What the HELL gives ANY of us the right to act this way?

[JTG of the PRB]

What the HELL gives any of us the right to act this way? Give me ONE damned good reason for the type of insanity we’ve been seeing here! Just ONE reason will satisfy me!

Don’t try too hard, folks. None of you will be able to come up with a single good reason for any us to be acting like this toward each other. Did you guys suddenly forget WHO we are? We’re Democrats! The social progressives! We’re the ones who want to bring change to this country! We’re the ones who are trying to erase eight long YEARS of frustration and cheating and lying and spying and dying! And what do we do? We run around like a bunch of hyper children with no babysitter to keep tabs on us!

Listen up, because I’m talking to every single person in here! Hillary Clinton supporters, tune in! Barack Obama supporters, open up your ears! Every last one of you just stop for one damned minute and listen to yourselves:

“Barack Obama and George W. Bush - Brothers in Voter Disenfranchisement”

“Hillary wouldn't be where she was if Bill wasn't her husband. It's the sad truth and I think she's hurting women in the long run.”

“We need to coalesce around Hillary now. Anyone opposing her as the Democratic nominee is tacitly supporting McCain.”

“You can only lie to support Hillary. If you can't provide any evidence, I'm going to assume it doesn't exist and thus you are wrong.”

“The phrase ‘hypocritical fucking scumbag’ is thrown around lightly these days, but I think Senator Obama has earned it with this one.”

You know what all this reminds me of? Republicans. That’s right, we sound like a bunch of fucking Republicans sometimes! Calling supports of Candidate X liars. Calling supporters of Candidate Y hypocrites. Remember 2004? Remember everything the Bushies did to make sure we lost the election? Remember how they swiftboated our candidate, lied and cheated and stole yet another election from under our noses?

Remember how they tried to terrify us, how they tried to belittle us, how they insulted our dignity and our honor and everything that WAS good and decent with our country just in order to “win” four more years with their finger on the button and their ears against our bedroom doors and their cameras peeking into ever corner of our lives? Do you REMEMBER that?

Well, maybe we should all get used to it. Because if this constant bullshit continues any longer from BOTH the Hillary and the Obama supporters, we’re going to get more of just that. Four more years of treachery. Four more years of war. Four more years of saber-rattling, nation-threatening, innocence-killing, privacy-invading, Constitution-shredding “leadership.”

President John McCain.

Let that sink in for just a second, would you?

President. John. Fucking. McCain.

Because that’s where we’re headed if we can’t get our act together. You know who would make a good President? Anybody but JOHN FUCKING MCCAIN!

I won’t lie. I support Barack Obama. I think he is our best chance. But does that mean I wouldn’t vote for Hillary Clinton? Hell no. I want Obama in the White House. I would be happy with Hillary Clinton.

You know why? Because neither Obama nor Clinton is JOHN FUCKING MCCAIN.

You guys want to debate? Please do. You guys want to argue? Go right ahead. But let’s stop with all this bullshit about Candidate X is a liar and a traitor, and Candidate Y is a hypocrite and a loser. Either one of them would be better than JOHN FUCKING MCCAIN!

We’re all Democrats here. This IS the Democratic Underground, right? I didn’t stumble into some parallel universe over the last three months, did I? We need to stop this infighting because if we don’t, we’re never going to have a chance of winning the general election in November.

We need to come together and we need to do it VERY quickly. In case you hadn’t noticed, John Fucking McCain now as all the time in the world to build his support amongst supporters of the other major political party in our system. We’re still bickering back and forth about who we’re going to send to represent us and try and win back the highest office in the land so we can start fixing everything Bush and all his cronies fucked up over the last eight years.

Let’s calm the fuck down and think rationally. Would we rather have a Democrat in the White House on January 20, 2009, or would we like to see John Fucking McCain taking that oath on the steps of the Capitol?

