Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Please Obama folks if you believe he didn't lie about Wright sermons EXPLAIN this to me?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:08 AM
Original message
Please Obama folks if you believe he didn't lie about Wright sermons EXPLAIN this to me?
Edited on Tue Mar-25-08 09:10 AM by ElsewheresDaughter
nytimes.com — From the New York Times, Obama dis-invites Wright from participation in his coming-out for President, dated 3-6-07. From Wright's own mouth, Obama is quoted as saying the reason is concern about Wright's controversial sermons. He now must lie and deny ever hearing such, because staying in the church after hearing that sick trash is tacit approval.

“When his enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli” to visit Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, Mr. Wright recalled, “with Farrakhan, a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell.” Mr. Wright added that his trip implied no endorsement of either Louis Farrakhan’s views or Qaddafi’s.


I mean come on...you want to condemn Hillary for her little fish story and yet give Obama a pass for his out right lying to all of us about this is not only quite disingenuious.....but quite sad
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Saturday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. And also, why is Wright silent? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. What does that have to do with anything?
I wouldn't talk to the press either. You have desire to want anything from him. I can imagine that you and others would probably treat him Sean Hannity did when he interviewed him.

He has no obligation to you or anyone else after you've only played a few seconds out of a 30yr career. Please
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. This was answered
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
36. WHERE IS THE OBAMA LIE????? THIS IS AN ENDLESS PATTERN OF FALSE CLAIMS OF FALSEHOOD
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LVjinx Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. Could it be when he said he didn't know about the comments?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
52. And also, why can't you guys ever post anything positive about Hillary?
...Instead of garbage about Obama.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
2. Blasphemy! You must realize that the lord-god-obama can do no wrong.
Edited on Tue Mar-25-08 09:13 AM by MNDemNY
To even imply such condemns you to the bowels of hell. Repent, or die!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. That's all you have to say
Edited on Tue Mar-25-08 09:18 AM by ellacott
from pillar to post to post. That's all you can contribute. We know you're better than this. Prove us wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Not this morning.
:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. do your thing
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
back2basics909 Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. Really?
You missed the actually context of the speach? And also missed that he was not there at the time anyway? Wright was quoting a general, you missed that? And you have no evidence he lied?

Please get up to date.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
7. I know it's a difficult concept for some HRC supporters, but words mean something.
Obama did NOT say that he had never heard Wright give controversial sermons.

He said that he was not present during the sermons that were broadcast recently and he had not heard Wright make what would be considered anti-American or racist statements.

To say now that he was present during "controversial" sermons isn't a contradiction or a lie.


In contrast, Clinton took a routine landing in Bosnia, with entertainers, where she met a little girl on the tarmac who handed her flowers and turned it into a scene from Blackhawk Down in an attempt to pad her credentials. Her story is a complete fabrication and, as usual, when questioned, she refuses to come clean.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
43. ~*~....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
9. Obama said that he found out when he started running for president
Which was before March 6, 2007. Candidates typically have an opposition research firm do research on themselves to find potential vulnerabilities at the start to the campaign. I would guess that's when Obama found out about the most controversial sermons, which is why he uninvited Wright to his declaration ceremony at the last minute (in February 2007). The conversation he had with Wright in which he acknowledged having to distance himself occurred in April, which is also after the point at which Obama says he found out about the sermons. He never claimed that he just found out last week...in his Huffington Post article, Obama said that he found out when he started running for president in January of 2007, and this timeline is consistent with that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Still, why is everyone ignoring that the current controversy was fabricated?
The media lied. They distorted Wrights sermon by editing the clip, which in it's entirety shows Wright was quoting a former U.S. ambassador.

Continuing the media spin on this is a travesty!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Seriously
I want to know what was so wrong with Wright's sermons - not the sound bites played to inflame, but his words in context - speaking on the issues, asking that folks take personal responsibility for their lives and their world and their faith.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
21. Amusing
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. Nothing is more amusing than Wright visit Qaddafi in 1984.
Go shake the bloody hand of Qhaddafi and then stand back in amusement as Qhaddafi is implicated in the bombing of US troops off duty in Germany?

And his only concern is "wait till they hear about this it will affect your election??????????"

