Obama struggles to limit damage in pastor row as white voters slip away

[babsbunny]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/22/uselections2008.barackobama


Daniel Nasaw in Philadelphia and Ewen MacAskill in Washington The Guardian, Saturday March 22 2008 Article historyAbout this articleClose This article appeared in the Guardian on Saturday March 22 2008 . It was last updated at 02:14 on March 22 2008.
Barack Obama looks at his wireless device in Beckley, West Virginia. Photograph: Alex Brandon/AP

Listen for a few minutes to Joey Vento, owner of a south Philadelphia institution that serves gut-busting sandwiches through a takeaway hatch, and the scale of Barack Obama's problems become apparent. Obama is having the worst week of his campaign. It is, some believe, a week that threatens his chances of becoming president.

"That minister, that was terrible, all his sayings. He's preaching hatred," Vento said. "The thing I didn't like about Obama; you're telling me for 20 years you been going to that church and you never heard that?"

[elizm]

1. Tired argument...

:boring:

[Tellurian]

8. Not tired, a Truthful one!

Most of the people I know who were for him, have dumped him!

[Hepburn]

15. Or they have said that to you just to make you STFU.

Ever consider that one? :eyes:

[ThatBozGuy]

17. No a lagged one, the truth just hasn't caught up with the perception, just like other such slow info

Like Ms Clinton won Texas, wrong, but it took time for the truth to catch up to the perception, same thing here.

[Window]

27. Do you believe the real truth will come out? The tapes in context

have appeared several times on DU but, judging from some comments, people won't take the time to listen to them. Once listened to, I cannot believe it wouldn't change a person's mind about what Rev. Wright really said, even if they won't admit it out loud.

The video in context is over at HuffPo. As I was looking through the comments section, all except 1-2 die-hard Hillary supporters were appalled at what had been done to Rev. Wright, his church and Senator Obama, and were very apologetic and angry. They were not only sharing the video with friends, family and co-workers, they writing and e-mailing the video to all news outlets.



Peace:thumbsup:

[stillcool]

33. The media will not opine...

on the life and times of Reverend Wright. Any follow up story will be found in the back of a newspaper. Even if the internet pushes the story into prime time, I wouldn't expect much from the talk shows. They've moved on to the 'typical white' thing.

[ThatBozGuy]

50. The media won't shout it from rooftops, Mr Wright will be fine,the truth has a way of gradul healing

The thing we have to remember here is we are political junkys in rarefied air.

We hear and see so much more impact than the real world actually does.

The impact on Mr Wright was offset by the same amount of positive people that had never been exposed to him.

Those that hate him will hate him and those like him will like him and when all is said and done in the real
world that means its a wash and means nothing, he still gets up and puts his pants on the same way as he did
3 months ago.

He still will continue to be who he is and thats more important than any equal and opposite fix
that he needs.

He doesn't need fixed Mr Wright isn't broken.

Guess what there were people that hated him before and there will be people that the tomorrow, and there were
people that respected him yesterday there are people that will respect him tomorrow,the numbers may shift but
the reality stays the same.

He is who he is and he will be fine.

[barb162]

26. I notice the same thing; H'es not doing well in polling lately.

[Kittycat]

39. Sorry - I don't believe you for a second.

[MH1]

54. No, FREEPER argument.

Look downthread for who Joey Vento is. He's been in the news quite a bit. In Philly, that is. "Speak English!"

[Bensthename]

2. To be expected so soon after this BS. But, his polls are climbing up again as we speak...

[Enrique]

4. and the primary there is still a month away

plenty of time to give people a chance to think, wait a minute, how much does this thing really matter?

[joeybee12]

3. Obama's problem is not race, it's credibility...people are rightfully

skeptical when he says he never heard some of the more divisive comments. It's beyond belief, really.

[maddiejoan]

5. Maybe he didn't hear the sermons

I always snuck out for a cigarette break during my Rabbi's sermons. Maybe Obama did too!

[JTFrog]

10. PhotoShop. The HillaryWorld Band-Aid of Choice. n/t

[maddiejoan]

12. It being a photoshop

doesn't alter the observation.

Think of it as an illustration, and try not to get your blood pressure up, darlin'

[JTFrog]

20. More like insight to the HillaryWorld Illustrator's inverted cranium perspective.

Massive amounts of winning have been good for my soul and my blood pressure, pumpkin.

[maddiejoan]

21. Because winning is all you care about

It matters not to you who gets elected as long as it's your man, sweetcheecks.

The Obama campaign is only about getting Obama elected --after that? Then what?

[JTFrog]

24. Yet another Opposite Day in HillaryWorld.

HillaryWorld, Where Obama will go down as the "anything to win" candidate.

