It's Far From Over.

[berni_mccoy]

Obama supporters, including myself, should not underestimate Clinton. This primary is not over. Far from it. And the kitchen-sink tactics have had an impact. Obama is back on a rise, but don't expect that to dissuade the Clinton campaign from trying some other dirty trick. The worst mistake that can be made is moving forward as if it is over. But if we turn our backs on Clinton, who has clearly made the decision to go the distance, despite the odds, then there is no doubt that her corrupt staff will take advantage of it.

When someone has threatened you, attacked and done damage, you simply do not turn your back on them and walk away. You ensure that they can not do so again. Clinton is definitely down. She failed in her first attempt and got knocked to the ground for it. Obama stayed on his feet even though he took a pounding. They underestimated him and they took a direct hit for an 8-count on the mat. But they are not out yet. At any point, they could come in with a left hook to knock down the champ.

Running the numbers, Clinton need only win a consistent 58% in all of the remaining contests. There's a small chance of that happening, but it can. And that is assuming she does nothing more damaging, which would be an incredibly bad assumption to make.

Keep your eye on them. Stay vigilant. See the fight through. Show them who the true winner is.

Obama has shown incredible strength and endurance. For those who claimed he isn't experienced or vetted enough, that argument is fading fast as a valid one. Obama has proven, through trial-by-fire, that he's ready to fight those who would hit below the belt. And he does so honestly and with integrity.

I believe this is good not only for the power and strength that it affords Obama to demonstrate, but it also gives a voice to the remaining states. Let's commit to seeing this thing through until June when all primaries have been completed. And when we've won, we will truly know it. And the people will have judged, accordingly.

[LWolf]

1. I hope it's far from over.

I hope it's not over when I get to cast my primary vote in late May.

I hope it's not over when the convention opens.

I hope it's not over until someone who is neither Hillary nor Obama emerges from the convention the Democratic nominee.

I'll help that process along if it's not over by the time my primary arrives.

[VeraAgnes]

13. It's over and we all know it.

If Clinton had anything in her Louie Vuitton bag...she would of pulled it out by now.

[LWolf]

19. We don't "ALL" know it.

If that's the case, then I will start shopping for a 3rd party or independent candidate in November. Without a brokered convention, and a nominee that is neither HRC nor Obama, that's what I'll be doing anyway.

Or, I could wait until one of them actually has the "magic number" of delegates before taking such drastic action.

[VeraAgnes]

51. We will just have to wait and see then.

O8)

[LWolf]

54. We'll do that.

I'll hold on to my small shred of hope that the convention can produce a Democratic candidate I can vote for until it's officially over. If it's HRC or Obama, you'll be working on the GE without me.

[Nitrogenica]

2. We could negative campaign with the biggest bucket of filth she's ever seen but

we shouldn't do that, and won't.

We could be talking about Lewinski and Bill "loose in the White House" and use every right wing smear she's going to face from the righties.

We could talk about Bank and mail fraud, violations of campaign finance laws, illegal foreign campaign funding, improper exports of sensitive technology, physical violence and threats of violence, solicitation of perjury, intimidation of witnesses, bribery of witnesses, attempted intimidation of prosecutors, perjury before congressional committees, lying in statements to federal investigators and regulatory officials, flight of witnesses, obstruction of justice, bribery of cabinet members, real estate fraud, tax fraud, drug trafficking, failure to investigate drug trafficking, bribery of state officials, use of state police for personal purposes, exchange of promotions or benefits for sexual favors, using state police to provide false court testimony, laundering of drug money through a state agency, false reports by medical examiners and others investigating suspicious deaths, the firing of the RTC and FBI director when these agencies were investigating Clinton and his associates, failure to conduct autopsies in suspicious deaths, providing jobs in return for silence by witnesses, drug abuse, improper acquisition and use of 900 FBI files, improper futures trading, murder, sexual abuse of employees, false testimony before a federal judge, shredding of documents, withholding and concealment of subpoenaed documents, fabricated charges against (and improper firing of) White House employees, inviting drug traffickers, foreign agents and participants in organized crime to the White House.

But we won't.

I think we want to talk about issues that are affecting working families. They are too important to ignore.

[TheDeathadder]

3. Go ahead and try

there's a reason why you won't, but go ahead and make more points like this about another member of the democratic party, just don't start saying "Let It Sink" when something bad comes out about your guy

[Nitrogenica]

5. Sounds like you're making a negative assumption there.

"there's a reason why you won't"

Tell me, what is the reason?

[TheDeathadder]

8. well one

it's pretty lame to go "we won't say this" - and then you follow up with saying it.

that aside you can rant all you want about Clinton, because Obama will never do it because he's trying to keep every can of worms about him closed.

not to mention if you went around telling everybody you know and better yet everybody you don't know your list of "Hillary this and that" you'd just end up looking like a ranting maniac.

But bu all means...do it. Go out and tell the world. Please!! Spend all day online telling people. better yet go out in public and grab people by the arms and inform them about "HILLARY!!"

See how many people say "get the hell away from me"

God I love people who belong to "UNITY" groups, I love off the wall people.

[Nitrogenica]

11. First off, it's not my list, Second, I believe Hillary or Barack will destroy McCain.

Again you are making many negative assumptions about me and my character with this.

"But bu all means...do it. Go out and tell the world. Please!! Spend all day online telling people. better yet go out in public and grab people by the arms and inform them about "HILLARY!!"

I think that's kind of a sick thing to say to your fellow Democrat.

I think I made my point, and that's the only time I've used that list on DU.

Prove me wrong, pal. Search for another post I've made here that says that.

[TheDeathadder]

21. sorry

I didn't know this was your first time using the tired old rant list about Clinton that used everyday on DU.

Sorry again.

Please resume your ranting

[StClone]

6. Bad go find it!

Obama is as clean as they come unless you are a master of invention -- lust for power and money will lubricate creativity (the Reverend Scandal is one such) and its end products may work to pull down perceptions. But as for truth, real importance and consideration its a breath against the storm.

[TheDeathadder]

10. "Obama is as clean as they come"

Hey I got a bridge to sell you?

hey did you know the moon is flat like a dime?

Did you know the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus have a poker game going on in my basement?

Hey did you know Obama will unify the country?

Sorry just joking with you, none of that's true.

[Nitrogenica]

12. You are spinning out of control. Get a grip, man.

[TheDeathadder]

You are spinning out of control. Get a grip, man.

[Nitrogenica]

20. Wow so now it's "I know you are but what am I"? Childish.

Welcome to my ignore list. Sorry. I'll take you off in a couple months if you're still here.

Bye bye.

[TheDeathadder]

22. that's awesome

first the Clinton Rant and then the Obama Ignore. never fails.

Thank you :)

[bluedawg12]

16. You need to prove what you posted:

"We could be talking about Lewinski and Bill "loose in the White House" and use every right wing smear she's going to face from the righties.

We could talk about Bank and mail fraud, violations of campaign finance laws, illegal foreign campaign funding, improper exports of sensitive technology, physical violence and threats of violence, solicitation of perjury, intimidation of witnesses, bribery of witnesses, attempted intimidation of prosecutors, perjury before congressional committees, lying in statements to federal investigators and regulatory officials, flight of witnesses, obstruction of justice, bribery of cabinet members, real estate fraud, tax fraud, drug trafficking, failure to investigate drug trafficking, bribery of state officials, use of state police for personal purposes, exchange of promotions or benefits for sexual favors, using state police to provide false court testimony, laundering of drug money through a state agency, false reports by medical examiners and others investigating suspicious deaths, the firing of the RTC and FBI director when these agencies were investigating Clinton and his associates, failure to conduct autopsies in suspicious deaths, providing jobs in return for silence by witnesses, drug abuse, improper acquisition and use of 900 FBI files, improper futures trading, murder, sexual abuse of employees, false testimony before a federal judge, shredding of documents, withholding and concealment of subpoenaed documents, fabricated charges against (and improper firing of) White House employees, inviting drug traffickers, foreign agents and participants in organized crime to the White House."

[Nitrogenica]

18. There is no proof, just smears and he/said she said bullshit.

That's my whole point.

Why even go there. What happened to respecting your opposition when opposing those you share ideology with?

[bluedawg12]

23. What happened to not posting smears

and then claim: Why even go there?


"There is no proof, just smears and he/said she said bullshit."

Nice. Then, what was oyur point?

[Nitrogenica]

25. If you don't "get it" fine, but good luck finding one other instance

of me posting that list.

I'm not the monster you wish I was.

My point is that the smears Hillary faces from Obama supporters are nothing in comparison from the lowlife smears from the righties she will get in the General Election.

If Obama's supporters were like that, you would see the biggest bucket of filth you've ever seen repeated endlessly.

Don't act like you don't know that list is coming from the right.

Do you get my freakin' point?

[bluedawg12]

33. You don't have a freaking point to get.

Get it?

"I'm not the monster you wish I was."

You don't have a clue what I wish or don't wish. Get it?


"My point is that the smears Hillary faces from Obama supporters are nothing in comparison from the lowlife smears from the righties she will get in the General Election."

So you post a litany of crap here about another Democrat?

Is that respect for your fellow Democrats?

"If Obama's supporters were like that, you would see the biggest bucket of filth you've ever seen repeated endlessly."

YOU just posted the biggest bucket of filth - well, maybe not the biggest- but the day is not done for you is it?

"Don't act like you don't know that list is coming from the right."

Don't tell me how to act.

Don't pretend that the RW won't beat your guy up with issues that are a killer in the GE.

"Do you get my freakin' point?"

Is it a point or is it now a "freakin' point?"

Are you losing your temper? LMAO.

Well, if you didn't contradict yourself there might be somethng to "get" as it is, your deeds speak for themselves.

[Nitrogenica]

45. You're kind of a dick.

Sorry, I'll have to ignore you now.

Bye Bye.

[StClone]

4. It's over

Huckabee in a dress.

OUR problem is she is still at step one in the process of grief and we will be dragged along until this lovely, strong-willed person accepts the inevitable.

Hillary's problem now is the same anyone has with in dealing with a loss. She has lost her dream-devotion-purpose-reason but she needs to move on for us all to heal and meet the real enemy -- Old Man McCane:

1-Denial <--Hillary is here
2-Anger
3-Bargaining
4-Depression-overwhelming feelings of hopelessness, frustration, bitterness, self pity, mourning loss
5-Acceptance <-- She needs to get here fast.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

7. Anger was "Shame on you!"

Bargaining was "Want the VP slot?"

So we're probably at "Depression."

[StClone]

9. Confused state of loss

That's a problem in itself.

[saltpoint]

14. Every once in a while an under-dog roars up and takes the lead and the

trophy.

Russ Feingold came from well behind in his first Senate race, for example, using wit and humor to best two better-known opponents for the Dem nom.

But Feingold's impressive come-from-behind win didn't come on the heels of losing a MASSIVE lead, as Hillary Clinton has done.

Huge lead, fat wallet, international name recognition, and she still lost them all. She's running behind Obama in delegates, no better than even or worse in polling, increasingly behind in endorsements, is virtually broke, and her campaign heavy-hitter strategists have turned on each other "like rats in a slumfire," to steal from Hunter S. Thompson's wonderful phrase.

Clearly, Mrs. Clinton has lost the nomination.

[DontTreadOnMe]

15. It's over.

The only person who doesn't see it yet is Hillary.
And that hurts the Democratic Party.

It's time to tell Hillary.

[bluedawg12]

17. tell the American people it's over

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/

RCP Average
Obama46.3%Clinton43.6%Obama +2.7%

General Election: McCain vs. Obama
RCP Average
Obama (D)44.6%McCain (R)45.9%Und6.2%McCain +1.3%

General Election: McCain vs. Clinton
RCP Average
Clinton (D)45.7%McCain (R)46.3%Und6.0%McCain +0.6%

[KittyWampus]

24. do you understand the concept of primaries and how they work?

[bluedawg12]

37. Why don't you tell us?

And while your at it, stop any further primaries- we don't need all this fuss with votes and allowing the people to be heard.

[high density]

41. The people are being heard

And in much greater masses than 2004. This is just the fact of how our staggered primary voting works. Not everybody always gets to vote for who they want and that's just an accepted part of the process. I wanted to vote for Dodd, but he was gone by the time my caucus came around. I'm all for a single primary day, no caucuses, etc, but it's a bit late for that to happen this year!

Just show us a realistic scenario where Hillary Clinton catches up and surpasses Barack Obama in pledged delegates. Obama only has to have 37% wins to keep his lead in pledged delegates. Clinton needs the opposite of that, and I don't know anybody at this point who believes that can happen.

[high density]

38. Are we going to have a national revote now to see if Clinton can win that?

:rofl:

[bluedawg12]

39. We can just wait for Pennsylvania and see how she does

unless of course we should cancel all primaries and start the coronation now! :rofl:

[high density]

42. So Pennsylvania is the only state that matters now?

Right.

[slinkerwink]

26. that's why us supporters have to destroy Clinton's electability

Simply find a primary challenger, and raise millions of dollars for that primary challenger in her Senate seat.

[ClassWarrior]

27. It's over here at DU, but it's just getting started on the ground...

Pennsylvania's just around the corner, fellow O-bots! Take action this week:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/actioncenter

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

32. .

[my3boyz]

28. I don't know where you got the 58% number. That is not

what the media is saying. It was 60+%. I think it is about 65% or something like that.

[XemaSab]

44. Here:

http://www.forbes.com/2008/02/27/obama-clinton-election-oped-cx_jb_0227delegates.html

[Citizen Kang]

29. This thing ends May 6

Obama will win Indiana and North Carolina. There will be no way for Clinton to catch him at that point. The big hitters of the party (Pelosi, Gore, Edwards) will then endorse Obama. Superdelegates will then start to endorse Obama.


This thing ends May 6. About two months later than it should have.

[LWolf]

30. Too bad I don't vote until May 20th.

I'll hold out hope that it's still close until it's my turn, thanks.

[Citizen Kang]

31. You can still vote on May 20

But I suspect there will be only one viable candidate in the race at that point.

However, Obama is going to destroy Clinton in Oregon, so maybe May 20 is the icing on the cake.

[LWolf]

34. If it's not a done deal on May 20th,

I will probably vote for Clinton, and perhaps encourage others to do so, as well. Not that I want to see her the nominee; just to counterbalance a vote for Obama and help send us to the brokered convention I prefer.

I know that Obama holds sway west of the cascades. I don't understand why so many great liberal people think he is somehow more liberal than Clinton; I find them both unacceptably centrist/corporate/3rd way, myself. But that's not the perception. Those democrats east of the cascades tend to be more conservative than those in the west, probably reflecting the more conservative outlook of the general area. Who knows; with McCain a done deal, maybe some republicans here will cross over, reregistering in time to counterbalance the republican vote for obama in the west. That would be poetic justice.

It will be interesting, anyway, if it's not already a done deal.

[Citizen Kang]

43. What do you hope to get from a brokered convention?

Other than the implosion of the party and President McCain?

[LWolf]

53. I hope to get a good candidate who can unify the party

and win in November.

In other words, someone who is not HRC nor Obama.

[XemaSab]

47. Obama holds sway on both sides of the Cascades

He won every single county in Washington state.

Every single county.

[LWolf]

52. That's not what I hear where I am.

Outside of the many who still love Bush, it's a draw. Of course, that's not an official poll; just those people who happen to be talking politics where I can here them.

Interestingly, I've been exposed to frequent arguments between Obama and HRC supporters, which I think is funny, because I can jump in and argue against either one of them without turning a hair.

That's what I'd be doing, if I thought Oregon wasn't leaning Obama. I'd argue against Obama with Obama people and HRC with HRC people.

Instead, I argue against Obama with Obama people, and just stay quiet with HRC people. I can't argue FOR her, but I don't work to argue against her.

That will change if she somehow draws ahead of Obama by the time we get to May; then I'll argue vehemently against her.

Acting to balance the scales in favor of a brokered convention and a candidate I can actually argue (and vote)FOR.

[Window]

35. Excellent post Berni. I put nothing past Hillary.

I don't trust her at all, and I never count my chickens before they hatch.



Peace:thumbsup:

[DrFunkenstein]

36. Hillary Clinton Didn't Get 58% of Her Home State, Let Alone North Carolina

This thing is done.

[cooolandrew]

40. They may well do so but we will not fear them we will continue to defend our candidate to the hilt.

[InsultComicDog]

46. it's...

[greyghost]

48. She's the only one who doesn't realize, IT'S OVER!

[ecstatic]

49. True. The monsters always come back to life

At least in the movies...

[dchill]

50. It's Over.

Roy Orbison/William Dees

Your baby doesn't love you anymore

Golden days before they end,
Whisper secrets to the wind
Your baby won't be near you anymore.

Tender nights before they fly
And falling stars that seem to cry
Your baby doesen't want you anymore
It's over.

It breaks your heart in two
To know she's been untrue
But, oh what will you do?
When she says to you there's someone new
We're through, we're through.

It's over
It's over
it's over

All the rainbows in the sky
Start to weep and say goodbye
You won't be seeing rainbows anymore.

Setting suns before they fall
They come to you. That's all, that's all
But you'll see lonely sunsets after all.

It's over, It's over, it's over
It's over