Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Has Hillary done her career long term damage?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
galaxy21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:31 PM
Original message
Has Hillary done her career long term damage?
I was thinking about her senate seat...surely she relies on the black vote to carry her to victory in NY? Safe to say, she, or Bill rather, have done a good job alienating those voters.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for her right now, but it would be pretty bad if she ended up losing the nomination and her seat in the senate on top of it all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
BklynChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm a NYer never voting for her again for US Senate
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. She might do the Ted Kennedy thing...a party mainstay, but never a viable candidate.
Which may not be a bad thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
galaxy21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Ted Kennedy is more a novelty act than a elder statesman
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Do you really think so? What do MA people think?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. that novelty has been re-elected for decades
time and time again. He will be remembered as a great statesman, like it or not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. A novelty act? After all the years he has been in the senate?
By definition, he is an elder statesman.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
34. oh boy, aren't you clever nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
43. He is absolutely not a novelty act, but one who has influenced nearly every liberal piece of
legislation since the 1960s. He more than anyone deserves credit for S-CHIP, being there at the beginning sponsoring a bill with Kerry, then re-doing it to be a passable bi-partisan bill with Hatch.

Here, in a tribute on Kennedy's 75th birthday, his fellow Senator from MA recounts Kennedy's achievement:

From the Senate record:

'Mr. KERRY. Mr. President, next week, on February 22, while the Senate is on recess, my senior colleague and friend TED KENNEDY will celebrate his 75th birthday, all of this in a year in which he has already marked an extraordinary milestone--45 years of service to Massachusetts and his country in the U.S. Senate.

Senator Kennedy began his career setting a high standard when it comes to birthdays. It was when he reached the minimum constitutional age, 30, that he first came to the Senate--1 of just 16 Senators elected at such a tender age from a total of over 1,895 Senators in all of American history. By his 70th birthday he was one of just 28 Senators to ever cast over 10,000 votes.

But what we celebrate along with Ted at 75--Democrats and Republicans, all in awe of a lifetime of achievement--is the way in which literally every year since he has been marking the passage of time by passing landmark legislation.

The Boston Globe put it best, writing not long ago that ``in actual, measurable impact on the lives of tens of millions of working families, the elderly, and the needy, TED belongs in the same sentence with Franklin Roosevelt.''

That sentence is not constructed lightly--it is the measure of a public servant who doesn't know the meaning of the words ``you can't pass it''--``it can't happen''--``impossible.''

It is the measure of a Senator who--on every issue of importance: health care, war and peace, children, education, civil rights, the rights of women--can always be counted on to be in the lead, challenging on the issues, and fighting for the principles which guide a party and lift up our country.

From his maiden speech in the Senate demanding an end to the filibuster of the original Civil Rights Act, there has not been a significant policy accomplishment in Washington over four decades that hasn't borne his fingerprints and benefited from his legislative skill and leadership. His is the record of progressive politics in our era. On all the great fights that call us to stand up and be counted, from the minimum wage to Robert Bork and Sam Alito, Ted didn't just hear the call to duty he led the charge.

Run down the list--the rights of the disabled a most personal cause for Ted--who for far too long were left in the shadows or left to fend for themselves, TED KENNEDY wrote every landmark piece of legislation that today prohibits discrimination against those with a disability.

AIDS--when a whole lot of politicians were afraid to say the word, Ted passed a bill providing emergency relief to the thirteen cities hardest hit by the AIDS epidemic.

Guaranteed access to health coverage for 25 million Americans who move from one job to another or have preexisting medical conditions wouldn't have happened without TED KENNEDY.

Without TED KENNEDY, there wouldn't have been a bilingual education in the United States for the 5 million students who today have a brighter future because they are learning English in our schools.

Without TED KENNEDY, we wouldn't have lowered the voting age to 18 and ended the hypocrisy that 18-year-olds were old enough to die for their country in Vietnam but not old enough to vote for its leadership at home.

Without TED KENNEDY, we wouldn't be the world's leader in cancer research and prevention--as personal and meaningful an issue as there is in all the world for TED KENNEDY, not just a father, but a loving father of two cancer survivors.