Reality, try a dose:

[maddiejoan]

29. Obama's Campaign

has been opposite day on every day since day #1.

Why don't you wake up and see him for the slime merchant he is --instead of the shiny armored Knight that you seem to think he is.

[JTFrog]

31. You can say that with a straight face, knowing that the Empress has No Clothes? n/t

[maddiejoan]

40. Yes I Can

[JTFrog]

44. Yet you need to use "illustration"

read "illusion" to try to sell your spin. All you need now is a bigger soap box and maybe you can win this for Hillary after all.

Good luck with that.

[maddiejoan]

45. Do you deny that Obama was a smoker?

Otherwise --where are you going with this?

[joeybee12]

23. sweetie, we came up with Obama World first...be more creative...

...I know Obama has nothing original, but could his supporters try to be a little original? Just a tad? Many, many thanks in advance.

[JTFrog]

25. That's your claim to fame? No wonder this hasn't worked out they way you hoped. n/t

[joeybee12]

32. Please see the thread going around about hate...

...then honestly reply where it all started.

[JTFrog]

37. Please see post #5.

The illusion, smoke and mirrors, snake-oil peddling started right there in this thread.

It's an ugly game. Toss a grenade then scream bloody murder when some of the shrapnel embeds itself in the tosser.

[mopinko]

42. let it drop

not this time.

[JTFrog]

46. *sigh*

You're right of course.

Time to get out of here.

See ya when it's all over.

Thanks.

JT

[mopinko]

49. change you can believe in

if we just can do this for each other, this shit will die down.
yes we can.

[Bensthename]

11. He may have heard some of the bad. But that was maybe 1% of the sermons

No reason to get in a huff about it. And Obama may have told Wright to calm down. We dont know.

[joeybee12]

35. We also know he told Wright he had to distance himself from the campaign...

...he knew most of what this guy said...and if you can't disavow him just as you can disavow your grandmother, then he knows exactly what Wright is all about. I personally don't have a problem--that much--with most of what Wright said...I have a problem with BO saying he didn't know.

[barb162]

28. His credibilty is pretty well gone.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

6. MSM is out of touch

judging by the polls

[JTFrog]

7. Be prepared for more "struggles" ahead for Obama!

[goddess40]

9. How many of those "whites" challenge their preachers?

Not to damn many. Our local Catholic churches were preaching how great the war was and no one came forward to challenge that bullshit either.

[Bensthename]

13. EXACTLY. My Church encourages to always vote for the republican candidate.. Its Disgusting

[NNN0LHI]

16. Why do you keep going then?

[Bensthename]

36. Well. it is like that all around here. I'm aetheist and just go for my wife. It makes her happy

that I go. I just take a good book to read and some paper to doodle on.

[NNN0LHI]

48. Do you donate money to these right wing freaks?

[Bensthename]

52. I pretend to put money in but I actually take some out.. JKing, I dont let her give much.

[Tellurian]

14. You hit them where it hurts.. the money basket..

until they reflect the wishes of the Congregation. Not donate $23,000 to their Church ministry.

[Hepburn]

19. Soooooooo....

...you withhold donations to feed the poor ~~ like running a soup kitchen ~~ because you do not agree 100% with the pastor.

My, how HILLARY of you. :eyes:

[Tellurian]

34. Don't even try that crap with me!

Oh, Happy Easter!

[Hepburn]

43. Soooooooooo.....

....you would donate to the poor? And, please: If you don't want it dished back to you...don't start it and yell "unfair" after you get back in kind what you started.

And whatever on Easter, I am an atheist....but I do believe it is tomorrow and not today. Happy Egg and Chocolate Day to you, too.

[Tellurian]

56. Heres something for you to believe in right here:

[barb162]

30. That's right and you don't put the man on your campaign committee

when running as a unity candidate.

[mw]

18. Obama's pastors remarks aren't worse than Con Christian remarks

Some of the things Falwell et al have said are just as hateful.

The only difference is: Falwell et al damns everyone in America NOT LIKE THEM. Wright just blanketed his damnation on the whole nation.

[sniffa]

22. Oh, you mean this asshole?

Yeah, I'm not surprised Joey Vento feels that way.

[GarbagemanLB]

38. Holy shit, THAT'S the guy who was quoted? HAHAHA. Wow, Hillbots still using right-wingers to support

their arguments. Pretty sad.

[sniffa]

41. Yep. She's going for this kinda voter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geno%27s

[EFerrari]

47. I thought that's who it was! LOL!

Good catch.

