Hypocritcal Obama campaign's latest smear of President Clinton

[jackson_dem]

As an "unidentified high-ranking" former official in the Edwards campaign (believed to be Joe Trippi) put it, only 0bama is allowed by the msm to consistently be so blatantly hypocritical and never be called on it.

Once again 0bama is smearing Bill Clinton to score cheap political points in direct contradiction with his public rhetoric. This is the latest instance of Obama saying one thing, doing another.


-snip-

`It sounds more like McCarthy,'' retired four-star General Merrill ``Tony'' McPeak, who also is a campaign co-chair, said after a rally today in Salem, Oregon. McCarthy, a former Republican senator from Wisconsin, was known for his extreme anti-communist suspicion amid Cold War tensions in the 1950s.

-snip-

``People could actually ask themselves who is right on these issues, instead of all this other stuff that always seems to intrude itself on our politics,'' he said.

-snip-

``We respect General McPeak's service, but he is clearly misinterpreting what President Clinton said, and some might even say he is intentionally doing so to help the Obama campaign's desperate effort to divert attention away from its recent political troubles,'' Singer said.

Clinton's campaign released a statement on its Web site, saying the former president wasn't questioning Obama's patriotism: ``President Clinton was talking about the need to talk about issues, rather than falsely questioning any candidate's patriotism.''

http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080322/pl_bloomberg/asnmt2zmnztc

[LittleClarkie]

1. Reading Clinton's comment, I would like to know what he really meant then

if it wasn't what seemed to be implied.

[jackson_dem]

4. What is there to mean? He was talking about two candidates

If he said they both liked coffee does that somehow mean Obama doesn't?

[LittleClarkie]

9. It does rather imply it, yes. It would be nice to have two patriotic candidates implies the one left

isn't.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

15. a man hears only what he wants to hear

[LittleClarkie]

30. What does a woman hear

I have magguppies.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

37. it is meant to be A-gender.....ask Art & Paul

[ClassWarrior]

50. LET IT SINK.

(But don't let the maguppies sink, LC :rofl:)

NGU.

[rodeodance]

52. Too bad all the obamafolk are not sheepie.

[Ravy]

67. kick for LET IT SINK! nt

[jackson_dem]

18. "Hillary and McCain would be both candidates who like coffee."

What does that imply?

No one would even know about his remark except for those in the audience of the hypocritical 0bama campaign didn't smear Bill over it for the millionth time. Why can't Obama practice what he preaches? Liar or fraud?

[buff2]

40. BOTH!

:thumbsup:

[polmaven]

61. He was talking about

The General Election! What I heard in "all that other stuff", was all the crap that GW and Rove, and the ilk of those ...(I'm trying to think of an appropriate word here...nope...it's Easter weekend...can't say it.....) ummmm "types" throw in".

He was, of course, putting Hillary into the GE. I would be shocked if he didn't!

[bigtree]

13. Fact Check: What Bill Clinton (Really) Said In Charlotte

Some are suggesting that the following remark by President Clinton was intended as a personal attack:

I think it would be a great thing if we had an election year where you had two people who loved this country and were devoted to the interest of this country and people could actually ask themselves who is right on these issues, instead of all this other stuff that always seems to intrude itself on our politics.

Actually, as is indicated by the quote itself, President Clinton was talking about the need to talk about issues, rather than falsely questioning any candidate's patriotism.

He was lamenting that these kind of distractions "always seems to intrude" on political campaigns. This is consistent with his criticism of the "politics of personal destruction," which dates back 16 years.

http://facts.hillaryhub.com/

3/21/2008 5:07:42 PM #

[Drachasor]

58. That's blatant misrepresentation! Here's a clip of what he said, and he was talking about the GE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlu7wjPEK4k&feature=related

It includes both before and after, and the entire comment is part of an argument for voting for Hillary instead of Obama. His comment is about the the general election. It directly implies that Obama vs. McCain would not be between two people who love this country and are devoted to the interest of this country.

His statement is completely outrageous.

[XemaSab]

59. Thanks for the video

:(

[gulliver]

64. "directly implies?"

I agree with you that it is possible to hear the implication you are talking about. But another explanation is just as good. And that makes the accusation of Clinton unfair at best, unethical at worst.

Clinton is making an "argument for Hillary," not an argument against Obama. When Clinton talks about not having "all this other stuff" he is not implying all that other stuff is Obama. He is talking about the last GEs having all the nastiness they had. Clinton has also just said that Hillary and McCain are good friends, so his comment is trying to minimize the "negative connotation" of that among Democrats. As in, "I know you are thinking that having Hillary up against McCain and them getting along might be a bad thing, but I think it would be a good thing..."

It is naive at best to think that Clinton thinks or talks in terms of people loving their country or devoted to the country or whatever. I assume he considers them a given. He is a highly intelligent, mature man, not a third grader.

Clinton has been falsely accused here. It is very similar to Obama's "typical white woman" comment.

[Drachasor]

71. Your right, Clinton must be referring to some other Front Runner, and he can't be referring to Obama

Come on, how could he somehow not be contrasting Hillary with the front runner by that remark? Who is he drawing a comparison with, figments of his imagination that are not going to be in he GE?

[Igel]

72. It depends entirely on how you want to interpret it.

What he's talking about. If he's talking about Obama and there's a contrast that he wants to make, he's dissing Obama.

If he's *not* talking about Obama per se, but how nice it would be to dispense with the "politics of personal destruction"--you know, the stuff that's thrown at Obama, as well as Clinton and often McCain--then we can talk about issues. But we never seem to talk about issues.

How you want to interpret it largely depends on (a) your focus, whether or not you can entertain a POV separate from your own, and (b) your level of good will, i.e., the likelihood that another's POV isn't entended to be bad or deceitful.

As you say, "how could he somehow not be contrasting Hillary with the front runner...?" The fact is, he might not be.

Notice a little datum from another part of language, from some language experiments. If you tell somebody to pick up the glass cup or the rough cup when there's only one glass or rough cup in a set of cups, or even just a couple of cups in a set of cups and plates, they perceive a contrast within a fraction of a second. They will use that contrast to start moving their eyes and planning their movements before you say the word "cup": "cup" is an unnecessary word. The contrast is derived mid-stream and is sufficient: you hear "rough" and you know there's only one rough thing. If you say large cup and there are four cups, there's a delay: They look back and forth between the largest cup and the other cups to verify that they've IDed the right cup.

But let's say there's a red cup, and only one red cup--the others are all white or a mix of colors--the average listener will wait until they hear the word "cup". "Red cup" is the unit of language they use; they don't focus on the contrast when they could have, whatever logic might say. They simply interpret the word "red" as a description of the cup, figuring out the contrast after hearing "red cup". You'd think that the contrast, which is there in terms of logic, would be used by listeners. You'd be wrong. Stress the word and you get a contrast, otherwise color adjectives are assumed to be redundant until late in the sentence. Texture and materials aren't redundant; they're always interpreted as implying a contrast. One consequence is that you're unlikely to spontaneously identify the *only* cup as being made of glass or plastic, or describe it as rough or smooth, but if the only cup on the counter is green you may still say, "Hand me the green cup, would you?"

One could ask, "How is it that a speaker could refer to a cup's being a certain color without implying a contrast with another cup?" The answer isn't simple, because we don't know. On the other hand, the answer is also fairly clear: The speaker does, whatever we might suppose.

"... How could he somehow not be contrasting Hillary with the front runner...?" The fact is, he might not be. He doesn't use color or texture terms, so the answer is less cut-and-dried. But he might be, nonetheless, depending on his focus and POV. The focus seems to be on 'other stuff'. I don't think he was dehumanizing Obama; I think he was, however difficult it may be for some to believe, simply disregarding him. Now, I could be wrong. But it costs me nothing to assume that BC's simply not speaking with Obama in mind, since he's not in the discourse; and requires ill will or a funny kind of POV-centrism for me to assume that BO is always present in BC's discourse.

[roguevalley]

74. The first two sentences of the OP were so disgusting and so hateful,

I didn't bother to read the rest. I suppose it is about his remarks about the superior patriotism of him and others and not someone else that we all have heard about. Or maybe he's done some other damned thing. God, will this primary ever get over?

[Danieljay]

2. Bill and Hillary are doing a pretty good job at smearing themselves, thank you. n/t

[Moochy]

3. Oh They Just Misunderestimated What He Meant!

Smear, Lie, Bite Lip, Point Clap Clap.

[BeyondGeography]

22. Amazing how she manages to look at least slightly deranged in 9 out of every 10 photos

This one, more than slightly.

[jackson_dem]

25. Yes, all women must look great and at all times to get somewhere in society

How progressive of you. :sarcasm:

[Moochy]

26. Hey the Victim Model Right here in my own Subthread

Thanks!

[rodeodance]

5. REC

[spotbird]

6. Vote for Hillary, she's the victim. nt

[rodeodance]

7. Do you have anything constructive to comment on?

[jackson_dem]

10. Why can't Obama practice what he preaches?

Is he a pathological liar or just a fraud?

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moochy]

14. Leave it to OP to employ "hobsons choice"

"Is the OP a liar or a fraud" might be a more valid question.

Just like their pitch for HRC: many options, same choice.
Which Candidate would you the voter like, the experience establishment candidate in HRC or the change candidate in HRC?

Also available in sexism victim model too!! (see post #25 above http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5210747&mesg_id=5210991 )

[buff2]

42. He's both

Don't worry. He will never be our President. The smart people with common sense won't let it happen. :hi:

[golddigger]

45. I would say both....nt

[JoFerret]

21. Spread the hope

not the hype.

[buff2]

46. Spread the truth

not the bullshit.

[totodeinhere]

66. Yes, she sure has played the victim card.

But obviously it hasn't worked since she is losing. Maybe when she runs again in 2012 she will have learned her lesson.

[ProSense]

8. Here's the video of Bill's remarks:

Bill Clinton's offensive patriotism remarks

Note the praise of McCain.

Also, why is Phil Singer still misrepresenting Jeremy Wright's comments?

[cali]

11. tough shit.

bill should phrase things a little better and he wouldn't constantly be stepping in shit. This ain't beanbag, bot. And Obama fights back. The pathological label is just more of your ever bitterer broth.

[tokenlib]

16. Bill knew damn well what he was saying...his knowledge...

.. of how to use and twist words is better than almost any other politician in history. He knows the dictionary meanings and makes use of this knowledge to weasel meanings and interpretations that he can disavow if necessary.

This is no smear--Bill was slamming Obama as only Bill Clinton can--with plausible deniability...

He deserves to be called out.

[jackson_dem]

20. "Hillary and John are two folks who both like cofee."

Does that insinuate Obama doesn't?

[LittleClarkie]

34. It would be nice to have two candidates who like coffee. Since he's promoting one of them for prez

it implies that the one left out doesn't share the same values.


And who gives a flying fuck on a stick about coffee? Can we stick to the actual quote?

It wasn't that he said that they both love America. He said it would be nice to have two candidates who love America. Are you here to say that he meant Obama too?

[wileedog]

36. "HIllary and John are two folks in this election who both like coffee

That changes it a bit, no? When there is only 1 other person in the election?

[jackson_dem]

38. What relevance does he have? He was talking about Hill vs. McCain

Obama has nothing to do with it. If I am talking about the Duke vs. Belmont game do I have to mention UNC too?

[Moochy]

47. Sports Analogy!!

Bill talking about the matchup between Hillary and McCain is like the "finals of the presidential race.

This is like talking about the finals before the semi-finals are finished.

Oh and your team HRC is 13 pts behind with 3 seconds left.
And Coach Penn has placed their only hope in arguing with the refs, and appealing to the NCAA Rules Committee.
Coach has bet over 11 million dollars on this game.
Geraldine Ferraro has been forcibly taken off the court after attacking Obama's knee with a crowbar.

[juajen]

24. Or, he deserves to be called what he is, "brilliant".

Aren't we fools for attempting to throw away two of the best minds in this country. Don't even say "Obama" to me. He has many experiences and years to catch up on before he is even in the ballpark.

[tokenlib]

41. Sure he's brilliant....

He said he did not have relations with that woman--and by the dictionary definitions he was telling the truth.. But now his quote is held up by the majority of people as an example of telling lies.
For good or ill, perception is reality.

After his antics in this campaign--he has become too brilliant for his own good--and on the verge of being too brilliant to maintain a respected legacy.

[NashVegas]

57. What Does The Obama Campaign Have Against Patriotism?

"I think it would be a great thing if we had an election year where you had two people who loved this country and were devoted to the interest of this country," said Clinton, who was speaking to a group of veterans Friday in Charlotte, N.C.. "And people could actually ask themselves who is right on these issues, instead of all this other stuff that always seems to intrude itself on our politics."

Where's the offense? How is that a dis?

[XemaSab]

60. "I think it would be a great thing"

implies that it MIGHT NOT HAPPEN.

Maybe we won't have two candidates who love America. And since he already said McCain loves America, we know he's not talking about the Republican.

[Why Syzygy]

17. No proof. Your post has no point whatsoever. Obama smears Clinton. What denial.

[Vinca]

19. Anyone with a passing knowledge of the English language

could understand Bill Clinton's comment and it was more of praising McCain while implying something negative about Obama. The really funny thing is, Bill Clinton was in the same spot as Obama back in 1992. He had the draft dodger scandal and the bimbo eruptions to contend with. I don't recall other Democrats piling on and speaking in favor of Poppy Bush.

[jackson_dem]

23. What does Obama have to do with saying Hill vs. McCain would be about the issues?

[juajen]

29. Your memory is faulty. There was much piling on from both sides.

Thankfully, common sense prevailed, and he was elected, and the US had eight of the most peaceful and prosperous years in its history. God, I can't wait.

[VolcanoJen]

27. Stephanapolous, 1992: Bush Campaign Resorting to "McCarthyism Of The Purest Form"

Oh, and

Bill Clinton said in a debate, “But when Joe McCarthy went around this country attacking people’s patriotism, he was wrong. He was wrong. And a Senator from Connecticut stood up to him named Prescott Bush. Your father was right to stand up to Joe McCarthy. You were wrong to attack my patriotism. I was opposed to the war but I love my country and we need a President who will bring this country together, not divide it. We’ve got enough division. I want to lead a unified country.”

Throwing around McCarthy-Bombs when defending one's patriotism isn't exactly below-the-political belt. Also, it isn't exactly new.

http://thepage.time.com/obama-camp-research-on-past-b-clinton-comments-on-mccarthyism/">More...

[MidwestTransplant]

28. I have spent 14 years defending the Clintons. After BC's behavior in this election cycle

I will do it no more. I am beginning to think some of the things the wing nuts say about them is true. I used to be a Hillary supporter btw (though of course I would vote for her over McCain).

[jackson_dem]

31. What is so evil about saying if it is Hill vs. McCain it will be about issues, not BS?

I bet Bill also thinks both Hillary and McCain are good folks. Does that mean he thinks a third wheel who has zero to do with the comment isn't good?

[jefferson_dem]

65. This election season, Bill and Hillary have pissed what was left of their personal dignity...

and public legacy. It's sad to watch, really.

[LVjinx]

76. Please look for these Clinton quotes in context, and not the deceptive Obama spin on blogs.

Most of what has been attributed to Bill Clinton this cycle has been pure fiction.

[MidwestTransplant]

79. I don't look at spin. I make up my own mind and it's clear what BC has been trying to do

with a wink nudge. It's his right but it's also my right to be turned off and not willing to vote for HC over BO.

[robbedvoter]

32. Only someone paranoiac about having his patriotism questioned could read

what Bill Clinton said as a personal attack. he actually assumed candidates for POTUS were people who loved their country - and wanted then to get to debate th issues where they actually differ.
But I am trying to explain this to people who think everyone not worshiping their candidate is a troll so, I am probably wasting my time.

[donkeyotay]

33. Big Dog was once respected on this board.

Those who recite a mantra of "change" should question whether Obama or any other mortal can deliver this nebulous "change." It seems likely to me that real and lasting change on any problem facing this country would have to come from US. To the degree that we foist the responsibility onto a champion, I think we are less likely to achieve what we hope for.

Just for example, it has been widely observed here that some of the newer posters resemble freepers. Even Obama bragged about how he could bring in Republicans and called this new hybrid "Obamicans." My question to the Obamicans, though, is have THEY changed. They supported W, and shouted down doubters. Now it seems that some of them have switched their support but not their nature. Obama can't change that. Only they can.

[rodeodance]

56. "Obamicans."--sorry but this just was a stopper for me. BO said that?

[donkeyotay]

73. Yes, he did. I misspelled it.

Eisenhower is one of a small but symbolically powerful group of what Obama recently called "Obamacans"—disaffected Republicans who have drifted away from their party just as Eisenhower Democrats did and, more recently, Reagan Democrats in the 1980s.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/107476

Here's a group of repos for Obama. They started working to get him elected for the Democratic Party in 2006. They like his "unity." He's either going to make republicans happy, or he's going to run into the same shitstorm all of us old democrats have lived through. People act as if he had some magic potion that would decide policy without making one side or the other unhappy. Well, somebody's going to be pissed, and I'm guessing it's us, since he's done such wonderful things for party icons like Bill Clinton. I saw footage of the rally - Obama standing with his arms folded across his chest looking smugwhile he had some obamacan compare Big Dog to McCarthy. OMG. He would make the better comparison to McCarthy if this is what the "new" or should I say "neo" politics are made of.

http://www.republicansforobama.org/?q=homepage

[kevinmc]

35. Why would anyone Believe (I did not have sex with that woman) Bill Clinton .....n/t

[Maribelle]

43. Have you read post #33?

[golddigger]

48. Probably someone from freerepublic.

:shrug:

[rodeodance]

55. Very immature response. You can't make an argument so you insult.

[jefferson_dem]

63. ClintonInc is a congenital lie machine.

Geffen was right. Kick to the curb for the lot of them. We Democrats are better than anything they can offer.

[Auntie Bush]

39. Unfortunately, I only have time for a K & R.

[buff2]

44. K&R

Good post! :hi:

[golddigger]

49. K&R...nt

[jackson_dem]

51. "present"

[rodeodance]

53. "to help the Obama campaign's desperate effort to divert attention away from its recent.." YUP

[Dinger]

54. K & R (nt)

[Liquorice]

62. It's going to be very hard for me to

forgive the way some members of the democratic party have trashed the Clintons. I don't think I will ever feel the "unity" I once felt with fellow dems because I know now that some of them absolutely hate Bill and Hillary. That is not something I would have ever expected. I have a lot of gratitude and respect for what Bill Clinton did for the country in the 90's, and it pains me to see democrats who either downplay Bill's contributions, or simply outright deny them. I think it's a real shame.

[LVjinx]

77. Me too. It's the 90's all over again, with the Clinton's being misquoted and lied about constantly

I've asked several people to provide me some actual quotes of some of the things the CLinton's have supposedly said that were so horrible. No one appears, despite all the anger it brewed up, to actually possess or even have seen Bill Clinton's quote about Jesse Jackson winning South Carolina. Likewise, no one has been able to produce the quote calling Obama's campaign a fairy tale. Yet they all believe it, whole-heartedly, just as Rush listeners believe whole heartedly that Vince Foster was murdered. Proof? Who needs it. It's fun to hate the Clintons, apparently.

I will not vote for Obama if it comes down to it. His campaign has been disgusting. And his supporters have been even worse.

[gulliver]

68. Definitely a smear.

Clinton says Hillary gets along with McCain. That could have a negative connotation among Dems, so he covers that by asserting that two people who get along and have mutual respect for one another battling in the GE is a good thing. It was just further praise for McCain and Hillary to sell the concept of them getting along, loving the country, etc., not an attack on Obama at all.

It reminds me of the silly people jumping on Obama for the "typical white woman" comment and Kerry in 2006 for the "bad students end up in Iraq" (paraphrase) comment. Bush trots out an actual outrage every third sentence. But Dems go spastic over trivialities.

[TheDebbieDee]

69. K&R...........

[JoFerret]

70. RFK and McCarthy

....reminds me of Adlai Stevenson supporters who detested the Kennedys because of RFK's alleged collusion with Roy Cohn and all the rest of those r/w Mccarthyites.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

75. Well what would you have said

It is recorded that Bill Clinton said just that

[TK421]

78. present

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

80. .