Without TED KENNEDY, we wouldn't have had title XI which opened the doors of competition and opportunity to a generation of women athletes all across our country.

TED is such an extraordinary public servant not only because he knows who he is, and sticks to his guns, never bending with the political currents, but because he has in his life and in his career proven again and again that progress doesn't happen by accident, it doesn't happen when you stick to the text of the latest opinion poll or the whispers of the morning focus group; it happens when leaders define and fight the fights that need fighting--when public servants of conscience and conviction refuse to take no for an answer. That is why for TED KENNEDY, the ``cause'' has not just ``endured''--but triumphed, again and again.

Agree with him or not, and we all know that TED has never been afraid to be a majority of one, TED is such an extraordinary leader because he has excelled while completing the work in the U.S. Senate that so many others were afraid to begin.

And, in being a standard-bearer for an ideal, an ideology, a view of the world, TED has also become--as Clymer wrote--``not just the leading senator of his time, but one of the greats in its history, wise in the workings of this singular institution, especially its demand to be more than partisan to accomplish much.''

His partnerships with his fellow Senators are well-known and oft-recited, testimony to his skill and to his convictions. From Howard Baker, Jacob Javits, and Hugh Scott to ARLEN SPECTER, Dan Quayle, Orrin Hatch, Alan Simpson, and Nancy Kassebaum and John McCain--TED has never hesitated to cross the aisle to accomplish his goals--to further a common agenda--finding always--that ideologies, however incompatible in the currency of conventional wisdom--can be put aside for a greater good when Senators--however different--work in good faith to make their country a better place, to improve the lives of their fellow Americans.

TED has always believed you can put aside partisanship--overcome division--and that faith in the ability to come together has mattered most in some of the most trying and divisive times our Nation has endured.

I don't just say this; I have lived it. Through the eyes of an activist, there is often a shocking and gaping gap between those in politics who talk the talk and those who walk the walk. It has been that way on Iraq; it was that way in the days of Vietnam. But I remember to this day that more than 35 years ago, after I had committed my life to organizing my fellow veterans to end the war, too few of our leaders were willing to listen, and even fewer were willing to stand with those Vietnam veterans who were standing up against the war. April, 1971--thousands upon thousands of veterans gathered on the Mall. The Nixon White House spread rumors that the veterans would riot and turn violent. The administration even tried to kick us off The Mall. And on that difficult night, when we didn't know if we were going to jail or we were going to demonstrate as we had come here to do, TED KENNEDY was among the brave few Senators who walked down from his office to sit and talk and listen to veterans who describe the realities they had found in Vietnam and why that war had to end.

He reached out and demonstrated--in his actions as well as his words--that we had a right to tell truths many would have preferred we left unspoken, government had a responsibility to listen.

He is listening still--to the voices his conscience tells him must never be ignored.

He hears of children who go through their early years without health care and come to school unable to learn. And he has made their care his crusade. And so millions more children see a doctor today because of TED KENNEDY--and millions more will before he is done.

He hears of workers punching a time clock--doing backbreaking work over the course of a lifetime. And he has made their economic security his agenda. And so millions of workers have seen wages increased over partisan objections, seen pensions protected when others said leave it to the market, seen Social Security protected while others said privatize it, and seen a safe workplace and the right to organize put back on the Nation's agenda--and these issues will again and again be advanced by TED KENNEDY.

That is the drive--the passion--the special commitment we celebrate today--not a new ideology or a new age vision, but an age old belief that Americans have a responsibility to each other--that America is still in the process of becoming--and that we are privileged to serve here to make that dream real for all Americans.

TED KENNEDY is the most prolific legislator in American history, but he is something more. Robert Kennedy once said the most meaningful word in all the English language is ``citizen.'' No one has lived out the meaning of that most meaningful word more than his younger brother.