[jgraz]

51. Yep, Joey Fucking Vento. Expect sage wisdom from David Duke next

[EFerrari]

59. Why doesn't she just campaign with the corpse of George Wallace?

:)

[sniffa]

62. DIG UP HIS GRAVE! DIG UP HIS GRAVE!

[EFerrari]

65. LOL!

:rofl:

[jgraz]

67. I thought that's what this guy was

[EFerrari]

72. I've begun to think that Bill has something going on

healthwise because he's hitting all the wrong notes. And surely a politician as skilled as he has been would know pitting blue collar voters against black voters would blow up.

On the other hand, it wouldn't be surprising if the next press conference is held at the door to Central High. I just REALLY HOPE I don't have to see that. :scared:

[sniffa]

55. Thanks

If anyone exudes white resentment, it's Joey Vento.

A sign on Geno's window gained press notoriety in 2006, during the immigration controversy. The sign reads: "This Is America: When Ordering Please 'Speak English'." The Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations filed a discrimination complaint, arguing that Geno's violated the city's Fair Practices Ordinance, which prohibits discrimination in public accommodation, by "denying service to someone because of his or her national origin, and having printed material making certain groups of people feel their patronage is unwelcome."<2> Vento had previously said the signs are directed at the Mexican immigrants in the surrounding neighborhood.<3>

Vento says no one has been refused service for not speaking English, but said, "If I can't understand you, you might not get the sandwich you thought you ordered."<2>

The Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations found probable cause that the sign is discriminatory. The commission says the sign could make non-English-speakers feel unwelcome or discriminated against.<4>

Vento enlisted the aid of the Southeastern Legal Foundation, a public-interest legal organization.<4> In 2006 the Foundation had defended a bar owner cited by the Ohio Civil Rights Commission for a sign reading "For Service, Speak English." That case was settled when the owner removed the sign.<5>

Responding in an interview with Fox News analyst Neil Cavuto, Vento stated that he does not turn away any customer, and therefore does not discriminate. He also vowed to keep his sign displayed no matter how much pressure he receives. He explained to Cavuto that his parents had to learn English when they came to the U.S. He said that if his customers order in any other language, he'll give them Cheez Whiz on bread. Vento posed some rhetorical questions: "If one goes into a Puerto Rican neighborhood, how many signs would be seen in English?," and "When one is on the telephone, it may say press 1 for English, press 2 for Spanish; but where is the number for, say, Italian or Korean?"

After the story gained national attention, Philadelphia City Councilman James Kenney said, "He went on his little act and hit the talk shows. He's like a legend in his own mind. He's spun it so that he's a martyr in people's minds in order to gain financial benefit. He's a selfish individual."<6>

On March 19, 2008, Philadelphia's Commission on Human Relations ruled that the restaurant did not violate the city's Fair Practices Ordinance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geno%27s

[MH1]

53. Yeah, Joey Vento talking about "hatred"?!?

:rofl:

I am sorry I avoided this thread so long, someone should have pointed that out at the very top!

Anyone reccing this garbage doesn't live in Philly, or they'd know who Joey Vento is.

It's almost like quoting freeperville.

[sniffa]

58. I don't live in Philly, but I recognized the name, and thought it was him

[Yael]

69. The irony of that was overwhelming to we who-be-local

Between the sout' Philly accent and the drunk Eagles fans its a wonder anyone communicates at all in that neighborhood.

:D

[Unsane]

57. The Guardian is a clueless foreign right wing rag

[goldcanyonaz]

60. The Guardian was a great source when they were ripping apart Hillary. Now? Not so much.

[bicentennial_baby]

61. It's who they're quoting that's the issue...

See above

[EFerrari]

63. You do know that the "voter" quoted in this article is a notorious racist, right?

[goldcanyonaz]

66. Not surprising for the Guadian to use this person as a source. They're considered a rag overseas.

I just never understood why so many here use the Guardian as a source to further their point. Much like how Dick Morris is used around here in regards to Obama. Dick Morris is as much of a friend to Obama as Rush Limbaugh is to Hillary Clinton.

[npincus]

64. OLD NEWZ... check Raz... Obama ascending, Hillary Descending

[Orsino]

68. Last week's wishful thinking...

...unsupported by facts.

[intheozone]

70. The thing about the pastor issue is it puts Obama's authenticity in question.

Obama is supposed to be a post-racial candidate, one who transcends the race issue, goes beyond it to feel that we all are one color, one race. Yet, his mentor is someone who still sees and feels the differences between the races and apparently still harbors some resentments about racial inequality.

Also, Michelle Obama has made comments in speeches and interviews that make it seem like she stills views things through racial lenses.

So I question how much of the Obama image is real and how much has been manufactured by his handlers for selling to the public.

But, I still believe Obama's biggest problems are his lack of experience and that he hasn't really been vetted and has never been tested in a way that compares to the job he is applying for.

[EFerrari]

71. Moving beyond your mentor isn't very unusual, is it?

That's a pretty standard situation for teachers and students. :)