James Carville: Betrayer of Kerry and all Democrats

[virtualobserver]

so I'll grant him an edge in "experience" on this issue. But he has no credibility with me.



http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2006/10/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_k/

[SoFlaJet]

1. the Clinton campaign

was already playing for Hillary's 2008 run back in '04-just like they're playing for a just in case 2012 scenario-scumbags

[blm]

11. The difference is that MORE OF US KNOW NOW what they are capable of doing and seeing

what they are doing to attack and undermine any other Dem leader who comes forward.

Before we only had them operating behind the scenes with none of their tactics openly viewed and rarely even discovered till it was far too late.

Now that we're seeing and hearing the lengths they will go through, it's a whole other reality we need to deal with it.

Think what Gore and Kerry went through WITHOUT us seeing the backstabbing and undermining on a dailiy basis the way we are now.

[SoFlaJet]

13. That's a really good point blm

you think it went back even to Gore v Bush-remind me of what I might have forgotten-besides all the incompetent people around him

[dansolo]

45. The DLC types pushed hard for Lieberman on the ticket

I wish that Gore had discovered himself before than, and didn't succumb to the pressure to put Lieberman on the ticket. (I don't believe for a moment that, even back then, that Lieberman was Gore's first choice)

[Cooley Hurd]

2. He's the epitome of what's wrong with politics today...

His plaque in between Lee Atwater and Rove in the politico's hall of shame is cemented... and covered with dung.:thumbsdown:

[Nitrogenica]

4. Exactly, I don't care how likeable he might be to some people.

He's part of the "spin" problem, not the solution.

[dchill]

7. Do you have evidence that anyone actually...

finds him likeable? Please post links with proof! :)

[Nitrogenica]

9. LOLS!!

Well I have a co-worker who likes him, I think he and his hideous wife were on Letterman or Leno or something this week and he thought they were an interesting couple.

That's all I got.

[dchill]

3. AND he's married to a top Republican flack-hack.

Talk about betrayal.
:(

[virtualobserver]

5. a pipeline into the Vice-President's office...

simplifies the betrayal process.

[SunsetDreams]

6. Could be, put it together with this...

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

[blm]

16. Gee - why would McAuliffe NOT work to secure 2002 and 2004 elections after 2000s theft?

Hillary2008?

[LTR]

18. McAuliffe is completely useless

I don't care how much money he could rake in, the guy was a complete weenie who only cared about his own causes. He's what's wrong with the Democratic Party of the past (we hope).

Howard Dean, on the other hand, knows how to get the job done. Sure, he had to make some tough decisions in regard to Michigan and Florida, but at least he's not afraid to take a controversial stand.

[blm]

20. Dean's spent his years strengthening party infrastructures in states McAuliffe let collapse.

and THAT is what made the difference in 2006 and will make the difference in 2008. Gore and Kerry would have HAD their landslides if the DNC had done its rightful job for Dem voters and our candidates.

[Vinca]

8. Maybe we ought to cut Carville some slack.

He can't possibly be in his right mind considering who he's married to.

[melody]

10. He's married to Cheney's fluffer

That's all I need to remember to hate his guts.

[rateyes]

12. Same guy who wanted the judge to go easy on Scooter Libby...

What a jerk he's become.

[Mimosa]

14. Carville: the shame from Louisiana

Carville is a horrible person who's part of the democratic party problem and has been for 20 years. I lived in New Orleans for 18 years. NOBODY likes him there. He's a fauxnee good old boy who's now rich and in sync with corporate America.

[blm]

15. How about just another actor in the Bush-Clinton dog and pony show put up over

the last two decades for the bases of the party.

[Honeycombe8]

17. This is ancient. Isn't it time to move on? So he may have mentioned something to wifey-poo.

And wifey-poo probably mentions some political things to him from time to time.

It's ancient news. And if someone was stupid enough to give confidential information to someone sleeping and living with someone in the other camp, well....there you go.

Time for change.

[MonkeyFunk]

19. This is a bullshit story

based on a thin thread from Bob Woodward.

In order to believe it's a betrayal, at least 10 important questions have to be answered. But people just fill in all the blanks and turn it into something it's not.

[blm]

23. Carville doesn't deny the account and you assume Woodward's lawyers never vetted the

account?

[MonkeyFunk]

24. because the account is only that he called his wife

It doesn't say he passed on secret information. It doesn't say HOW Carville got the information, since he's not part of the Kerry campaign. It doesn't say it was a betrayal.

And not a single person in the Kerry campaign, after all this time, has ever characterized it as a betrayal.

[blm]

28. Kerry's kept quiet about alot of the betrayals for the sake of party, and Woodward WITNESSED what

transpired in that phone call because he heard Mary's end of it and the relaying of information.

YOU ARE SO OBVIOUS in your NEED to present this as a nonissue when in fact, it is betrayals like this that set HONEST Dems like Kerry to work hard for Obama.

In YOUR false portrayals here at DU you HAVE to depict Brinkley as a gossip, though he's a noted historian, and you act as if Woodward is lying, though it is CERTAIN that his books are heavily vetted, and Carville HIMSELF does not deny the story.

[MonkeyFunk]

44. no, blm

you have been pushing this bare thread of a story for a long time, but you're entirely unable to fill in the blanks.

How did Carville know about this, since he wasn't in the campaign? Who told him? Was he told to keep it confidential? Perhaps they WANTED him to get the word to the White House. Who knows? You certainly don't!

[better tomorrow]

21. I think Mary (his wife) is holding out on him unless he backs Hillary because

they want her to run against McCain.

[LiberalAndProud]

22. If I could offer any advice to the Clinton campaign, it would be

to put miles and miles between her campaign and Carville. Same advice re Mark Penn. There is no redemption for those two in my estimation.

My reaction to seeing Carville on the tube is similar to my reaction to *. TURN IT OFF! NOW!

[dailykoff]

25. Yes, a Judas's Judas.

Definitely an expert on the subject. :puke:

[NJSecularist]

26. His friend Begala is a much better man.

Who has defended Democrats time and time again, while Carville has thrown them under the bus repeatedly.

[Bake]

27. As far as I'm concerned, it was Kerry who betrayed Democrats.

That piece of shit folded like a cheap suit. I'm shocked, frankly, that he had the valor to serve as he did in Vietnam. He sure lost whatever balls he had somewhere between then and 2004. Spineless, gutless, wind-surfing, Alps-skiing, latte-sipping, got-no-fight-in-him piece of shit. He deserves to lose his Senate seat.

His time on the public stage needs to come to an end.

Bake

[blm]

29. Name ONE lawmaker in DC who has risked themself more to uncover BushInc than Kerry has and

name ONE Dem who has PROTECTED BushInc more than Bill Clinton has.

Then you tell US Dems which is braver - does it take bravery to uncover BushInc's crimes or to COVER THEM UP FOR the BFEE?

YOU sure are comfortable with the coverup wing of the Democratic party and its leaders.

And you'll even attack the most honest Democrats just to protect your little Bushprotecting group of traitors.

[Bake]

30. Are you a freaking stalker or something?

Yes, I'm angry at Kerry for the way he folded in 2004. I think every Democrat ought to be. But every time I post that anger, you show up just like clockwork with the same old shit. Make it an OP.

Now please stop stalking me.

Bake

[blm]

31. I'm replying just as you show up to reply to always attack Kerry without any honest display

of what actually happened and you insult him as if he never accrued the best record in DC in going after BushInc - a most dangerous undertaking - while Clinton who you worship protected BushInc more than any other Dem - the safest thing for any lawmaker to do.

If you would just show some honesty in your answers I won't feel the need to correct you.

Besides, you are advocating in your posts that the TOP anti-corruption, open government lawmaker in DC be tossed out - you think that doesn't effect MY democracy?

[Bake]

32. Then just tell me this

If Kerry is so goddamn courageous, why did he quit on us in the 2004 election? He conceded Ohio before all the votes were even counted. He conceded the White House to another 4 years of Bush.

WHY? If he's such a courageous man, WHY?

Bake

[NJSecularist]

36. There was no conceivable scenario where Kerry would have won the GE given the final margins

Yes, we can argue over and over again about the descripency between the exit poll numbers and the final results. We can argue whether Blackwell and his GOP thugs in Ohio tampered with some of the results in some GOP and Democratic districts in Ohio. But when the results came in from each county and all 100% of the precincts reported in Ohio, there was no conceivable way for Kerry to win the election, even when all of the outstanding provisional ballots that were surely to lean Democratic were counted.

[blm]

37. The votes that could be counted were counted. He did NOT concede before they were counted - that is

a myth. Kerry's was the second slowest concession in history.

You need to direct blame where it truly exists - on a DNC that refused to secure the election process so neither Gore OR Kerry could get ALL the votes they earned counted.

And many of us believe that the DNC ignored the security of the election process DELIBERATELY because those in its leadership wanted to keep 2008 open for Clinton.

You ignore these reports but if you would just put it all in context knowing that all the people involved are Clinton people, it should make even a hardened loyalist pause.
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354


You blame Kerry when Carville was actively SABOTAGING Ohio Dem voters so Kerry COULDN'T have the math to challenge.
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward

[NJSecularist]

34. The myth that Kerry didn't want to fight back is complete and utter bullshit

It's been repeated over and over again on this forum and each and every time it is bullshit.

Kerry's lawyers were locked and loaded. Their planes were chartered and they were a moment away from being sent to contest the results in several battleground states, the most important state being Ohio. Kerry was advised that under no circumstance would any combination of provisional or outstanding ballots give him the margin of victory needed to win Ohio - and therefore, the general election.

[Bake]

39. If Kerry had run a halfway decent campaign, it wouldn't have been close.

I was a true-blue Kerry supporter. But he ran a shitty, shitty campaign. He responded to the swiftboaters with too little, too late. He was fucking windsurfing or skiing in the Alps when he should have been kissing babies.

My loathing and disdain for Kerry is boundless, and nothing you say can sway me.

Bake

[NJSecularist]

41. Your loathing and disdain for Kerry is based in emotion, not fact.

Fact: Kerry attempted to battle Swift Boat accusations. He fought back against the attacks at the Firefighter's Convention on August 20th, the same day the second Swift Boat ad hit the airwaves. He had a same day press conference condemning the attacks. All through August, September and October, he repeatedly comdemned the ads. He fought back as hard as he could. Where he made his fatal misstep was months before, when he accepted public financing. When you commit to public financing, you have a spending limit. Bush committed to the same spending limit. I believe it was $85 million. The problem is that the Republican National Convention was held 5 weeks after our convention. Thus, we had to spend our $85 million over a 13 week period while they could spend their $85 million over a 8 week period. Thus, Kerry and his advisors were forced to forego spending valuable money on TV spots to fight the Swift Boat attacks so they could use that money in the last few days of his campaign in key battleground stats like Pennyslvania, Florida and Ohio because the $85 million was spread so thin because we had to use it - and nothing more - over a 13 week period.

Fact: You can count the number of war-time incumbents on one hand who have lost the presidency when up for re-election. It is a very rare occurence. Even if our wildest dreams, even if Kerry ran a flawless campaign, we were still facing an uphill battle.

The anger being directed at John Kerry is just unbelievable - and the petty charges directed at him are certainly not based in fact.

[Bake]

42. The "war-time incumbent" issue is a non-starter.

Because this war is, and was, so unpopular, and because Bush was so vulnerable. The fact that the election was as close as it was should tell you that.

Kerry is still dead to me.

Bake

[NJSecularist]

43. The war was not nearly as unpopular then as it is now

To say otherwise is to engage in revisionist history.

To say that Bush was hated then as much as he is hated now is also revisionist history. He had a 50% approval rating in October 2004.

It was an uphill battle in 2004. People tend to forget that. If the election was held in March 2008 instead of November 2004, Bush would have lost the election to Kerry. But today is a different time then it was 3 and half years ago.

[blm]

46. What level of FASCISM would this nation be at right now WITHOUT John Kerry's work

and efforts, dbaker?

You show respect for the Clinton wing Dems who SABOTAGED Dems and the American people as they protected BushInc who should have been jailed after the YEARS of work Kerry put into exposing them.

And you don't even MAKE SENSE - if Kerryran the bad campaign you claim, then BushInc's RNC wouldn't have HAD to spend so much time stealing, lying, and rigging machines all over the country, would they?

Kerry won every matchup he had with Bush.

The DNC let the RNC run all over them....AGAIN...and DELIBERATELY.

[Mooney]

35. Steve Moore, is that you?

Does he also eat sushi? That would be right up there with your many well-considered and thoughtful reasons to hate him.

And he'll never lose his senate seat. He'll be there for at least the next 20 years. Get used to it.

[shayes51]

33. And Kerry is a betrayer of Edwards.

[blm]

38. Nope. Edwards betrayed Kerry and did so early on when he helped McAuliffe paint

Kerry as the only one to blame for 2004. Edwards was a fool for thinking that McAuliffe would be of use to HIS CAMPAIGN for 2008.

[billyoc]

40. Carville's a loyal DLC man.

That is to say, he sucks.