The Day Hillary Clinton Knew She Had Lost - HuffPo

[WillyT]

<snip>

Earlier this week, Hillary Clinton was back in Michigan, a full two months after its "primary," pleading with the state legislature to allow a revote in the state. As she stood in downtown Detroit, it was becoming increasingly clear that there would be no do-over and she looked for the first time as if she realized she had lost, in that typically defiant "I'll-drag-you-all-down-with-me" Clinton way. After all, she had staked whatever little she had left on a revote in a state in which fully 40% of the Democratic voters showed up on a cold January day to vote Uncommitted (ie, anyone but Clinton, the only name on the ballot), in which the most recent public polling shows her in a dead heat with Barack Obama, and where she had firmly backed the "disenfranchisement" she was now decrying. And even this slender straw of a revote was denied her: the extent of the despair is plain.

Clinton will not be the Democratic nominee because she will not be able to erase Obama's delegate lead. And she will not be able to gain enough delegates because Democratic primary voters nationwide have decided that they prefer Obama as their candidate in the general election. It isn't more complicated than that, despite the Clintons' grotesque attempts at changing the rules, masking the truth and comfortably living up to their reputation for lacking trustworthiness.

Even in the worst week of his campaign, Obama has actually increased his lead over Clinton in national polls, according to Real Clear Politics, the standard in the matter. There are states in which the Clintons' relentless baiting of race, gender and, now, patriotism has taken its toll, at least in the short term: Ohio and Missouri, for instance, are less likely to vote for Obama now than they were a couple of weeks ago. It won't be clear until November if this is a short-term effect, or a more in depth problem; either way, that is the Clintons' legacy, once again: making it harder for Democrats other than themselves to gain power, whether in the Congress in the 1990s, or in this year's presidential election. There are other states in which Clinton's assault has made no difference whatsoever, or even hurt her more than him: in California and in New York, for instance, where in the latter Obama now leads McCain by a larger margin than she does (despite the fact she is a Senator from the state).

Since February 5, 62 superdelegates have endorsed Obama, and only a handful have endorsed Clinton (more have switched to him than have newly endorsed her): it's safe to say that superdelegates are not the path to victory for Clinton, despite her campaign's best efforts to spook them with the specter of GOP religious and racial warfare against Obama in November.

Despite a core group of financial backers who stepped in to try to buy a Michigan revote, Clinton cannot be rolling in cash right now and she is weeks away from her likely next victory, in Pennsylvania, the only event that could prompt any significant money bump. Any day now, she may have to reach into her family's deepening pockets, probably right around the time when they are set to release their presumably cloudy tax returns. It all feels very moot.

In retrospect, it is amazing that New Hampshire, which Clinton won by one of the narrowest margins of any state in this year's primaries, was the highlight of her campaign. Certainly it was an improvement on her dismal third place in Iowa, but after Jan 8, it was downhill, with a trouncing in South Carolina and the 21 other states that Obama won by 20+% margins. That she has been able to stay in the race at all is a testament to the power of the Clinton name, the Democratic Party's ludicrous electoral system, and her hold over a petrified media and the party's bureaucratic elite.

Bill Richardson's endorsement of Obama this week was more than another blow, as he ignored his history with the Clintons, as well as reminders of past favors owed. How long before John Edwards, Al Gore, et al, follow suit, or risk being blamed for the further disintegration of the party they owe so much to? Nancy Pelosi has all but thrown her lot in with Obama, but a formal endorsement would be appropriate at this time.

Not being a politician, let alone a Clinton, it's hard to see what makes her stay in the race at this point. She appears somewhat less willing than her husband to alienate entire segments of the party, including many of the Congressional colleagues whose collegiality and support she will need soon enough. Perhaps like Bill, though, she has something to prove to her spouse: he needs to show he cares, and she needs to show that she can win. But shouldn't that be something for them to work out alone, without the future of the Democratic Party, of the U.S. government, and of the country itself at stake?

Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-jenkins/the-day-hillary-clinton-k_b_92821.html

:shrug:

[FrenchieCat]

1. The day I knew she lost?

When she lectured to Obama about him giving false hope. That's the day that she lost.

[Nitrogenica]

3. Exactly. She should have agreed on that point, they'd maybe be running mates by now

[tabasco]

7. The "sky will open" harangue was utterly pathetic.

It was an eye-opener. It showed me that Hillary Clinton has lost all common decency and common sense.

[Blondiegrrl]

23. I will never be able to erase from my head her nasty tone of voice nor her sneer.

She's delivered a lot of low blows this campaign, but I truly think that was her worst moment.

[MindMatter]

125. Dick Cheney with peroxide

[pipi_k]

122. For me, that was her "George Bush" moment

As I recall GWB mocking Karla Faye Tucker some years ago, and was what ultimately turned me against him for all time. Sure, she had killed...but mocking her was completely and totally repulsive. That one 30 or 45 second filmclip and soundbyte gave me a disturbing look into the man's odious character and I was sickened by what I saw...and now, years later, I see I was right.

Anyway, I started out supporting Al Gore, and continued right up till the moment I received a memo from his office (in reply to my written plea for him to enter the race) saying that he would not be running. After that, I wasn't sure which one of the candidates I'd support.

When it finally came down to Obama and Clinton, I still wasn't absolutely sure, but little by little, I've come to the conclusion that a change was needed, and I'd support Obama. Never did like Hillary, even when she was First Lady....BUT....if by some strange happenstance she becomes the Party Nominee, I'll hold my nose and vote for her.

Even in light of the mocking way she spoke of the sky opening up...

I do not like her, but I'll vote for her if it comes down to that. Hopefully she can only be less dangerous than "Mad John" McCain...

[WillyT]

142. Welcome To DU, pipi_k !!!

:toast::bounce::toast:

Glad ta have ya aboard!!!

:hi:

[NEOhiodemocrat]

151. Welcome to DU

I went from Edwards to Obama. And like you I would vote for Clinton if it came down to a choice between her and McCain. But I am hopeful it doesn't.

[tabasco]

198. Welcome to DU.

Are you named after the German pistol?

[caledesi]

205. I agree! NT

[Bonobo]

9. Yeah, the "Anti-Hope Candidate" when you're married to the "Kid from Hope"! Ha!

It don't get more ironic than that.

[WinkyDink]

64. Or, perhaps, more psychological.

[frogcycle]

10. when she lectured him about

not taking responsibility - said something about it's impossible to have a debate with you, because you never...

don't remember it exactly, but it was the tone that did it for me. Sounded EXACTLY like a mother scolding a teenager for not taking out the trash or something. I thought, OK, there went the vote of every male who ever heard that tone from a mother - or a wife. Pooof! Call that sexist if you will, but it was like fingernails on chalkboard to me.

[Grinchie]

99. It Actually is Deeper than sounding like a Mother scolding a Child

What she did was take the oldest rule in the Pedagogue book by invoking "Shame", which is used to control and manipulate children from a very early age. Since the child is forced to supress feelings and instead channel shame, the parent is afforded "Control" over their kids.

For a good background on this subject, see "For Your Own Good" by Alice Miller. It talks about how Hitler was able to direct people to do the atrocities that they did. After all, he could never have done it without willing participants.

Her studies are quite astounding, and if you read the book, you may just come to realize that you may have been subjected to the same treatment when you were young.

Hillary's tirade was unmistakable, and thats why you think is sounded like "Fingernails on the chalkboard". Most likely cause we've all been there for the most part.

People go to therapy over stuff like that when they reach adulthood!

[RazBerryBeret]

108. My 11 year old

was watching one of the early debates with me. His perspective was that she sounded and acted like a mean old school teacher.
that insight cracked me up -- and I think he was right....

[SoCalDem]

115. I pegged it immediately.. a Mom finding porn under a teenaged son's bed

Shame on YOU.. explain this, young man :)

[hisownpetard]

129. Yes, I remember - that was the perfect comparison, right down to the facial expression.

[beezlebum]

117. my momma

NEVER invoked shame on me, but my grandmother, who walked a fine line between strict tyrannical disciplinarian and abusive control freak- it was an artform to her- did it almost hourly (and still does to my poor ole pappy, who is deathly ill).

hence the chills of disgust i got (or get, as i've noted this technique before, though i didn't understand why it stirred the most despicable feelings) when i heard clinton's shame rhetoric, and the mocking was just as bad ("the sky will open up..."), as it was akin to schoolyard bullying. and i did go to therapy- for both.

thanks for this- i will certainly check out alice miller.

[Major Hogwash]

17. Yeah, but I still can't hear the celestial choir.

LoL

[SoCalDem]

116. That celestial light from above??

[AzDar]

20. The day she said 'the terrorists are also watching our elections closely'.

No thanks.

[earthlover]

22. Sure that wasn't Bush? Hard to tell sometimes....

[me b zola]

52. Different sides of the same coin...

...turns out that coin was a slug.

[VolcanoJen]

30. Remember the end of the Ohio (or was it Texas) debate...

... where she said she was honored to be sharing the remaining primary contests with Obama? That seemed like a moment to me... a moment where she could have capped a poorly-run campaign on a positive note, and bring it all to an end.

And then they started throwing the Kitchen Sink.

It's really a very sad demise, and in a way, Shakespearean. You couldn't write ten years of West Wing scripts that would add up to being as eye-popping as any given five days on Campaign Trail 2008.

[leftstreet]

48. Yeah, it was Texas

For a minute I wondered if they'd worked out a VP deal for her.


And, you know, no matter what happens in this contest -- and I am honored, I am honored to be here with Barack Obama. I am absolutely honored

[WolverineDG]

134. She could have had a stellar moment in that debate

but she went for the cheap shot & got booed (the Xerox comment). Had she made a gracious statement (I believe Senator Obama has explained himself & no further comments are necessary, or something to that effect), she would have gotten a lot of respect (& probably a lot of votes). But no, she had to be petty.

dg

[Willo]

184. I don't remember the details exactly but

prior to that debate, she was saying he had no plans. The plans he had were not good and mocked his hope speeches.

Throughout the debate she looked foolish because Barack set the tone and saying repeatedly in different forms "Hillary and I have the same plans," "We have the same ideas", to which SHE NODDED AND AGREED, EACH AND EVERY TIME. Putting the lie to her previous speeches.

During that debate, I was imagining a sideline coach screaming "NO, HILLARY, NO!" as they watched it unfold.

Then, (after the lockerroom review), her rant about the healthcare flyers, was her first chance to try and "fix" those mistakes. Which only left her looking sillier.

[krkaufman]

199. I was shaking my head at that, listening to all the media praising her conciliatory tone ...

... even though just a short while earlier in the debate, she'd rolled-out the petty "change you can Xerox" line. To me, her closing rang false and I was surprised everyone was praising her.

The attack surge following didn't come as much of a surprise.

[Arugula Latte]

147. The moment that made me cringe utterly was when she made the "get Barack a pillow' comment

at the debate. That was just ... painful ... to watch. x(

[slinkerwink]

2. great post!

[PBS Poll-435]

51. If you like that kind of thing...nt

[tabasco]

4. Only self-interest will force Clinton out.

The Clintons have placed themselves above the good of the Democratic party and the good of the country.

I am happy the Clinton dynasty within the Democratic party is ending. The corrupt Clinton DLC'ers have made the Democratic party weak and ineffective.

[40ozDonkey]

5. A little less wailing and gnashing of teeth would be nice.

Dynasties are bound for failure.

[tabasco]

11. Direct your comments to the Clinton campaign.

"Now, I could stand up here and say, 'Let's just get everybody together. Let's get unified. The sky will open. The light will come down. Celestial choirs will be singing, and everyone will know we should do the right thing and the world will be perfect.'"

[MindMatter]

127. One of the most peculiar statements by a politician in my lifetime

Pay no attention to Obama. All he's talking about is ... hope. Who needs that?

I'm offering you ... more of what you hope you don't have to put up with for the rest of your life.

I wonder if there will come a time when she sees a video of herself talking that nonsense -- and finally realizes how stupid that sounds. I'm guessing not. The Clintons have a whole different reality.

[frogcycle]

14. what dynasty?

He was pres for 8 years, she's been a senator. That's a dynasty?


Only if she got elected could you even BEGIN to call it a dynasty. And that's not happening, so to hell with this discussion anyway.

[pokercat999]

91. When you throw in the Bush years it becomes a dynasty.

1988/2008 20 years of Bush/Clinton.....8 more years no thank you.

[frogcycle]

156. two bushes, one clinton sandwiched in

that does NOT make clinton a dynasty, or part of a dynasty.

[pokercat999]

178. Guess I just meant a dynasty of policy.

NAFTA, Welfare Reform, getting on his knees the the RW generals on "don't ask, don't tell, etc. Hill carried on this tradition nicely in the Senate with the OK Bush go to war vote and the bankruptcy bill and her vote on outlawing cluster bombs in civilian areas (not).

Oh yeah, I can smell dynasty there.

[frogcycle]

181. yeah, i wrote a piece a while back

when there were still eight dems in the running, about how I could not vote for HRC because of Bill's failure to reverse the tide of the systematic destruction of the progressive movement

so i agree with that; just a stickler for semantics

[pokercat999]

207. I have enough trouble just using the American/English

langauge let alone concerning myself with the semantics of same. :evilgrin:

[90-percent]

98. Dynasty

Bush-1, Bill, Bill, GWB, GWB, Hillary, Hillary

Now that's the dynasty I could do without!

-90% Jimmy

[ClassWarrior]

6. "It's safe to say that superdelegates are not the path to victory for Clinton..."

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

16. .

[stop the bleeding]

8. 5,4,3,2,1 until

someone comes and shits on this awesome post.

:beer:

[MannyGoldstein]

12. She's In It To Destroy Obama

He's interfered with her getting her due, so he must be destroyed: this is the Clinton way. As the brilliant Maureen Dowd described so well today:

It’s impossible to imagine The Terminator, as a former aide calls her, giving up. Unless every circuit is out, she’ll regenerate enough to claw her way out of the grave, crawl through the Rezko Memorial Lawn and up Obama’s wall, hurl her torso into the house and brutally haunt his dreams.

The entire Party needs to launch the Deceitful Duo off the stage, to make it clear to the world that The Clintons speak for nobody but themselves - which, after all, is actually all they've ever done.

[LisaL]

28. He seems to be doing a good job of it all on his own.

[anamandujano]

85. He takes no personal responsibility, just blames her for his poor

life choices.

The media's turning all the Obama foibles into a Clinton dirty tricks reminds me of the George W DUI incident that surfaced just prior to the election. It was turned into a Dem dirty trick by the disgusting media.

Deja vu, all over again but with our own cheering it on this time. :puke:

[TomBall Democrat]

160. Yeah, that must be why he keeps picking up endorsements

and super delegates.

more caucus delegates, too.

Yeah, that's it.


It's over for Hillary. She's the one who didn't have the experience, temperament, or the skill.

Face it, Barack built a better machine. She's running on empty and anger.

[bhikkhu]

46. That will pass.

She is, in the end, a professional and a politician. Unprofitable destruction is not a part of the make-up.

[Grinchie]

100. More Likely a Lawyer who won't go to court unless there's a fortune in it for them

Unfortunately, there is a fortune in it for whoever wins, along with the DLC corporate shills that tag along with them.

[Vinnie From Indy]

113. I agree

I believe that the Clintons have recently realized that Hillary will not be the nominee. They have decided to "dirty" up Obama in the hopes that John McCain will be elected and they can make another run in 4 years.

[tbyg52]

144. That's the only reason I've been able to come up with for what she's doing

Which is one of the reasons I am through with her. I don't think she can get the nomination without in essence stealing it. Even if she does I will hold my nose and vote for the Democrat, but she really needs to drop out, or at least stop what she and Bill are doing. It shows they care more about themselves than the party, and if they're willing to do this to the party I can only imagine what they might be willing to do to the country. At this moment I dislike and distrust both of them intensely.

[TomBall Democrat]

161. I'm considering whether I can remain party of the party machine

if she manages to steal this.

How can I feel like we've practiced Democracy if she does?

I'm a sustaining member of the local Democratic party, and why would I remain one if they let this happen?

It'll feel like 2000 all over again - another stolen election.

Disagree with me or not, it's what I'm feeling right now. I see lots of old time Dems who feel like they have the right to appoint her. They're angry that we're not falling in line. Then, they call us "robots" or cult-members. As if. Who's walking the party line here?

[tbyg52]

167. I dunno - because they're better than R's

and those are the only two viable options this election cycle? (I realize that's only a short-term answer.)

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[TomBall Democrat]

170. But I'm not sure they'll get my money every month

Not if they're gonna ignore the people.

that's all I'm saying -

[tbyg52]

175. Oh, I see - and agree

Sorry, I'm not terribly politically savvy and did not :blush: get the "sustaining" part - I've never done a monthly continuing donation to any organization, and sure wouldn't start with the Democrats now....

[LongTomH]

177. If Hillary thinks she's giving herself a chance at running in 2012.......

by cheapshotting Obama, she's delusional! If she causes the party to lose this election, Democrats are going to treat her - and Bill - like they're radioactive.

[stop the bleeding]

13. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

:beer:

[Umbram]

15. This is all too true. Too true I tell you! (nt)

[Cha]

18. Or the day hilary dug

her heels in deeper..determined to bring Obama down with her. In hilary squeak ..there's always 2012 and mccain should be a snap then!

[earthlover]

24. Assuming McCain wins in 08, he will have the advantage of incumbency in 2012

By 2016 Hillary will be 68. How old is mcCain?

[Cha]

32. Oh I don't think it's gonna

happen..it's just the only explaination of hilary's rampant smears and lies. I think she's only hurting herself..bad.

[Kool Kitty]

34. Old enough to have packed Columbus' lunch.

[Hepburn]

42. The asshole is 71.

[havocmom]

54. The rest of him is probably about that old too.

Dirt is older than McCain. Nothing else is though.

[Hepburn]

70. OMG...

...you made me laugh out loud with your reply to my post!

Thanks, I needed that tonight! :hi:

[Jackpine Radical]

112. WHAT rest of him?

[misanthrope]

81. Who said incumbency in 2012 will be an advantage?**nm

**

[Major Hogwash]

19. "Hillary Clinton - setting the woman's movement back for 18 years."

Stand By Your Man - I can hear that song even now faintly playing in the background as the sun slowly sets in the West on Hillary's campaign.

[earthlover]

29. I don't know about that...

I think her candidacy will make it more likely for a woman to be president. Hopefully that woman will be more progressive and less of a war enabler.

If she got the nomination and lost, it might set women back. Because in this year everyone expects the Democrat to win. And her sex would likely be blamed for a loss (even though reality would show it would be HRC to blame not her ovaries). However, she is not going to get the nomination. So in the future, the energy behind the Hillary campaign will inspire future women to run.

[Voice for Peace]

38. I'm not sure if her campaign hasn't set back the chances for another woman in the future.

[earthlover]

44. I am not sure either, actually

Hillary may have done some harm by her trying to take so much credit for her husband's experience. I thought it pathetic when she "almost cried" to get sympathy....something that male candidates like Muskie did only to see their campaigns come to a swift halt....but a woman is expected to cry and get the sympathy vote and get the sympathy she did. How totally demeaning to women! Not every woman cries at the face of pressure and Hillary might, but she only furthers a stereotype here.

I used to think a woman president would be less war-like. Hillary has put an end to this illusion, with her support for iwr and Kyle-Lieberman. The ruthlessness of her campaign is not exactly a kinder-gentler version either. Hillary's candidacy seems to emulate the worst parts of the male world in order to advance her personal gain. And in the end the hateful glare she displayed during the last debate towards Obama illustrate another facet of her personality.

So, based on Hillary as a candidate, on what basis are women candidates any better than the idiotic men who have been ruling our country?

[madrchsod]

49. a woman that does`t campaign on being as tough as a man...

would be a start. i do not understand why she decided on this ..i guess she thought this is what america wants but unfortunately for her it is`t playing that way. i have known women far tougher than hillary but they never act like they are...

[Not Sure]

63. It's because she takes the position

that there is a built in bias against women because they can't be as tough as men. As far as I'm concerned, only the fundamentalist 'thugs feel this way about women, since women are inferior to men, according to their interpretation of the bible.

When people who have been oppressed act in the ways that the oppressed have limited them to, it strengthens the powers of the oppressors. Ignoring those bonds of oppression does much more to disarm the oppressors. In other words, if women simply present themselves as who they are rather than try to prove wrong those who think they're weak, they marginalize those who think they're limited. Let your opponent frame the debate and you lose.

As far as setting back the women's movement is concerned, I don't think so. I think she's set back the Clinton movement though.

[cascadiance]

140. I think America WANTS to have a leader who leads with their mind and not their gonads too!....

I think many are waiting for the right woman who doesn't feel that pressure to be arrogant and macho, just because many of our former male leaders have slipped into this destructive personality trait that has hurt our country on so many occasions. If we have a decent woman candidate in the future who is strong in her convictions (and doesn't get pushed around), BUT doesn't confuse that with trying to be "macho", "arrogant", and "tough", like other male candidates, I predict that woman will REALLY take America by storm.

There are many of us out there as men (myself included), who really want this sort of leadership by wisdom and not gonads, and would jump at the chance to support it. I sympathize with many women who feel they have to have followed the "leadership by gonads" approach to get ahead in many segments of our society where that has been thrown out as a false way of getting ahead by those in power. It will be the woman that makes a break from this who will truly have us make some decent revolutionary changes that this country sorely needs to regain the respect around the world, help assert itself as a leader in areas it is needed like the battle against global warming, and the battle to make globalization not detrimental to our environment and the worlds' working people.

But I'm supporting Obama at this point, since I feel at least he's a start in this direction. Still not as forthright as I'd like on some issues, he still has a great potential to have this sort of role.

I'd like to think that what she's seeing isn't only a slap against "Clintonism", but cronyism in general, which I think that America is saying they've had quite enough of with it's extreme being wielded over us for so long now with such devastating consequences.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BearSquirrel2]

21. Maybe if she hadn't lobied against revotes ...

Maybe if she had not lobbied against revotes, they would have revoted.

[Political Heretic]

25. K&R

[Tarheel_Dem]

26. k&r...because I couldn't agree more.

:kick:

[Milo_Bloom]

27. She lost the race when she voted for the war.

IF she had voted against the IWR, she would be the nominee today.

[closeupready]

31. Yeah, I was just gonna say that.

The IWR. That was a mistake. At the same time, it really reflected her lack of character, so a reality where she didn't vote for it, would have to be a separate one, because her character is flawed in that respect.

[roguevalley]

68. we've had eight years of someone who couldn't admit

they were wrong. she refused too. to her own doom

[Grinchie]

101. I think her IWR vote was very revealing

If it wasn't there, I never would have discovered the cancerous DLC nest festering within the heart of the Democratic party!

Out with them all!

[gateley]

187. A good majority voted for the IWR, dems included.

The Kyl-Lieberman bill is a different story. As Biden said, "why would anyone believe this president about ANYTHING anymore?". That right there is what was the beginning of the "clinch" for me. Not only because it was painfully obvious it was a calculated move so she could use her "tough against war" vote as ammo in the GE against the Republican nominee, but more fundamentally "why would anyone believe this president about ANYTHING anymore?". :eyes:

[Scurrilous]

33. K & R

:thumbsup:

[Diane R]

35. "I'm HONORED"...followed 36 hrs later by, "SHAME on YOU, Barack Obama!".

[damndude]

78. don't forget..........

"enough with the speeches and the big rallies" which preceded that quote. sounding completely shrill and jealous of his drawing power compared to hers. this all seem very much out of jealousy. how can she, the dutiful, intelligent honor roll student be getting beaten for class resident by the more popular football star. arrogant much

[misanthrope]

80. Tracy Flick**nm

**

[damndude]

137. i'm glad you got that

i wasn't sure if a lot of people had seen the movie, but hillary seems to be not above sinking to serious depths of duplicity.


election is the movie btw

[misanthrope]

197. Google "Tracy Flick Hillary Clinton" to see a funny short film**nm

**

[anamandujano]

87. She foolishly listened to his words on clean campaigning and

got angry that he sunk so low as to put out misleading (lying) literature.

[Grinchie]

102. What was wrong with the Literature?

I read her policies on her web site not less than 2 weeks earlier and I came to the same conclusion as what was presented in the flyers. Additionally, Obama called her out on it during the debate and he never wavered while she wiggled and squirmed.

Maybe you should go back to a cached version of her web site on Google and check your facts.

[Beacool]

36. We her supporters don't give a rat's ass what anybody else says

and we want her to stay all the way to Puerto Rico. If she still loses in the end so be it, but we won't give up on her. If there are those who don't like it, then too bad on them.

:shrug:

[Hepburn]

43. This is the exact attitude that will guarantee that we get Prez McCain.

Insert appropriate swear words. :grr:

[Beacool]

55. Why, because there are plenty of us who don't like Obama?

It's not just about Hillary. It's about nominating someone who is experienced and capable enough to run the country, and to some of us that person is not Obama.

[Colobo]

61. Obama will make all of us proud by leading this nation to prosperity.

[roguevalley]

71. hey, beacool, the next time she goes to a war zone,

maybe you can go too and tell us about the bullets. I don't want delusional liars. we already have one of those. And if you can find a visited war zone and almost died story for Obama, I would love to hear it.

[Beacool]

77. Save the snarky remarks.

You want to send someone to a war zone? Send your neophyte candidate, let's see if it toughens him up.

[gateley]

189. He's been. January 2006.

And it wasn't after a peace accord had been signed, either.

[Hepburn]

72. It's about hanging on to a loser and keeping the party from unifying.

Sorry you cannot see how destructive this has been. Hillary cannot win. It is NOT an issue at this point of who is better ~~ it is an issue of when do we as Dems get our shit together and go after McCain.

Please think of what is best for everyone involved. She cannot win and Obama has the best shot at beating McCain.

Geeeeeeeez, do you really what that SOB in the WH? Please...stop, OK?

[Beacool]

79. She's not a loser, a little more respect!!!

As for Obama, there are plenty of us who do not want to see him in the WH.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

119. Do not want to see Obama in the Whitehouse?

The only viable alternative at this point is McCain.

[Zambero]

126. Then a 3rd Bush term courtesy of John McCain is your goal?

He supports Bush's policies, both foreign and domestic. And with his short fuse and trigger-happy impatience he would be more likely to pursue military options first, a virtual "Bush on steroids". Hillary is not my first choice but I would still vote for her against the likes of McCain.

[Hepburn]

130. She is behind in popular vote, number of pledged delegates and...

...number of states won. How is that not a loser? :shrug:

So, your choices are Hillary who loses to McCain because you don't want to see Obama in the WH?

Wow...is that ugly...!

[damndude]

138. plenty of hillary supporters that is.

seems everyone who ha supported one candidate or another has who has dropped out has switched allegiance to obama out of unity and the sense that he is a person of integrity, honesty and has his own sense of duty to his party and the american people. his idealism is his strength. once upon a time someone was elected to the presidency on that strength and now that rings bells and call it inexperience and naivete. the truth is that many rank and file democrat has lost all faith in Hillary based on her campaigning and see that is her style of governance and don't want to suffer through another presidency where politics is all out war against your opponents. she has reminded everyone of the worst parts of her husband's presidency and herself now shown why obama is the better candidate and leader. the continuing of the nomination fight at this point is her won selfishness and sense of entitlement. everyone sees that fact other then her most die hard, committed and yes, idealistic supporters.

[FedUp_Queer]

92. There it is again...

She has "experience." This assertion, like so many assertions in politics, has become "true" merely because someone has spoken it enough. Why I'm beating this dead horse, I don't know, but here goes. Sen. Clinton does not have experience. She does, in fact, have less electoral experience than Obama. She does have less ability to organize people than Obama. So, please, I guess there are reasons to vote for her on grounds that are actually "actual," but experience is a ruse, or, better put, a fairy tale.

[Grinchie]

105. Experience Corporate Shill Need Not Apply

Corporations are not Democracy's. Chew on that while you eat your GMO Corn Flakes in rBGH laced Milk. You can thank Bill and Hillary for allowing these untested and dangerous foods into our food supply without allowing them to be labeled as such. Hillary's a lawyer, so she knows that if people see that they get sick when they eat GMO foods, there may be accountability to be made somewhere, and Corporate layers at the Rose Law Firm HATE Accountability.

Hillary's experience has a poisonous taint attatched, and thats why I will not vote for her, no matter how much "Branding" that whitewash her with.

Obama is more real and seems connected with the reality of our world today. Hilary on the other hand is living in a Corporate Political cocoon.

[crankychatter]

121. Why would anybody not like Obama?

hm?

[GMFORD]

171. It's about August.

If we don't start campaigning against McCain until August, that gives us two months to beat him while he has had 6 months of roaming around unopposed. That is not good for the Democratic party.

This primary has gone on for over a year now. It has deteriorated into muckraking - Dem on Dem infighting. It must stop ASAP if we want to win the general election.

If the roles were reversed and it appeared that Obama, short of a miracle, could not win the nomination I would be saying the same thing. As a Clinton supporter you must understand that even though you truly believe she is the best choice (as I felt about Biden at one time and many felt about Edwards and Gore), it is time to unite around the person who is going to win it whether we wait for August or not. We need to give Obama enough time to mount an effective campaign against McCain, it's the right thing to do at this point.

[hogwyld]

206. So by your experience standard

We should also elect Laura Bush and Nancy Reagan? :puke: No Thanks.

[anamandujano]

89. If he gets the nod, he plans to blame his humiliating loss to McCain on Hillary.

Can't say I'm surprised.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

120. Did he tell you that personally?

Or are you just making shit up? :eyes:

[me b zola]

58. Yeah, unfortunately I know this about Hillary's supporters

A Hillary supporter at work the other day was mocking Obama supporters so I suggested that Obama supporters were aware that a historical leader, after a generation without one, was representing us again. Her retort? Yeah, Hitler was a great leader too. :puke: :mad: :grr: :argh:

Quite frankly I've had all that I can take of Hillary supporters. Just go register republican and be done with it all fucking ready.

[FedUp_Queer]

60. Hey man.

if she wants to stay in all the way, it's her right. It's all good, and it's cool. However, if the tables were turned, she would have insisted that Obama withdraw. If I've said it once, I've said it a million times, as an Edwards supporter, I was, of course, disappointed when he lost. I was torn between the two. I hated seeing the pissant squabbling daily from each campaign. The exceedingly immature sniping by the respective supporters...mostly on this website. I remember I was in the gym on the elliptical during the Texas debate. I saw the end, and her wonderful "proud to be on the same stage" with Obama speech. I actually cheered out loud in the gym. I had tears in my eyes because I was like...the GOP is toast. Then came the Steve Kroft interview on 60 Minutes and the "as far as I know" statement (before anyone pounces...yes, I saw the ENTIRE interview and not just that one comment). That seemed so dirty, so unbelievably calculated to infer some nefarious "fifth-columnish" sense that Obama was a Muslim, was hiding it, and would institute Shari'a law, if elected. Then I learned that the original "Obama is a Muslim" email came from a Clinton county chair in Iowa. I saw her say he was the only one of the remaining three to be unqualified to be President, essentially serving up McCain's first commercial in the general election. Then I saw that while the press reported that it was Obama's campaign who gave a wink and a nod to Canadian officials about his Nafta rhetoric, the truth came out, and it was Clinton's campaign who was doing that. It was after all that when I realized I just couldn't vote for Sen. Clinton.

Finally, I have to say this. Having lived in DC for 10 years, I know of the silly Clinton is a lesbian rumors. I don't believe it. It's not true. While there is nothing wrong with being GLBT (I'm gay), the intent of such rumor-mongering would be clear, as it was with the Obama is a Muslim rumors. However, I can hear all of Sen. Clinton's supporters expressing extreme indignation (and they'd be absolutely correct in doing so) if Sen. Obama had pulled something similar regarding the lesbian rumors (which thankfully have not come into this campaign...BECAUSE THEY ARE FALSE)by saying "she's not a lesbian, it's silly to say so, it's awful and it's a rumor that just isn't true...as far as I know."

If he had done that, I would be equally indignant, resolutely against voting for him.

[maddiejoan]

97. How do you feel about being a Swiftboater

because none of your 'reasons' for withdrawing your support for Clinton are true.

1) The "Obama is Muslim" e-mail did NOT originate with Hillary's campaign.

2) The FACT that someone in Obama's campaign gave a wink and a nod to Canada did NOT come from Hillary's campaign at all.

3) Hillary completely answered 5 times in the 60 minutes interview that Obama was not muslim --but was hounded by the questionr so much in
the space of a minute, that the weakest part of her comment is the one used.

What you report as 'Fact" is just a part of Axelrod styled swiftboating of a great woman, and fine candidate.

[Zambero]

131. Hillary's Achilles heel

Was her vote to support Bush's war, in order to appear more "centrist". In the process she became "rightist" (and therefore wrongest). If Hillary had shown the courage and wisdom to oppose the war from day one, none of us would be having this discussion, and she would have been the certain nominee. Five years into this ill-conceived war, no Democratic candidate can hope to win the nomination with this type of baggage. A great woman indeed, but like anyone else must be willing to face up to the consequences of her actions.

[TomBall Democrat]

173. Hillary is riddled with heels

Fair or not, the Republicans in my district absolutely hate her. All these years of Clinton Bashing have become a cult of their own with the radioheads.

That's an Achille's heel NOT of her making. I agree with her supporters that it's not fair, but it's there.

Then, there's her own overkill and tendency toward secrecy. She blew the first health care round - just truly f'ed it up. Closed doors, railroad process that tanked and took the debate off the table for a decade. That's just one example of her inability to lead.

Another item not her fault is her husband's inability to keep his zipper locked. Those jokes are still around and will remain for her lifetime.

Finally, she's not a good manager. Her campaign has been mis-managed. She blew this race.

She's got an Achille's hand, not a heel.

[juno jones]

176. Even if she'd recanted the vote.

I was far more willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. I was liking Edwards as well and he voted for it. But he said those very important and heartfelt words, "I'm Sorry". And he was populist, not top-down government brought to you by corporate largesse.

If she had recanted, she might be winning now.

[FedUp_Queer]

200. Um...no (by the way, who is Axelrod?)

1) I never said the email originated from the Clinton campaign. I did say the original email came from a Clinton campaign official, and it did. It was emailed directly from a Clinton Campaign official (http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters?bid=45&pid=257119).

2) I didn't say it came from Hillary's campaign about NAFTA. What I said is that what was reported was that Obama did this, when, in fact, it was Hillary's campaign who was telling Canada to ignore her public statements. (Yet, the Clintonistas keep saying that it was Obama.)

3) As I said, I saw the interview. I saw her entire answer. Sorry, your rationalization doesn't cut it.

I have to wonder if you actually read what I wrote (my money is on you not doing so).

A great woman, eh? Perhaps. However, a great woman does not insist on maintaining a law that allows certain states to purport to ignore the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution. Finally, keep up with the innuendo and "woe is me" swiftboating charges. Facts are damn inconvenient things.

Frankly, I wish it weren't these two left in the race. On the issues, Edwards was better than both. However, after that Texas debate, I was all for either one, then the kitchen sink crap started and the "as far as I know" comment did it for me. I knew exactly what she was doing. These were the same tactics that Bill was so good it. Finally, I will give you this...on the "greatness" scale, she is heads and shoulders above Bill, probably. At least she didn't court the LGBT vote, sign DOMA in the middle of the night, then run radio ads in the south that she "preserved traditional marriage." So...no swiftboating here...just being the truthseeker I try to be.

[roguevalley]

69. fine. support her but all her shit is a stain on your hands

too. if her name was anything else she would be out. better candidates than her have had to drop out. enjoy the ride

[gateley]

194. Boy - excellent point.

"Better candidates have had to drop out."

It's the name, and the money that name attracted.

Although I must admit I've been impressed when I've seen her grilling some people in the Senate. I give her props for her intelligence and strength. But demerits for her integrity and "whatever it takes" attitude to WIN.

[TomBall Democrat]

162. Quite clear that ya'll don't give a rat's ass about anyone

All too clear.

[Hepburn]

37. The "Shame On You" call-out on Obama is the day she knew it.

I mean...she came on like a soap-opera demented mother. What an eye opener for me...I always wondered if she was as bad as I had always thought her to be. She opened her mouth and proved she was worse and proved she was a sore loser.

[goclark]

56. What about the day she admitted she donated her cash

to the campaign?

That was so telling.

How does someone that is the Experience Candidate mismanage her whole campaign?

Please keep her away from any thing on the Recession. Does she even understand that we are almost there?

[Hepburn]

74. She is just sooooooo pitiful...

...it's like every day it gets worse and she just is like an angry pit bull who will NOT let go.

[anamandujano]

86. That was not quite as pitiful as Obama donating some of his Rezko funds

to charity.

The problem is, the amounts he admits to receiving keep changing as new evidence in the trial emerges.

Will there be more donations? Will there be any funds left after he jettisons the tainted dough?

[Grinchie]

107. Waht about Peter Paul vs Hilary Clinton?? I believe that is a felony if she is convicted. NT

[druidity33]

169. Hsu anyone? nt

[Voice for Peace]

39. This thread is the best I've read in a long time, and not a single Ignore in it.

I think Hillary lost it for me pretty soon after she got into the Senate and I started seeing a lot of Bill and Bush Sr. together. There seemed to be some kind of insincere calculations going on that gave me the shivers.

[frog92969]

84. Gave me the shivers too...

and why I could never trust her.

[me b zola]

40. K&R

[TwilightGardener]

41. Wow. I have not read a better summary yet, than this. Excellent.

[Swamp Rat]

45. Mark Penn and Howard Wolfsen have destroyed Hilllary Clinton's campaign.

She should have fired them long ago.

Alas, it is too late now. :(

[madrchsod]

50. it`s not about experience--it`s judgements

so far she has failed in her blind acceptance of her advisors and her staff doing what is best for her. she had a 20 pt lead over obama and blew the whole dam thing in iowa...

[Swamp Rat]

53. I am trying to be nice.

;)

OOPS!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2rtBUfc6YA&feature=related

[ClayZ]

65. What chivalry!

:rofl:

[Swamp Rat]

75. LOL! Ok. No more new pics of any Dems.

I'll only concentrate on McMaverick from now on. :)

[NoFederales]

132. Ewwwwwwww, this could be an Ebay fundraiser--be careful. nt

NoFederales

[Spiffarino]

62. You said it.

They are the worst since Bob "0-for-9" Shrum. They started the campaign as if it were a given that Clinton would be the nominee, then had no come-from-behind strategy. Instead of becoming cohesive their message became scattered and they tanked. Finally, in desperation they threw every brick, rock and bottle they had at Obama. Now he's foundering along with her.

Great job, guys. :grr:

[merh]

47. this is spot on ...

... either way, that is the Clintons' legacy, once again: making it harder for Democrats other than themselves to gain power, whether in the Congress in the 1990s, or in this year's presidential election.

[Jackpine Radical]

118. The Clintons have no coattails.

They proved it when Bill was in office and they lost Congress in '94, lost further ground in '96, and they salted the ground for Gore in 2000--and Hill will do it all again if given the chance. We'll lose our Congressional majority in the Senate in 2010, and lose the House by 2012.

[VotesForWomen]

57. i heard O can't win unless hill drops out. doesn't sound like quite the 'slam dunk' victory that

O-ists would have us believe it is. perhaps that explains their desperation.

[emilyg]

66. Right on.

[roguevalley]

73. god, he's already won. read the millions of analyses out

there. this feels like global warming debunking.

My nephew was in Bosnia when Hillary was there. He actually was in harms way. She wasn't. This offends me the same way it offends veterans when someone pretends to be military.

[anamandujano]

88. Correct. The endless cries for her to quit show they know they have

far to go and may not even make it.

I think she's going to win.

[Grinchie]

109. Good luck! But do your own research

[DrFunkenstein]

106. Clawing to The Doorway As They Drag Her Out

I can't wait to have her return to representing the good people of New York. Hopefully, once her Presidential ambitions tamp down a little, she'll start legislating with her heart instead of her calculations.

[TomBall Democrat]

158. No desperation here. Sorry to disappoint.

I knew Obama would be the next President when I heard him speak in Austin, Texas Feb 2007.

And he will be.

YES, WE CAN.

The time is now.

It is not over, Dems. Time to stop fighting each other - and fight the true war.

CHOOSE HOPE.

[Oslo]

190. I beleive GOOD will PREVAIL

Yes we can!
GoBama!
Hillary's negativity has/will run out of gas. Negativity only breeds negativity. A plant can't grow in the dark, only remain dormant or die.

[me b zola]

59. Obama **is** the presumptive Democratic nominee!

:kick:

[ClayZ]

67. The "Fat Lady" is opening the songbook....

K and R

[grantcart]

76. Floundering since Iowa -

Iowa the only place to actually put her in third place.

Want to redo the primary system and make it simpler


Right now I would say give the whole job to Iowa.


Texas finsished her off.

[Stardust]

82. Hill and Bill don't give a flying fuck about their marriage. This is *not*

about that. If anything, it's penis wars. (figuratively speaking, sorta):D

[FrenchieCat]

83. Whatever it is, I don't want any part of it, and I certainly don't want my

children paying for it.

This is about the Supreme Court and shit. And there goes Hillary only caring herself. That's what makes me detest her. She really doesn't give a flying fuck about this country....obviously.

[Jakes Progress]

152. Didn't Last

I'm new here. Joined the day I read your piece about Obama's speech and how inspiring it was and how you were choosing to do it his way - the uniting and getting along way. So sad to see that that didn't last long. I thought there was some hope in that post. But I see that Barack's speech was ephemeral and now it is back to normal - dividing and hating.

[marshall]

103. I bet she's kicking herself in the pantsuit that she didn't get a divorce

Separate from him and run as Hillary Rodham, on her own (albeit feeble) merits rather than riding on his coattails. She would have had a better chance--especially considering Bill's numerous and possibly subconsciously intentional gaffes that undermined her efforts.
I do feel sorry for her--she stayed in what was probably a horrible marriage, at least on a personal level, and this is the payoff she was expecting. And it ain't happenin'.

[PassingFair]

165. Like a New York Senate seat wasn't payoff enough...n/t

[BumRushDaShow]

93. K&R... Like some earlier posters I also thought she was conceding

when she made her "I am honored" remark at the end of that debate.

But it appears some demon possessed her and she did a 180, unleashing the kitchen sink. Don't know if the demon was Bill or Mark but all it did was unveil a side of her that is getting uglier and uglier and very bitter. Even her own supporters earlier claimed she was being manipulated and the "real her" was being suppressed. But then if she is that gullible and beholden to her handlers, that doesn't bode well for someone who should be elected to run this country.

[sniffa]

94. She lost on Super Tuesday

That's when her campaign effectively died - no plan, no money, no organization for the next 11 states.

[southern_belle]

95. k & r

[Vinca]

96. I've been hoping an Easter miracle might happen and she'd rethink

the campaign over the weekend and come to her senses. She must know the only way she can get the nomination is to convince superdelegates to reject the candidate with the most votes. If the numbers were reversed, Obama would have been drummed out of the race after the 11 straight wins.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

104. Enough with the big rallies

That was it for me - whining sour grapes because she can't draw the crowds Obama can. Ewww. Instead of figuring out why Obama IS drawing the crowds and maybe learning from it, she decides to cry foul about it. Yeah, great Presidential tone there.

[C_U_L8R]

110. The day she cried

Up to that point I thought I'd be happy with any dem.
It what Hillary said while crying that disgusted me... it was
so contrived, manipulative and ugly. I don't want a person
like that anywhere near the White House... any more.

[Unbowed]

111. Why on earth is she staying in the race?

It doesn't make much sense.

Say "goodnight" Hillary.

[IsItJustMe]

114. To me anyway, the day she lost it was when she started elevating McCain over Obama. Sad indeed.

[Patriot Abroad]

141. It was a sour grapes moment indeed . . .

[NC_Nurse]

123. I knew long ago. What took her so long?

Her level of denial is pretty amazing. Kinda like Bush thinking we're all behind his war, and the economy's fine,
and God's on his side, etc.

[Zambero]

124. It's time to face up to reality

Time is precious, funds are precious, and much is at stake. The Republicans are off to a running start and pursuing party unity. Undecided Independents need to be brought into the Democratic camp. We need to set our sights to winning in November. Hillary has a LOT of fence mending to do, and the best thing she could do at this point is to exit the race and throw her full support to the imminent nominee. Otherwise, her persistent path to certain defeat (hers and the ticket) will prove to be as much help to turning this country around as Joe Lieberman has been.

[Jakes Progress]

128. Quoting Huff????

Boy has DU ever fallen. Using that place as any kind of source is pathetic. Talk about using the word of the League of Rove.


I have been looking or a serious site where I could discuss the pros and cons of both candidates with some sense of reality. HuffPo lost it weeks ago. Friends told me that DU might still be a working site - but it certainly isn't now. Just bomb-throwing partisans who know or show little real knowledge of what is happening. Everything is filtered through a personality contest. A lot of "my guy will beat your guy - BooYah!!!".


There is a lot of talk (and that's all it really is) about how Obama attracts the educated crowd and Clinton appeals to the ignorant. From what I can see on these posts, the main reason that the republicans are always in charge is that the majority of Democrats are just dumb. The neoCons have taken over our web site and churned up mass idiocy. I see little difference between the partisan crap here and the frat boy support for George. Every post that talks about Obamamites or HillBots should be marked as troll food. Either the average age of a DU'er is 16 with an emotional IQ of 8 or 75% of the posts here are neocon trolls.


On occasion I see a post that tries to remind DU'ers of what is at stake and urge civility and maturity. It lasts about two hours and gets slammed and spun into shots at both candidates again. All this seems to point to is that we will just have to get used to a permanent republican administration.

[Faygo Kid]

135. Welcome to DU. You and Bill O'Reilly.

Bill O'Reilly shares your view of the Huffington site.

So pleased to have you lecture us here with your fifth post.

You are free to take it elsewhere. Goodbye.

[Jakes Progress]

146. So experience is what counts?

Is that the theme you want to run with? I see the Huff is strong with this one.

If you don't see that the cult of the clan for both Hillary and Barack has cheapened the level of discussion, then you are a part of the problem. You post great big pictures and tell people to get out of your private party. That is exactly the opposite of the kind of behavior that Barack talks about. He seeks to unite and you want to divide. He seeks inclusion, you ask for exclusion. Just why do you support a candidate whose principles and positions you so ardently disagree with?

Your post is proof of my premise.

[gateley]

196. I happen to think you make sense and some good observations on

some -- not all -- of your statements.

I think many of us would agree that the level of discussion has been cheapened. But man, you should have seen it when ALL the candidates were still in the running! :7 All that enthusiasm and ardent support (which is great!) is focused on just the two now.

Anyway, welcome to DU. There are wonderful people here and I have faith that when we do get a nominee, we'll all come together and direct our attention to winning the GE.

:hi:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

136. So much understanding in 8 days.

:patriot:

[Jakes Progress]

148. How long does it take to read a comic book?

[L0oniX]

153. You just signed up to DU and your an expert already? Geesh ..not another self important cynic...

we have too many of those already. Did you join up to put down DU? Well thanks for contributing to the negativity with your post.

[Jakes Progress]

168. Sorry. New here.

Didn't know that opinions from outside the groupthink were forbidden. Reading here I think I get it now. Let's see if I have this right.

"Golly gee. All the DU people are so wise and so cool. We like having no negativity. (Unless it's the right kind. You know, directed at you know who.) I'm just here for the gang and hope those who have thousands of snarky posts will let me play if I can only learn the rules about who to hate and who to love and how to kiss ass."

Sure that's easy. Reminds me of my favorite bumper sticker. "Vote Republican: It's easier than thinking"

[Eric J in MN]

133. When pundits read-the-minds of candidates...

...they are never proven right and never proven wrong.

(a point Bob Somerby of The Daily Howler has made)

[Celebration]

139. Hey, guys, campaigns are STRESSFUL

After all, don't you know people that get mean when under stress?

Give her a break. :sarcasm:

[Divine Discontent]

143. that could be!

all I know is that the negative tone her hubby and her took really made me dislike hearing the word "Clinton". This latest attack, not-so-surprisingly done by the former president once again, smacks at Obama as not being patriotic and not respecting and honoring America. We are all imperfect, and had I heard him say that in person, I would have had a hard time not saying, "and you upheld that respect for the Oval Office with that young intern?"

He really has a lot of nerve. Once a hero, now someone I think did a 'good' job as president, but we can do far better in this country.

[tedrick8]

150. Endorsing McCain was jumping the shark

The Clinton's are so overwhelmingly negative. She jumped the shark for me when she endorsed McCain over Obama in the General. I wonder if she'll even campaign for McCain. It's so obvious she's trying to destroy Obama in the general so she can try again in 2012. If she does manage to commandeer the nomination. I won't vote for her. She has a flawed character and no loyalty to the Democratic Party. If she wants to divide the party, then go ahead. Good luck getting Obama's 5 million new registered voters. She does need us if she does get the nomination, you'd think she'd be a little nicer.

The only good thing about letting McCain kill her in the General Election is that the stupid DLC would be eviscerated. A democratic congress (minus DLC influence) would be easier to keep McCain out of Iran. Hillary would invade Iran the second week of her Presidency (just to prove her manhood).

[AntiFascist]

145. 'that typically defiant "I'll drag you all down with me" Clinton way'

:rofl:

I can imagine such a presidency.

[Prophet 451]

149. It was when she praised McCain

I still don't think Hillary would be a terrible president but the only way she can win now is to talk enough superdelegates into overturning the popular vote. Whether her campaign would be able to do that is unknown but it would almost certainly lead to a Dem loss as a good portion of Obama's supporters would then stay home on election day.

Why she's still in the campaign know that, I don't know. Perhaps her decision is entirely self-serving, perhaps she knows something we don't, perhaps she geuinely believes that Obama would be such a disaster that McCain would be a better choice.

[L0oniX]

154. She never had a chance to get my vote.

The Clinton's moved the party to the right and contributed to the lost of Dem seats in the house. That's what did it for me.

[TomBall Democrat]

174. Agreed.

I thought she was far left than he, but it seems not so.

What was it that Ann Richards repeated in her Convention speech about Bush I?

It's time for him to go!

Modify a pronoun, and we may have a new slogan here.


P.S. Maybe it was Al Gore? Can't remember now? Must be getting old.

[ooglymoogly]

155. For me the day I first began to lose what little faith in Hill I had, was the bankrupts bill

After first voting for the bill and catching a lot of flack from supporters; Then, the second time around I watched the tote board particularly to see Hill's vote. There were of course the usual suspects, the nitwit Nelsons, Joe Blubberman and the rest of the blue dogs. I watched as Hill not yet voting, waltzing around the floor chatting with like minds until the bill had safely passed and then was one of the last to vote knowing her vote was now useless and she could safely vote against the bill showing her supporters that she was still a dem. Yet I still gave her the benefit of the doubt to some extent, until as one poster put it "she jumped the shark" and endorsed Mc Cain, the last straw. She is the pugs fall back. She is not one of us.

[TomBall Democrat]

164. The more I learned about Hillary, the less I liked her

A year ago, I thought I'd be all for her.

Then, I started my process. Same one every presidential election.

Did not like what I learned. The corporate backers, the war vote, the secretive processes, the poor financial management, the lies, the poor personal skills (she irritates more than motivates). And I'm pretty damn tired of the Bush Clinton Bush shit. One more Clinton is two too many for me.

Thought, who the hell do I support? Looked around, remembered the guy who gave the great speech. He came to Austin - so did I. And I thought, different, maybe too different - but why not?

Why not support someone who talks about we, the people. Not me, the candidate.

Who put together the tightest, best run campaign I have ever seen. So he can manage, too.

Still, I thought Hillary had the best interests of the country at heart. I no longer believe she does. I never thought I'd agree with Barbara Bush on anything - but turns out, I share her opinion of Hillary.

[TheDeathadder]

157. Oh god another lame thread based off

another lame huffington post article. How many of these "The Day Hillary Clinton Knew She Had Lost"

Man you guys are really going to be pissed when after Clinton wins Penn the party rallies behind here and Obama goes away.

[WillyT]

159. Well Hey... Thanks For Kicking It !!!

:evilgrin:

[TheDeathadder]

201. yeah dude I'm kicking it

you're a devil face...whatever

[TomBall Democrat]

163. Ooooh, I'm so scared....

:P

You're using the wrong toolbox, friend.


Fear belongs in the red box marked Republican.

Look around for the blue box - we'll make room for you on the winning team, friend.

When, you're ready to stop playing for the whiners.

[TheDeathadder]

202. I'm not your friend

you don't have friends

nor do you know anything about politics

[tedrick8]

179. If Obama goes away- so do his newly registered voters and the african american voting block

Are you going to be pissed if she commandeers the nomination and we leave her in the cold in the general election? Seems to me she doesn't really want my vote. And she did endorse McCain. Who am I to question her judgment? If we watch her loose she will have less impact than John Kerry. If she wins we have to plead with her to actually be a democrat. And she will invade Iran!

[WillyT]

180. Welcome To DU, tedrick8 !!!

:toast::bounce::toast:

Glad ta have ya aboard!!!

:hi:

[tedrick8]

209. Thank You!

[TheDeathadder]

203. bye bye to both voters

bye bye to your vote

hello to a true democrat winning the white house. I guess she's a typical american president.

[Ken Burch]

182. Well, since those developments would mean we'd be doomed to defeat in the fall

Any REAL Democrat would be pissed.

HRC CAN'T beat McCain and all of you know it. Why are you so determined to force us to go with a sure loser?

You're like Humphrey supporters in Chicago.

There's no reason for us to nominate the less popular AND more conservative candidate. And it's immoral to nominate a candidate who encourages working-class whites to hate and fear blacks(which is what her whole strategy against Obama has been).

Her strategy also guarantees that African Americans would be totally out in the cold in a HRC administration. You can't attack a constituency during the campaign and then do anything positive for it when in power.

[TheDeathadder]

204. you know nothing

you are by far not a real democrat. I'm insulted for not only the Democratic party but for the human race that you actually think you know a thing about politics.

Obama's a loser...LET IT STINK!!!! (The chant of the Obamas - the pseudo democratic party)

[tedrick8]

210. If she gets the nomination will she say "I'll give you all 40 acres and a mule!"

I agree with you, It's very sad if she wins the nomination. African Americans will stay home in droves! She can't win without that voting block. The only thing that will be slightly amusing would be the patronizing drivel that she cares and really isn't a racist. She just had to be one to get the nomination. I can give you all 40 acres and a mule!

[proud2BlibKansan]

166. For me it was the day she as much as endorsed McCain

Holding his experience up above Obama's.

Still makes me want to puke remembering it.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

172. I agree with other posters that Super Tuesday was the swan song.

[Rene]

183. hogwash !!!

[WillyT]

185. BatPoop !!!

Just thought I'd play along.

:evilgrin:

[billbuckhead]

186. Hillary's soulless empty suit of an opponent is the most unelectable Dem since McGovern

Needs 70% of Hispanics to win? Welcome to President McCain.

[WillyT]

188. Seek Help, Please ???

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odWuWdlYZFA

I beg ya.

:hippie:

[better tomorrow]

191. She knew she lost the day she cried.......

I think she cried because she knew then she had lost and couldn't handle the thought of all her hard work going out the window....I did feel for her that day...but, just for a little while.

[Life Long Dem]

192. Super Tuesday. Go for broke day.

[tekisui]

193. And now, The Well's Run Dry.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OZQ1vFCmoI

[WillyT]

195. Thank You For That !!!

Jammin to it now!

:hi:

[catgirl]

208. Kicking for more Obama endorsements!