Why should Hillary drop out of the race?

[GoldieAZ49]

I thought the Democratic party wanted every vote to count. Apparently some that call themselves democrats do not.

Having alienated Florida and Michigan, now there is a call for disenfranchising voters from the remaining states that have yet to vote.

So much for democracy. What happened to the '50 state strategy'? Ask yourself if your vote should count.

Should Democrats show the country that we are better at disenfranchising voters than the Republicans?

Why does the Obama campaign and supports keep pressuring, suggesting, demanding (and yes even begging on this board) that she should drop out?

Simply put, they are afraid Hillary will win over the delegates, pledged and super.

Thats right, all delegates can change their votes to whoever they think can win in November both pledged and super delegates.

This strategy was confirmed to me by a high-ranking Clinton official on Monday. And I am not talking about ssuper delegates, those 795 party big shots who are not pledged to anybody. I am talking about getting pledged delegates to switch sides.

What? Isn’t that impossible? A pledged delegate is pledged to a particular candidate and cannot switch, right?

Wrong.

Pledged delegates are not really pledged at all, not even on the first ballot. This has been an open secret in the party for years, but it has never really mattered because there has almost always been a clear victor by the time the convention convened.

But not this time. This time, one candidate may enter the convention leading by just a few pledged delegates, and those delegates may find themselves being promised the sun, moon and stars to switch sides.

“I swear it is not happening now, but as we get closer to the convention, if it is a stalemate, everybody will be going after everybody’s delegates,” a senior Clinton official told me Monday afternoon. “All the rules will be going out the window.”

Rules of good behavior, maybe. But, in fact, the actual rules of the party allow for such switching. The notion that pledged delegates must vote for a certain candidate is, according to the Democratic National Committee, a “myth.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8583.html

After the Rev. Wright shocker in the past 10 days many may change their minds, even tho their state primary is over. Do not kid yourself, the damage done is greater than what shows in the polls.

How can you win the nomination when the math looks so bleak for you?
It doesn't look bleak at all. I have a very close race with Senator Obama. There are elected delegates, caucus delegates and superdelegates, all for different reasons, and they're all equal in their ability to cast their vote for whomever they choose. Even elected and caucus delegates are not required to stay with whomever they are pledged to. This is a very carefully constructed process that goes back years, and we're going to follow the process.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/120062/page/2

As more 'vetting' of Obama continues and additional bombshells may come out party leaders are, after all, responsible first to preserving the party's reputation in the country. Putting forth the most electable candidate.

Hillary is doing the right thing, she will continue to run an aggressive campaign down to the last primary in this election cycle, and well she should.

This is a democracy after all, and every vote counts, the process will, and should, run its course.

[Seeker30]

1. Obamabots love bullying

Which is why Obama can only win Caucasuses.

[earthlover]

20. Obama has won primaries too....did you just wake up from hibernation or something?

[jgraz]

29. You should also tell *Ignored* that Obama has won quite a few more primaries than Hilly

[Thickasabrick]

97. Great tagline - I just noticed. LOL - I was 100% Edwards - now

it's Obama.

[Seeker30]

41. Look at the difference, this speaks volumes

The asterisks are caucus states; the non-asterisks are primary states.

[jgraz]

57. WTF is this shit? Your "data" ends at Super Tuesday

Since then, 8 out of Obama's 15 wins have been primaries.

Of course, this whole argument is bullshit. It's not our problem your candidate can't win a caucus to save her life.

[UALRBSofL]

27. You said a lot of truth there

The Obama supporters are bullying and have a "win at all cost attitude". MSM has picked up on it and have been reporting how they slam all the Clinton sites and blogs with hate filled comments. It's pretty scary thinking about it. They seem to have that Rev Wright type of behavior. I think a lot of this goes back to Axelrod and Obama and the way they have run the campaign.

[pocoloco]

2. Short answer

She may steal a primary but has absolutely no chance in the general.

[GoldieAZ49]

4. That is for the delegates to decide.

That is why we have this process.

[Road Scholar]

22. But the process has to have rules, it was never intended to

prove women's equality.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. She's Doing About The Same Against McCain As Obama

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_clinton-224.html


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

[shadowknows69]

3. "How did your brain even learn human speech?"

-Wash

[jgraz]

6. Which part of "she cannot win" don't you understand?

The process HAS run its course, and the decision has been made. You may yell about 2024 delegates, but that's like pointing out that there's still time on the clock in at the end of a 35-7 football game.

The outcome of this contest has been determined. All Hillary is doing at this point is damaging the party, herself and our inevitable nominee.

[BzaDem]

15. The word "cannot."

If you replace it with "can" (for all the reasons the poster mentioned), then I can understand the sentence.

[jgraz]

35. OK... She *cannot* catch him in pledged delegates or popular vote

So she will need over 70% of the remaining superdelegates to overturn the will of the voters. How does that happen? Give me a reasonable scenario.

[GoldieAZ49]

21. the delegates have not voted so it has not 'run its course'

without a delegate vote there is no nominee.

[jgraz]

23. Like I said, it's 35-7 and there are 2 minutes left

Which team is going to win?

[dchill]

32. Possibly, the winner will be the team with...

the ability to re-rig the scoreboard! Or suddenly get the league to change the value of THEIR field goals to 30 points. Then all they would need is a field goal!

[lark]

60. Great at math, aren't you?

35-7 hmm, so he's 5x as many delegates as her? Don't think so. Make that analogy 35-32 and the math is much closer. He's a little more than a hundred ahead of her out of 2025 needed(?), so that's a pretty slim margin. Plus he has lost most of the Dem voters in two very important states, so is very wounded if he is the candidate. His arrogance and win at all costs, even if it means destroying our values by disenfranchising voters, could easily cost the Dems a chance at running the country is at least a semi-sane manner. Happy?

[jgraz]

64. Oh, you really don't want to bring the math, do you?

Tell me: in the best-case scenario, what percentage of the remaining super delegates does Hillary need to take the nomination?

After you can tell me that, then tell me how she gets there.



Yeah, you're goddamn right it's 35-7. Those numbers may not seem correct to your overly literal little mind, but the sentiment is dead on. IT'S OVER.

[Hepburn]

28. What graz said! n/t

[SoCalDem]

54. tehy don't likez teh mathz..

:rofl:

and have refused all offers of help from math tutors, no doubt..

remember Karl Rove's taunt... THE MATH?..

methinks they have borrowed Karl's math book and are studying up on how to make it work for THEM :rofl:

[DeSwiss]

7. Well, there are many, many reasons....

....http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5194102">How about because... she's a lying sack of poo?



on edit: added proof ----> http://youtube.com/watch?v=iOsGo_HWP-c">Youtube CBS News report link

[Submariner]

8. Because she is a chronic LIAR...see link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5194102

[shellinaya]

9. She shouldn't

Hillary should definitely not drop out. Maybe Obama should. He's the one who hangs out with "mentors" who seem to hate our country and our government and typical white women. If I hung out with a bigot like that I'd drop out.

I read this morning that Rev. Wright is still on the campaign. He didn't quit or go home or any of that, he's still an advisor.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

19. Pat Buchanan, is that you?

[jgraz]

24. Not unless Unca Pat used to post as MagsDem or CyberPieHole

I'm guessing MagsDem on this one. It has her special "flair".

[dchill]

103. "I read this morning...." - yeah, you must read...

old newspapers. Or Freeper blogs.

[MannyGoldstein]

10. What's Wrong With This?

I'm going to hold my own primary. Right in my home town. I'll have it Jan. 1st of each election year. And I'll send 100 delegates to the convention.

Do you see any reason why my votes and delegates shouldn't be honored?

[jgraz]

12. Why not? Every vote counts.

I just voted for you with my mind. And, I've promoted myself to superdelegate. Make sure to let them know in Denver!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. What?

I have yet to hear a logical retort to my query why my vote shouldn't count because someone else messed up?

[jgraz]

45. It's called reality

If you're in MI or FL this year, your primary vote ain't gonna count. Period.

If you want to be pissed, go be pissed at the state officials who fucked you over.

[lark]

66. There's enough anger to go around

Yeah, the pols in FL, MI and DNC deserve most of the hate, but Obama is up there too by fostering the idiocy and disenfranchisement for his own selfish needs. You know for sure that if FL and MI had the "sense" to vote for him, the votes would all of a sudden be very important and would probably be counted. How do we know this for sure, by his changing rationale on the superdelegates.

I also love the denigrating, racist, typical white woman snark about his grandmother.

[jgraz]

69. It's only racist snark if you use the old "one drop" metric

As in "one drop" of black blood makes you black.

Last I checked, it's not racist to criticize one's own race. Obama is just as white as he is black. The people calling that remark racist just look at his dark skin and see a black man.

Like you just did.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

71. Doesn't Make It Right Or Just

I could be at a 7-11 at the same time it was robbed and the perp could shoot me in the head... I'd still be dead...That's reality...It doesn't make it right or just...

I can't even be blamed tangentially for the Florida Legislature's decision because my state senator and representative are Republicans whom I did not vote for...

At the end of the day my vote didn't count... It's might be "reality" but it's not moral, just, or equitable...

[jgraz]

77. Let me rephrase: It doesn't mean that your crappy state officials should hose the rest of us

All the Fl and MI Clintonites are screaming about disenfranchisement, but it doesn't seem to worry you that two sham elections could overturn the will of the rest of the country.

You got hosed. That sucks. But it shouldn't change the outcome of this nomination. In fact, it CAN'T change the outcome of the nomination. Even with the bogus FL and MI results, Hillary still needs over 65% of the supers in order to "win" the nomination.

That just ain't gonna happen.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

84. Dr. King Said An "Injustice Anywhere Is A Threat To Justice Everywhere"

The folks in Florida and Michigan didn't deserve to be disenfranchised because their leaders fucked up...

All that needed to be done was to hold new primaries... If the DNC had any integrity they would withhold camaign funds from the elected Democratic leaders in MI and FL who monkied around with the dates and not punish the voters...

I will never give another dime to the party after they fucked me over...

[jgraz]

90. And the Clinton campaign said "Oooh -- look at the scary black man"

OK, I'm paraphrasing.

But, frankly, I wouldn't mind it if the Clintonites refrained from quoting MLK at me while their candidate was busy ginning up a race war in order to steal the nomination.

[dchill]

109. Plus - if FL & MI get revotes, they would be ...

in a BETTER position than they would have been with their early primaries - a better position to determine our party's nominee. Completely unfair, especially since they deliberately broke the rules. To quote you, "That just ain't gonna happen."

[Usrename]

83. You should start your own party and treat people more fairly.

These just happen to be the rules in this party.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

85. Yeah

Treating people fairly is superfluous and it has no part in a political party...

[jgraz]

91. But .. WHICH PEOPLE???

That's the problem. It ISN'T fair that FL and MI are getting fucked over. But it's also not fair to have their current bogus results used to affect the outcome for everyone else.

Can you not see that there are two offsetting injustices here? The right thing to do would have been for FL and MI to leave their primaries where they were supposed to be. Once they refused to do that, somebody was gonna get fucked over.

[Milo_Bloom]

11. Because each day she gets in, it becomes harder and harder...

For a democrat to win in November and she is mathematically eliminated from getting the nomination.

At this point, she isn't playing for 2008 anymore... she is playing for 2012.

[WillyT]

58. And If THAT Is Proven To Be The Case...

She might as well drop out of the 2012 race now while she's at it.

NO WAY she gets the nomination then. if she screws us over this time around.

:shrug:

[Milo_Bloom]

94. She would make the argument that "she was right"

And by 2012 everyone will have forgotten she helped sink the ship.

The same way people today think Howard Dean's scream is what killed his candidacy and forget that the reason for the scream was a 3rd place finish in Iowa after spending almost all of his money there.

Or how about this... how many people in October of 2002 VOWED to NEVER EVER EVER AGAIN vote for one of those people who voted for the war and quickly jumped on the Kerry or Edwards wagon during the 2003 primary season?


The only thing people would remember of 2008 in 2012 is that we chose Obama over Clinton and if he loses, we would spend 4 years wondering, maybe we should have chosen Clinton.

[Bensthename]

13. Rush L's GOP crew would be sad not to be able to vote for Hillary any more.

[whatchamacallit]

14. Cuz she sucks?

:shrug:

[galactical]

17. I love it when...

people use phrases like "the voters need to be heard" when all evidence points to the fact Obama will hold onto the pledged delegate lead.

I think senator Clinton is only staying in because of the chance that she may overtake him in the popular vote and then attempt to use it as a talking point to steal the election with superdelegates.

If she really had character she'd drop out now and help Obama beat McCain.

[cliffordu]

25. Because she's a complete failure at running a campaign

that doesn't employ lies, slander, race baiting, the usual Republicant playbook.

Oh, yeah, and in THE REAL WORLD OF NUMBERS, you know, reality?? She cannot hope to win.

Screw a bunch of stuperdelegates, they go against the will of the voter, there will be blood in the streets.

Why am I even writing this?? She and her hubby have made themselves useless as tits on a boar to this country and they need to get the fuck out of the race. NOW!


edited for speling (sic)

[GoldieAZ49]

31. pledged delegates are not required to vote for Obama

same as the super delegates


blood on the streets? Threaten violence, yes, that will make us look like the 'peace' party...NOT

[jgraz]

39. The only "pledged" delegates who are breaking their pledge are Hillary's

See Iowa. When it finally came time to stand up and be counted, Obama gained 9 delegates and Hillary lost 1.

Maybe she should talk some more about how those shitty little states don't count for anything. :rofl:

[lark]

68. Uppity woman, how dare she?

Your hate is disgraceful.

[cliffordu]

76. It's got nothing to do with uppity women or hate, and everything

to do with integrity, honesty and core Democratic values, none of which those two seem to possess anymore. Maybe they never did. I voted for him twice and defended them both for almost 10 years. No more.

Just because she is negative, rigid, disingenuous, untruthful and willing to endorse a member of the Republican party to get the nomination doesn't mean she is an uppity woman. It means she is a snake. And disgraceful.

[dchill]

26. Maybe the answer here is in the value...

of the word "pledged." If it has no value, Hillary has a shot. If the will of the voters is as valuable as the pledge, then she should gracefully give up.

[cliffordu]

30. Ha! "It's about the pledged, stupid...."

:rofl:

[GoldieAZ49]

33. it is a myth, they can vote for whoever they want, read the link above

think electable

[cliffordu]

36. They can vote for whoever they want in Russia, too.

I guess if you're so obsessed with getting your "candidiate" elected you will revert to closed door "elections" that have nothing to do with democracy, be my guest, just don't do it here.

The will of the people ignored will result in riots in the streets. Bet on it.

[jgraz]

40. It's a ridiculous scenario.

Let's see. Dyed-in-the-wool Democrats -- many of them black and many of them up for election in November -- are going to take the nomination away from the first African-American to earn that spot and give it to the crazy white lady.

In what universe does that happen?

[GoldieAZ49]

44. We have a representative government

that is why we have delegates and do not go by the popular vote

[jgraz]

46. Again, outline a scenario where the Democratic delegates take the nomination away from Obama

How, exactly, do you see that happening?

[GoldieAZ49]

47. If the remaining primaries show Obama has lost a significant amount of support

and over the next 2+ months more damaging info comes out they could change their minds of who they think is electable.

While some may have already changed their mind after they say the Wright videos and the impact of his 20 year allegiance with this man, even if they don't believe he holds the same views. What has Ted and Caroline said about Wright? I haven't heard a word.

[cliffordu]

50. Well, yeah, you're right about one thing...

If the monkeys flying out of my butt take all the superdelegate votes and drop them into a volcano then Hillary can just lie about what they said.

WTF does Teddy and Caroline have to do with all this?? Pizza??

[GoldieAZ49]

52. Just curious

it was a turning point in his campaign

[cliffordu]

56. I thought stomping the crap out of the polls and winning by oh,

20 to 28 points in some races did that...I thought the Kennedy stuff was right after that.....

But it coulda been those flying monkeys.....

[GoldieAZ49]

59. nope, the Kennedy's came out right before Super Tuesday and had a huge impact

that was where it changed

[cliffordu]

63. So his popularity and all them votes were simply due to the Kennedy

endorsements and NOT due to pizza or the monkeys flying out of my butt.

Interesting.

I thought it was because he was a superior candidate in every way.

[jgraz]

61. So, in other words, you're counting on a virulent racist backlash to save your candidate

Nice plan, that. :puke:

[lark]

73. OK to ignore people if they don't vote "right"?

Like it's OK to ignore the will of the people of FL and MI because we didn't have the sense to vote they way you wanted? You think that will make us want to vote for him in Nov? Better think again.

Do you remember the election of 2000? Dems sat on their hands and did nothing when blatant political stealing of our country was rubbed in their face. That was true evil and no one did anything. What's happening now is std. political bs, and is nothing, I repeat nothing, compared to what will happen to the Dem candidate during the GE. That tape of Wright will be played over and over. Obama has already lost the country thru his racist hate filled associations, continued even during his speech. Worse, millstone Wright is still on his campaign, despite all claims to the contrary. Sorry this old Southern white woman strongly denies that it's "typical" for a woman to be afraid to be on the same street as blacks.

[cliffordu]

92. OK, Let's review: Three bogus arguments

ONE:
Obama has NOTHING to do with Fla or Mi voting. The DNC has been painted into a corner by idiots at the state level WHO WERE WARNED if they moved their primaries there would be consequences.

SO: pay the consequences and next time, change the procedures to your liking.


TWO:
Stop blending the argument that his racist preacher will kill his GE chances.

If that were close to true he'd be down 40 points in the polls now, not reclaiming the lead over Hillary.
You might want to provide a link or to to your bogus posit, there.

THREE:
I wonder about your claim about being a typical white woman not afraid bla bla bla...

Seems awful convienient third argument to toss, from here

Kitchen sink indeed.

[dchill]

42. Think about losing.

It's the right thing to do.

[stray cat]

34. I just think Bill and Hillary should stop with the McCain endorsements

They both seem to be like Lieberman and Zell Miller and I'm waiting to see if they speak at the republican convention along with Lieberman.

[Skip Intro]

37. Obama supporters seem to fear our Democratic process.

They want to call the race before we have a winner.

They seem to be all for the system when it tells Michigan and Florida Dems they do not matter, yet recoil at the idea of letting that same process play out.

Do they want a coronation or a democratic contest?

You gotta wonder sometimes.

[jgraz]

43. Obama supporters seem to *understand* our Democratic process

You know, the process where the candidate with the insurmountable lead tends to win 100% of the time?

The burden of proof is on the Clintonites to provide a reasonable scenario where she can win the nomination. No vague handwaving about superdelegates and process. Get specific and show us how she wins this thing.

If you can't do that, then why the hell are you still pushing this dead horse of a candidate?

[Skip Intro]

51. When one of them reaches the required number of delegates, then that one wins.

Hillary, nor her supporters, need to bow to demands to justify her presence in the race. She has every right to run and I have every right to back her. The process has not played out. Neither candidate will have the winning number of delegates in pledged dels alone, the supers will decide.

To demand that one who has broken no rules step aside before the race has been decided does not smack of democracy to me.

Why do you fear our own process?

[jgraz]

55. Like I said, we *understand* the Democratic process

You cannot provide a single scenario where Hillary wins the nomination. How does she pull in over 70% of the remaining supers? How does that happen?

In order to be a viable candidate, Hillary has to have a reasonable path to the nomination. Name one other election where the losing candidate refused to concede before every single vote was tallied. Name one.

[Skip Intro]

65. Close race, a lot can happen between now and the convention.

As the last two weeks have shown.

Then you have MI and FL still out there. Is the party really just going to tell them to fuck off?

Do you not want all the votes counted?

I understand that interferes with the sunshine daydreams of the Obama flock. However, there is a system in place to determine the winner. And that process - our process - is underway, but not yet completed. Personally, I would not mind seeing this go to the convention.

[jgraz]

67. That's not a scenario, that's spin and fantasy.

Post a real scenario or dry the hell up.

I'll go first:

Obama wins the pledged delegates. (foregone conclusion at this point)

Obama wins the popular vote. (also a foregone conclusion at this point)

FL and MI are not counted. (Also a foregone conclusion. But even if they somehow are counted, Obama still wins delegates and popular vote.)

Fewer than 70% of the remaining superdelegates decide that it's somehow a good idea to take the Democratic nomination away from a black candidate and give it to a white candidate.

Nomination: Obama.

Q.E.D.


Your turn.

[Skip Intro]

72. Hey buddy, do you really expect me to ask how high when you say jump?

Who the hell are you to issue demands to me?

The arrogance is the one common denominator for Obama supporters, it would seem.

I have stated my views, and frankly, find a few flaws with yours.

The popular vote is not a foregone conclusion. Especially if MI and FL are counted. If they are not, we are looking at a November disaster for sure, but that will be about the size of it anyway if the chosen one is the nom.

And then you want to play the race card??? What bullshit.

Maybe you should step outside the Obamasphere for a few.

[jgraz]

74. No, I expect you to do just what you're doing

Feign outrage so you don't have to let go of your fantasy binky.

[cliffordu]

80. LOL!! Fantasy binkey!!!

I'm stealing that...

:rofl:

[Skip Intro]

115. No prob sunshine, right back atcha. One suggetstion,

try to find yourself a mirror in your offtime.


:toast:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

82. What Does Color Have To Do With Anything?

The Super Delegates need to do what is in the best interest of the Democratic party and the country which I hope is synonomous...

Nobody is suggesting it's not a long shot for HRC to win but if there were new primaries in MI and FL Hillary could conceivably take the popular lead and close the pledged delegate lead to less than eighty delegates or so... This would give the Super Delegates much to think about...

Now, if the DNC gives FL and MI the back of their hand and don't count their votes they play into the RNC's hand by putting those states in McCain's column... It also means if McCain doesn't have to spend a lot of time and money to secure FL and MI he can spend that money and time elsewhere...

Sounds like a recipe for disaster...

[jgraz]

86. HAHAHAHAH!!! Sorry, gimme a minute here

You're currently backing a candidate who practically needs to foment a fucking RACE WAR in order to win the nomination and you're asking what COLOR has to do with anything???

Thanks, I needed a good laugh this morning.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

87. I'm Color Blind...I Expect My Leaders To Be As Well

~

[jgraz]

89. The operative word in "Color Blind" is "Blind".

Racism is still a problem in this country, and the only people I know who say they are "color blind" are people who want to deny it exists.

Or deny that their candidate is using it to steal an election.

[cliffordu]

53. (Place the whipping dead horse gif here)

[lark]

75. What do Obama supporters want?

Deification, nothing less will do. LOL

[okasha]

98. And threaten violence if the process

doesn't go their way.

[GoldieAZ49]

101. so much for 'peace' & 'democracy'

[okasha]

104. Yep.

This isn't the only threat to disrupt the convention we've seen. There have also been threats on Hillary's life from posters here that were allowed to stand for hours before they were removed. Why the posters haven't also been removed escapes me.

[TheWraith]

38. This is nothing but the same discredited bullshit as ever before.

For starters, your last point: the superdelegates are NOT going to overturn the election. That is the statement of the highest elected Democrat in the land, Speaker Pelosi.

And dropping out because you've lost doesn't "disenfranchise" the states that haven't voted any more than I was "disenfranchised" by the fact that New York was irrelevant in 2004. It means one thing and one thing only--that you've lost your chance of winning, which Hillary has. The ridiculous spin about how she can still win is just that: spin.

[KingFlorez]

48. I agree

At this point, I think the primary process should continue until all contests have been completed. For once, we have a race where a lot of states count and that is a good thing for democracy.

[GoldieAZ49]

49. It is the first time the final states in the primary process actually have a choice

every vote should count

[indimuse]

62. K&R

4 Democracy! Alot of Barack's supporters only believe in ego. NOT truth..Nor are they curious! They are lil' lemmings...like bush followers...only this time the liability is not a "TYPICAL WHITE"....well, neither was bush...

[Orsino]

70. Too simply put, in fact.

Fear of the rather unlikely event of a mass delegate defection is not the entire story.

There's also the fear of the damage each candidate is doing the other, and the fear that McCain, meanwhile, is skating. There's also the fear that a lot of money and effort will (in effect) be wasted on the somewhat remote possibility of Clinton's nomination. Her aggression, whether praiseworthy or not, could be needed against McCain.

Neither Kucinich nor Edwards stayed in the race, hoping that hundreds of delegates might eventually change their minds. Clinton's standing is much better, though Obama's lead is looking nearly insurmountable.

There are a lot of reasons, therefore, to suggest that Clinton should drop out, and it's wrong to imply that they are all based in fear of Clinton's qualifications. There are also reason for her to stay in, I'll certainly agree, and only some of those are horrifying.

If she's hoping for a miraculous sweep of delegates, and you want her to remain in the race, please help her to show some progressive leadership to win more support, rather than simply playing gotcha. This is the only good reason for further competition IMO, and neither candidate, unfortunately, is breaking away in this manner.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

78. Onward to Denver

[jgraz]

81. Good edit, there

Nice to see you're developing a minimal sense of propriety. :toast:

[TacticalPeek]

79. Because it is vital to Obama's nomination strategery.

Simple really.

K&R

:kick:

[defendandprotect]

88. I'm not a HRC fan . . . however, I think HRC will know when and if it's time to go ---

leaving prematurely would be a mistake and only create more hard feelings between the HRC and Obama camps which we don't need ---

Also -- I think anyone in the HRC or Obama camps who tried to hasten the departures of Kucinich or
Edwards should now understand that the shoe is now on the other foot --- and that it didn't benefit
debates nor discussions when we suffered those liberal departures ---

The desire to get things tied up with a bow can sometimes backfire.

[loveangelc]

93. It would be okay if she wasn't doing so much mudslinging

but she has proven she will do anything...ANYTHING...to win. I don't think this is about the country anymore, its about her own ambition and her and her husband's legacy. She knows she has a 10% chance at best of beating Obama in the nomination as her advisors even say. But that doesn't stop her from throwing the BS around, and it doesn't stop her supporters either. It doesn't stop her from dragging the Democrats through a long fight while helping mccain, knowing she has no chance.

She cannot take the fact that she and her husband may not be seen as the Democratic party saviors anymore. They cannot take the fact that someone else is coming up and their time is coming to an end. Her supporters possibly cannot either. Many are stuck in the are stuck in the 90's. The fact is that I think most people want to move on from the 90s, as good as they may have been.

I use to have respect for her. I defended her all the time. Before Obama, I wanted her to become President. Even when Obama ran, I would have been happy with either, at first. That's definitely gone out the window.

If she had any respect for herself she would drop out gracefully and save her and her husband's legacy. They could have had a reasonably good legacy. After she loses, she and her husband will go down in history very differently imo.

[baldguy]

95. Why should she drop out? Because she can't win.

In a McCain vs Clinton election, the voters have a choice between the real GOP and GOP-lite. It'll be close but McCain wins & we have at least 4 more disastrous years of GOP rule.

If its McCain vs Obama, McCain looks old, senile & weak. Obama looks young, smart, dynamic & ALIVE. Obama wins by a landslide.

[RiverStone]

96. This makes so much sense!

Hillary = exclusive and polarizing

Obama = inclusive and unifying

It's as simple as that.

peace~:)

[The River]

99. Seems The Hillerites

are past the "denial" stage of grieving
and have moved on to "bargaining".
"We must follow the rules" (even though
it's mathematically impossible).
"Every vote must be counted" (see math).
"It will be the last few primaries that decide everything."
(see math again)

Cue Roy Orbison

"It's over, it's over...It's O...VER."

[GoldieAZ49]

100. nothing is over until the delegates vote

and the pledged delegates can vote any way they want.

[mikekohr]

102. Riots Will Occur In Denver If Clinton Weasels Her Way To the Nomination

If Senator Clinton wins this fair and square (mathematically improbable) we move on united to victory in November. If she takes the low road to the nomination, expect this action to tear our party apart and put McCain in the White House.

mike kohr

[GoldieAZ49]

105. Bring it on

If dems are going to insist on party leaders nominating and unelectable candidate they deserve it.

[earthlover]

107. Hillary nominated by a divided party with riots in the streets is UNELECTABLE...bring it on?

I guess you really are for Hillary at any costs....

[GoldieAZ49]

110. making threats of violence is trying to win at any cost

either way, dems lose.

[earthlover]

117. I didn't see any threats....rather, realistic assessment of risks

Who was it who looked at this possibility and said "bring it on!"....oh it was you!! THAT was closer to a threat than what you describe. Projection working for you?

[DemVet]

113. Ridiculous. n/t

[Cleita]

106. Any way you look at it she's losing.

Most candidates would have dropped out by now. I personally am comfortable with Obama going up against McCain. That's when the real mudslinging begins and I believe Obama is more up to the challenge than Hillary and he has less baggage to defend.

[WonderGrunion]

108. You're absolutely right

So Biden, Dodd, and Richardson should resume their campaigns immediately, after all experience is the most important issue, and all three are more experienced than Clinton

[Dinger]

111. Thoughtful Post. Thank You

:patriot:

[hayu_lol]

112. Food for thought...

Our nominee will ultimately face a serious lack of caucuses in the GE. What effect might that have on the outcome?

[earthlover]

118. Our nominee will also see a serious lack of PRIMARIES in the general election!

your post was goofy! Duh! Of course there are no caucuses in November!

Your implication is that caucuses don't count. At least the ones Hillary does not win. You seem to be hesitant to point out that Obama has won more PRIMARIES too!

Hey...do you think the General Election will only let the big states count?

[Dinger]

119. Obama Will Not Have A Smooth Ride In The GE IF He Is The Nominee

You imply that he will.

[Butch350]

114. Why should Hillary get...

Out?

So she won't have to fall on her sword!

[Splinter Cell]

116. She is a crappy candidate.

It's that simple. Obama is exciting people. Hillary can't, and so she has run the most disgusting democratic primary possible, just to get her way.

I don't understand what you people see in her. It's amazing, that we have such a great candidate (Obama), yet we have to drag some people kicking and screaming to get them to understand that.