For that and so much more that makes this 75th birthday special, we honor our friend, our colleague, and a great citizen, TED KENNEDY.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OhioBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. will she want to remain a Senator
or was that just to pad her resume? I'm not sure.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zonkers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. Somewhere along the line her determination became ruthlessness. This has
caused more damage to the Clintion legacy than Bill's indiscretion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gidney N Cloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
7. She's now proven herself to be a force to be reckoned with. She could go >
> back to the Senate with that cache to really get things done.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I think she has proven herself to be about one person and one person
only. I doubt that the Dem establishment will consider her very trustworthy. A lot of them never considered Bill trustworthy. Now they can see how they work as a team and it isn't pretty.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. i supported the clintons for 8 years when
they were in office, but after what i've seen from BOTH of them in the last few months, i am greatly disappointed.

i'm an obama supporter and if hillary were the nominee, i would have supported her. i can't say that now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gidney N Cloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. She'd be returning to the Senate, not the 12 Apostles. What's trustworthiness got to do with it?
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. She'll be ok. No one will be able to challenge her for that seat
She's got too much power and resources.

As far as a future Presidential run, I do think that's out of the question now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
galledgoblin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
35. bingo
in NY, if you get a seat, you pretty much hold that seat until you retire.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #8
38. I think it largely depends on how this election goes ...
... and the responsibility laid at her feet. She certainly hasn't improved her reputation in NY this cycle.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #8
39. Agree on one point, disagree on another. If Barak looses, then she will run in 4, prolly win, and
Barak is a lifetime Senator (which is a shame cause he is so young.)


On the otherhand if Barak wins, then Hillary is done and is a lifetime senator.


One way or the other, this race ends the ladder climbing for someone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #8
40. You're wrong. Her Dem challenger in 2006 got 20% of the vote.
And Tasini had around $200,000 raised compared to her $45M. A well-funded challenger could certainly take her seat in 2012. I am looking to someone like RFK Jr., someone with the name recognition and integrity to pull off a victory. Maybe John Hall would consider a run.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Unsane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. absolutely
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. I hope not, but that is to be seen....
I don't live in her state, but I would find it very difficult to vote for her after this campaign.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. Without the Presidency on her agenda
she could become a real force in the Senate. There's certainly a leadership vacuum up there that's crying out to be filled.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'm in NY and so far I would still vote for her in the senate
that could change if she keeps endorsing repubs over dems
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
15. She will never be a viable presidential candidate again.
She knows that and that is why she is acting so desperately.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. exactly. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
17. Running for President rarely hurts a career.
At least, not in recent history. It works for decent politicians, like Dennis Kucinich, who handily fended off primary threats to his House seat this year after running for the job he probably ought to have, and it works for evil losers as well, like Patrick Buchanan and Pat Robertson.

I think the reason is that to put together any sort of a national campaign at all one has to have either the organizational skills or the delegation skills to make such a campaign work, however briefly. The ones who make it to the general election usually have both, our present disaster excepted.

Those who don't make it that far turn their skills to smaller pursuits, usually with a fat Rolodex of friends, donors and abundant success. Mrs. Clinton should have the New York Senate sewed up for as long as she wishes to keep it.

The title "President" may yet be in her future, as President pro tempore of the Senate, ca. 2022.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gidney N Cloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. I think you got it. And now for Hillary to make that happen she probably needs to >
gather up IOUs for as graceful an exit as still possible from her presidential campaign.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
keep_it_real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
18. One commentator said Hillary outright lied regarding NAFTA
Who can trust a liar?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
InAbLuEsTaTe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
19. Big time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
22. Does she really care about her Senate seat?
It sure hasn't seemed like it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
23. That is why we say concede. If she concedes with grace she may just salvage her career. Any longer
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 01:53 PM by cooolandrew
run is a fruitless excercise.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
24. YES n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
26. No she hasn't. Plenty of time for everyone to kiss and make up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
27. Her campaign's ever so slightly coded endorsements of McCain over Obama will cause
long term distrust in the Dem party for the Clintons for a long time. Ad to that the obvious slightly coded race baiting and I can't fail to see how this isn't damaging to the Dems. And because of that it will be damaging to the Clintons.

She can say Obama (or Biden or Kucinich or Edwards, etc.) are a "doo doo head," and who could care less, but the Clintons purposely and repeatedly crossed the line by endorsing McCain over Obama in both nebulous categories of 1. 'Being ready to assume the Presidency based on past political, legislative, and government experience,' and 2. 'Being a patriotic American who loves this country.'

If Hill would have attempted to compare and contrast only herself and Obama on these admittedly non-scientifically defined qualities, there would be no problem. It's the fact she elevated the Repo nominee above the leading Dem contestant that has caused real long term damage. This combined with the race baiting shows a campaign dependent on division and emotional violence. As Hillary drives Obama's numbers down, she also drives her own numbers down. This self destructive strategy is causing concern.

There are a lot of party Democrats in states across the country shaking their heads in disgust right now, and that's got to hurt her down the road long past her desperate bid to stay in it right now. She could have gotten away with a little coded race baiting but the combination race-baiting/opposition-aiding will be something people never forget.

Whether it will hurt her enough to put her senate seat at jeopardy remains to be seen. But it's something I bet a lot of people are wondering about.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
29. K and R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
30. I think so - I think not only will she not be POTUS, she won't be a Senator much longer either.
She's done and she has only herself to blame.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
31. She'll keep her Senate seat, but this was her one and only shot
at POTUS.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
32. Possibility. Gutter poilitics don't play well
in the US or in NY.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
33. I read that they paid off their DC house mortgage, not their NY one
So I guess they had certain plans. Will be interested to see what happens in NY. I'm in the county where Obama won, so I don't have a very objective view of it! (Have only seen Obama and Paul signs here)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
36. I disagree with your "good job alienating those voters." When the
truth finally (and there have been some reporters that have stuck their necks out to report the truth about this campaign)comes out just who played the race card and race baited to win, it will be OBAMA. There was no need for the hrc campaign to play the race card. Bill told Jessica Yelin exactly right when he said you and other would rather get the talking points from the obama camp and then come in here and report on something that is false.(south carolina)

Can it seriously be contended that the Clintons thought to advance their campaign (yes, “their” campaign) by alienating black support—that the crushing defeat in South Carolina, they actually sought? The idea is ridiculous.

It is a tactical imperative for them to play down Obama’s victory in South Carolina, and the only way to do that is to help the press notice (not that they needed much help) that Obama won there because of the black vote; therefore, things will not be so easy for him in California or New York. Again, this is true.

If the Clintons thought they could secure the nomination by appealing to bigots,(semi bigots support obama) I dare say they would. But so far as I can see, they have not, and to me that looks like good judgment on their part, certainly so far as the Democratic electorate goes.

Race is a part of this campaign.It is a fact! and people who strive to be politically correct at all cost are not being honest.However I have noticed WHO is playing what cards. Obama brought on Oprah, who choose to quote MLK at every opportunity( biggest women's celebrity in the world, black , quoting a black hero,no race card there!) Meanwhile Obama's wife is speaking to black groups and saying things like she wonders"how many little black girls will not see their dreams fulfilled", not little girls but little black girls.And the Clintons are accused of playing the race card???? Lets get real!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
37. I don't think so.
Short-term nastiness vs. the long term commitment she has demonstrated to New York and America?

She will recover just fine. In fact, I'd go so far as to say we would have expected nothing less than for Clinton to fight for the nomination as hard as she dared.

Some of the more recent attacks could be seen as inoculating Obama against similar attacks in the fall. Either Obama's candidacy would succumb or it would develop antibodies for the general election. Obviously, Obama is still standing. He's dealt decisively with the Rezco situation and has a seminal speech against the racial divide in America.

Obama's candidacy is only stronger for the fight. Hillary Clinton will recover.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
41. irreparable damage
No one I know in New York is looking at her the same way anymore.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Firespirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
42. I think she must be doing some soul searching
Hillary's entire career has had one purpose, to culminate in the Presidency. I do not and never have lived in New York, so I don't know how good of a senator she has been for that state... however... it's clear that she didn't intend for her senate seat to be a long-term position.

I'm also not sure that she developed a plan B, a second-best option, for if she didn't get the Presidency.

She has to be doing that now. She must be. She must be deciding what she wants to do with herself now.

Hillary has not destroyed herself utterly. She's pissed off a lot of people, but she has not burned every bridge, and whenever she decides what it is she wants as her consolation prize, then in all likelihood, she'll get it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
44. I doubt that Senators will be interested in having her as a leader
her senate seat is safe
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC