I can find very few posts defending Hillary now.

[Kablooie]

And many of the ones I do find seem to be from people touting feminism.

I can understand someone with strongly held feminist views supporting Hillary as president
but there comes a point where one must concede that there are other issues at play and
accept that the time for a female president must wait a while longer.

And after Hillary's performance in this campaign, I would think that many would rather
have someone else become the very first woman president anyway.

[Nitrogenica]

1. I don't see any. The 30 people I've ignored must have done it.

[davidinalameda]

8. you too?

I go into pro-Obama threads and see half the posts-IGNORED

it's sad really

these people have nothing better to do than bash Obama

[Nitrogenica]

33. They act like they have deep seeded anger towards a Democrat.

Hmmm...

[davidinalameda]

94. not all of them are freeper trolls

but I'm willing to bet more than a few are

but for the most part, they're just bitter

[jimshoes]

37. Me too.

;)

[Hepburn]

43. Only 30?????

:rofl:

[burythehatchet]

58. 250+

[Cha]

119. U2?

:)

[Skittles]

123. so you only hear what you want to hear

that's very freeper-like

[Scairp]

129. I never would have believed it

If I hadn't witnessed it with my own eyes, Democrats displaying deep sexism in favor of an inexperienced man of mixed racial heritage. Of course, Hillary Clinton should not be supported solely because she is female but because she is the best and most experienced person to do the job. Unfortunately, many ARE supporting an ethnic man, it would seem, just because he isn't caucasian. This is deeply misguided, and it's going to cost us the White House in November.

[Maddy McCall]

2. You are just a fount of wisdom today.

:eyes:

Maybe the reason you see very few posts defending Clinton is because most of the Clinton supporters left DU and post elsewhere.

[Kablooie]

6. Hmm. And where are these other places?

[stillcool]

62. I think it's called Hillary44

[Rubiconski2009]

93. They run away to someplace safe and non-threatening

and declare victory.

Sort of like Iowa, South Carolina, Louisiana, Alabama, Alaska, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, North Dakota, Utah, Nebraska, Washington, Maine, District of Columbia, Maryland, Virginia, Hawaii, Wisconsin, Vermont, Wyoming, Mississippi...

:cry: :cry: :cry:

[rug]

128. Sort of like an ignore list.

[crankychatter]

133. Themes come in waves... like White House Talking Points

You know they're freepers... or the DLCers have just "gone sour"

I think showing their true colors now

Even when Obama is president... we'll have to look back at this and do some serious re-evaluation of Democratic Platform...

Will this be the next migration? like Strom Thurmond and Holy Joe Lieberman?

[rucky]

7. Might have something to do with the insults and eyerolls.

There was a nice way to say it.

[October]

31. I think it's fair to say

that there are a lot of very ugly anti-Hillary icons/images here at DU. I think that's why the HRC supporters no longer feel very welcome or interested in posting.

An "eye roll," while sarcastic, doesn't compare to some of the uglier things I've seen -- yet they get a pass.

[rucky]

41. We can make it a who's worst? contest

or be civil.

[October]

47. We can be civil

But you posted about an eyeroll...and are clearly an Obama supporter.

I've seen some uglier responses on this thread...and no call for "civility" there.

[Bake]

98. You mean the insults from the O-bots?

Directed toward the Hillary supporters?

That's why I don't post as much in here as I have in the past. It's like a freakin' gang war. Or a race war, dare I say it.

Bake

[HCE SuiGeneris]

101. Love your childish use of O-Bot. It speaks volumes.

[UALRBSofL]

11. Maddy you are absolutely right

Most of the Hillary supporters have left DU. However I'm still here. I need to keep up with what people are saying about Hillary and the primaries. By reading hate posts about Hillary it seems to reinforce my support for her.

[October]

17. I think you're right

I'm not on anyone's "bandwagon," as I've stated.

While I am committed to voting for the Democratic nominee,I find the atmosphere here at DU has become too ugly, too angry and very disrespectful towards women. There was a time when it was a very welcoming place where you could share differences. Now, it's all attacks 24/7. It's just an unhealthy place now. I check in for news, but it's way too insane to stick around.

[saltpoint]

28. An excellent trend. I'm for it.

[zabet]

53. C'mon!

I know you ain't
talkin' 'bout me!

:spank:

:rofl:

[saltpoint]

69. You get a pass. : )

But you have to promise to behave.

[zabet]

91. I promise

to try very, very hard. }(

:hi:

[saltpoint]

97. : )

:toast:

[Upton]

30. Or maybe they're all pinned down by sniper fire

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. LOL!

[saltpoint]

40. LOL!

[jgraz]

100. .

:spray:

[TomBall Democrat]

114. Too busy whining to each other that no one will take the bait nt

[boppers]

121. Upton, you're killing me!

Oh noes, snipers! :hide:

[October]

44. I can't get over the anger

Why are the Obama supporters so angry and full of hate?

It seems it's not enough to cheer for your chosen candidate -- you have to post hateful, ugly things/images about HRC. It's truly shocking. I think they treat Hillary worse than GWB or Cheney.

I don't get the anger part. Obama doesn't come off that way. I will vote for Barack or Hillary -- whoever is the nominee. And I won't hate either one.

I have noticed, though that Obama's supporters attack everything HRC says/does. This thread is just filled with glib remarks. There is little discussion here any more. I think THAT'S why people are leaving. It is no longer a place for intellectual discussion. It's become a forum for one-liners and attacks.