This is the Democratic Underground. We need to start acting like we want to win this election and stop the madness that has plagued this country the last four years. If you’re okay with John Fucking McCain becoming President because the candidate YOU wanted didn’t win the nomination, let me suggest a website for you to visit:

http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/focus/tag/news-forum/

I’m sure the Freepers would LOVE to watch some of us help destroy our own party.

That’s all. You may now flame away. If I offended you, well, I guess you’ll just have to deal.

[Johnny__Motown]

1. Here is one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZsYWiywdCA&feature=related

[JTG of the PRB]

2. That gives us the right to act like a bunch of unmitigated assholes to one another?

That's not good enough.

[Johnny__Motown]

3. I'm sorry, but I feel anything that can be done to stop that type of thing must be done

(within the law of course)


IMO she is harming the party more than any of the mindless bloggers on a left wing message board. Nobody listens to us other than us. There have been a few posts read on radio programs and placed on cable news shows but those are oddities at best.


I am not condoning the rudeness or the level to which this board has sunk. I am just saying we need to stop the "bloodying up" of our nominee.

[JTG of the PRB]

4. I agree with you fully.

But my point is about the way we're treating each other and how it's affecting us as people. We're calling each other names. We're harassing one another. There is absolutely no excuse for this sort of thing amongst a bunch of people who are SUPPOSED to represent the liberal, socially progressive part of our society. We're all acting like a bunch of trolls on here at times.

I personally think Obama would make a better President, but I'd still much, MUCH rather see Hillary Clinton in the White House than John Fucking McCain. We need to keep our eyes on the prize or we're going to lose it all.

[Johnny__Motown]

10. We get angry, we lash out... that does not make it right but it is normal

You know as well as I do that there have been other things said about Sen. Obama by the Clintons that are also unacceptable. (Bill's comment about 2 candidates that love this country is the most recent).

You can blame us for our reactions or you can blame the events that caused those reactions. The choice is yours.

[musicblind]

23. Dunno, I'm surrounded by the same events, but for the most part

I don't have those reactions. The events my upset me, but lashing out at people does no good. I do not lash unless someone is rude to me specifically. Then I will may or may not get a harsh tone when talking to that particular person and that is only if they sent ME an individual message making an intentionally mean or hurtful comment. This is rare. I think people need to learn some anger management. Chill, you know I understand it's upsetting. Feeling upset means you care about this country, and I respect that, but in the long run it's just not that big of a deal. What IS a big deal is 8 more years of republican rule if we fuck this one up.

[emilyg]

7. "Our nominee"

Did I miss something?

[Johnny__Motown]

11. Yes, the math. Obama has won. Clinton has lost, deal with it and move on

[CatnHat]

19. But Obama can't win in GE

that's the bottom line.

[ThatBozGuy]

22. And your guess is no better than mine that would say he can.

You have no idea what the general will be, if you do please enlighten us how so we can all be rich.

[Blue-Jay]

26. Prove it, Shit-Hat.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

31. This type of blanket statement, in effect prophesying, is exactly the type of behavior

that causes the shit flinging. You have no crystal ball, no proof to back up the statement, no money invested in this site. Stop making false statements that have no shred of credibility. It serves no purpose other than to disrupt.

[musicblind]

25. No, you HOPE Obama has won, and you would like that to be the case. The chances are more likely

than not that he will win. But until a winner is declared... no one has won, because the winner of the pledged delegates is not the winner over all. The winner over all will be decided by superdelegates and they do not have to decide for some time. The odds are very good for Obama, but we do not know what may happen between now and the time those delegates decide. Try and look at it this way. One player is far ahead in the game. But you wouldn't END the game because they other player has a steep up hill climb to make. Hillary technically COULD win 70% in every state. Let's say Obama had some big disaster that changed the whole nation's eyes. It could happen, and if it did happen then Hillary would certainly win. It is unfair to the Hillary supporters to try and push her out when she has not lost and has some chance of winning this. She is still preferred over Obama by 47%/44% (something like that) of all democrats. Obama has a great chance of winning this, and if he does I hope he wins the GE, because he would make a great president too. But it is unfair to try and stop the game before it is over. The finish line has not been reached. You don't make a person leave the poker table just because they have the short stack and it would take heavy luck for them to turn that around. You can NOT assume what the superdelegates do until they do it. As a person with a degree in psychology... you can never assume what ANYONE will do if you do not know the circumstances in which they do it. It is wrong to try and force Clinton out just like it was unfair of certain people to try and push Edwards out so early on. Let it play out. Hillary should have never made her comments about McCain, but the race is not over until there is a nominee declared. If it were over, Skinner (the guy who runs this site) would have declared a presumptive nominee. Even he has yet to make that decision. No one has made that decision except some people on this messageboard.

[Bake]

27. Deal with this

Your boy doesn't have 2025 delegates yet, last time anybody counted.

Seems he'll need the superdelegates, just like Hillary. Deal with it.

Bake

[Gore Edwards]

43. Bush Vs Gore 2000. Deal with it.

Bush has the lead and any attempt to change that is a
violation of the equal rights protection clause of the U.S.
Constitution. But only this time. Don't hold this as precedent
in future cases. Thank you. We are ahead and really, is'nt
that all that matters? Thank you for listening.

[baldguy]

47. Hillary is campaigning to be McCains VP

[Drachasor]

5. I agree that we need a lot more civility and general respect for one another on this forum.

That name-calling and other crap is ridiculous.

[Cronus Protagonist]

14. Ironically enough, the OP wouldn't fit into your vision

:P

[Drachasor]

18. Nobody is perfect, but we can all try, eh?

[joshcryer]

6. It's the internet.

Stupid. :P

[A-Schwarzenegger]

8. Internets Anonymity?

:bluebox: :redbox: :graybox: :daily: :weekly: :tv: :radio: :web: :scared:

[Wetzelbill]

13. rock on

I gave the same answer. Basically.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

16. I gave it first, poopo head

:radio: :+ :scared:

[rucky]

46. At least you use your real name.

but you really should spend less time on the boards and more time governating.

[Swamp Rat]

9. I don't give fuck what uncle-fucking freeptards think.

I only care about THIS echo chamber. :D

[Wetzelbill]

12. It's the tubes! over the anonymity of the tubes people get to be crazy

without the repurcussions they would have in real life. Nobody would act like that in person. Not really. They'd get thrown in jail or maced so often most people would tone down or get committed. Or join the Republican Party. Oh snap.

[musicblind]

30. That is true. It made a post a few weeks back about this. It reminds me of The Lord of The Flies

Each time I come here I get the image of the boys killing Piggy, or shoving a hog's head on the end of a stick. William Golding was traumatized by war and wrote the Lord of the Flies as an explanation of his belief in humanity. He claimed that humans were all evil inside and the only thing holding them away from murderous, greedy, filthy chaos is social structure and the legal system. No good deed is done for the sake of doing it, they all done in hopes of receiving rewards... be those rewards "gratitude", "self realization", "money", "not being thrown in jail" and so on. I agree with him. We are all beasts on the inside. Look at a person who drives by and flips you off as they pass your car. I have never seen someone pass a worker's cubical and flip that worker off while screaming "SO LONG SUCKER!" Yet I make a typo in a neutral comment laughing a photo of James Carville and a poster decides to call me out, ridicule me, and tell me how "the dictionary is my friend." All I said was "that picture looks erie" and spelled eerie with one e by mistake? Who would act that way in real life???

I wrote a song about this belief. The first verse went:

William Golding had it right
our insides are as black as night
without the law society is dead

Freud decipher Lennon's gun
we love to f--k with everyone
but no one ever f--ks with the Id.

[ThatBozGuy]

15. I think gcomeau said it well, we are fighting against the RW attack of Ms Clintons worst

Supporters against the Democratic Nominee.
Please note I am not saying all of Ms Clintons supporters because most of those that are not just anti Obama for the sake of being anti Obama or just enjoy the fight for a candidate they cant even tell you why they support her have moved on and for the most part its the partisan that are left. The people that would fight to fight no matter what.

Many of their strongest have gotten so desperate that they have stepped WAY over the lines and been TSed the rest have moved on to more friendly climates of external support boards for Ms Clinton.

I think gcomeau said so much better than I am here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5217627

We can justify the fight of fire with fire for the Democratic fall success and no form of going RW can be justified from either camp but I guarantee you much of it is desperation from what any one would say is the vocal minority and all you have to do is look at who by their own admission is the minority here.

Just look at the two Candidate groups and you can see exactly where the anger and villainy is coming from and this why the lashing out is happening.

Just view here and compare no spin, no opinion.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=388

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=334

That difference is why the fight to squash the vocal minority has raised the vitriol and the anger.

[ThatBozGuy]

17. The civility will return when the ferrel vocal minority is brought to civil discourse or removed

[Up2Late]

20. I have the answer if you really want to hear it.

If you do, here it is, but you are not going to like the answer.

Most of the those here who are doing the disruptive behavior that you are complaining about are here for the purpose of disruption. Check it out. Look at who is doing it. Most of them don't have a Doner star. That's right, most of the people who are causing most of the trouble here and are running up 300, 600, 900+ post, using up all that bandwidth with all there colorful logos on their posts, have not even had the courtesy of giving $10 Dollars. And their behavior is not only disrupting civil tone of DU, but they are running off most of our milder, less confrontational members who just don't want to deal with their crap.

So now watch, one of two things is going to happen here. Either I'll get a bunch of BS and FU posted replies to this post or this will go almost completely ignored, so not to give you the live example of what I'm talking about. If the second happens, check out a few of the "Hillary can't win" posts on the latest threads page and count the stars, then you'll know.

[musicblind]

32. Sadly I also see many long time DU'ers who seem to cause problems too

I have a low post count but try to stay fair. I call out things Clinton has done wrong and things Obama has. Or at least things I FEEL they have done wrong. Since most things here are shades of gray and subject to opinion, others are free to disagree with me.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

35. No profile, no star, no proof (backing up their positions with facts)posters are certainly plentiful

Your point is valid. The true disruptors are really pretty easy to spot. We just need to call them on their shit and expose it -- no matter which candidate they are espousing. Good post.

[EFerrari]

21. The Donner Pass Democrats II: The Nagging.

[McCamy Taylor]

24. Hint: the Freepers aren't just watching. The cure, start posting about McCain.

Take the McCain challenge. Do at least one thread about one of the many McCain scandals (Keating, telecom lobbyists, waffling on Iraq, his druggie wife etc.) and write something about it then go write a positive post about your Dem and then go write a negative post about the other Dem.

That will give us a nice healthy board.

[mikelewis]

28. Well... it's fun... and as long as we don't break the rules... allowed. That's what gives us ....

That's what gives us the right... it's an open forum.

[musicblind]

33. But many people are breaking the rules. You aren't allowed to call names

or call an individual poster out, or do half the things that people here are doing. On both sides, for both candidates :(

[angie_love]

29. I doubt most Hillary supporters will come here and agree with you even though

you make perfectly logical sense. But look at the posters in this thread, do you see many Hillary supporters? NOPE. Its obvious they don't want to hear about Unity.

[musicblind]

34. That's odd. I'm a Hillary supporter and have made several posts in this thread.

I have also seen other Hillary supporters making posts in other threads to promote unity. I think the reason there seem to be fewer posting is because it is late at night and Hillary supporters now make up about 15% of due. They are greatly out numbered here so their presence isn't as felt.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

36. Blanket statement like this are disruptive. Do you have something positive to say?

Talking about unity, but encouraging dissension, is incongruous. Trashing supporters for no reason is disruptive. Why are you doing it?

[Up2Late]

40. No, most of them are tired of the BS we've been dealing with from the Obama Goon-squad

Those who don't have a thick skin have either stopped coming to the site all together or have moved the discussion to the privacy of our group, where most of the Obama goon-squad can't even go because they haven't got a donor star and get deleted if they post there disruptive crap there. And it's 4am! Most of the adults have gone to bed as I'm about to do.

I'm sure a lot of the good, smart Democrats will never come back to DU due to all the crap that the Obama goon-squad has been putting them through here in the last few weeks. It's a shame, as this once was a great place for smart discourse, who knows if we'll ever get that back.

If you want good, smart debate, start by cleaning house and stop cheering on the Obama disruptors. Better yet, tell them to shape up or get out.

[Gore Edwards]

53. giving up

Hey, at this point DU is the best you're gonna get. Buzzflash,
TPM, Even DKos have abandoned impartiality, Oh, and Huffington
post too! Media Matters is our only refuge. David Brock, you
must stand up against this new left wing noise machine. Rather
obvious to me that the right-wing noise machine is behind all
the disruption of the electoral process. If I'm wrong I will
apologize.

[InsultComicDog]

37. Arguing on a message board isn't going to hurt anything

any more than it helps anything.

If you want to help your candidate, make some phone calls, knock on some doors, register some voters...

I do some of that, but I also post silly pictures on message boards for no apparent positive purpose...

[HCE SuiGeneris]

39. Well, that's just silly...

[InsultComicDog]

52. lol

[SoCalDem]

38. The Constitution & the Bill of Rights

and of course the internet(s):rofl:

[JoFerret]

41. Thanks. TWO GREAT candidates

<<You guys want to debate? Please do. You guys want to argue? Go right ahead. But let’s stop with all this bullshit about Candidate X is a liar and a traitor, and Candidate Y is a hypocrite and a loser. Either one of them would be better than JOHN FUCKING MCCAIN!

[crankychatter]

42. President Lieberman

McCain will be medically unfit.

VP Holy Joe will take the reigns.

[GeorgeGist]

44. Everyone has the right to be stupid ...

sorry you can't deal with it.

You know who would make a good President? Anybody but JOHN FUCKING MCCAIN!

More Bush, Stupid?

[JTG of the PRB]

48. I'm sorry, are you attempting to call me stupid?

Did you not read the part where I said anybody but John Fucking McCain would make a better President? I left our Bush because his term is ending, and unless he pulls some epic evil shit in the next six months, it's more than likely going to be that way.

I can deal with everything, but it's not helping us as people. I THOUGHT we were better than this, but you're helping to prove my point that we're not.

[polichick]

45. Freedom of speech...

This is a message board ~ meaningless in comparison with what's happening on the ground across this country. People who want to make a difference get involved in real life ~ others just engage in verbal sport here.

[gravity]

49. The 1st amendment

[JTG of the PRB]

50. I realize that's a popular answer, and it IS the right one.

I agree with you 110% on that one. But that's not what I'm asking.

I'm asking why that freedom gives us the right to abuse one another, to lash out at one another, to mock each other and work on tearing these boards apart. people here create lasting friendships and those are getting strained sometimes by all this ridiculous infighting. The First Amendment guarantees us our freedom of speech, whether in the real world or here in cyberspace. What I'M asking is, why is that an excuse to act like a bunch of Freeper trolls?

[Kablooie]

51. As long as Hillary remains in the race her supporters will continue to support her.

And the more desperate her chances are, the more volatile the reactions.

Once she concedes, things will quiet down and our attention will turn towards McCain.

If, after conceding, her supporters turn their backs on Obama, THEN we will have something
serious to talk about.

Stopping the infighting is up to Hillary. If she believes she has a chance and remains in the race
the fighting will go on.

If she believes she has lost and remains in the race, she is deliberately instigating infighting and
should be held responsible.