It was ours to lose.

[Rosemary2205]

I thought we had November in the bag. I thought even Gravel could win it in a walk thanks to the utter disgust America felt toward the Republicans.

I was shortsighted. I forgot the Rove factor. We are down to Hillary and Obama. I was concerned about Hillary. Not because I think she would make a bad president, on the contrary. My concern was centered around the unreasonable over the top seething hatred toward her (not "the Clinton's" but specifically Hillary) amongst pretty much all Republicans and many of the switch voters. Now, thanks to the play play replay and play summore of Obama's preacher, I believe he will not be able to win. Plenty of middle class and lower class whites were in his corner up until they got reminded of what black evangelical preachers are like - until they got reminded that many brown people in this country believe much of their hardships are because of "whitey". Let me tell you, nothing, and I mean NOTHING, pisses off a lower income white person more than a brown person screaming about prejudice, bigotry or racism. A whole nasty bucket of skank has just been EFFECTIVELY unleashed against Obama.

In the last week, the comments that I have heard, even from within my own extended family, have make my stomach heeve. -- the low educated, low income, white uncle who for more than 30 years has thought he got fired from the best job he ever got so the trucking company could hire a black man to satisfy the quota. -- the white "not college material, good with his hands" 45 yr old cousin who's employer closed up and moved away who thinks he can't get any interviews for a warehouse shipping manager because they want someone hispanic who can relate to all the illegals they hire. -- the lady at the bank who has seen her home value stegnate and now drop after blacks started getting elected more in our county government and school board (our county gov't is in financial trouble and the school system recently lost it's accreditation) - this otherwise nice older white lady really does desperately want someone to convince her that her county hasn't gone to shit because of "black people".

I hope Obama's presidential run can be used to pull all this skank up from the bottom, churn in around all over again, and hopefully filter some of it out of our society. I hope. I think it's more likely the vision of Rev. Wright, and the reminder about race will only serve to divide thanks to the power elite determined to keep us divided.

But I hope.

[Nitrogenica]

1. I think Hillary or Barack are going to destroy McSame regardless.

[bellasgrams]

9. Don't think so. I really hope Hillary can win. She certainly deserves

it. She's a hard worker and has more knowledge and qualifications of any candidate we've had for several years. But I know I would never vote for BO and I'm sure there's a few BO'ers who feel the same. It's a shame it has come to this, I have always voted regardless if my favorite made it or not, but BO and his race baiting games, of turning everything the Clinton team says about race, when it is not.

[VolcanoJen]

13. You don't "deserve" the nomination unless you amass the majority...

... of pledged delegates and popular votes. The End.

Politburo politics don't really play well in this country, you know.

[bellasgrams]

27. You remember this when Hill passes BO in the days to come.

[againes654]

2. Ummmm

Let me tell you, nothing, and I mean NOTHING, pisses off a lower income white person more than a brown person screaming about prejudice, bigotry or racism. A whole nasty bucket of skank has just been EFFECTIVELY unleashed against Obama.


Could we maybe stop speaking for an entire group of people??? Let's see, this is how the circle goes, in your thinking.

Nothing pisses off a black person more than a white person getting pissed off because a black person is pissed off about prejudice, bigotry or racism.

See how that nasty little circle works if your thinking were to dominate. Thankfully not ALL lower income white people think this way, and not all black people are pissed at "whitey".

[Rosemary2205]

4. pick nits all you want

there is problem in this country. A big one. If you would rather have a fight about "all" or "some" or "a few" or "many" be my guest. Sure, there are other animals in the room and you can demand I name each and every animal and the quantity of each if you like - but that big ass fucking elephant is still going to be stomping the hell out of the furniture the whole time.

[againes654]

11. LOL

I don't deny there is a problem. I live in the problem every fucking day. What exactly is your point???

[Rosemary2205]

20. Then

you understand my point and the nit picking was unnecessary.

I am the first to admit my posts are less than perfect, though I seem to manage getting my point across to a good number of DUers. Thank goodness. I look forward to you picking out the little loose threads in my future posts!! (hey, someone's gotta do it - I mean, it's been lonely since the spelling and typo police haven't shown me any love for months now!) :)

[againes654]

24. No, actually I don't understand your point

I asked last time what your point to this was, but you still didn't answer. Don't bother though, I don't really care what someone who lumps people into groups with broad brush strokes thinks about me anyway. ;)

[Cary]

5. November is still a long way off.

Not this time.

[Hoof Hearted]

31. keep telling yourself that stupid shit like just because it fell from "his" golden lips

it will matter.

IT WON'T.

4 years ago they turned a war hero into a Frenchified wuss with a picture of a boat and some people who happened to serve in Nam who didn't like him very much.


Barack "typical white person" Obama and his crazy ass preacher is their WET DREAM.

[leftstreet]

3. Working class people are tired of fake divisions

Race, gender, sexual identity, religion, patriotism - all bullshit MADE UP wedge issues shoved down our throats by the ruling class.

Fuck em.

[VolcanoJen]

15. I'm a working class person who does not claim to speak for all working class people.

But, at the large hotel at which I'm employed, the vast majority of us "working class people" do not find issues of race, gender, sexual identity, religion and patriotism to be bullshit made-up wedge issues.

Fuck the ruling class indeed, but I'm definitely in the opposite corner.

[leftstreet]

17. What does race, gender, or religion have to do with the price of gas?

:shrug:

[VolcanoJen]

18. Well, for starters, your ability to find a suitable job that would allow you...

... to not enter into personal financial crisis as the price of gas rises.

Everything is relative, you know. Absolutely everything.

[99th_Monkey]

6. Don't you think it's a little early to be giving proxy concession's to McCain's candidacy?

Obama rocked the world with his "more perfect union" response to the Rev. Wright flap (most hits ever on YouTube and still counting).
He even has touched and won over several of the Fox news anchors to call for a stop to endless "Obama bashing"... Obama CAN and I
believe WILL win in November.

It's time for Dems to be rallying around its obvious once-in-a-lifetime nominee, Barak Obama, not to be casting dark spells of paralysis
on themselves, conceding the White House to McCain before the GE has even begun.

Obama's just begun fighting -- and will continue to fight -- the ReThuglican scourge that has dragged America into a pit of fear-mongering,
despair and cynicism. He deserves every Democrats support, now that he's clearly the choice of the Party.

[Rosemary2205]

7. I don't mean to slight Obama.

I really don't. In fact, if anyone in America is capable of overcoming this particular Rovian strategy, it's Obama. I hope he can. I am shocked at how much skank has been stirred up all around me -- I hope the racism skank at the bottom of the pool isn't really as nasty as it looks right now.

I hope.

[99th_Monkey]

8. Thanks for clarifying

that we are indeed hoping for the same outcome, and agree that the GE won't ba a cake-walk for Obama,
but damn, he's got what it would take to defang the swift-boaters and reveal them to be the small-
minded and cold-hearted scum that they are.

[Bake]

12. Clearly? Really?

Did he get to 2025 over the weekend and I missed it?

You Obama people are always wanting to call it a game before the final buzzer sounds!

:rofl:

Bake

[99th_Monkey]

26. When Hillary's own campaign gives her only a 10% chance of winning, to me that's "clearly"

The fat lady isn't quite singing under the spot-lights yet, but I -- and most others who's hearing is unimpaired -- can hear her warming up in the dressing room now.

I'm grateful you find it all so amusing... laughter is great medicine.
:rofl:

[Steely_Dan]

10. Sad, But Nevertheless True

The OP is right on the mark. I wish it were not true. We have ushered in this battle when racism is still strong in our country. The only surprise for me was that more people didn't see it coming. If it wasn't Rev Wright, it would have been something else, I guarantee you. And Hillary does have this undeniable hatred cast her way. It's a visceral reaction that is largely unexplained. Regardless, I never saw her as viable to begin with. It's too bad too, because she has carried the banner for Dems for a very long time.

As far as those who think that the OP is furthering a circle of hate through his/her observations. Get real. Our country is deeply mired in racism and while things have improved, recent years have demonstrated that it is as strong as anytime in our history. It is just well-hidden. You may have people who claim that Mr. Obama's color does not matter. However, when they pull the curtain, their vote will reflect a different point of view.

I did not support Hillary because I felt that she had too much baggage. I did not support Obama because I felt he was too inexperienced and that he had his own baggage born of the ignorance and racism still rampant in this country. I supported him for Vice President because I felt that this country needed to have him in office so that the American people could rest their misguided fears. After four or eight years as VP, he would have gained the much needed experience to become one of our greatest Presidents.

Now, we are faced with what many of us anticipated and even posted here on several occasions. When everyone on the bottom tier dropped out, my greatest fears were realized. We were left with the only two candidates that could actually lose to the Repugs. How could we snatch defeat from the jaws of victory? November should have been a shoe-in. But no, we had to make it a horse race...one that we can easily lose.

I have lost all of my interest in this election. I do not watch KO anymore (even though I still respect him). There is really nothing to follow anymore. Just as many of us anticipated what is going on now in our party...many more of us know exactly what's going to happen. As far as I'm concerned, it matters not if it is Obama or Clinton. Each one will (from the ensuing battles with each other and the Regugs) will further divide this country. We needed a "pragmatic" and dynamic leader that would have allowed us to get our bearings back. This is particularly true when one considers how the current administration has trashed everything it has touched.

The pendulum does not magically disappear from one side of the political spectrum and suddenly appear on the other. This was our time to start the pendulum swinging the other way. Just because Bush has screwed so many things up and the American people have had enough doesn't mean that they are ready for radical or historical change. All that does is to register fear in their hearts. I wish it didn't, but it does. That is why this was the time to reassure the American people with a solid and experienced leader who was proven. But, as it turns out, we (the American people) decided that they wanted to take a risk. That the time was right for President history, even if it meant that we had a chance to lose.

All of this being said, I do not dislike Obama or Clinton. I admire them for their willingness to fight the good fight and that they have supported Dem causes throughout their careers. However, in as much as I admire them, I could not abandon my reason in a reality based world. The writing was on the wall and many of us read it months ago.

I "hope" I am wrong.

-P

[PaddyBlueEyes]

29. Steely

Racism on whose part though? I will vote for whomever the Dem nominee is regardless, because I do not feel we can afford another 12 years of Republican control. But here is where I take issue with your comments and some of the other posters on here. If Obama loses, and the Wright controversy has any impact on that, you cannot blame white racism for that.

I watched Wright's sermons and I have to admit they bothered me. I am a white working class guy from the Northeast. I am the son of a hairdresser and plumber, I have never lived a life of privilege and was taught by my parents to respect all people and treat everyone how they treat you. I lost several friends on 9/11, most of them were FDNY Firefighters and NYPD Police Officers, white working class guys like me. They werent America's "chickens coming home to roost" they were Husbands and Fathers, Uncles and Sons who went to work one day, and never came home. Some lunatic half way around the world decided they should die, because he disagrees with the foreign policy of a government, they had no had in writing.

Also, Pastor Wright forgets the many whites, who marched, agitated and sometimes died in the Civil Rights movement. Andrew Goodman, Mickey Schwerner and Violet Liuzzo deserve better, so does my grandfather who went to the brig, during World War 2 for eating dinner with his black shipmates. He wasnt a protestor or out to make social policy, he just believed in right and wrong.

[Steely_Dan]

30. I See Nothing...

in your post that I disagree with.

In addition, I think we can agree that nothing is stated in "generalities." That is to say that, I know that there are exceptions to the rule.

When I speak of racism, I am referring to racism on both sides...whites and African-Americans as well.

I agree that Wright's comments, however disturbing, would not be the only reason for an Obama loss. As I say in my original post, if it weren't Wright's comments, it would have been something else.

I am sorry that you lost so many friends on 9/11. I cannot know what that is like, so I must assume it is far worse than I could ever imagine. However, let's not forget the two main reasons for 9/11 (IMHO): It is seldom mentioned, but OBL stated several times over the years proceeding 9/11 that American Bases in Saudi Arabia went against Islam and that they should be removed. We did not remove these bases and OBL took action. I might add that when the Soviet Union left Afghanistan, the US did not fill the gap in supporting those that defeated them. We basically abandoned the people that we trained to defeat the Soviets. This left a vacuum that the Taliban filled. Secondly, it was religious fundamentalism that fueled the 9/11 attacks.

Let it not be forgotten that for whatever reason, the people that attacked us on 9/11 are evil and there is no justification EVER for what they did.

Paddy...I do not see where we disagree. I do not defend Rev. Wright's comments in the least. I was merely pointing out that racism is alive and well regardless of its source. As a result, I do not think that Mr. Obama is as electable as his supporters would have you believe.

Peace.

-P

[cooolandrew]

14. We can we will. Obama has been underestimated many many times.

[LisaL]

28. I wish I could see how.

[Vinca]

16. Democrats could put anyone up this year and win

IF WE STICK TOGETHER. Once there's a nominee, we have to somehow lick our wounds and get on with it. Voting for McCain or sitting home is just plain stupid. There's too much at stake. We always laugh about stupid Republicans who always vote against their own self interest, but when you read posts on here from either side saying they won't vote for the other it's insane. I don't like Hillary, but I will vote for her to keep McCain out of the White House. McCain will keep us in a war, he has no solution for health care, he's going to keep us going into debt by continuing tax cuts for fat cats, he'll continue to enter into trade agreements with zero concern for American workers and . . . most important of all . . . his buddy Leiberbush will have to stay by his side 24/7 to make sure he doesn't push the nuke button when he really just wants his secretary.

[Rosemary2205]

19. Turning out Democrats to vote Democrat IMHO won't win it.

Both sides need the swing voters to win. The "B.Hussein" racist card, and the "whacked out preacher" racist card played by the right has been much more effective than I anticipated in that swing segment.

There is plenty of time to deal with it, and I hope it can be overcome. If it can be, Obama is surely the man to do it.

[tekisui]

21. Forget that defeatist attitude!

The contrast between ObamaorClinton and John Dubya McSame will be stark and blinding in November.

The choice will be obvious to ALL of America!

[Rosemary2205]

22. I'm not so sure America chooses

The choice was pretty obvious in 2000 and 2004 too IMHO.

the D will have to win by at least 60% of the vote just to overcome the Diebold factor.

[tekisui]

23. 2000 and 2004 were obvious to you.

It is obvious to even more, this time.

We COULD get 40+ states in November, if we come together and do the work!

[2rth2pwr]

25. They sound like typical white people.

[Hoof Hearted]

32. it was ours to lose. again.