Even if Edwards (the person I voted for), ends up

[cboy4]

supporting Obama, I'll be able to let it go.

As for this little weasel...not so much.



Loyalty still means something to me.

Actually, it means a lot.

[YDogg]

1. You don't support Richardson's loyalty to his party?

:shrug:

[cboy4]

7. That's not the loyalty I'm referring to, unfortunately.

You can be a loyal Democrat as a whole, yet not a loyal person.

[Drachasor]

I'd take loyalty to the principles of the Democratic Party, over those to an indiviual any day

Seriously, why should he be mindlessly loyal to the Clintons? I think it is insulting to suggest he should subsume his will to theirs for all eternity.

[Johnny__Motown]

2. He is loyal to the right thing our nation, It sounds like cronyism is important to you

[cboy4]

3. You call it cronyism. I call it loyalty.

Bill Richardson would probably be a nobody if he hadn't been given the opportunity to build his resume on the Clintons' watch.

[Umbram]

5. Bush values loyalty as well - explains many of his appointments.

Sometimes the good of the nation is more important.

[ingac70]

9. Bingo. n/t

[ingac70]

8. That's bullshit...

His 14 years in the House had fuck all to do with the Clintons.

[cboy4]

10. He would be a nobody without them. A big zero without all

of the diplomatic experience and everything else he bragged about during the debates.

How else could he say he was qualified.

Everywhere he's gotten in life can be traced to the Clintons giving him a shot.

Let's be honest.

[ingac70]

18. He was just a lucky token...

a minority that wouldn't have gotten anywhere without the Clintons. :sarcasm:

What the fuck ever.

[cboy4]

22. See, you have the same attitude as Mr. Richardson.

Give me, give me, give me.

And then, oh, screw you.

Nice.

[Johnny__Motown]

19. Yes, let's be honest. Richardson was qualified for the positions he earned. Clinton owes him

not the other way around.


Good help is hard to find ya know

[cboy4]

24. Do you know that good help is hard to find in the

political world?

I kind of doubt that.

Sure, I'm not arguing Richardson wasn't qualified and I feel he did excellent work.

I'm just disappointed that he doesn't realize there were probably dozens of other people equally as qualified, and the Clintons selected him.

[gmudem]

29. So that makes him beholden to the Clintons for the rest of his life?

This argument is just completely absurd to me. This is a democracy and Richardson can support whoever he wants to. He was a congressman who was Chairman of the House Hispanic Caucus when Clinton appointed him.

Do you not think Clinton appointed him because he thought Richardson was qualified? And remind me where it is written in the constitution somebody who is appointed by Clinton must therefore support that person for the rest of his life?

This argument is also hilarious because somehow endorsing Obama is being much more disloyal to the Clintons than RUNNING AGAINST HILLARY for president.

For that reason alone this post is a fucking joke.

[cboy4]

37. What a drunken response.

What what what?

[gmudem]

62. I guess I'm not surprised you don't understand.

I'll boil it down for you: Which do you think is more "disloyal" of Richardson? Endorsing Obama for president, or running against Clinton for president?

This topic would be less of a joke if people actually complained about his disloyalty when he was running against Clinton for her, instead of just supporting a different candidate.

It would still be a pretty big joke though. I'm glad that Richardson is able to put his country and party before a political dynasty.

[cboy4]

66. Why don't you just admit you have an intense hatred

for the Clintons? <"politcal dynasty">

And therefore, you're not open-minded enough to allow your brain to receive any inbound information about loyalty.

And your argument about running against Clinton is ridiculous.

There's only one job opening for president, so you're going to run against friends.

Richardson was very civil during the debates when addressing Hillary, which is why so many people were speculating that he was sucking up to her in case she turned out to be the nominee.

But then Obama starting winning state after state, and Richardson saw his job application with Hillary sail out the window.

He's a total opportunist. There's no question about it.

[gmudem]

70. Sure whatever.

I just don't understand this whole loyalty thing. After 8 years of political cronyism from the Bush White House I'm more concerned with people's actual abilities than petty complaints about loyalty.

And on the same token, you clearly are unable to admit that Richardson endorsed Obama because...he liked him! Or maybe he just thinks Clinton has been running a dirty campaign (in fact I know he thinks that, he said as much) and that it's time for her to drop out because she has no chance of winning and is hurting the party in the process. Richardson realized this and is doing what he can to stop the bleeding.

[cboy4]

72. By "sure whatever," is that a concession?

It's okay to loathe Hillary, but it's kinda cheap not to come out and admit it.

But you're not going to drag me into an argument about whether Hillary should be president, because I already said I didn't vote for her.

And I'm able to admit Richardson endorsed Obama because he liked him. You bet $$$

He sees those dollar signs that come with a job with an presidential administration. So yea, he likes him. He likes him to win the GE.

He doesn't think Hillary can win, so he threw her in the landfill.

But whatever, what's done is done.

I just pray that if Obama is the nominee, Richardson isn't on the ticket. :thumbsdown:

[Ned_Devine]

Do you actually know the Clintons? Just curious. By the way you're talking...

...it sounds like you feel betrayed. Maybe the Clintons aren't as nice as people think.

[cboy4]

21. I don't know the Clintons. I only know that they hired

him for a couple of dream jobs for most people in politics.

He built his resume and his further successes off of those opportunities.

And now, crickets.

That's all.

[Ned_Devine]

23. The word loyalty always spooks me

[cboy4]

28. Really? You don't expect your significant other to be loyal

to you, or is it okay for that person to side with other people concerning critical issues?

You're not loyal to your family and friends?

You're not loyal toward the person who gave you your first chance in a highly competitive career?

You're not loyal toward Democrats?

As much as I disagree with so much about the Catholic Church, I am still loyal toward this religion because I grew up with the faith.

It's called loyalty Ned_Devine.

You should look into it. It's a wonderful characteristic.

[Ned_Devine]

46. Please don't preach to me

I can tell just by your line of questioning that you are not my type of cat. The line you wrote that got under my skin was this one right here; "It's called loyalty Ned_Devine." I am not a little kid, and even if I were, that tone would have still bothered me. I don't see things in absolutes the way that you do. My answer to your questions, many of which don't apply to me, would be very gray. Don't worry, I know what loyalty is and means, and that's exactly what I don't like.

[cboy4]

53. Well you certainly weren't expecting a gentle, cuddly

response were you?

If so, then don't write posts to me that insinuate people in cults can also be described as loyal. Or people in gangs can also be described as loyal.

Is that what spooks you? Maybe you should have been more specific, because saying something I value "spooks you" isn't going to generate pleasantry from my end.

[Ned_Devine]

59. You read a lot more than I wrote, but...

...seriously, all of the things you're saying and the way you are responding are what spook me about loyalty. If I am loyal to anything, it is my conscience. Outside of that, I really have nothing more to say. We don't need to continue this conversation.

[cboy4]

73. Yea, discussing differences is so scary.

And the last thing we'd want to do on a discussion board is discuss. lol

[desi]

16. Maybe he can't get over the fact that more Latinos

voted for Hillary than for him OR Obama. In any case he's an opportunistic ungrateful backstabbing bastard.

[Johnny__Motown]

17. That is pure BS, Richardson earned those positions, Bill Clinton owes Richardson for having served

so well.

[ingac70]

Loyalty to the Democratic party is more important...

than loyalty to the Clintons.

[Zookeeper]

4. I think Richardson is a weasel because he wouldn't allow...

a recount of "spoiled votes" in Hispanic and Native American districts in 2004. He certainly wasn't loyal to the Democratic Party in that instance and he could be one of the reasons we've had another 4 years of Bush.

And then we have his Southwest-region-centric idea to tap the Great Lakes to solve water problems in his f**king DESERT state!

He also worked for Kissinger and Associates. I think he is a smarmy opportunist.

I've vowed to vote for the Democratic nominee, but if Richardson is on the ticket as VP, I'll stay home.

[stevedeshazer]

12. Supreme Court.

It's more important than a bruised ego.

[Zookeeper]

20. The Supreme Court didn't select Bush in 2004.

My dislike of Richardson is long-standing; not caused by his endorsement of Obama.

[stevedeshazer]

30. I'm referring to the fact that Obama, Bill R or no Bill R,

will select new justices for the Supreme Court.

Sorry, I should have been more clear.

[Zookeeper]

38. Yeah, I figured that out right after I posted.

My brain is a bit sluggish tonight. :blush:

I hear you on the Supreme Court. I also have two sons who are nearing draft age, so my goal has been to keep McCain out of office. OK. If Richardson is VP, I'll volunteer my services as bodyguard for the new President. :+

[stevedeshazer]

40. That'll work.

:)

[BuyingThyme]

6. Loyalty to what?

Political loyalty is corruption.

[cboy4]

15. No. Not necessarily.

He should be far more thankful for where he is in life, than the way I'm hearing him speak these days.

It's sad.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

11. So 4 of his 23 years of public service were spent in Clinton's cabinet

and now he has to follow Hillary around like a puppy? I don't think so.

[cboy4]

31. And yet every shred of "experience" he attempted to

sell during the debates had to do with those four years you cite.

Everything.

Diplomacy this, diplomacy that, if been here, I've been there.

Yea, I wonder why?

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

32. And yet his status as a superdelegate has nothing whatsoever to do with the Clintons

[MagickMuffin]

76. Diplomacy this, diplomacy that, if been here, I've been there.

Maybe Bill Clinton took advantage of Richardson's Foreign Relations EXPERIENCE.

Richardson spent a little more than 14 years in Congress. As a congressman, he kept his interest in foreign relations. He visited Nicaragua, Guatemala, Cuba, Peru, India, North Korea, Bangladesh, Nigeria, and Sudan to represent U.S. interests.

Richardson served as Chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus in the 98th Congress (1983–1985) and as Chairman of the House Natural Resources Subcommittee on Native American Affairs in the 103rd Congress (1993–1994). While in the House, Richardson sponsored bills such as the Indian Tribal Justice Act, the American Indian Religious Freedom Act Amendments, the American Indian Trust Fund Management Reform Act, the American Indian Agricultural Resource Management Act, the Indian Dams Safety Act, the Tribal Self-Governance Act, the Indian Tribal Jurisdiction Bill (commonly known as the “Duro Fix”) and the Jicarilla Apache Tribe Water Rights Settlement Act.

In 1996, he traveled to Baghdad with Peter Bourne and engaged in lengthy one-on-one negotiations with Saddam Hussein to secure the release of two American aerospace workers who had been captured by the Iraqis after wandering over the Kuwaiti border. He became a member of the Democratic leadership, where he worked closely with Bill Clinton on several issues.

You talk about Loyalty and yet you have the nerve to show that party loyalty means nothing if it isn't in your candidates favor.:eyes:

[Coexist]

13. so if someone hires you and you do a good job there on your own merit,

you owe them your loyalty for the rest of your life?

[cboy4]

33. Of course not...not if something major occurs....

But my gosh, Bill Richardson would be just another politician without all of that resume he built during the Clinton years.

Why doesn't he owe them?

[Joe the Revelator]

14. You're confusing loyalty with nepotism

Shouldn't our nominees have to EARN votes, even from SDs?

[cboy4]

34. No I'm not confusing it. All I know is if someone had

given me so much, I wouldn't turn my back.

And certainly not in such a sneaky way.

[goletian]

25. lol, youre messed up in the head. n/t

[berni_mccoy]

26. I'm loyal to my friends, but some of them I wouldn't recommend professionally

Just because they are my friends. Does that help?

Richardson is not allowed to see a better candidate in Obama?

[Guava Jelly]

27. You don't care about Integrity I guess?

Richardson Owed them his vote!! His back was scratched and he sold them his soul!:sarcasm:
He was Clintons Biat__h!! He disobeyed his master and decided to endorse who he wanted to..

We bitched about cronyism during Katrina and now we bitch about it in a different way. :eyes:

[mudesi]

35. He can do math

Unlike a lot of people here.

[adoraz]

36. He was loyal

To our party. I suggest you do that too by getting over it.

[Tennessee Gal]

39. Richardson is a weasel.

Indeed, I agree.

[Blue-Jay]

41. A Judas, right?

The ultimate betrayal!

[ScreamingMeemie]

42. Edwards was my favorite...

because he was MrG's favorite and I adore Elizabeth. It is a sad day cboy..

[cboy4]

44. They're good people....and I adore Elizabeth also.

[ScreamingMeemie]

45. I wish she would have run.

And I hope she is staying healthy.

And, I hope you are well. I miss you so much. Everytime I see your posts I remember...and it makes me smile.

Love you.

[cboy4]

50. Love you more

:loveya:

[ScreamingMeemie]

51. Love you most...

(I do this with my kids...)

[cboy4]

55. Speaking of the kids, please promise me you guys will

all be going to some Tigers games. :)

[ScreamingMeemie]

56. They signed Cabrera to 8 years today.

:)

Yes, Nicole is going to one with her boyfriend. He bought her the tickets for her birthday. Tigers v. White sox even. I'm going to try to get some tickets this year. We wasted the end of the year ones last year. It's really Nik's last summer as a "child" so I'll have to.

[cboy4]

58. Yay.

I really think this is their year.

If Cabrera does to the A.L. what he used to do against the Giants, WOW!

[Pisces]

43. Edwards will endorse Obama, Hillary is purposely trying to undermine him for 2012

[Spider Jerusalem]

47. Blind loyalty is not an admirable thing.

Loyalty is like respect; it's something that's earned, not freely given.

And it's obvious that Richardson struggled with his decision before deciding to endorse Obama.

[cboy4]

57. Actually, I'm not in favor of blind loyalty. That would

mean the Clintons would have done some very egregious things toward Mr. Richardson.

I'm talking about basic loyalty.

And after reading that President Clinton spent Super Bowl Sunday with Richardson, I just can't help but think he's been playing the Clintons - - which makes the matter worse, IMO.

[Spider Jerusalem]

60. It certainly sounds like you favour it.

You think basic loyalty dictates that one should compromise one's conscience? That if Richardson has honestly come to the conclusion that Obama's nomination is all but inevitable, and that Obama is the better candidate in November, he should keep that to himself rather than making a public endorsement, out of some twisted concept of loyalty? This is politics. Not the Mafia.

[cboy4]

61. Ah, I think you hit on some key words. He came to the

conclusion that Obama's nomination is all but inevitable.

Yes, I agree.

He wants a job, ha?

No Clinton in the White House means no more being handed jobs from the Clintons like he used to.

And, it goes without saying, that I hardly view loyalty as a twisted concept.

Not by a long shot.

[Spider Jerusalem]

63. Yes, BUT...

if he came to that conclusion, he's probably ALSO come to the conclusion that Hillary's remaining in a race she can't win, because of ego and ambition, is not a good thing and only DAMAGES the cances of a Democrat winning in November. And there's a hierarchy of loyalty, as noted above; loyalty to party and country should trump personal loyalty. (And it's your conception of loyalty I'm calling twisted, because the idea that someone who was selected to do a job, and did it competently and well, owes anything beyond that is just a bit silly.)

[cboy4]

64. I think he wants a job. That's the bottom line......and if that's

the case, of course he'd want Hillary to drop out so Obama has a better shot of winning the GE.

That doesn't make it right, however, in my opinion.

[Spider Jerusalem]

65. And maybe he wants a Democrat to win in November...

and is smart enough to realise that the chances of Hillary securing the nomination are vanishingly small, and that the longer the primary campaign mudslinging goes on, the more her staying in lowers the chances that Obama can win in November (because, let's face it...right now, she's doing John McCain's job for him).

[cboy4]

69. Well, we're starting to side-step into a completely

different issue about how Hillary is running her campaign.

And I'm not going to be dragged into that, because I'm not a Hillary voter.

As I said to someone else, Richardson is an opportunist.

I don't think there's any question about that. How unbecoming.

[scheming daemons]

48. Richardson placed loyalty to his country and party above loyalty to Bill and Hillary.....

..I have to wonder what kind of person places loyalty to two people ABOVE loyalty to country.


Richardson is a PATRIOT.... he is endorsing the candidate that he thinks can do the best for America.


Endorsing a person just because that person is a friend ... for something as important as the most important job in the world... would be the height of irresponsibility.

[Beacool]

71. A patriot because he endorsed Obama, give me a break!!!!

Patriotic is not precisely the first thing that comes to many people's mind when they think of Obama.........

[Upton]

49. Richardson is a good man

I'd say that even if he came out for Hillary. Calling him a weasel says a lot more about you than it does about him.

[otohara]

52. So Say He Didn't Agree With

the Clinton's while working for them, he's still supposed to support them for ever and ever?

Reminds me of a guy who once hired me and turned out to be a jerk, but always stressed loyalty - he hired me, treated me like a servant vs an equal, yet expected loyalty.

I suppose you can't possibly see the Clinton's as being anything but gracious, even though we've seen a different side of them in this campaign. Why is it there's other former Clinton people who support Obama? That should tell you something, take your blinders off.

[Turn CO Blue]

54. Screw that! Public servants should be loyal to the public.

AND ONLY TO THE GREATER GOOD OF THE PUBLIC - not "loyal" to their old bosses or "friends".

Your idea of loyalty is about as democratic as monarchies and fascism.

As mentioned above, I have friends that I am loyal to, that I WOULD NOT recommend to work at my company in a professional capacity. It's ridiculous to confuse the professional with the personal.

Bill Richardson owes AS MUCH to Hillary as I would owe to any of my bosses' wives in a professional or friendship capacity - which is to say, not a damned thing!

[anonymous171]

67. CRONYISM! FUCK YEAH!

[cboy4]

77. CAP LOCK! FUCK YEAH!

:eyes:

[Beacool]

68. Yep, weasel is the word....................

But that's OK, he'll get his next election time. For what I heard, he's no longer that popular in NM. It seems that people are not so happy that he decided to run for pres. and didn't attend to his day job.

[cooolandrew]

74. If folks place loyalty in someone without question. It is just as dangerous as when Bushies did it.

Richardson had every right to support whoever he wished. Any decent Democrat would not ssupport the tactics adopted by the HRC campaign.

[baldguy]

75. Country, Party, Politician.

If you mess up the order, you've got a problem.