)

DEMOCRATS: Barack Obama

REPUBLICANS: Mike Huckabee

___

ALASKA (Caucuses _ D: 13; R: 26)

DEMOCRATS: Barack Obama

REPUBLICANS: Mitt Romney

___

ARIZONA (D: 56; R: 53)

DEMOCRATS: Hillary Rodham Clinton !!!!!

REPUBLICANS: John McCain

___

ARKANSAS (Dems: 35; GOP: 31)

DEMOCRATS: Hillary Rodham Clinton !!!!!

REPUBLICANS: Mike Huckabee

___

CALIFORNIA (D: 370; R: 170)

DEMOCRATS: Hillary Rodham Clinton !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

REPUBLICANS: John McCain

___

COLORADO (Caucuses _ D: 55; R: 43)

DEMOCRATS: Barack Obama

REPUBLICANS: Mitt Romney

___

CONNECTICUT (Dems: 48; GOP: 27 WTA)

DEMOCRATS: Barack Obama

REPUBLICANS: John McCain

___

DELAWARE (Dems: 15; GOP: 18 WTA)

DEMOCRATS: Barack Obama

REPUBLICANS: John McCain

___

GEORGIA (Dems: 87; GOP: 72)

DEMOCRATS: Barack Obama

REPUBLICANS: Mike Huckabee

___

IDAHO (Caucus _ D: 18)

DEMOCRATS: Barack Obama

___

ILLINOIS (Dems: 153; GOP: 57)

DEMOCRATS: Barack Obama

REPUBLICANS: John McCain

___

KANSAS (Caucus _ D: 32)

DEMOCRATS: Barack Obama

___

MASSACHUSETTS (Dems: 93; GOP: 40)

DEMOCRATS: Hillary Rodham Clinton !!!!!

REPUBLICANS: Mitt Romney

___

MINNESOTA (Caucuses _ D: 72; R: 38)

DEMOCRATS: Barack Obama

REPUBLICANS: Mitt Romney

___

MISSOURI (D: 72; R: 58)

REPUBLICANS: John McCain

DEMOCRATS: Barack Obama

___

MONTANA (Caucus _ R: 25)

REPUBLICANS: Mitt Romney

___

NEW JERSEY (Dems: 107; GOP: 52 WTA)

DEMOCRATS: Hillary Rodham Clinton !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

REPUBLICANS: John McCain

___

NEW YORK (Dems: 232; GOP: 101 WTA)

DEMOCRATS: Hillary Rodham Clinton !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

REPUBLICANS: John McCain

___

NORTH DAKOTA (Caucuses _ D: 13; R: 26)

DEMOCRATS: Barack Obama

REPUBLICANS: Mitt Romney

___

OKLAHOMA (Dems: 38; GOP:38)

DEMOCRATS: Hillary Rodham Clinton !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

REPUBLICANS: John McCain

___

TENNESSEE (Dems: 68; GOP:52)

DEMOCRATS: Hillary Rodham Clinton !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

REPUBLICANS: Mike Huckabee

___

UTAH (Dems: 23; GOP: 36)

DEMOCRATS: Barack Obama

REPUBLICANS: Mitt Romney

___

WEST VIRGINIA (GOP state convention: 18 WTA)

REPUBLICANS: Mike Huckabee (18)

[roguevalley]

38. well, since you started with my state for your slur, stuff it. ALL THE

STATES COUNT! Jeez. You would think this was the USSR with the only WHITE RUSSIA COUNTS and everything else is Kazakhstan. No wonder the woman is losing.

[MercutioATC]

4. We get the government we deserve.

The people of MI and FL elected the legislators who got their delegates thrown out.

This isn't Obama's fault...it's not the DNC's fault. It's the fault of the Democratic legislators who voted to break the rules...and, ultimately, the fault of the people who elected them.

[ThatPoetGuy]

7. "It's the fault of the Democratic legislators who voted to break the rules"

Actually, in Florida, it was the Republican state legislature that voted to do this, knowing it could disenfranchise the Democratic primary voters.

[crispini]

9. every single democrat but one voted for it

try again

[riskpeace]

27. It was attached to a verified voting bill

The GOP-led legislature attached the primary move to a bill that mandated a paper trail and got rid of touch screens.

My representative, like every legislator in about a 100-mile radius, is Republican. I guess this Democratic voter and contributor is just shit out of luck. It's that supposed attitude by the Obama campaign that really turns me off. It really just seems like old-style politics of division.

[crispini]

30. I know what it feels like to be SOL.

I had nothing but Rs representing me for a looooooong time. And I have never, ever had my primary vote count, since it's always passed me by. I guess I don't see why you're just blaming the Obama campaign. The legislators took a risk and it failed. It's unfortunate, but if we are ever to get any control over the primary, which would be highly desirable, there have to be some kind of consequences.

I am sure the delegates will be seated in some fashion.

[riskpeace]

33. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

I really appreciate your willingness to see this from my frustrated perspective. If I implied that I am just blaming the Obama campaign, then I did not do a good job of expressing my opinion.

I hold the DNC far more responsible, along with the Republican Party of Florida and the Democratic Party of Florida. The Republican-led legislature took a risk and it turned out really well for the GOP and has created a gigantic mess for the Democratic party. Gov. Crist is lined up for VP consideration because of the primary move and his timely endorsement of Senator McCain. And the people of Florida got rid of touch screens and got a paper trail. While the RNC took half the delegates and avoided this mess, the DNC over-reacted and penalized their base in two key swing states.

I believe that the GOP realizes that people are more persuaded by emotion than they are by logic. In my opinion, the Democratic party has not grasped this simple truth of persuasion. Sure, there are logical arguments to make that the Democratic Party of Florida shares responsibility for this obvious mess. At the same time, the DNC had a choice to respond just like the RNC. But for this Florida Democratic voter, the emotion of being stripped of the basic American right really outweighs any logical argument about responsibility or respective roles. I suspect that I am not alone in responding emotionally. And that the strategy of alienating your base in two key swing states is not going to work out very well, no matter who the nominee is.

[Hepburn]

12. Ummmmm....you conveniently forgot that all but on Dem voted with them.

Nice spin....well, more like a lie.

[goddess40]

26. The Dem's voted for it to get a paper trail

but they made the choice and the paper trail was more important than seating their delegates. I believe they made the right choice.

[MercutioATC]

35. ...and every Dem legislator save one voted with them.

Had the Dems in FL put up ANY sort of resistance, do you doubt that the DNC would have figured out a way to make things work?

The Dems in FL voted to move up the date.

[krispos42]

5. You still have 54 minutes to reverse your idiocy

Tick tick tick tick tick...

[Divine Discontent]

6. as a floridian (who's not sunburnt)

I lay clear and obvious blame on Thurman, and the rest of the Democratic Party of FL. Our representatives in the legislature failed to do what was right, and set up this stupid early date that caused this dreadful outcome. This has very little to do with Barack Obama. You can always edit your post, I know I have in the past when I've been wrong - and I think it's easily verifiable that you're in the wrong. Blame Thurman and the State Reps & Senators, who failed the Democratic voters of FL yet again!

[Raine]

8. Silly...

:silly: :rofl:

[casus belli]

10. Obama didn't disenfranchise anyone.

The DNC made very clear the repercussions for moving the primaries up before Feb. 5th. They seem stunned that they stuck to their guns and followed through on their promise.

[CatnHat]

13. Obama go-to person

Donna "Don't even think about a 'do-over'" Brazile, a go-to person for the Obama's strategy being pushed out, says:

I believe the DNC had no choice in 2004 but to enforce its rules. Therefore, regarding Florida and Michigan, I believe that in spite of the risk of alienating millions of voters in states that could ultimately decide the election this fall, Howard Dean and party officials must also stick to the rules.With two-thirds of the primary contests already completed, the DNC cannot allow the Florida and Michigan delegates to decide the nomination. It would be wrong. And it would be dangerous....

http://www.middlesborodailynews.com/articles/2008/03/07/opinion/editorials/989brazile.txt


Guess the Obama campaign really doesn't care about "alienating millions of voters". Call it what you want--Obama and his camp are sticking it to the people of FL big time.

[40ozDonkey]

15. Stop putting words in Floridians mouths.

Jeremy Ring and Steve Geller are responsible for this mess. Where was your outrage last year?

You didn't give a shit about Florida until Hillary needed Florida. Hit the bricks, carpetbagger.

[cliffordu]

37. AMEN!

[ecdab]

28. Donna Brizile is an undeclared "super delegate" - try again.

If she was a "go-to person" for Obama it would be reasonable to assume that she wouldn't be sitting on the fence when both candidates need "super delegate" help very badly.

[TML]

11. Why Doesn't Florida

Admit they don't know how to run an election. They screwed up in 2000 and 2008. No mulligans.

[rucky]

16. The candidates don't set primaries. n/t

[cooolandrew]

17. The re-vote has nothing to do with Obama that is Hillary spin they contorl their vote.

[Vinca]

18. If Michigan and Florida had left their primaries alone, I think

Edwards might have won Michigan, followed by Obama and then Clinton. Florida probably would have gone Clinton, but Obama would have nearly tied her. It's really too bad the states screwed around and ended up in this position, but I'm getting pretty tired of it being blamed on Obama. Both states can have an election today without the permission of either candidate. You're using Obama as a scapegoat to justify Hillary's overall loss.

[Orsino]

19. You're exactly right...

...except for all those fair primaries he won.

[totodeinhere]

20. He has already won a multitude of "fair" primaries.

[saltpoint]

21. FL and MI thought they'd ignore papa's curfew and stay out as late as they

like.

Turns out papa didn't care for their impudence, and the curfew holds.

I support Dean in this. Forewarned is forearmed, and FL and MI screwed up.

[Bensthename]

22. Why won't Hillary play by the rules? Obama is. It's that simple really.

[LittleClarkie]

24. So every last primary he won, even all the ones he won in a row, were all unfair

Got an facts to back up that rather hefty accusation?

[SoCalDem]

25. But she didn't.

She failed to calculate that most people just aren't that "into her".

Her people have turned her into a vindictive, petty, mean, win-at-any-cost, delusional, pathetic person..

I used to feel sorry for her because of how Bill humiliated her, but now I pity her for embarrassing herself so totally :(

[fenriswolf]

31. Michigan state senate voted no to a do over, get over it. nt

[Kahuna]

32. "Fair" and "Florida" in the same breath?????

:rofl:

[stevietheman]

34. Please stop attacking our nominee Barack Obama. n/t

n/t

[LordJFT]

36. Obama's won more fair primaries than Hillary

[ElsewheresDaughter]

39. and 1 time crossover Repuke voters in open caucuses does not a winer make

[ElsewheresDaughter]

41. because it was a closed primary O doesn't like them

[ProSense]

42. Add the more than 800,000 votes from MI and FL, and Hillary is still losing.

Summary of tables (recalculated with new delegate counts) show Obama's delegate lead in every scenario:

Total Delegates: 4048 ** W/o FL & MI - Current Status ** Needed: 2024.5
Pledged Delegates Obama 1415, Clinton 1245
Superdelegates Obama 213, Clinton 248

Total Delegates: 4415 ** With FL & MI included - Results upheld** Needed: 2208
Pledged Delegates Obama 1482, Clinton 1423
Superdelegates Obama 218, Clinton 263

Total Delegates:4415 ** With FL & MI (Obama gets MI 55) ** Needed: 2208
Pledged Delegates Obama 1537, Clinton 1423
Superdelegates Obama 218, Clinton 263

Total Delegates: 4415 ** With MI & FL 50/50 ** Needed: 2208
Pledged Delegates Obama 1565, Clinton 1395
Superdelegates Obama 218, Clinton 263

Total Delegates: 4309.5 ** MI 50/50 FL 1/2 Vote ** Needed: 2155
Pledged Delegates Obama 1415, Clinton 1245
Superdelegates Obama 213, Clinton 248

Total Delegates: 4415 ** FL & MI will Re-Vote ** Needed: 2208
Pledged Delegates Obama 1415, Clinton 1245
Superdelegates Obama 218, Clinton 263

Source: Total and needed delegates

Popular Vote Total
13,281,132 (49.5%)
12,577,409 (46.9%)
Obama +703,523 (+2.6%)

Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA*
13,615,217 49.5%
12,801,470 46.6%
Obama +813,747 (+2.9%)

Popular Vote (w/FL)
13,857,346 (48.5%)
13,448,395 (47.1%)
Obama +408,951 (+1.4%)

Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA*
14,191,431 (48.5%)
13,672,256 46.8%
Obama +519,175 (+1.8%)

Popular Vote (w/FL & MI)**
13,857,346 (47.5%)
13,776,704 (47.3%)
Obama +80,642 (+0.2%)

Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA*
14,191,431 (47.6%)
14,000,565 (46.9%)
Obama +190,866 (+0.6)

link

Of course, giving Hillary MI votes would mean disenfranchising Obama supporters in MI, but I don't think she cares about that.

Hillary can't win