No to worry- we don't remember anything beyond a few news cycles anyway.

http://www.startsurfing.com/encyclopedia/m/u/a/Muammar_al-Qaddafi_b245.html

"and (Qaddafi)is accused by the United States of being responsible for direct control of the 1986 Berlin discotheque bombing that killed 3 people and wounded more than 200 others, of which a substantial number were U.S. servicemen."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
12. What would you do
if your friend, who was running for president, called and said "hey buddy, you have the right to speak your mind, but you're killing me here. Do you think you could turn it down a notch for awhile?"? If you truly supported your friend wouldn't you avoid saying things that would be exploited to hurt him? My guess is you would. Quit weaving a conspiracy out of nothing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
noel711 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
13. Why is this argument continuing?
Still watching Fox "news"?

How can you judge a pastor by a minute sound byte of a sermon?

Have you taken the time, effort and energy to listen to the many
other sermons Wright preached? Or do you judge by only what the
biased media has conveniently shown you?

To judge a person by only what you've been allowed to hear
is unfair. Unfair to you, and unfair to Wright, and ultimately
unfair to SEnator Obama.

I'm sure you've heard the blarney that John McCain's pastoral
supporters have said, but we just slide right by that.

And from my own professional department, when I preached the
Sunday after 9-11, AND prior to the Iraq WAr, I pissed off a lot
of people too. Put the damn thing in context! See the big picture.

We are expected to forgive SEn. Clinton's 'mis-statement' about her
experience in Boznia, but we keep condemning Sen. Obama for the
incredibly unfair representation of his pastor. Something is very wrong
here...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
30. How unfair to judge a pastor by his actions?? LMAO!
Edited on Tue Mar-25-08 11:47 AM by bluedawg12
Soemthing IS very wrong here-

and it's called "visiting" Muammar Abu Minyar al-Qaddafi.

"Throughout the 1970s, his regime was implicated in subversion and terrorist activities in both Arab and non-Arab countries. By the mid-1980s, he was widely regarded in the West as the principal financier of international terrorism. Reportedly, Gaddafi was a major financier of the "Black September Movement" which perpetrated the Munich massacre at the 1972 Summer Olympics, and was accused by the United States of being responsible for direct control of the 1986 Berlin discotheque bombing that killed three people and wounded more than 200, of whom a substantial number were U.S. servicemen. He is also said to have paid "Carlos the Jackal" to kidnap and then release a number of Saudi Arabian and Iranian oil ministers. Tensions between Libya and the West reached a peak during the Ronald Reagan administration, which tried to overthrow Gaddafi. The Reagan administration viewed Libya as a belligerent rogue state because of its uncompromising stance on Palestinian independence, its support for revolutionary Iran in the 1980-1988 war against Saddam Hussein's Iraq (see Iran-Iraq War), and its backing of "liberation movements" in the developing world. Reagan himself dubbed Gaddafi the "mad dog of the Middle East." In March 1982 the U.S. declared a ban on the import of Libyan oil <4> and the export to Libya of U.S. oil industry technology; European nations did not follow suit."

Qaddaif's bloody hand in Pan Am 103?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103

Four years after Wright visit's to Qaddafi--->>>> Pan Am 103.


Merry Christmas from Qaddafi- 21 December 1988, 270 lives blown to bits over 800 sq. miles.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mooney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
14. What's the difference between a lie and a "little fish story"?
Does it have to do with which candidate you support?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Annces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
16. They are both playing politics
They both will deny they know someone or something, if it is too detrimental. Remember the story of Peter denying knowing Jesus?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
noel711 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
17. No flames here, but a hopeful explanation..
If that's what you say you want....

He has explained, over and over and over.
Have you been listening?

He was a member of the church for years.
But being a member doesn't mean you are present
for every service and every sermon.
Being a politician working in Springfield
and in D.C., he didn't make it home to Chicago
every weekend.

He has said many times that when he heard something
he objected to, he made it plain to the pastor.

He didn't leave the congregation because the pastor
is NOT the congregation. That congregation does wonderful
things. AND that pastor didn't preach every Sunday;
there were others that preached.

Stop listening to the talking heads,
and do your own work of listening to his words,
and think about the reality of the situation.

This situation is blown out of proportion by
the media.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malta blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
18. Isn't this last week's news?
Just sayin :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cheap_Trick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #18
32. they got PA coming up
and Obama is closing her lead. The desperate ones will say or do anyting, including keeping a non-story alive, beating it like a dead horse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #18
34. The Audacity of Rhetoric is today's news .
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/post_25.html



"It is painful to watch defenders of Barack Obama tying themselves into knots trying to evade the obvious.

