If Obama had made the "sniper fire" lie, his campaign would have been over.

[Bonobo]

We all know that if Obama had been caught in the recent lie that Hillary was caught in -about "running with her head down" under sniper fire, he would have been called a liar AND a coward. No question about it.

It would have been 100 times worse even then this:


So with these issues of masculinity and the expectations placed upon men, where does this fit in with the larger issue of sexism in politics? Is this a case of Hillary getting an unfair PASS or ADVANTAGE because she is a woman?

How can a Commander in Chief be someone who is either

a) A liar who lied about the conditions in Bosnia when she visited, or
b) So cowardly that she was frightened by what turned out to be no threat at all, and later magnified it out of proportion because she was so rattled.

[tekisui]

1. It was a brazen lie.

THis one should be all over the place. There is an element of sexism, where she has, IMO, had to look and act tougher. I think it is part of the explanation of her War and Military votes, and her rhetoric.

But, a lie is a lie, and this one is a whopper. Someone needs to pick it up and run with it.

[TwilightGardener]

2. I know. The double standard is insane. Hillary can make up an egregious lie

and get caught by videotape and photos, and the press shrugs. If Obama's past associations aren't picture-perfect, if he makes the occasional gaffe, the press howls and jumps and hashes over it for literally weeks.

[niceypoo]

13. Were you in grade school in the 90s?

Grow a thicker skin...

[Andy823]

3. They just brought this up

On Meet the Press. It isn't good for Hillary.

[tekisui]

4. Oh, good. Anyone else picked it up yet?

[HereSince1628]

5. If it were only this one stretched truth it would stop most

but Clinton gets by fine with a campaian made of spandex, wrinkle free and stain-resistant fabric.
But then, isn't all cloth made from thread that must first be spun?

[leeman67]

6. well ya know..he's just lucky he's black

*snark*

:eyes:

[Ravy]

7. Why? It wasn't over when he told his Senate supporters he would

serve out his term. It wasn't over when he said he would not vote to fund the war. It wasn't over when he said that Rezko contributed far less than he actually did. It wasn't over when he said that his campaign had no discussions with Canadian authorities about NAFTA.

They both stretch and lie.

[Bonobo]

10. Like I said, "Commander-in-Chief" and lying about military conditions is a bad combo. nt

[MannyGoldstein]

8. Clinton's Running On 'Getting Things Done', Not On 'Being Truthful'

So it's not quite so big of a deal.

(Of course, the "getting things done" meme is, itself, a lie: I can't recall anything major that she's accomplished.)

[Unsane]

20. being truthful has never been the Clintons' thing

[carlotta]

9. surely, you jest

Obama has already been caught in so many lies, my head is spinning.

1. Said he wasn't present for Wright's controversial sermons--that was a lie
2. Said no one from his campaign talked to the Canadians about NAFTA--that was a lie
3. Said he had received only $50,000 from Rezko--that was a lie--we now know of at least $250,000.
4. Said he would use public funds for the general election if the other nominee agreed--now we hear that he won't.
5. Said he would not run a negative campaign, but now we see that was a lie.
6. Said he had a strict timetable for getting us out of Iraq, but his now-departed advisor Samantha Power says that he shouldn't be held
to that.

What have I missed?

[Bonobo]

11. Any list of Hillary's, thinned out as much as yours is, would be far, far longer. nt

[carlotta]

12. well, let's hear it

Show me what you have.

[Bonobo]

22. Sorry, if you gotta ask...

[Botany]

15. What have I missed?

The point

[Botany]

14. Good God What a Bald Faced Liar NAFTA now this?

she got a kiss from a little girl and there was no sniper fire


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/21/AR2008032102989.html

Had Hillary Clinton's plane come "under sniper fire" in March 1996, we would certainly have heard about it long before now. Numerous reporters, including The Washington Post's John Pomfret, covered her trip. A review of nearly 100 news accounts of her visit shows that not a single newspaper or television station reported any security threat to the first lady. "As a former AP wire-service hack, I can safely say that it would have been in my lead had anything like that happened," Pomfret said.

snip

Far from running to an airport building with their heads down, Clinton and her party were greeted on the tarmac by smiling U.S. and Bosnian officials. An 8-year-old Muslim girl, Emina Bicakcic, read a poem in English. An Associated Press photograph of the greeting ceremony, below, shows a smiling Clinton bending down to receive a kiss.

snip

Sinbad, who provided entertainment on the trip along with singer Sheryl Crow, said the "scariest" part was deciding where to eat. As he told Mary Ann Akers of washingtonpost.com, "I think the only 'red phone' moment was 'Do we eat here or at the next place?' " He questioned the premise behind the Clinton version of events. "What kind of president would say 'Hey, man, I can't go 'cause I might get shot, so I'm going to send my wife. Oh, and take a guitar player and a comedian with you'?"

Replying to Sinbad earlier this week, Clinton dismissed him as "a comedian." Her campaign referred me to Togo West, who was also on the trip and is a staunch Clinton supporter. West could not remember "sniper fire" himself but said there was no reason to doubt the first lady's version of events. "Everybody's perceptions are different," he told me

[BootinUp]

16. I have yet to see any substantial evidence of a lie

She said they landed under sniper fire. How is that going to be misproven. For all we know she was told by people in the military that shots where often taken at planes landing in some of these areas. And I don't see where she lied to say they landed under sniper fire if there were hot zones she landed in with a history of that activity.

She said they ran with their heads down after a landing. Where has this been refuted? Has someone that travelled with her actually said they never ran with their heads down after a landing?

[Botany]

19. Where has this been refuted?

The Washington Post, does that work for you

[BootinUp]

23. Its a political hit job with twisting of words for maximum effect. Not a fact check.

The actual quotes that the WP is taking issue with:

And in a direct jab back at Obama, she recalled visiting Bosnia on a plane that made a tight corkscrew landing to avoid potential attacks. "Somebody said there might be sniper fire," she said, adding tartly, "I don't remember anyone offering me tea on the tarmac."

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/12/29/hold_the_crumpets.html

Clinton, during a late December campaign appearance in Iowa, described a hair-raising corkscrew landing in war-torn Bosnia, a trip she took with her then-teenage daughter, Chelsea. "They said there might be sniper fire," Clinton said.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/2008/03/sinbad_unloads_on_hillary_clin.html

If somebody can prove she wasn't told there "might be sniper fire" and that they didn't make a tight maneuver while landing to avoid hot spots then maybe you have something.

She never claimed the plane was actually under fire, nor did she claim running with their heads down on any particular landing. Her speech they quote described non specific recollections that could have occurred at different landings.

"I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."
--Hillary Clinton, speech at George Washington University, March 17, 2008.

This is not inconsistent from being told their "might be sniper fire" and concerns about security at the airport. Did she embellish? Perhaps, but I don't agree with those characterizing it as a bald face lie at all. No one has made the case she never exited an aircraft over there and made for the cars in a hasty manner because of security concerns. Pictures of 1 landing just can't do that when there where more than 1 landing she made at more than one airport.

[Swamp Rat]

30. "Did she embellish? Perhaps," - More like, she outright lied her ass off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2rtBUfc6YA&feature=related

Damn! What a stupid thing to say! This might cause her to lose her Senate seat when she comes up for re-election.

First, she lets Penn and Wolfsen destroy her campaign, then this really dumb "embellishment." :dunce:

[KittyWampus]

31. sorry, there's video tape of her saying they had to run from the plane with heads down

to avoid sniper fire and the ceremony was cancelled.

Here is her quote:

“I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.” --Hillary Clinton, speech at George Washington University, March 17, 2008.

[BootinUp]

36. The short video at the airport is hardly proof

that a ceremony wasn't cut short and cancelled. Ceremonies are not quick handshakes and greetings on the tarmac. But your having fun with this, just go for it, the repukes and MSM love you for your need to follow along with their Clinton bashing.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

17. "Wash Post had to up date their "Fact-Check...."

You people are pathetic ... looks like you're going to have to find a new venue of attack:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5218599&mesg_id=5219812

[Jersey Devil]

25. They're doing a movie about it already

Hillary's Balkan Adventures

[Bonobo]

28. OMG! That is the funniest thing ever!

[Drachasor]

33. The updated fact check confirms Clinton lied -- why don't you go read it?

She said:
"I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/clintons_iraq_speech_at_gwu.html

Whereas it is a fact her visit wasn't disrupted.

[suston96]

18. Where is the link that specifically says "she was shot at"? nt

[SaveOurDemocracy]

21. She never claimed she was 'shot at' ...

Just another O-Team LIE:

[Bonobo]

26. She said they had to "Run with their heads down on the tarmac". Did it happen or not?

[SaveOurDemocracy]

32. Which landing? How do you know what took place

BEFORE or AFTER that picture? I think it's very likely that ... if no one else, her Secret Service detail ... hustled them along with instructions for she and Chelsea to keep their heads down.


Don't you see this is a BOGUS issue? Just more fodder to keep the Dems at each other's throats? We make it so fuckin easy for them.

[Bonobo]

34. The point of the OP was that there is a double standard because she is a woman.

I don't think being a self-aggrandizing liar is a small thing either.

We've had enough of that already.

[Jersey Devil]

27. Canon to the right of her, canon to the left of her

Cannon in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.

What a gal! My hero!!

[Drachasor]

35. Here you go!

"I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/clintons_iraq_speech_at_gwu.html

[quantass]

24. k

[BlooInBloo]

29. Believe me, he's used to the asymmetric way he has been and will continue to be treated...

... It's just the way this country is.