[unapatriciated]

106. I don't get the anger either

I will also be voting for whoever is the nominee. I only joined DU last year and really enjoyed coming here, now it is just a very hateful place. I have to say some of the comments and pics look like they belong on RW blogs. If you dare to question Obama's plans on Health Care, Economy or the Iraq War, you are labeled a HRC supporter and attacked or put on "ignore"(choose not to use that function in my opinion it is the same as censoring). It's probably a good thing most of us don't vote based on some of the post I have seen here lately. In fairness the first time I was called a "concern troll" was by a HRC (Clinton was the front runner then) supporter when I questioned her Health Plan. My guess is we Democrats haven't learned how to be good winners. Hopefully that will change in November.

[zabet]

52. Yep, most have left to

post in friendlier environments.
Sad loss of several worthy long-time
contributors to DU.

[incapsulated]

89. Exactly, I'm done with this sewer

Once and a while I lurk, such as today but ffs, why would any rational supporter of *either candidate* come here?

[OzarkDem]

112. Not just Clinton supporters, but Dem women

Who wants to hang out with a bunch of Obama parrots? Some people like to discuss issues and politics.

[K Gardner]

3. Most are content now to just bash Obama, which is sad really.

[October]

34. Interesting post

Hardly true.

There is a lot more HRC-bashing at DU.

I have no desire to bash either Democratic candidate. I think it's sad what's happening to our party.

[rucky]

4. I think alot of them bailed.

Probably lurking, though.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. Me neither but I have a pretty long ignore list

:)

[Kablooie]

9. I have no ignore list at all.

[ginnyinWI]

I took everyone off Ignore and still don't see many. n/t

[Jersey Devil]

22. Me too - definitely better in here - let it sink

They are running out of gas and time and delegates. They know it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. I wish there was a way I could check to see

who on my ignore list has been tombstoned.

[WolverineDG]

49. Click on their names

:hi:

dg

[proud2BlibKansan]

75. The list is too long - lol

:hi:

[WolverineDG]

104. Hee hee

I'm also testing the limits of the ignore option, but I have noticed that the more egregious offenders on it now have a granite cookie. :)

dg

[proud2BlibKansan]

113. Sadly, the ones annoying me the most

are long time DUers, many of whom I once respected.

[ginnyinWI]

74. I think if you double click on the name you might see it.

You have to go through each of them individually though.

[proud2BlibKansan]

76. I am too lazy to take the time to do that

:)

[Swamp Rat]

23. I have none on ignore.... yet.

There were a few long-time DUers who were really ugly to me, and many of my friends here - quite shocking, actually. I will see how they conduct themselves from now until the GE, and then decide whether they will go on 'ignore' AFTER the GE. I have very few on ignore, but once I put someone there, it is permanent.

This prompted me to start this thread (in which no one posted a reply :D ):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5215773&mesg_id=5215773

[kiva]

10. No, not a stand in line game.

You say "the time for a female president must wait a while longer." How long? Until we've elected an AA male, a Hispanic male, an Asian male, a NA male? Until every conceivable racial/ethnic/cultural group has had their representative male president? Nope, we won't take our number and quietly leave.

[Kablooie]

25. Understandable.

But this is not about an african american male.
It's about two people who present what they have to offer as future president.

What they are isn't nearly as important as who they are.

I'm confident that we will have a female president in the near future but
we might get someone even stronger than Hillary which would only help
the whole situation.

[ima_sinnic]

38. how silly! as though a candidacy was based on ethnic and gender chanacteristics

in which everybody has a "turn."

I vote for a PERSON, not a race or gender. Whoever is best qualified and will work for We The People will get my vote. I could give a rat's ass about their physical characteristics.

[WolverineDG]

51. So AAs should wait a while longer so you can have your way?

:eyes:

And therein lies the rub.

This is supposed to be about who is the best candidate for President, not a race between women & other minorites to get the "first" minority candidate.

dg

[bicentennial_baby]

12. Eh, just go to the Hillary Clinton group and read...

It's a very interesting place. :)

But remember, DU groups rules state that if you do not agree with the mission statement of the group, you may not post in that group. So, just read, but don't post there if you're not an HRC supporter. :)

[40ozDonkey]

15. I checked it out today...

They rejected A More Perfect Union for A More Perfect Echo Chamber.

Not surprising.

[TahitiNut]

20. I wonder if they've all bought their own VAM.

http://www.vamacoustics.com/products.html

Seems like a natural market for that product.

:shrug:

[bicentennial_baby]

21. !

:spray:

[davidinalameda]

95. if the posts in the forum are as bad as in GD-P

I rather visit freeperville

[BumRushDaShow]

13. They tag-team at night, using up their 3 post limits to bash rather than uplift. n/t

[LWolf]

14. I would much rather have someone else be the first woman president.

Just as I would much rather have someone else be the first black president.

I'm holding out for a brokered convention, because I don't want either of these poor choices to be president of the U.S..

[SoCalDem]

16. I have actually been looking..hoping to find a link within one of them

I am looking for the transcript of her Detroit speech about the revote that failed in MI..

anybody??

Bueller???

[BooScout]

18. Most Clinton supporters have left

No one has conceded anything ........we just don't wish to participate in all the hate anymore. Thanks for thinking of us though.

[AX10]

26. Just as we have left Kos and Olbermann as well as Anti-America Radio.

[UALRBSofL]

45. BooScout I'm still here but I have a few other sites to go to as well

But I like to keep up with the Hillary bashing and any new articles they post about her.

[BooScout]

57. I haven't given up either.....

But I have gotten the message that having a rational conversation with many here is not going to happen. So why bother trying? Thankfully there are other places to talk without someone calling me a freeper just for supporting a Democrat they don't happen to like.

BTW, you have mail.:-)

[TheDeathadder]

19. well you're wrong

but thanks for calling down from your high horse.

[tekisui]

24. There are very few "Pro-Hillary" posts. Many "Anti-Obama"

But few in favor of Hillary.

[October]

48. Not true

Go ahead and just look at the GD-P thread titles.

[saltpoint]

27. Among many progressives, Hillary Clinton was never a first choice.

The conduct of her campaign this winter has been questionable at best and disastrous at worst, and it exacts a toll.

DU leans strong left and Mrs. Clinton, perceived to be a triangulator in the fashion of her husband and his unsatisfying 8 years in office, has grown increasingly unpopular.

Correspondent to her campaign's collective failings is the adroit and sure-footed campaign of her opponent for the nomination. Obama has been tough, smart, and refreshing. Independents by the droves will insist on being attached to his historic campaign, even as Hillary Clinton seems busy unleashing surrogates to race-bait.

He's outflanked her, she's flailing, and with Obama's address in Philadelphia, there isn't much question in anyone's mind that words do in fact matter.

Mrs. Clinton got that wrong.

[L0oniX]

117. Indeed. She never had a chance for my vote because of what happened to the Dem seats during...

Clinton years in office. IMO the Clinton's brought the Dem party to the right and I resent that.

[Life Long Dem]

29. You haven't seen my security breach post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5218738&mesg_id=5218738

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. Most Of Them Have Been Driven Away...

Remember when you were in school...Ever see kids get picked on... Most of them avoid the kids that pick on them... You don't need a Ph.D in Psychology to figure it out...

[MonkeyFunk]

39. because most of us have tired

of combatting the daily lies and smears from the Obama fans. We're sick of the bullying, the attacks, the ridiculous hate-filled nonsense you guys love so much.

[Nitrogenica]

50. There are freepers on both sides name calling to get us to fight with each other.

Cripes don't you get that?

[Kablooie]

56. Yeah, Cripes, go get that. And get me a tall mocha too while your at it.

sorry. My mind wanders sometimes.

[bigtree]

42. Most posts are attacking Clinton. Making shit up is fun.

[madrchsod]

46. i know of at least 10 who have been tombed

i still think there are plenty of posts supporting hillary...it all averages out over time

[asjr]

54. I think her performance has been

fine. I have liked all the Democratic candidates. I could take up space and time promoting Clinton but there are others here that can't see the forest for the trees. If she says something that is not liked here she gets bashed. I am glad we have an African-American running for president. I like him. But when it comes to voting for president I do not consider gender or nationality. So many people, especially the media get on Hillary's case and try to make us think she really is a "monster." I've been around a long long time and have seen and heard just about everything during a political battle. I also have a mind of my own and Hillary Clinton is my choice. Name-calling and bashing is no way to elect a president. She is one of the most intelligent persons I know of. I trust her. But I also will not bash Obama. We would be lucky with either one.

[BlueIdaho]

55. Stages of Grief

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

[40ozDonkey]

85. HA! I posted that two weeks ago.

When Clinton offered the VP to Obama I could tell they were still in the "Bargaining" phase of the Kubler Ross model. Looking at this weekends posts, I'm thinking they've finally moved to #4,

[anamandujano]

59. The mods tombstoned them all. They don't like back talk.

[mtnsnake]

60. The truth from 1 or 2 Hillary supporters is more powerful than the combined BS of 500 Obamawhiners

so it just doesn't matter that much if the numbers of Hillary's honorable supporters have dwindled for whatever reasons.

As long as there is at least a few Hillary supporters to spread the good word, the Goddess of Peace will reign supreme and ultimately become President, whether or not most Hillary supporters have gone or stayed :smoke:

[Onlooker]

61. That's true for DUers

As an Obama supporter who likes Clinton, too, it's certainly clear that the view of Clinton created in DU is really dark. It's sort of a forum for people to discredit your candidate, and the Obama people greatly outnumber the Clinton people. But, let's not forget there's another world out there where a wider group see the Wright, Rezko, "typical white person," and other mistakes of Obama's as much as they see IWR, stupid McCain comment, and Bill's race-baiting. I think that's the real picture; DU is not a good place if you want to seriously look at how a wider group feels.

[stillcool]

64. I think the animosity

was triggered by stuff like this...

December 10, 2007
Third Clinton Volunteer Knew Of Smear E-Mail
A third volunteer for Hillary Clinton's campaign was aware of a propaganda e-mail alleging that Barack Obama is a Muslim who plans on "destroying the U.S. from the inside out. "Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential Candidacy," the email reads. "Please forward to everyone you know. The Muslims have said they Plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at The highest level."

Two Clinton volunteers, Linda Olson and Judy Rose, have already been asked to resign from the campaign for their roles in forwarding the e-mail. The AP reported yesterday that Olson, a volunteer coordinator in Iowa County, sent a version of the e-mail to 11 people, including Ben Young, a regional field director for Chris Dodd's campaign. Young passed it on to the AP.
http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/12/third_clinton_v.html

Kerrey Apologizes to Obama Over Remark
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=4031436
Kerrey's mention of Obama's middle name and his Muslim roots raised eyebrows because they are also used as part of a smear campaign on the Internet that falsely suggests Obama is a Muslim who wants to bring jihad to the United States.
Obama is a Christian.
The Clinton campaign has already fired two volunteer county coordinators in Iowa for forwarding hoax e-mails with the debunked claim. Last week, a national Clinton campaign co-chairman resigned for raising questions about whether Obama's teenage drug use could be used against him, so Kerrey's comments raised questions about whether the Clinton campaign might be using another high-profile surrogate to smear Obama.

Hillary: Sorry for Any Offense Campaign (Bill) Has Caused
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB65wJ6Rcfs

Bill Clinton Asks for a Second Chance
By Liz Halloran
Posted February 11, 2008
The morning after his wife, Hillary, was routed in three state contests by Sen. Barack Obama in their dead-heat battle for the Democratic nomination, former President Bill Clinton made his case for her before a packed Sunday service at one of the largest black churches in Washington, D.C.
But first he offered an apology of sorts for racially tinged comments he made about Obama and his candidacy that have triggered a backlash in the black community and among many other Democrats.

