No One Can Justifiably Call for Hillary to Drop Out.

[tekisui]

It is up to Sen. Clinton, and her campaign, to determine their course. Calling for her to drop shows a lack of confidence in Obama. She has received 12 million+ votes. She is in a very close second, and does not owe anyone anything. Not the Party, not Obama and not even the Voters.

I am not worried about any damage to Obama because of Hillary staying in the race. If anything, it makes him stronger, gives him a greater audience as we go to more states, and weakens John Dubya McSame's attacks.

I do wish that the continued Primary did not hurt our fundraising ability for the House and Senate seats. The DNC is about broke, the RNC has full coffers. With all the Dem money going to fight each other.

But, we will have time to replenish, re-group and move forward when we have Our Nominee.

Let Hillary chose her way, it is not a reason of concern.

[madaboutharry]

1. Her candidacy at this point doesn't pass the "foot

on the other shoe" test. If it was turned around and she was now in Obama's position and he in hers, could anyone honestly say that he would still be in this contest? I believe the answer is no.

[tekisui]

4. If it were reversed, I would want Obama to stay in.

I would want him to stay as long as there was even a sliver of a chance.

[OzarkDem]

Flaw in your reasoning

You're assuming both candidates are equal in experience, skills and electability in the GE. They are not.

[MH1]

32. You have a point. Obama is more skilled and electable.

They differ in type of experience, not so much quantity, except that she has more years on the planet, so in that sense she is "more experienced".

[OzarkDem]

43. Sorry, but the facts show otherwise

His experience is very marginal, as is his electability in the GE. He has not been vetted and Dems should be wary of putting him out there until he is.

He will be a good candidate perhaps the next time around. Right now, we need to put the party and our country first.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

48. facts are precisely why she is fading. They are agin her. Despite her lies

deceit, spin and crap like "drug dealing", "Madrassa", "NAFTA" and worse. She would be ashamed of herself, but for the obvious fact that she has no shame whatsoever. I can never and will never vote for a person of her honesty or her ethical and moral standing.

[OzarkDem]

54. Not lies, spin from Obama

and the fact that she's gaining in popularity shows voters aren't buying it.

[MH1]

56. "we need to put the party and our country first"

means we need to rally behind the people's choice - Barack Obama - and not have people supposedly on our side, trying to tear him down and build up McCain.

Obama handled the Wright thing well so I don't worry about his vetting; I don't think Clinton is any more "vetted" - there is just more to remind people of that already makes them uncomfortable. Clinton's experience is also marginal, and that isn't unusual for a president. If experience mattered so much, we'd have nominated either Richardson, Biden, or Dodd.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

46. true. She had tea and cookies all over the world. Obama was doing real

work in Illinois.

[Lucky 13]

61. For all your talk of experience skills and electability...

... it sure hasn't earned her many delegates now has it?

[madaboutharry]

73. Accusing someone of a "flaw" in there reasoning is

easy to do. What Clinton has on Obama as far as experience is concerned is a few more years in the Senate. Her "lifetime of experience" argument doesn't speak truthfully of her real experience as an elected official. As far as electability is concerned, the voters have spoken as to who they believe is the more electable of the two.

[MethuenProgressive]

2. Only those who fear her want her to quit.

Why else would they hate having her stay in? They fear she'll win.

[tekisui]

6. Exactly.

IMO, the only way she could still win is with a major implosion for Obama. I don't think that is going to happen. But, if I were her, and could afford it, I would stay in, just in case.

[SoFlaJet]

27. you DO have a point there MP

I FEAR she's going to tear the democratic party apart so she can run again in 2012. Look, I have no problem with her staying in as long as they cut the negative bullshit out and the endorsing of McCain-that shit's gotta stop

[Clovis Sangrail]

40. not true

I have no fear that she will win and I would be pretty happy if she dropped.
My feeling is that if this goes on until the convention, which is likely at this point, the result is going to be a party that is too split to win 9 weeks later in the GE.

And yes, if the situation were reversed I would want Obama to drop... as I think many others would.

[Joe Chi Minh]

65. Then why the clamour for Edwards to quit? That WAS fear. Only the

Only the bent computers and voter suppression prevented his triumphing - in spite of the bent MSM!.

[dchill]

68. The only thing I fear...

is having a pathological liar anywhere near that red phone. I honestly do not think that she is stable enough for the job. That is something to fear.

[burythehatchet]

3. Exactly. Just like Ralph Nader. She's not breaking any rules.

[SoCalDem]

57. Huckabee in a yellow pantsuit.. & a mean attitude

can't win it..but at least he had the decency to not tear McCain to shreds..

Hill's the Nat'l Honor Society girl who's pissed because she cannot be Homecoming queen..

[burythehatchet]

60. the thought of another president with deep-seated emotional issues.

yikes!

:scared:

[JimGinPA]

5. Yeah, Why Shouldn't She Continue Making The Repub Ads Against Obama For McSame To Use In The GE...

:eyes:

[tekisui]

9. She has every right to.

I think it's wrong. I don't think she can win. I don't think she will win. Her embracing McSame disgusts me, but she isn't breaking any rules, and to fear her shows weakness.