Some are saying that Senator Obama cannot be held responsible for what his pastor, Jeremiah Wright, said. In their version of events, Barack Obama just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time -- and a bunch of mean-spirited people are trying to make something out of it.

It makes a good story, but it won't stand up under scrutiny.

Barack Obama's own account of his life shows that he consciously sought out people on the far left fringe. In college, "I chose my friends carefully," he said in his first book, "Dreams From My Father."

These friends included "Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk rock performance poets" -- in Obama's own words -- as well as the "more politically active black students." He later visited a former member of the terrorist Weatherman underground, who endorsed him when he ran for state senator...."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
55. GOP salivation alert.
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
19. Those who do not read the linkies
or get the whole story have only themselves to blame when they don't 'get it'.






Sorry. I don't think Obama's lying on this one, he doesn't hate white people and the smell of desperation is far too keen for my senses this morning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
book_worm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
20. First you explain Hillary lying four times about Bosnia.
Wright is an American citizen who doesn't have to ask Barack Obama for permission of what he should say or not say. Why Obama is being blamed for what somebody else says is beyond me. Thankfully this furor has died down and the intelligent American public accepts what Obama said in his speech.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheDoorbellRang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
22. He said he knew Wright had made some controversial remarks
in some of his sermons, but that he hadn't heard the particular sermons that had the snippets lifted from them.

At some point many people are going to hear the context that those snippets were lifted from, and they're going to hear other sermons that Wright made over the course of 20 years, and they'll realize this was a gross distortion by the media to stir up some sh*t.

Remember, there are now about 54% of Americans who are getting their news from the internet instead of the M$M. I don't think people like being lied to -- by the media.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shifting_sands Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
23. Wright and Obama
This is hard to believe that grown people actually discuss and argue over this. Rev. Wright is a minister, a black minister and given to passionate rhetoric. Obama did not say these words he just sat there and listened. How many words have we just "sat and listened" to. Let's start with the Supreme Court unconstitutionally giving the Presidency to a candidate we did not want. Going on to a war we didn't want and the lies surrounding that war, fast forwarding to the corruption surrounding the companies in Iraq and we are being told "it's nothing." The list goes on and some of you could recite it by heart, the point is, we've listened and did not get up in any real numbers to protest and when we did we could not keep it going.

Hillary really isn't being called into account for the words SHE spoke and lied about, most are taking it as "mis-speak." Get off Rev. Wright and the fact Obama goes to his church, so what!! We are sitting in a country going down the tubes and we just sit here listening to every word, demanding little if any accountability.

If you don't want to vote for Obama, then don't but stop asking people to prove to you why you should or shouldn't. We don't know why Rev. Wright didn't come to Obama's announcement for President, and to try and guess is stupid. The GOP have their fair share of pastors saying strange things, if you must, focus on them. But passionate preachers are not the problem right now, they are way down the list of problems. The truth is the entire human race is guilty of listening to stupidity coming from the mouths of all manner of people, bosses, preachers, politicians, judges and each other and we don't leave.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
47. What You Said
Edited on Tue Mar-25-08 01:58 PM by Me.
:thumbsup:

And given Hillary's most recent statement that she would've left the church, I defy anyone to say this isn't race baiting, along with a deflection to get her off the hook for her Bosnia x4 Lie. Next thing you know she will be endorsing McCain for prez. Oh wait, she and her husband have for all practical purposes done that.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
24. Let me be explicit, not tacit.
I approve Wright's sermons. I recognize that there were gross exaggerations in some of them, and even some plain errors. But I approve the spirit behind them and I think he's a great pastor.

Good for Obama if he approves them, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Run on that! good GE move.
"Wright is Right!" Obama '08.....great slogan!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. I don't have to run on that.
I'm not running for orifice. I'm just an anonymous, faceless poster on the computer, stealing time from my boss. Seems some folks tend to forget that around here.

The advantage of being who I am is that I don't have to worry about your perception of me and can afford to tell the simple truth. Wright was right, and God Damn America. Until we start to get a few things right, Wright will continue to be right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Obama's problem is that you can't win an election by telling the truth in this country
Aside from the conspiracy theory stuff, Wright is exactly right about America's role in the world. And I think Obama is sympathetic to that view though I don't think he necessarily endorses it.