Clinton invoked his "worship of a God of second chances" in pronouncing himself glad to be at the Temple of Praise, which claims nearly 15,000 members. His invocation of second chances echoed comments he made early last week at black churches in California, where he campaigned for his wife before that state's
Super Tuesday primary, which she won.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-

2008/2008/02/11/bill-clinton-asks-for-a-second-chance.html

Source: Newsday
Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 at 12:04 pm
Barack Obama Accepts Apology From Hillary Clinton
Washington D.C. 12/15/2007 09:17 AM GMT (FINDITT)

Hillary Clinton went straight to Barack Obama with an apology following a staffer's remarks about any skeletons that may be lurking in Obama's closet, pointing out that she had accepted the staffer's resignation over the disparaging remarks. Obama accepted her at her word, according to his campaign staff, and is moving on without letting it interrupt his campaign plans.


Obama is currently leading the polls in Iowa and New Hampshire, the two early primary states often considered key to the process, according to numbers at usaelectionpolls.com, but on a national level Clinton still holds a huge lead. The most recently posted poll results show Obama with 31 percent of the
probable voters in New Hampshire backing him with 29 percent showing support for Clinton.
http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=30629&cat=5

Clinton Camp Pushes O-Bomber Links: Ignores
Her Own Radical Ties
By: Justin Rood

ABC News - The Hillary Clinton campaign pushed to reporters today stories about Barack Obama and his ties to former members of a radical domestic terrorist group -- but did not note that as president, Clinton's husband pardoned more than a dozen convicted violent radicals, including a member of the same group
mentioned in the Obama stories."Wonder what the Republicans will do with this issue," mused Clinton spokesman Phil Singer in one e-mail to the media, containing a New York Sun article reporting a $200 contribution from William Ayers, a founding member of the 1970s group Weather Underground, to Obama in 2001.
In a separate e-mail, Singer forwarded an article from the Politico newspaper reporting on a 1995 event at a private home that brought Obama together with Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, another member of the radical group.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4330128&page=1

Bill Clinton To Apologize At LA Black Churches
Once again, Bill Clinton is ready to repent.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/02/bill-clinton-to-apologize_n_84573.html
On Sunday the former president is scheduled to visit black churches in South Central Los Angeles, where he's expected to offer a mea culpa to those who "dearly loved him" when he was their president, Rep. Diane Watson (D-Calif.) says. Watson, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), tells us she'll usher the former president to more than half a dozen churches in
her district where she says he needs to "renew his relationship" with congregants who were turned off by his racially tinged comments in the days leading up to and following the South Carolina primary. (Such as when Clinton compared Sen. Barack Obama's landslide victory to Jesse Jackson's wins in 1984 and 1988.)

http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20080112_nevada_lawsuit.pdf
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/a-feisty-bill-

clinton-defends-nevada-lawsuit/
CLINTON ALLIES SUPPRESS THE VOTE IN NEVADA...
On Meet the Press on Sunday, Hillary Clinton said her campaign had nothing to do with a lawsuit--written about by Nation Editor Katrina vanden Heuvel--that threatens to prevent thousands of workers from voting in the Nevada caucus on Saturday.
Back in March, the Nevada Democratic Party agreed to set up caucus locations on the Vegas strip for low-income shift workers, many of them members of the state's influential Culinary Union, who commute long distances to work and wouldn't be able to get home in time to caucus. It was an uncontroversial idea until the Culinary Union endorsed Barack Obama and the Nevada State Education Association, whose top officials support Clinton, sued to shut down the caucus sites.
The Clinton camp played dumb until yesterday, when President Clinton came out in favor of the lawsuit.
Clinton's comments drew a heated response from D. Taylor, the head of Nevada's Culinary Union, on MSNBC's Hardball. "He is in support of disenfranchising thousands upon thousands of workers, not even just our members," Taylor said of Clinton. "The teachers union is just being used here. We understand that This is the Clinton campaign. They tried to disenfranchise students in Iowa. Now they're trying to
disenfranchise people here in Nevada, who are union members and people of color and women."
Rank-and-file members of Nevada's teachers union also come out against the lawsuit filed by their leadership. "We never thought our union and Senator Clinton would put politics ahead of what's right for our students, but that's exactly what they're doing," the letter stated. "As teachers, and proudmDemocrats, we hope they will drop this undemocratic lawsuit and help all Nevadans caucus, no matter which candidate they support."
The lawsuit's opponents make a persuasive point. Creating obstacles to voting is what the GOP does to Democrats, not what Democrats should be doing to other Democrats.

Clinton adviser steps down after drug use comments
Earlier Thursday, Clinton personally apologized to rival Obama for Shaheen's remarks.
Obama accepted her apology, according to David Axelrod, the top political strategist for the Obama campaign.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/13/clinton.obama/index.html

January 6, 2008, 5:18 pm
Edwards: No Conscience in Clinton Campaign
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/edwards-no-conscience-in-clinton-campaign/
By Julie Bosman
KEENE, N.H. – John Edwards angrily took on Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton at two news conferences in a row on Sunday, saying that her campaign “doesn’t seem to have a conscience.”

COMPTON, Calif. (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton and her campaign tried to mend ties to black voters Thursday when a key supporter apologized to her chief rival, Barack Obama, for comments that hinted at Obama's drug use as a teenager. The candidate herself, meanwhile, praised the Rev. Martin Luther King and promised to assist with the rebirth of this troubled, largely black city.

Bob Johnson, the founder of Black Entertainment Television, apologized for comments he made at a Clinton campaign rally in South Carolina on Sunday that hinted at Obama's use of drugs as a teenager.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-01-17-

johnson-apology_N.htm?csp=34

Clinton Surrogate Compares Obama Ad to Nazi March
http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080201/cm_thenation/45278988_1
Fri Feb 1, 2:23 PM ET
The Nation -- On a media conference call organized by the Hillary Clinton campaign today, Clinton surrogate Len Nichols compared an Obama health care ad to Nazis.
----------
Accusing political opponents of Nazism is an outrageous smear. Raising the specter of a Nazi march in response to a health care mailer that evokes the insurance industry is so absurd, it would be hard to take the attack seriously, were it not launched from a high profile national campaign conference call in this crucial stretch of the presidential race. And political observers know, of course, that the Clinton Campaign regularly arranges opportunities for surrogates to launch these kind of smears, which are later followed up with apologies. (See: Bob Johnson, Bill Shaheen, Bob Kerrey, and Francine Torge, to name the most recent offenders.) For his part, Nichols did not immediately return a call requesting further comment.
-------------------------
Len Nichols, Director of New America's Health Policy Program, stated, "For nearly 17 years I have worked tirelessly to reform our nation's struggling health system. Today my passion overwhelmed me. I chose an analogy that was wholly inappropriate. I am deeply sorry for any offense that my unfortunate comments may have caused.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[DemocratSinceBirth]

65. I Tire Of Saying This

Folks on the left and right talk to people who think like themselves, get their own views shouted back at them, and consequently think everybody thinks like them...DU is to voters what the Hell's Angels are to motorcycle enthusiasts...



Outside of DU Hillary is plenty popular...If she wasn't she wouldn't have garnered nearly 47% or so of the vote in all the contests held so far and higher if you include MI and FL...

Obama and his supporters ignore that fact at their peril... He can not wins without holding at least 80% or so of them...

[Swamp Rat]

68. She's not popular in New Orleans.

At all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2rtBUfc6YA&feature=related

[DemocratSinceBirth]

70. I Think There About 299,500,000 Americans That Don't Live In New Orleans

And it's pretty fucking sad that she doesn't get any credit for all the dough her husband and Old Man Bush raised for Katrina victims...

[Swamp Rat]

73. You state the obvious... hmm, the person I most recall helping us rebuild the city was John Edwards.

You know, standing next to me hammering up new siding on houses, mucking out the dangerous moldy trash, passing out water to folks... ad infinitum.

Nevertheless, I see Edwards and Obama signs, but NO CLINTON SIGNS.

Btw, New Orleanians appreciate what G.H.W. Bush, Sr. and Bill Clinton did. Try not to rub that in my face again.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

79. I'm Not Rubbing Anything In Anybody's Face.That Wasn't My Intention

I was just making the unremarkable observation that there are plenty rank and file Democrats who like Hillary and Bill...

I just got back from SoCal...My girlfriend is Spanish/Asian so that gives me entry, as a white guy, into a lot of communities... We went to East LA, Little Manilla, the Valley, and Koreatown and found many people fond of the Clintons...

Just because (almost) everybody at DU hates the Clintons doesn't mean they are hated by Democrats everwhere...

[Swamp Rat]

80. ok

Btw, the Latinos I know here in New Orleans do not like Hillary, and are either indifferent about Obama, or they like him but don't know much about him.

"Just because (almost) everybody at DU hates the Clintons doesn't mean they are hated by Democrats everwhere." - Again, you state the obvious. I never said or implied New Orleanians speak for all Americans. In fact, we tend to believe we are somewhat different than the rest of America, having an independent culture and modes of thought. ;)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

81. PEACE

Most of my Latino and Asian friends are pro Hillary... They are in their thirties and forties...Maybe the 18-29 year olds are different ...

[Swamp Rat]

87. ¡Paz!

peace! :hi:

The latinos of which I speak are in their 30s to 50s.... y yo soy Chicano. ;)

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. That's not at all true where I live

or on any of the other blogs I read regularly. You must be surfing a different internet than I am - and living in a different world than I do.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

84. I Don't Think Kansas Has Much In Common With East LA, Koreatown, The Valley,Or Little Manilla

Now that we dispensed of the anecdotal stuff, HRC has about 47% of pop vote and 13,000,000 Democratic voters...

There's a whole world beyond Kansas and the net... There's a whole world of people outside the net who don't fancy themselves philosopher kings and queens who rhapsodize about the world around them...They are too busy raising their kids, paying their bills, and making sure their homes aren't foreclosed on...

[proud2BlibKansan]

88. I don't think you know much about Kansas or Kansas City

I am active in the Democratic party in both Kansas and Missouri. At the county and state levels. I also sit on the Steering Committee for two different DFA groups (in both states) and I am on the board for our state progressive caucus in the Democratic party. And I just got back from a week in DC, where I talked to Democrats from all over the country.

I live in a very red county where Republicans are abandoning their party - in droves. Obama's message of change resonates with them. I wish I had a dime for every Republican who has told me that in the last three months alone. When we caucused on Super Tuesday, the Republicans switched parties to caucus for Obama, not Hillary. And yes, Rush is all over the radio here - three times a day in my city.

In that whole world you don't know about, Hillary is not well-liked. Not at all.

Obama is not my first choice but Hillary is a nightmare.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

108. You Need To Go Into Communities Where Working Class Latinos Live

Hillary won some precincts in East L A by 4-1 and 5-1 margins...

Here's the demographics for Kansas...It is an extraordinarily homogeneous state:


http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/20000.html

Hillary does well with working class folks, older folks, and Latinos... She is not the choice of the elites...

[proud2BlibKansan]

109. LOL I work in a Hispanic community in Missouri

They like Obama.

Obama won Kansas by a 3 to 1 margin over Hillary.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

115. Because Kansas Is A Homogeneous State

Hillary did well in FL, NY, NJ, and CA...

Those are the most heterogeneous states in the nation...

[Tom Rinaldo]

67. Yep. Despite rumours on both sides, it is safe to say

that at least the vast majority of people who post on poltical message boards are not being paid to do so. For many of us it is a type of social interaction, a spirited discussion about matters that matter to us.

And it is an escape both from boredom and from work and chores of every sort. In other words it is supposed to be at least minimally enjoyable to participate at a place like DU. Most of us are don't really relish the chance to enter into bitter conflicts, and even less of us want to enter into such combat out numbered four to one, while often being pegged as either deluded, brainwashed, racists and/or trolls before a word gets written. Why spend time at a place where "la, la, la, la, la, I can't hear you" is rapidly becoming the rallying call for excluding you from even being acknowledged?

On the other hand it can be fun to go some place where lots of your buds are hanging who cheer you on for every clever put down of the other side that you write.

At the very least you should be able to understand how it is reenforcing to go some place where your views are validated rather than laughed at and dismissed. That is the experience Obama supporters have at DU, not Clinton supporters. Why on earth would many Clinton supporters spend much time here anymore except when they are ready for a personally draining fight?

But outside of message boards like this roughly half the Democrats in America are still supporting Hillary Clinton for President.

[JohnnyLib2]

63. I'm letting it sink. Draw your own conclusion.

:evilgrin:

[Skip Intro]

66. You kicked it to say that.

rofl

[Skip Intro]

71. Defending her from what?

[jillan]

72. Could it be that Hillary supporters have moved on from DU?

That maybe we are happier posting elsewhere???

:think:

[MadHound]

78. You're right, most of the Hillary supporters have followed the lead of their candidate

And rather that posting supportive things about their candidate, are now into posting gratuitous attack threads about Obama. It's part of the ongoing "kitchen sink" strategy. They, like Hillary, know that Hillary isn't going to win, so they're trying to best to insure that Obama won't win either. Never have I seen an election like this, where a supposed Democrat is teaming up with the 'Pug nominee to attack another Democrat. Sad and pathetic.

Oh, and they're now into posting great manifestos about how they're not going to vote for Obama, ever, and therefore we should all the sudden reverse our position and nominate Hillary instead. Assigning waaay too much importance to themselves:eyes:

I'll be glad when Hillary finally throws in the towel, these death throes are getting ugly to see.

[Swamp Rat]

86. The DLC (PNAC) Strategy

The DLC was created to "transform" (destroy) the Democratic Party from within.

The DLC = PNAC

Both Hillary Clinton and Joe Lieberman are or have been team leaders/members of the DLC. (http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ka.cfm?kaid=137)

_______________________________________________________________

The co-founder of the DLC is a member of PNAC: Will Marshall

Information on Will Marshall:
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1295

(snip)

With Al From, in 1985 Marshall cofounded the DLC, an important bastion of center-right Democrats that was once chaired by Sen. Joseph Lieberman (I-CT). In 1989, Marshall founded the PPI, a think tank that is affiliated with the DLC. Both organizations are sometimes described as neoconservative for their foreign policy positions. In an analysis of the two groups' stance on the Israeli offensive against Hezbollah in summer 2006, Tom Barry wrote: "In practice, though, DLC/PPI positions differ little from that of the Bush administration. As Israel rained bombs down on Lebanon, the DLC's New Dem Dispatch echoed the neoconservative camp in its plea for the Bush administration to avoid the supposed shame of appeasement in the Middle East. Adopting the same line taken by the Bush administration and the Israeli government, the newsletter recommended that the war be taken to Tehran and Damascus, which 'have become clear threats to regional and world peace, and must be isolated and sanctioned, not appeased.'"

(snip)

Marshall was one of 15 analysts who co-wrote the PPI's October 2003 foreign policy blueprint, "Progressive Internationalism: A Democratic National Security Strategy." Using language that closely mirrors that of the neoconservative-led Project for the New American Century (PNAC), the PPI hailed the "tough-minded internationalism" of past Democratic presidents such as Harry Truman. Like PNAC, which in its founding statement warned of grave present dangers confronting America, the PPI strategy declared that, "Today America is threatened once again" and is in need of assertive individuals committed to strong leadership. The authors' observation that, "like the Cold War, the struggle we face today is likely to last not years but decades," echoes both neoconservative and Bush administration national security assessments. As the "Progressive Internationalism" authors explain, the PPI endorsed the invasion of Iraq "because the previous policy of containment was failing, because Saddam posed a grave danger to America as well as to his own brutalized people, and because his blatant defiance of more than a decade's worth of UN Security Council resolutions was undermining both collective security and international law."

(snip)

Although Marshall calls himself a "centrist," he has associated himself with neoconservative organizations and their radical foreign policy agendas. At the onset of the Iraq invasion, Marshall signed statements issued by the Project for the New American Century calling for the removal of Saddam Hussein, advocating that NATO help "secure and destroy all of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction," and arguing that the invasion "can contribute decisively to the democratization of the Middle East."

Marshall's credentials as a liberal hawk have been well established by his affinity for other PNAC-associated groups, including the U.S. Committee on NATO and the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq. Marshall served on the board of directors of the U.S. Committee on NATO alongside such leading neoconservative figures as Robert Kagan, Richard Perle, Randy Scheunemann, Paul Wolfowitz, Stephen Hadley, Peter Rodman, Jeffrey Gedmin, Gary Schmitt, and the committee's founder and president Bruce Jackson. At the request of the Bush administration, Jackson also formed the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, which, with former DLC chairman Joseph Lieberman serving as co-chair with Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), aimed to build bipartisan support for the liberation, occupation, and democratization of Iraq. Marshall, together with former Democratic Sen. Robert Kerrey of Nebraska (who coauthored "Progressive Internationalism"), represented the liberal hawk wing of the Democratic Party on the committee's neocon-dominated advisory board. Other advisers included James Woolsey, Eliot Cohen, Newt Gingrich, William Kristol, Jeane Kirkpatrick, Joshua Muravchik, Chris Williams, and Richard Perle.

On February 25, 2003, Marshall joined an array of neoconservatives marshaled by the Social Democrats/USA (SD/USA)—a wellspring of neoconservative strategy—to sign a letter to Bush calling for the invasion of Iraq. Marshall and others asked the president to "act alone if that proves necessary" and then, as a follow-up to a military-induced regime change in Iraq, to implement a democratization plan. The SD/USA letter urged the president to commit his administration to "maintaining substantial U.S. military forces in Iraq for as long as may be required to ensure a stable, representative regime is in place and functioning." Others signing the SD/USA letter included Jackson, Kagan, Woolsey, Hillel Fradkin, Rachelle Horowitz, Penn Kemble, Nina Shea, Michael Novak, Clifford May, and Ben Wattenberg.

(snip)

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1295

___________________________________________

Hillary Clinton praises the work of Will Marshall and Al From, among others:


DLC | Speech | July 26, 2005
Remarks of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton to the 2005 DLC National Conversation

(snip)

"So I would like to start by thanking Al From and Will Marshall, Bruce Reed, and all of the people at the DLC and the PPI, not only for the rich legacy of your ideas, which have helped to transform our party and reinvigorate our country, but for your determination to stay focused on the future, laying the groundwork for the next great era of Democratic leadership."

(snip)

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=137&subid=900111&contentid=253482

_________________________________________


Information on the DLC:
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1463

Democratic Leadership Council

(snip)

The DLC was established in the wake of President Ronald Reagan's 1984 landslide victory, in which he won 49 states, over Democrat Walter Mondale. During the Democratic convention in San Francisco, Mondale had successfully beat back a challenge from Gary Hart, who predicted that unless the Democratic Party adopted a new image it would be decisively defeated. Mondale proved unable to respond effectively to charges from the Republican right and neoconservative Democrats that the Democratic Party was the party of progressives-which Jeane Kirkpatrick variously labeled as the "San Francisco Democrats" and the "blame America first" Democrats-who were out of touch with mainstream America. As Dan Balz and Ronald Brownstein concluded in their book Storming the Gates, "Mondale's landslide defeat exposed as a dead end the vision of regaining the White House by mobilizing an army of the disaffected with a message of unreconstructed liberalism."

Pondering the Mondale defeat, a gathering coalition of Southern Democrats and northern neoliberals expressed concerns that the Democratic Party faced extinction, particularly in the South and West, if the party continued to rely on its New Deal message of government intervention and kept catering to traditional constituencies of labor, minorities, and anti-war progressives. In 1985, Al From, an aide to Rep. Gillis Long (D-LA), took the lead in formulating a new messaging strategy for the party's centrists, neoliberals, and conservatives. Will Marshall, at that time Long's policy analyst and speechwriter, worked closely with From to establish the DLC and then became its first policy director.

In his "Saving the Democratic Party" memo of January 1985, From advocated the formation of a "governing council" that would draft a "blueprint" for reforming the party. According to From, the new leadership should aim to create distance from "the new bosses"-organized labor, feminists, and other progressive constituency groups-that were keeping the party from modernizing. From's memo sparked the formation of the Democratic Leadership Council in early 1985. According to Balz and Brownstein, "Within a few weeks, it counted 75 members, primarily governors and members of Congress, most of them from the Sunbelt, and almost all of them white; liberal critics instantly dubbed the group 'the white male caucus.'"

(snip)

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1463

[L0oniX]

130. Excellent and exactly why Clinton never had a chance for my vote.

[rainbow4321]

82. It's those damn factful website links Obama supporters keep using

Like the one I put up yesterday that showed HRC's FEC monthly IOU list.. Took hours for a single HRC rebuttal to show up...and even that didn't come til someone else wrote "um, why aren't the HRC supporters defending this/explaining it away"..and then the weak rebuttals showed up in other threads, not mine.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5209719&mesg_id=5209719


BTW, included in the list, owing $500,000 to Aetna and Bluecross/Blueshield (over $200,000 to each). But that wasn't as bad as giving IOU's to deaf interpretor services, Boys and Girls' Club, and the YWCA. Yes, those were in February, but March doesn't look much better as far as who is still owed IOU's.

[Two Americas]

83. OK here is one

Senator Clinton was my ninth choice in candidates when this started - a distant ninth - but I now feel compelled to defend her and her supporters.

I don't care which candidate is the nominee - promoting either in the general will be a tough job, and there is little or no discussion abiout that here - but I do care about the direction of the party and I do think it matters what supporters and followers of a candidate do and say and I do care about what we have to take into the general.

I am very disturbed by the behavior of many Obama supporters, and I think it is crippling the party going into the general.

I think the Clinton supporters are being badly abused here, and that this is the reason you are not seeing many posts from them.

Those of us who are not in either camp are not being listened to by the Obama supporters, and are being attacked if we express any reservations about the Obama movement, so this is not merely a matter of battling for Obama over Clinton.

I support Senator Clinton and her supporters as fellow Democrats who are under siege and who are being unfairly and maliciously attacked.

[MadHound]

90. One thing that I think that you're failing to take into consideration

In many ways, Hillary supporters have brought this abuse on themselves. For over a year, in fact since November '06, the Hillary supporters browbeat and bullied people around here badly and repeatedly. If you weren't a Hillary supporter, you were open to all sorts of nasty attacks. Many non-Hillary supporters dropped out during that time period, rather than having to take the constant harassment and bullying.