[rug]

7. Solid post. Those threads do show a lack of confidence.

Either way, McCain can beat neither of them. This primary is not for the nomination, it's for the presidency.

[tekisui]

11. That's it. This is the General Election. McSame is a place holder.

[cooolandrew]

8. HRC is misleading her voters it is not close at all even if she wins PA.

[tekisui]

14. Not close at all.

That's not the point. I contend it is up to Hillary to chose when she wants to accept her defeat. She and her team know more than we do. They know the chance is slim to none, and getting closer to none everyday. Why sweat it. She'll be done in due time.

[UALRBSofL]

18. HRC is not misleading her supporters

Even on Face The Nation the pundits around the table were giving her a chance. They listed three things that needed to happen and two things would be very hard to do. It's a slim chance but either way they said she did have a chance. Now, who do you think the public will listen to, DU or talk shows?

[Snarkoleptic]

19. Agreed...now is the time for unity...do the math...she's out of the race.

(Unless the plan is to undo the will of the voters & pledged delegates)
Click the link, page down, adjust the remaining primary results (move the arrows L or R).
She must exit the race before doing additional damage to our chances in November.
http://www.slate.com/id/2185278/

[polichick]

10. There's no need to rush her - as more and more national players weigh in...

...she'll finally see the writing on the wall ~ but one thing is absolutely clear: she cares about her own ambitions more than she cares about either the party or the country.

[PM7nj]

12. A Very Close Second??

How is she a close second??? He has 167 more pledge delegates, 131 total delegates, ~830,000 actual votes, and the money to go on. She is behind no matter how you count it and has no money to go on.

[tekisui]

20. She's a close second when you look at the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th

place finishes. She can't win it, but she doesn't need to be forced out. It shows lack of confidence in Obama.

[PM7nj]

23. I agree that she's second, but not a close second lol

[tekisui]

Fair enough, she's a distance unbridgable second.

[OzarkDem]

13. Quality and Electability in the GE

Those are the things Dems need to focus on, or we will lose to McCain. Anyone who thinks Clinton should drop out is not focusing on those priorities.

[JimGinPA]

24. She Has Shown Her Quality In Her Poorly Run Campaign - Her Negatives Reflect On Her Electabilty...

So you're right, she can't win the GE.

[OzarkDem]

45. She's very electable

though she is a threat to some men.

Her experience and skills are fine and certainly superior to Obama's. The focus has to be on beating McCain, not on anointing Obama as the nominee.

[JimGinPA]

50. If Dishonesty Is What You Look For In A Candidate, She's Your Girl.

[saltpoint]

15. I think her chances have become far more steep, but agree that it's her

call to make.

Observations on why and how she's lost so much ground, though, seem fair game.

[tekisui]

21. Absolutely. The weaker she looks, the less votes she will get.

[cooolandrew]

16. An August convention is only 2moths to replenish anything. The nominee should be working each state

at thsipoint. HRC is staying in for ego and without question damaging chaces of a win this fall.

[tekisui]

26. We are stonger than that.

It will be an Obama Nomination. He is already waging the General Election battle. Until then, the gop and McSame cannot focus their aim. They have to fight both.

[Warren Stupidity]

17. Her campaign has only one hope: personal destruction of Obama.

She cannot win by the numbers so her only hope is to so damage Obama that he is forced to withdraw from the race. I'd say she's given that her best shot and come up short. It hasn't worked. Time for a graceful party unity exit.

The actual time for her to withdraw was after super tuesday.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

22. HELLO? Read what you posted !!!

Could it be the DNC is broke because Democrats find themselves spending far more than ever backing a Presidential candidate not yet chosen so late in the game?

[tekisui]

29. That is my biggest concern.

But, the money keeps coming in to Obama. With him on the ticket, his coattails will be long.

[rug]

30. Oh no!

[fightthegoodfightnow]

36. Cute

Is that Hillary's ad campaign?

Is that Dick Cheney and King George in the background.

That turquoise spot in the upper right hand corner must be Karl Rove.

[gravity]

25. She can't win

and she is using Rovian tactics against Obama to fight for a lost cause. This is forcing Obama to waste his energy and money defending against her attacks instead of going after McCain.

No one can force her out, but there are still many justifications for her getting out of the race.

[tekisui]

33. Agreed, I think demanding it shows weakness.

Let her flounder. She exit soon enough.

[cascadiance]

69. I think a better way to state it would be the Democrats can't win with her nominated...

Since:

- with just the pledge delegates, it is a near impossible task for her to get a majority now.

- if she pulls stunts of getting the super delegates to vote for her, or counting Michigan and Florida primaries, and shows in effect a "coup" of going against what the party base wants, then it exposes the party to be criticized for not wanting true democracy, which has been it's central message for many years (and a winning message in the past in many instances).

- she has no real mission to hold out other than "you want me" to stake continuing her campaign on. If she did, she could say she's justified in continuing her campaign to help some cause be helped, but ultimately the cause of "Hillary" will not be served, nor will anyone else's at this point.

There are many other reasons that are more arguable why she shouldn't be the nominee (aka mobilizing the Republicans to vote against her, reviving Monicagate as an election issue, etc.), but the above should be enough to point out to her that there ARE reasons to ask for her to step down at this point. It may be her decision to make, but I fail to see how anyone's being served (even herself) by her prolonging this campaign. The only thing that's being served from my perspective are the Clintons' and some close allies of hers' egos!

[4themind]

28. If she doesn't have the lead in either...

the pledged delegates or "popular vote" in the DNC accepted contests after the last primary, She would have at least diminished the justification for "everyone being able to vote", because at that point everyone would have voted. The only ones left really would be the super delegates, and I'd have no qualms about asking them to announce their support at that point, they can either do it right after the last primary or they can let even more "uncertainty" drag the thing out for another 3 months almost, whichever way they decide at that point, the sooner they do, the sooner we can get to focusing on McCain.

[against all enemies]

31. I can. Drop out Hillary. Before you spoil the whole thing.

See, it's easy. Now if the rest of the Democrats can do the same thing we can get on with the project at hand - beating McCain.

[Donkeykick]

34. I agree.

It should be up to each candidate as to what he/she is going to do in situations like this one. :thumbsup:

[Bensthename]

35. I can.. No wait, no I can't. She is still too close to drop just yet.

[tekisui]

38. Not too close, just free to run her campaign into the ground

how ever she wants. She knows her days are numbered. She may not be financially able to make it to or past PA. She may be waiting for PA to bow out after a win.

It's up to her to decide when she accepts the loss.

[Bensthename]

41. I think with the time given till PA and Obamas money and talent he may win it.

[tekisui]

44. That would be the final nail for sure then.

I hope you're right, you could be.

[BlueIdaho]

37. Why Not...

As long as she can convince her "demographic" - lower income ethnic whites (and boy do I hate that term) - to keep digging deeper and deeper into their pockets and handing over more and more money she should keep renting expensive hotel rooms, riding in limos, and eating at the finest restaurants. After all she's never going to have to pay the bill herself. Forget the fact that the Democratic party could use that money for the election. As long as she can keep milking the cash cow and standing in front of her adoring "fans" why should she stop?

I'm sorry she does the party no favors and were the situation reversed folks would be screaming their heads off about the waste and damage done to the party.

They used to say the lottery was designed to punish people that don't understand math - but now its the Clinton campaign.

[JimGinPA]

39. None Of The Other Candidates That Dropped Out Needed To Be Told

[tekisui]

42. And they dropped. Hillary will, too.

It is up to her to decide when to accept the loss.

[JimGinPA]

53. I Think She Is Hurting The Party By Denigrating Our Eventual Nominee

If you don't then I guess we disagree.

[Cogito ergo doleo]

47. For what it's worth, it was reported on Tweety's show this a.m.

that some in the Hillary camp are telling her they won't stay if it gets to the point that her campaign is damaging the party. Chris asked the reporter who made the statement how he knew that, and he answered, "Reporting."

There's no link, but they may rerun that show on MSNBC later.

[tekisui]

49. That's good to hear. An aide to her also said her chances were under 10%

She's in debt, and Obama made it through the last smear attempt. She doesn't have anything to give her a boost for a month.

I think they are planning their exit, as we speak.

[AllentownJake]

51. Hopefully she runs out of cash

That always makes the decision easier.

[tekisui]

52. She is in debt, now.

I think the end is near.

[Misanthrope2]

55. Add Florida and Michicgan and the race is even.

The credentials committee must add Florida and Michigan or risk losing the support of millions of voters. Besides, they let New Hampshire pull the same stunt, so it would be hypocritical not add Florida and Michigan.

It is an even race and it will be decided at the convention.

[tekisui]

58. FL & MI don't count, and shouldn't

And they wouldn't make the race even, either. She would still not catch him.

I don't think she can last until the Convention, but if she does, she will lose on the first ballot.

[cliffordu]

59. By the same token...

No one can justifiably refer to her as a qualified for the position, either.

[tekisui]

62. I agree.

[cliffordu]

64. Great minds think alike....

:headbang:
:yourock:

[KittyWampus]

63. The Primary isn't done by popular vote. SHE IS NOT A CLOSE SECOND.

[tekisui]

67. You're right, she is second.

An insurmountable second.

[JohnnyLib2]

66. Thank you, Tekisui.

I have to wonder what regrets Edwards might have, or others in the past.
It seems so elementary: when you are out, you are out. The party's nomination will come in due time.

[undeterred]

70. YES WE CAN!

[mudesi]

71. Don't they teach arithmetic in school anymore?

[tekisui]

72. I know there is no mathematical possibility of Hillary taking it.

I am thankful for that. But, Hillary knows it, too. I just think it gives Hillary more credit as a threat than she really is to constantly call for her drop. She will drop, on her terms, no worries.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

74. HillaryMath is a brand new field of

multi-dimensional mathematics, involving bent, not curved, universes, quantum flows which create virtual realities as if by magic, only to disappear a news cycle later.

[Medusa]

75. And don't forget the parting of the heavens and the miracles (multiple)

on high it will take for her to win the nom. But hey Hillsters-"Keep Hope Alive"---it's all you've got at this point. :evilgrin: