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Left Unspoken: The REAL Mind-Boggler

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tucsonlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:22 AM
Original message
Left Unspoken: The REAL Mind-Boggler
I've pretty much stayed out of the Obama/Clinton debate. Maybe that's because I'm still plagued with this nagging question: How the HELL did it come to this? Did anyone of you ever imagine that we'd be reduced to arguing about which of the remaining two Democratic candidates might have a BETTER CHANCE of beating John McCain? ANY ONE of the other original candidates - Edwards, Richardson, Biden, Dodd, Gravel or, yes, Kucinich would have been a shoo-in in November. Instead, we're left with having to choose between the two weakest, most vulnerable possible nominees. Clinton has always been the Republicans' dream opponent. Obama, though more problematic, was always their second choice. Aided and abetted by the DLC and the Corporate Media, the Republicans have already ensured that, whoever "wins" in November, it will be business as usual. The war will go on for years. Forget about universal health care. No repeal of NAFTA. Or of the Patriot Act. Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice et al will never be held accountable for their crimes.
Yes, I'll be casting my vote for the Democratic nominee, whoever he or she may be. But I fear I will be pissing into the wind......
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. Sorry, I kept getting those typical white guys mixed up
:hide:
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
2. You've got a point...
Take the two groups, and the two constituencies--women and blacks--who are the biggest supporters of the Democratic Party, and get them fighting like cats and dogs, and hurling charges of sexism and racism at each other, and watch the Democratic Party nuke itself.

Designed by Karl Rove and Diebold? Ya think?

I've certainly had that dreadful feeling raising hairs on the back of my neck for about a month now. Eliminate unity candidate Edwards (who talks like FDR), and leave standing the first major woman candidate for president--a woman who supported the war--a combo designed to turn her supporters into screeching lunatics, trying, on the one hand, to gain some protection for women's rights by electing a woman president, but having to, on the other hand, defend her war votes--and furthermore, a woman who seems to act like a fingernail on the blackboard to the wingnuts of the corporate airwaves--and pit her against a black candidate, who has a preacher who can be selectively quoted to sound like Louis Farrakian, and program the "trade secret" vote counting software to keep them about even, in what should be a blow-away Democratic year, so that ambitions and tempers and tactics are at fever pitch...

...and watch the fun, from your remote bunker somewhere in Virginia, air conditioned by DynCorp.

It is a compelling nightmare. I really don't know if it's true. Could be. The global corporate predators who are running things certainly have the capability--the near totally non-transparent voting system, with the code owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations, and total of control of national political imagery and sound bites. Choose two ambitious people who are not the best candidates, who are merely plausible candidates, select them for sex and color, and destroy the Democratic base by pushing its two great strengths into a war against each other.

Some things that argue against such a manipulation:

Obama's caucus wins--not tallied by Diebold & brethren.

Obama's supporters--truly a phenomeon--inspired, activated citizens.

This surprised everybody. Clinton was the global corporate predators' designated DLC hitter. She had a massive campaign chest, going in. She has a famous name, associated with previous economic good times. She has Bill, whose numbers actually went up, during the Ken Starr inquisition. She was the "chosen one"--either lamb to the McBush slaughter, or Hoover for Great Depression II--the way to put the blame for Bush's disasters on the Democrats for four years (to be followed by worse, much worse, in 2012). Clinton was a sure thing for the nomination, either way. A year ago, I would have have put money on her nomination and 'election.' I predicted it here, along with what I thought it would mean (four years of civil disorder and Darth Vader cops, followed by Hitler II.)

Ted Kennedy (my litmus test for what is good and what is bad in our national political scene) endorsed Obama, leading me to believe that Obama is a genuine, unbought and paid for challenger of the Democratic Party pro-war, pro-corporate establishment, and the national war profiteer/global corporate predator powers. The risk is very great, to these establishments, that a relatively independent candidate like Obama would actually inspire sufficient hope among the deliberately demoralized and disenfranchised American people, to overcome the 5%-10% Diebold handicap, blow the machines out of the water, and elect a president who is beholden to the people. Would they take that risk--and, say, Diebold the South Carolina primary (100% totally non-transparent voting system), to give him a boost against Hillary, just to enjoy the mid-wrestling, and to be able to hoot and holler as the Democratic Party destroys itself?

There is something genuine about Obama that cannot be denied. Even if you don't trust Ted Kennedy (--and I don't trust him 100%, frankly, because he's never said anything about the voting machines). But Obama would not be the first relatively honest politician who got used by the bad guys to, ultimately, promote the bad guys' goals. (John Kerry comes to mind.)

We are reduced to reading entrails, trying to figure out what's really going on with our government. We have been made easy prey to confusion and paranoia, as we ride the rollercoaster of hope, from stolen election to stolen election. As I said, I DON'T KNOW if this women vs. blacks nightmare manipulation is reality or not. But it is certainly telling that we don't know, and can't know. It is, in fact, appalling--that the votes are 'counted' by mystery electronics, out of of public view, that the corporate "news" cannot be trusted on any matter, and that what the people want (for instance, 60+ to 70% opposed to the war and wanting it ended--an unprecedented, epochal anti-war majority) is simply not relevant, while the cost of a presidential candidate's hairdo, or whether they're showing tits, or where they go to church, fills the headlines and the airwaves.

We don't know, and can't know--and that is the problem.
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tucsonlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Excellent Perspective!
My suspicions (paranoid fantasies?) arose early in the primaries. Every (and I do mean every) Democrat I spoke with placed Hillary Clinton way down on their list of "best candidates". So how was she racking up all those wins? Who ordained her as the front runner? (But then, maybe it's just the crowd I hang out with.)
My nightmare is similar to yours, but instead of "watching the fun from a remote bunker somewhere in Virginia, air conditioned by DynCorp", I see the whole motley crew laughing it up in their Paraguayan compound......
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Interesting subject--Paraguay. They've got a presidential election this year,
and the lead candidate (way ahead in the polls) is the beloved "bishop of the poor," Fernando Lugo, who, if elected, would likely join the Bolivarian revolution, whose goals are social justice and regional self-determination. The lead Bolivarian countries--all hated by the Bush junta--are Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia and Argentina. Paraguay borders two of them--Bolivia and Argentina. Paraguay is also a country with a U.S. air base (near the 200,000 acres the Bush Cartel are rumored to have purchased), and also near--and this may be critical--the eastern, gas/oil rich provinces of Bolivia, where there is a white separatist movement to split their provinces off from the central government of Evo Morales--the first indigenous president of Bolivia (in a largely indigenous country)--in order to deny benefit of the gas/oil resources to the poor majority. Paraguay may thus have strategic importance to what I think is a plan for Oil War II, orchestrated by Donald Rumsfeld (yup, him) to regain global corporate predator control of the Andes oil fields (mostly in Venezuela and Ecuador, some in Argentina--big find, recently). The split up of Bolivia would cause a major fracas in the region, and possible destabilization, and even war. The Bushites are backing the white separatists, and if that group of rich racists and fascist thugs declares their "independence" this May (which I think is likely), and requests U.S. military support (which I think Rumsfeld is pushing Bush to give them), that support would likely land in Paraguay and enter Bolivia though the back door.

One other item of note: Ecuador's Bolivarian president, Rafael Correa, has pledged not to renew the lease for the U.S. air base in Manta, Ecuador, when it comes up for renewal in 2009. And, given the use of that U.S. base for the recent U.S./Colombian bombing and incursion into Ecuador near the Colombian border--which has infuriated Correa for a number of reasons--he could ask them to leave sooner. This would reduce Rumsfeld's strategic options, and enhance the importance of the U.S. base in Paraguay.

Paraguay is currently run by a long-entrenched, center/right power elite. And most of its people are extremely poor. It has almost no resources (hydro-electric power is about the only export). And I don't think it has the racial problem that Bolivia has. (Europeans and indigenous intermarried more, in Paraguay.) But it's interesting that they've been playing both sides, in the Bolivarian vs. Bushite struggle--no doubt feeling pressure from the left (at home, and abroad in South America, which is mostly leftist now--including Brazil, Uruguay, Chile and Nicaragua, as well as the Bolivarian leaders, Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia and Argentina). For instance, Paraguay joined the Bank of the South (a Venezuelan-inspired project to keep loans local, and to drive the World Bank/IMF loan sharks out of the region--which it is successfully doing). And I believe that Paraguay (under Bolivarian pressure) rescinded their immunity law for U.S. military personnel (not 100% sure of this).

What I'm saying is that the Bushite hee-hawers might not be so welcome in Paraguay--especially if Fernando Lugo wins the election. But even if he doesn't, the Bushites are persona non-grata almost everywhere in South America. It would not endear Paraguay to the other countries, to harbor such a malicious, trouble-making crew, and it might well jeopardize their status for things like loans and regional trade deals. Furthermore, the Bushites would not "retire." They would be there to make war--for Exxon Mobil & brethren--to get back the oil fields that they think are their birthright. And if my analysis of the situation is correct, the Bushites intend to start Oil War II this year, before Bush leaves office. If they are hated now--for all the evil they've committed in the big world, and all they've tried to do, to topple good, democratic governments in South America, and to lavishly support wretched fascists like those running Colombia--they would be facing relentless opposition to their presence in Paraguay, if they started an oil war (by supporting division of Bolivia, or by incursions into Ecuador and Venezuela, from Colombia, or other chaos-making).
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The Night Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. Patently Ridiculous
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 04:32 PM by The Night Owl
Anyone who has watched Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama during the course of the presidential campaign so far can see that Democrats have two bright and outstanding candidates.

Republicans only wish for the kind of problem Democrats have right now. The Democratic party is divided about which candidate is the best candidate. The Republican party is divided between people who think that John McCain is a decent candidate and people who hate John McCain.

I happen to think that Hillary Clinton is the best candidate for the Democratic party to put forward, but you know what? If Barack Obama is the Democratic nominee for president, I will still be very happy.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Agreed. Some DUers should get awy from their computers for a while.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. "Democrats have two bright and outstanding candidates."
And THAT is the truth
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. Wait... You think Gravel would have been a shoo-in?
But Clinton and Obama are weaker? Weaker than Gravel?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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