Thus, in many ways this is karma coming back to bite them in the ass. It may not be right or fair, but the fact of the matter is that if they hadn't been such assholes for so long, they would be receiving much gentler treatment. As it is, they made their bed:shrug:

Sure, it would be nice to see the kinder aspects of human nature exert themselves, but frankly that doesn't happen in politics all that often outside of books and movies. However this should be a lesson for the future "presumptive" nominees. Don't count your delegates before the primaries are held.

[Two Americas]

96. no doubt

What you just posted is exactly what I am objecting to.

You are using the age-old justifications and rationales for every sort of bullying, abuse, and even war.

"They brought it on themselves."

"Mommy she hit me first!"

"They deserve it because of what they did."

"Payback is a bitch."

"She had it coming."

I am not keeping score, and when Clinton supporters were out of line, I challenged them on that and still do. I don't care who is worse, nor who started it.

I am saying that right now, the abuse from Obama supporters is worse by a factor of ten than anything I have seen before in 40 years between Democrats. The fact that Obama supporters think they have ten times more justification for acting the way they do - which I see posted everyday - supports my observation.

Claiming that you have endured an extraordinary amount of provocation - or imagining that you have - does not justify extraordinary retaliation. But is a clear admission that the retaliation has in fact been extraordinary.

[unapatriciated]

107. agree but why should I endure their Karma?

If you dare to question anything regarding Obama or his policies instead of intelligent answers, you get bulling and name calling. I think it is time for all to act like grownups if we want to seat a Democrat in November.

[high density]

92. I see the same things posted over and over and over

And I explain the delegate math over and over and over.

Some people just don't seem to get it.


Nobody supporting Clinton seems to understand how primaries work. Your candidate doesn't always last to the end, even though in a perfect world everybody would get to vote for who they want. Clinton was expecting that she would be the only one left after Super Tuesday, but instead she found the equation turned upside down and has refused to accept this fact ever since. All of the campaigns accepted this system when they started yet Clinton wants to think that super delegates are going to destroy the party to coronate her as the winner.

[proud2BlibKansan]

111. "to coronate her as the winner"

That's it in a nutshell. They think she is entitled to the nomination. She doesn't have to work for it, she certainly doesn't have to EARN it, because she is ENTITLED to it.

It's the worst form of narcissism.

[davidlynch]

99. Let It Sink is clearly working n/t

[BenDavid]

102. why not ask a question so someone might be able to

answer your "not many posts defending Hillary now".

If hrc loses this nomination I will still be proud as many millions of hrc supporters. What you obama folks have got to wonder, are we going to support the bigot Obama in November. I still say if the whoremedia had reported just whom played the race card and race baited, it would be as we suspect, OBAMA!

[jackson_dem]

103. The thuggish tactics of Obamites have run off most Clinton supporters

This place used to be 80-20 for Obama after Edwards left and his supporter en masse switched to the candidate most responsible for Edwards losing. It is now 95-5 for Obama. Obamites will not rest until it is 100-0 for Obama. They use every tactic in the book to achieve this.

[Perry Logan]

105. Bingo. And look at these posts! They're actually proud of themselves.

[OzarkDem]

110. Some of us have lives

We don't spend every waking moment here or on other Obama worshipping forums.

Also, many Clinton supporters and Dem women are now posting in other forums. Taking their donations with them, too.

[saltpoint]

116. I think she's lost support just since this morning, in fact.

With no end in sight.

[Lucinda]

118. Not mine.

Some of us just don't bother anymore...

[saltpoint]

124. Hi, wlucinda. I'll vote for her if she wins the nom, but I'm definitely

not enthused about the way she's running her campaign.

The Ferraro thing was over the top.

[tabasco]

120. They can only try to bring Obama down because they cannot elevate Hillary.

The Clinton campaign has become the typical gutter politics campaign, wherein a weak candidate only tries to destroy their opponent, not elevate themselves.

[Mags]

122. You Bo folks and Skinner should be very proud, you have finally

successed in making Clinton Folks unwanted here. You have trashed, tarnished and battered anyone here that had the guts to speak in favor of her. you have the board almost to your self .. I will always be a Hillary supporter, and you better hope that the BO people aren't left alone without support from Clintonites to get your man to the WH. Personally, I don't think BO has a chance, especially with the Dems. I know with winning them over. But you guys ditched us sometime ago, so If he gets to the GE , he and you guys are on your on. Have fun.

[saltpoint]

125. Senator Clinton had every opportunity to persuade and convince

Democratic primary and caucus voters to join her campaign and her cause.

A majority of those Democratic voters chose someone else.

There's your hinge.

[dorktv]

126. With this line: accept that the time for a female president must wait a while longer.

That is it for me. I swear, I have been as patient as I could be but that takes the cake.

Go cheney yourself.

[apocalypsehow]

127. Save for the, ah, *ahem*, more persistent "concerned Democrats" currently smearing Senator Obama,

most of the Hillary supporters have recognized that their smarmy tactics earn them nothing but well-deserved contempt and ignored status from the rest of us. So they have slouched away to anti-Obama internet cesspools where they sit around all day and talk about how sexist everyone who doesn't support Hillary is.

Sometimes one or two will pop back into a thread like this to self-righteously bray that they are depriving us of their wonderful commentary because we're just too "hateful" (read: don't support their candidate) for their delicate temperaments.

But mostly, they just lurk and fume - which is a good thing.

[crankychatter]

131. I'm not doing the iggy thing but I'm not engaging w/the racebaiting etc

I'm with ya... it's working... kicking and recommending

they are in a frenzy... they deserve it, but WE don't deserve THEM.

[crankychatter]

132. Frenzy... even posing as Obama supporters but wanting to talk Race/Gender/Smears

yup... frenzied