Two who started the Florida Fiasco call on others to fix it.

[madfloridian]

State Sens. Jeremy Ring, D-Fort Lauderdale, left and Steven Geller, D-Hallandale call on the Democratic candidates to resolve the primary issue at a press conference on Wednesday March 19, 2008 in Tallahassee, Fla. (AP Photo/Steve Cannon

Steve Geller...sound familiar? He is the Florida senate minority leader who didn't want to be thrown into the bramble bush.

You Tube video..
We really really do want that amendment

Jeremy Ring? Well, he is the one who started it all by introducing the primary bill.

The instigator who became a victim

Top Democrat's are not taking this lying down however. State Senator Jeremy Ring, a Broward County Democrat who joined Republicans in pushing for a January 29th primary date has withdrawn his endorsement of Senator Barack Obama. Senate Democratic Leader Steve Geller says, "Any candidate that boycotts Florida and thinks that they will raise money here will be sadly disappointed" and top Democratic fund raiser prominent Jacksonville trial lawyer Wayne Hogan phoned Howard Dean last week to cancel a DNC fund raiser.

Jeremy and Steve, time to give it up for the sake of the other 48 states.

[Hugabear]

1. Thanks for that

There are so many people who think that the primary fiasco was solely the result of Charlie Crist and rethugs in the legislature. What they always fail to add is that our state Democrats were wholeheartedly behind the move as well, because they wanted to have a bigger say in selecting the nominee.

[napi21]

2. Well, taht worked out real well didn't it? You DO realize, if they

had left the original Primary date as scheduled, FLORIDA REALLY WOULD HAVE MATTERED! It seems to me that they threw their weight around and fell smack on their a**!

[madfloridian]

6. Steve Geller in the news again. Someone needs to talk with him...

http://www.wjhg.com/news/headlines/16759106.html

"Frustration is the word that best describes Senate Democratic Leader
Steve Geller’s mood.

“One of the things I think we’re very close to doing, that I’m very close to doing, is to call upon all donors to the DNC to completely cut off all their donations, to redirect it to the state party instead.”

While Democrats worry, Republicans continue to push the idea of seating
all of the delegates, knowing full well the turmoil helps their party in the end."

Actually the fundraisers from FL have nearly cut off the flow of dollars from this state

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

18. Idiot Geller was on FAUX news today

disgusting. He was blaming the DNC and Howard Dean.

IF only we could get the video and your articles on this to MSM.

MadFloridian, how about submitting a piece on this (you probably have some already)
to www.OpEdNews.com exposing the truth about the Florida primary move?

PM me if you need to.

[madfloridian]

19. They are all over the TV here doing that.

You should post it there.

[slinkerwink]

9. exactly. The state democrats are to blame for ignoring the DNC rules.

[madfloridian]

21. Yep.

But they are on TV blaming everyone but themselves. People here are falling for it.

[redqueen]

23. I wonder if they're really falling for it...

I think they must be smarter than that.

[Skarbrowe]

3. I'm one of those Florida voters who lost their vote and I've come

to the conclusion that this state should simply not exist for Election 2008. I did know that Democrats went along with the Republican legislature. I don't know the whole story and I failed to realize it's significance in time, like the rest of the voters in this very odd state. Although I don't think all voters who would have voted Democrat will stay home or stupidly vote McCain in the fall, there might be a high enough percentage to help hand it to McCain. The rest of the country, the top Democrats who weren't behind this and knew it was going to be a disaster and all the voters who didn't know they COULD protest this, are simply going to have to pay the cost. And that cost might be another Republican President, when the Democrats should have had a walk in the park right up to the steps of the White House. Geez, look at those two guys.

But, it is extremely heartbreaking that other Democrats have used this nutjob situation to their advantage- to make sure their candidate wins - that they have horribly maligned people who have spoken about the pain of losing their votes. Amazing job. Nothing like the smell of crumbling, burning party unity every damn day.

I will vote against a dangerous Republican party in the fall. But I will never, ever look at the Democratic party the same way again.

[madfloridian]

4. My heart is broken over this...locals are so divided.

Because the media will not tell the truth.

Howard Dean survived the onslaught in 04, media and party...and he went on to try to make a difference as chairman.

But the media and the insiders of the party will not let it happen. This episode carried out by my state will most likely destroy his reputation, all because they had to be first.

I have lost friends in the DFA and DEC because of it.

If nothing else the Florida Democrats have stirred up anger that will not be able to be overcome here.

How tragic. Those whose votes will count in the general election might sit out and not vote.

[madfloridian]

5. On CNN just now...a guy said the Dems who went along

need to accept responsibility. He said rules were needed, and that the states who broke the rules should take responsibility.

The others were nodding their heads.

He also agreed with me that they should have seats at the convention, but they should not have the Jan. 29 primary counted.

I actually heard that on TV.

[Skarbrowe]

7. If they are not going to count the voters, I think they shouldn't

count anything in the state. It should be total and complete punishment to be fair. Both Michigan and Florida did break the rules possibly causing Hillary the Presidency, possibly not. I accept that Obama caught fire and has solid ground to stand on for the nomination. Now that we know, even though Hillary has not gotten out yet, now that we know that unless something terrible comes out about Obama, that HE IS going to be the nominee, we know he doesn't need Florida or Michigan. The DNC or the Florida and Michigan leaders who caused this can't have it both ways because they need these states in the GE. The two states were told their delegates would not be seated but they held primaries anyway. So, a bunch of us silly voters went out to vote. If they are not going to count our votes, as in the popular vote totals, they should NOT seat any delegates. IMO, that is the only thing that is fair.

I know the DNC will want to make nice, the FL and MI Democratic leaders who f'd this up will want to make nice so they can get voters out in November. Uh, that ship has sailed. Don't seat anyone from these states and let the voters make up their minds what they want to do in November. I have some, a little, a smidge of hope that Democrats in Florida will come out against McCain when the time comes. Leave it to them. They were left out in the primaries. Now leave out out the delegates also. Let the voters do their thing come fall.

[madfloridian]

8. Superdelegates from FL should not count.

They knew what they were doing.

[MonkeyFunk]

10. sigh

Are we going to see this nonsense every day?

It doesn't matter WHO started it - it has to be resolved!! Pointing fingers now is just an exercise is stupidity.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

14. Actually it does matter who started it if one is to understand the issue.

I'm all for fixing things in MI and FL but not at the cost of sweeping facts down the memory hole.

[Skarbrowe]

15. It was resolved. They were stripped of their delegates the day

they chose to put their primaries before Feb.5th. Hey, it doesn't make me happy. I wanted a re-vote for a time. I was really angry that my vote didn't count again in Florida. Then I came to realize that if the rule was that the delegates should not be seated if the rules were broken, that it was the right thing to do to not seat them. If we do this, well, give them half of this imaginary count or just seat something so we don't make two important states angry in the fall, well, sorry, that simply doesn't seem fair.

Again, I was recently on the other side of this thinking FI and MI should do a re-vote of some kind. Then when I saw how inept everyone appeared to be in making this happen, I realized it would be much, much better to stick with what the rules were when FI and MI broke them. Like I said, I really don't know who is to blame for what happened. I still don't understand everything that went on in Florida and I have no idea what happened in Michigan.

I do remember talking to other voters and some being aware that the delegates were not going to be seated, but I don't think we knew that our votes wouldn't be counted in the total vote count. Yes, we were pretty stupid on that one. This was a first and most voters in this state had problems wrapping their minds around it.

No more blame. It's been done and the punishment should stand. IMO heh

[burythehatchet]

11. Do we know who they support for the nomination, besides Muckain.

[madfloridian]

12. Don't know.

I know Ring "unendorsed" Obama because he would not campaign here.

Don't know about Geller.

[madfloridian]

13. Geller's explanation for his attitude:

"DNC members questioned whether the amendments were even serious; Sen. Steve Geller, D-Hallandale, laughed when he introduced his, they noted.

But Geller said that was only because everyone in the chamber knew it would fail"

Yeh, right.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/mar/23/me-primary-predicaments/

[SoCalDem]

16. Here are a few pieces of their "cute" merchandise

:grr:

and now they want to play the helpless victims..:grr:

They LOVED the whole deal.. they wanted to show who was boss..

http://www.democraticwarrior.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28423

[madfloridian]

17. Tavis Smiley to Karen Thurman..."you guys created this mess yourself."

Video of Smiley and Thurman.

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v6447385y9C3c2Ks

And Karen says not true, talks about Geller's amendment...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpHuQi17EaE

You know the "we really really want this."

Karen mentions Gelber in the House, whose amendment got laughed at...

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

Karen, be honest so we can all move ahead.

[madfloridian]

20. From a FL blogger.....again pushing the meme that the DNC broke the rules.

No, they did not break the rules. I have some gripes with Florida bloggers who have good access to Florida Democrats and divide the party like this.

http://quinnell.us/sspb/?p=1474

"Florida broke the rules and the DNC just enforced them: Florida did break the rules. So did the DNC. DNC rules specify that people who break this rule lose half their delegates, not all of them. Additionally, South Carolina moved their election ahead of DNC-stated guidelines in response to Florida and received no penalty, which violates the rules as well."

Not true. I posted this in my journal today straight from the transcripts of the DNC.

Florida KNEW they could lose ALL their delegates if they voted yes to move the primary.

Under the DNC delegate selection rules, if a state party’s plan violates the rule with respect to timing, the number of its pledged delegates—those delegates awarded proportionally to candidates based on the primary or caucus results—is automatically reduced 50%(without any action by the RBC or DNC); no member of the DNC can attend the Convention as a delegate; no Member of Congress can attend the Convention as a delegate; and if applicable, the state’s Democratic governor can not attend the Convention as a delegate. In addition, any presidential candidate who campaigns in the state for the event in violation of the rules cannot receive any pledged delegates from that state. In addition to these automatic sanctions, the DNC the RBC has authority under the rules to impose additional sanctions, including further reductions in the state’s delegation.

At its meeting on August 25, 2007, the DNC RBC found Florida’s plan in noncompliance with the DNC rules, and voted to increase the sanctions against Florida by reducing the state’s delegation by 100% unless the state party, within the 30-day period allowed by the Committee’s regulations, submitted a plan for an alternative, state party-run process on or after February 5 that would be used to allocate delegate positions.

Florida had 30 days to work out something so that 100% of their delegates would not be stripped. They did not do it.

Also, Ken, the other states moved ahead AFTER they were leapfrogged by FL and MI....they did it with the permission of the DNC.

It infuriates me to hear all the bloggers from Florida, the Florida leaders, and Karen Thurman keep repeating these things.

[madfloridian]

22. Florida did not act "in good faith".

http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v001/democratic1.download.akamai.com/8082/pdfs/20051210_commissiontranscript.pdf

In the event a state shall become subject to subsections (1), (2) or (3) of section C. of this rule as a result of state law but the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee, after an investigation, including hearings if necessary, determines the state party and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith to achieve legislative changes to bring the state law into compliance with the pertinent provisions of these rules and determines that the state party and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith in attempting to prevent legislative changes which resulted in state law that fails to comply with the pertinent provisions of these rules, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee may determine that all or a portion of the state’s delegation shall not be reduced. The state party shall have the burden of proving by clear and convincing evidence that it and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith to achieve legislative changes...."

[riskpeace]

24. You are persistent

and consistent. Yet another post without the link between the primary move and the verified voting components of the bill.

It seems to me you are more interested in placing blame than in finding a solution that does not lead to a loss of Florida and Michigan in November. That's the real goal, not some effort to make Governor Dean look like he had no role in this fiasco.

[madfloridian]

26. That is a red herring...it is all you mention. Nothing else matters to you.

It was something tacked on by agreement of both so it would "look" okay. You have fallen hook line and sinker.

[riskpeace]

27. You are incorrect that I do not mention anything else.

I've been pretty consistent about being annoyed that the party that I have contributed to and worked for is now disenfranchising me.

I've also been very consistent that I think it is completely stupid to disenfranchise your base in two key swing states and to expect there will be no effect on the general election vote.

I've made the observation that the RNC found a way to punish the state party without punishing the voters and their base.

I've shared the opinion that the RNC and the Republican Party of Florida have completely played the DNC for another election cycle.

I've also pointed out the irony that a registered Republican voter in a state with an open primary has more voice in this historic Democratic primary than this registered Democratic voter and contributor.

I've shared my frustration at having a Republican representative and people telling me that it's my fault because I voted for the legislators who moved the primary.

I have not fallen for anything hook, line and sinker. Politics is full of situations where two perspectives can have truth. I really do not give a hoot about who started what. I want my vote to count. And I want the Democratic nominee to win in November and I believe they need to win MI or FL to win the election.

At the same time, I agree that I have consistently wondered why you always leave out the link to the verified voting bill. You have been very vocal about the fault of the Florida Democratic legislators and their 111-1 vote and by extension Florida voters for supposedly voting for those legislators. But you left out a crucial piece of the story: the link to the verified voting bill.

[madfloridian]

28. Because they worked together to include it to give FL an escape hatch

.

[riskpeace]

29. Who are they?

I do not understand what you claiming?

Do you have a link for this claim?

[Life Long Dem]

25. Yeah, try to make sense of rules.

Some undisclosed Hillary voters use the reasoning that by going with the rules your disenfranchising the voters.
The whole country went by the rules (MI, FL, exception) are they disenfranchised? NOT!

And if they do break the rules, they'll be doing the same thing year after year.