But a black man can never ever be angry in America.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Telling the truth in America-or Blind faith?
http://www.slate.com/id/2187277/

Blind Faith
The statements of clergymen like Jeremiah Wright aren't controversial and incendiary; they're wicked and stupid.

"It's been more than a month since I began warning Sen. Barack Obama that he would become answerable for his revolting choice of a family priest. But never mind that; the astonishing thing is that it's at least 11 months since he himself has known precisely the same thing. "If Barack gets past the primary," said the Rev. Jeremiah Wright to the New York Times in April of last year, "he might have to publicly distance himself from me. I said it to Barack personally, and he said yeah, that might have to happen." Pause just for a moment, if only to admire the sheer calculating self-confidence of this. Sen. Obama has long known perfectly well, in other words, that he'd one day have to put some daylight between himself and a bigmouth Farrakhan fan. But he felt he needed his South Side Chicago "base" in the meantime. So he coldly decided to double-cross that bridge when he came to it. And now we are all supposed to marvel at the silky success of the maneuver.

You often hear it said, of some political or other opportunist, that he would sell his own grandmother if it would suit his interests. But you seldom, if ever, see this notorious transaction actually being performed, which is why I am slightly surprised that Obama got away with it so easily. (Yet why do I say I am surprised? He still gets away with absolutely everything.)..."


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cheap_Trick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #31
38. Hillary sure as shit doesn't have truth on her side
she's running on nothing but the blind faith of her acolytes now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
27. About Wright's 1984 visit to bloody Qhaddafi...uh...
Going about the business of the Lord?

http://www.startsurfing.com/encyclopedia/m/u/a/Muammar_al-Qaddafi_b245.html

Qaddafi outlined his political philosophy in his Green Book, published in 1976. In practice, however, Libya's political system is thought to be somewhat less idealistic and from time to time Qaddafi has responded to domestic and external opposition with violence. His revolutionary committees called for the assassination of Libyan dissidents living abroad in February 1980, with Libyan hit squads sent abroad to murder them.

Qaddafi also became a strong supporter of the Palestine Liberation Organization, which ultimately harmed Libya's relations with Egypt when in 1979 Egypt pursued a peace agreement with Israel.

As Libya's relations with Egypt worsened, Qaddafi sought closer relations with the Soviet Union.

Throughout the 1970s, his regime was implicated in subversion and terrorist activities in both Arab and non-Arab countries. By the mid-1980s, he was widely regarded in the West as the principal financier of international terrorism. Reportedly, Qaddafi was a major financier of the "Black September Movement" which perpetrated the 1972 Munich Olympics massacre, and is accused by the United States of being responsible for direct control of the 1986 Berlin discotheque bombing that killed 3 people and wounded more than 200 others, of which a substantial number were U.S. servicemen. He is also said to have paid "Carlos the Jackal" to kidnap and release several of the Saudi Arabian and Iranian oil ministers when it fit his purposes to do so. "

Pan Am 103- Merry Christmans from Qhaddafi!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103


Pan Am 103 blows up ove Lockerbie Scotland and 270 human beings are strewn over 800 sq. miles in bits and pieces.

"Known as the Lockerbie bombing and the Lockerbie air disaster in the UK, it became the subject of Britain's largest criminal inquiry, led by its smallest police force, Dumfries and Galloway Constabulary. The bombing was widely regarded as an assault on a symbol of the United States, and with 189 of the victims being Americans, it stood as the deadliest terrorist attack against the United States until the September 11, 2001 attacks.


Abdel Basset Ali al-MegrahiAfter a three-year joint investigation by the Dumfries and Galloway Constabulary and the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation, during which 15,000 witness statements were taken, indictments for murder were issued on November 13, 1991, against Abdel Basset Ali al-Megrahi, a Libyan intelligence officer and the head of security for Libyan Arab Airlines (LAA), and Lamin Khalifah Fhimah, the LAA station manager in Luqa Airport."




Tusla and the Carvill stories are nothing compared to the truth.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #27
45. Here's EF Schumacher, writing about him in 1979
"Colonel Qadaffi chucked out the old king and became head of state at the ripe old age of 28 (in 1969) ...He went to the companies and asked them not to increase but to throttle output, only marginally. He was very ill received, and when he found he couldn't really get along with the companies, he nationalized them so that he would have control. The immediate effect of one country marginally reducing crude oil output in 1970 was a 50% increase in the world's level of crude-oil prices...But Colonel Qaddafi had become the world's most hated man, and the other Arabs and oil producers didn't want to get into his position."

Interesting that he did not really start out as public enemy #1. Perhaps absolute power corrupts, but it also seems that, like Chavez, he was demonized by the oil companies and oil consumers whose profits he cut into. His initial crime apparently was nationalizing oil companies and cutting output. After which he became "the world's most hated man".

Is it really fair to mention Pan Am 103 in December 1988, without remembering the bombing of Libya in 1986 suppused retaliation for the Berlin Disco bombing which was perhaps retaliation for the strike in the Gulf of Sirte?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/5/newsid_4357000/4357255.stm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
33. He already said he knew Wright had controversial views.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
35. He didn't deny ever hearing controversial sermons
Next question.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Controversial sermons? political ideology is more like it
steeped in it and marinating in it for 20 years.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. OK, what are you insinuating?
Hillary's pastor has defended Wright, by the way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. Yes, Obama is an anti-American black nationalist hiding his true feelings
until he gets the levers of power, at which point he will order Chuck D's face immediately put on Rushmore, and decree in Swahili that Professor Griff is now in charge of the Security of the First World.

He will then divorce his faux wife Michelle (not black enough) and marry six daughters of Osama bin Laden. That'll show the slaveholders.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #37
54. Do you really think Obama is a black nationalist?
Is that the implication?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AnarchoFreeThinker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
40. DUCK.......AND ROLLL!!!!!! SNIIIIIIIIIIIPERS!!!!!!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
42. quote:"...incedinary cermons..." vs. controversial statements that were being looped in the media...
...to me it's easy; the ones being played constantly on Hard Ball etc AREN'T the ones he heard while in Church.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oviedodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
46. When are you going to get it: Obama said ne NEVER heard the comments that
were in regular rotation last week. He never said he did not hear some "crazy" stuff.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
48. OP, are you in any way a progressive??
"sick trash"? That "sick trash" is stuff that almost everyone at DU would have agreed is right and true, a year ago. But now you find it strangely easy to condemn a man for speaking a truth that a lot of people find inconvenient, and you're doing it for the worst possible reasons: for imagined political gain. You people make me sick--you're throwing progressive ideals out the window in a desperate hope that it will help your candidate get the nomination. F*cking b*llsh*t. I support Obama but I would say the same thing if the situation were reversed.

Support your candidate because she has some real strengths, whatever they may be. But don't go trashing the very people we're supposed to admire, the ones who are fighting the same fight we're fighting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
49. Something tells me that Obama is not going to get alot of the Jewish vote in light of all the
anti-semitism that has come out of his spiritual advisor's mouth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
50. Um.... Obama said as much on the record.
Edited on Tue Mar-25-08 02:41 PM by demdog78
He said that he heard comments like the ones on Faux Noise, just not those comments.

You must have missed that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
51. I see that your 7-day strike didn't even make it through ONE day...
...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Melinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
53. After reading the article, I don't see a lie at all.
Edited on Tue Mar-25-08 03:44 PM by Melinda
In Re the dis-invitation:

“Fifteen minutes before Shabbos I get a call from Barack,” Mr. Wright said in an interview on Monday, recalling that he was at an interfaith conference at the time. “One of his members had talked him into uninviting me,” Mr. Wright said, referring to Mr. Obama’s campaign advisers.

-snip-

Bill Burton, a spokesman for the Obama campaign, said the campaign dis-invited Wright because it did not want the church to face negative attention. Mr. Wright did however, attend the announcement and prayed with Mr. Obama beforehand.

-snip-

Mr. Wright said that in the phone conversation in which Mr. Obama dis-invited him from a role in the announcement, Mr. Obama cited an article in Rolling Stone, “The Radical Roots of Barack Obama.”

According to the pastor, Mr. Obama then told him, “You can get kind of rough in the sermons, so what we’ve decided is that it’s best for you not to be out there in public.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/us/politics/06obama.html?scp=3&sq=obama+march+6%2C+2007&st=nyt">NYT March 6, 2007


You said: "From Wright's own mouth, Obama is quoted as saying the reason is concern about Wright's controversial sermons."

Obama cited an article from Rolling Stone as his reason for dis-inviting Rev. Wright. And no where in the Rolling Stone article, nor in the NYT article, does Obama state he personally heard the sermon referenced by the article, or any other such sermon delivered by Rev. Wright.

The pertinent part of said article:

The Trinity United Church of Christ, the church that Barack Obama attends in Chicago, is at once vast and unprepossessing, a big structure a couple of blocks from the projects, in the long open sore of a ghetto on the city's far South Side. The church is a leftover vision from the Sixties of what a black nationalist future might look like. There's the testifying fervor of the black church, the Afrocentric Bible readings, even the odd dashiki. And there is the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, a sprawling, profane bear of a preacher, a kind of black ministerial institution, with his own radio shows and guest preaching gigs across the country. Wright takes the pulpit here one Sunday and solemnly, sonorously declares that he will recite ten essential facts about the United States. "Fact number one: We've got more black men in prison than there are in college," he intones. "Fact number two: Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run!" There is thumping applause; Wright has a cadence and power that make Obama sound like John Kerry. Now the reverend begins to preach. "We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional KILLERS. . . . We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God. . . . We conducted radiation experiments on our own people. . . . We care nothing about human life if the ends justify the means!" The crowd whoops and amens as Wright builds to his climax: "And. And. And! GAWD! Has GOT! To be SICK! OF THIS SHIT!"

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/13390609/campaign_08_the_radical_roots_of_barack_obama/2">Rolling Stone Article February 22, 2007


Provocative? Absolutely. Hateful? To some, yes. Truthful? Depends on one's perspective. Did Barack Obama sit in church and listen to the above sermon. Obama denies it, and no one's been able to prove the contrary. From another NYT article:

“The violence of 9/11 was inexcusable and without justification,” he said in a recent interview. He was not at Trinity the day Mr. Wright delivered his remarks shortly after the attacks, Mr. Obama said, but “it sounds like he was trying to be provocative.”

“Reverend Wright is a child of the 60s, and he often expresses himself in that language of concern with institutional racism and the struggles the African-American community has gone through,” Mr. Obama said. “He analyzes public events in the context of race. I tend to look at them through the context of social justice and inequality.”

Despite the canceled invocation, Mr. Wright prayed with the Obama family just before his presidential announcement. Asked later about the incident, the Obama campaign said in a statement, “Senator Obama is proud of his pastor and his church.”

In March, Mr. Wright said in an interview that his family and some close associates were angry about the canceled address, for which they blamed Obama campaign advisers but that the situation was “not irreparable,” adding, “Several things need to happen to fix it.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/30/us/politics/30obama.html?ei=5090&en=f901477fd875c685&ex=1335585600&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all">NTY April 20, 2007


So in summation, Rev Wright was dis-invited at the behest of the campaign after the publication of the Rolling Stone article. Rev. Wright blamed Obama's campaign advisor's, and not Obama himself. Regardless, at the center of your assertion is that Obama was personally present during the most egregious sermons, and to continue attending Trinity Lutheran conveys tacit approval of Reverend Wrights remarks.

From Media Matters:

Media outlets falsely claim Obama contradicted himself regarding Wright statements

Summary: Several media figures have falsely claimed that Sen. Barack Obama contradicted previous statements when he said during a March 18 speech on race: "Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in the church? Yes." In fact, Obama previously asserted he had not been present for particular statements Wright made that were repeated by various media outlets and that spurred the recent controversy. He did not claim to have never heard Wright make "remarks that could be considered controversial."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200803200004">Media Matters, March 20, 2008



1) No where in the article you cite, nor in any of the additional links I've provided has it been shown that Obama was personally present during any of said heinous sermons, or that he has contradicted himself on this issue in any way..

2) Obama has denounced Wright's remarks, and Wright has retired as Pastor of Trinity Lutheran.

3) If you can provide proof of your implication, ie Obama had personally attended said sermons and given Wright a tacit pass, then I'll genuinely reconsider my support of his candidacy.

Peace out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Alenne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
56. I think what's sad is
You want to condemn Obama for what his preacher said but give Hillary a pass on her out right lying about being shot at.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC