PART 2: Let's carefully examine the rationales for continuing this primary fight, shall we?

[Political Heretic]

PART 1 is here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5218279&mesg_id=5218279

Now let's look at some common arguments against the conclusions drawn in Part 1:

Are we at 2025 yet? No? Then the process should continue.

Not if you accept premise number one and premise number two.

Polls show Obama slipping against McCain, so the process should continue.

Polls show both candidates slipping against McCain. See premise one and two.

We must hear from all the states.

Really? Well that's a brand new expectation that is completely uncommon in election history. And given the fact that the Republicans have already secured a nominee, I refer you back to premise one and two.

But Hillary is the better candidate

You know, I'm going to say something very unpopular: so what? Sometimes, in a representative democracy, the other person is chosen. Both Clinton and Obama have relatively the SAME policies and frankly, though I know both sides will hate me for saying it, basically have the SAME relative experience. Hillary has more in some areas, Obama has more in others. All of this frenzied infighting is really over PERSONALITY -- you just LIKE one candidate better than the other. And that is a stupid ass reason to keep bringing the party down, weakening the standing of both candidates.

The truth is, BOTH candidate faces challenges against McCain. I still believe we can win if we UNITE NOW. But Barack Obama is less vetted and will have to rely on his incredibly appeal to overcome McCain. Clinton is more vetted but is also universally despised by conservatives more than almost any other democratic in the United States. She will have to rely on massive, massive democratic turnout to overcome a unifed republican party.

EITHER candiate could overcome those challenges - if we unite behind them RIGHT NOW. And since Obama is the clear, and unquestioning front runner in every substantive category, it ought to be Clinton who is thinking about the party and not just herself.

[napi21]

1. I agree with you on almost all points, but there's ONE thing you

didn't mention. I haven't ever seen ANY serious politician who was still receiving large donations of money ever "just quit". In all fairness, do you honestly believe if the situation were reversed, Barack would "just quit"? I agree, it continues to look like he will win, but her supporters, her campaign team, and the polsters ALL keep telling her she will win Pa. REALLY BIG! She can win NC, and several States, and that will change the momentum. I have NO IDEA if that BS is true or not, but I can understand why Hillary wouldn't "just quit" now.

[grantcart]

2. It appears that the Feb financial report indicates her money is running thin

[ossman]

3. I think BO would quit because he has more of a future in the party.

Hillary seems to see all or nothing.

[elfin]

15. I don't think he wants a future in the Dem party if he quits --

He will return to the law full time after completeing his Senate term, combined with activism - perhaps hope for a Supreme Court nomination if by some miracle Clinton wins the GE.

He will never run again for the Presidency - it's now or never, folks.

However, Clinton will run at ant any opportunity - even up to age 70.

A complete difference in personality, even though many positions are similar.

[Political Heretic]

4. In the spirit of honesty: I don't know!

There are so many things about this election cycle that are historic firsts. And there aren't as many election cycles that are these kind of crazy close races.

I don't know if Obama would just quit. I only know that if situations were reversed I would want him to. I also have to mention that FEC reports are out on both candidates, and the Clinton campaign is essentially broke. Someone crunched the numbers, and they have about 4mill liquid, which I'm pretty sure won't even cover the ad buy in Pennsylvania.

So really, I'm not sure if your premise itself is correct. Her campaign isn't even financially strong.

[joshcryer]

12. I wouldn't quit as long as superdelegates kept hanging around and not deciding.

I mean, as long as it's mathematically possible for me to win with those superdelegates hanging around.

[ThatBozGuy]

7. There is an issue of money missed in the discussion, its not the money....

Its the people, the Democratic party has never been about the money. Sure there is record breaking fundraising going on.

But more people have voted in a much more meaning full way at a time when our economy is in the drop and dive into the worst recession we have seen in over 20 years or even 50.

No politician has had over a million individual donors ever, no campaign has ever been owned by the people more, let alone at a time where every penny is thin, and that campaign has not done just one million people, in the month of march alone it has added ANOTHER million Americans.

Over 2 Million individual donors, that is a staggering amount of owners in this campaign.

[SoCalDem]

9. Mark Penn apparently got paid $4M last month & she "owes" him $2M more

Thats' why they don't want to quit

[C_U_L8R]

14. BINGO ! Her top advisors are coin-operated.

Of course they want to continue.

And there's no way Bill is gonna tell her to stop : - )))

[Voice for Peace]

16. Not only money, but her conviction that it won't really be decided until June

and that waiting till June won't hurt the party's chances in November.

I heard her say this not too long ago, ie that Bill wasn't the nominee until
June and still won the GE against big odds.

But the tone of her campaign, her very high profile with this, is reminding
many people who are Independent or people sick of the Republican party
as-is why they REALLy don't want Democrats. If she is the face of the
Democratic party, it's just scary to a large part of the country. I'm sorry
to say it but I think it's true.

[Umbram]

5. I agree entirely. Very well drafted. Thank you. (nt)

[HCE SuiGeneris]

6. I predicted she would drop out after PA. That was before I saw the level

of attacks escalate. The sooner we define a path that unites us against the GOP, the better. Thanks for taking the time to lend some clearer perspective to the current predicament.

[joshcryer]

11. She's going to the convention unless the supers decide it before then.

She has no reason not to go to the convention when the superdelegates have not given it to Obama yet.

This question should be posed to superdelegates, who knows why they're waiting.

[Norrin Radd]

8. McCain has already lost to the economy. The real opponent is election fraud.

[joshcryer]

10. Neither candidate has a perceived mandate.

The people want the voting to continue, whether you like it or not.

You should be posing your question to the superdelegates, not to people on a forum, because they will be the ultimate deciders in this.

[Perry Logan]

13. Anti-Hillary types say she's as ambitious as Macbeth. So why bother to debate about it?

[Snarkoleptic]

17. So true.

Click the link, page down, adjust the remaining primary results (move the arrows L or R).
She won't win and must exit the race before doing additional damage to our chances in November.
http://www.slate.com/id/2185278/

[joshcryer]

18. I decided to bump this because I wanted people to understand the superdelegates are keeping this...

...going. It's not Hillary, it's not Obama. It's the superdelegates "waiting and seeing."

[Political Heretic]

19. kick