Of course Wright would not be your Pastor, Hillary

[Cali_Democrat]

Your not black Hillary. You know nothing about the African American experience in America. Were you told to sit on the back of a bus? Were your churches firebombed? Were your people experimented on by the US government? Were your people lynched? When you walk down the street do some white women grab their purses out of fear? Of course you wouldn't join a predominantly African American church, you know nothing about African Americans. You grew up a privileged white girl.

[phrigndumass]

1. it's a choice

[leftofcool]

3. Oh please!

I know thousands of people who wouldn't step foot in a church like that

[phrigndumass]

5. Let's stop implying that either of our candidates are racist, please.

[JimGinPA]

6. That's Probably Your Most Honest Post Yet

[mrreowwr_kittty]

11. So you surround yourself with uptight scared white people.

Quel surprise :eyes:

[merh]

17. you have yet to answer my question

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5250345&mesg_id=5250569

will you respond or does just spewing "it was hate" make you feel all warm and fuzzy and loving inside?

[Ashy Larry]

31. What do you mean by "church like that"?

Do you actually know anything about the church itself or are you basing your opinions on a handful of out-of-context quotes from 30 years of sermons?

[ej510]

61. Church LIke That!

It is amazing how many people can use sound bites to pass judgement on an entire congregation. They ask why he sat in the church, I ask why white people could take their kids to a lynching and turn it into a picnic day. How they could sit and eat while someone was being killed. If you look at the pictures there were women sitting their fixing lunch for their kids while people were being burned to death. How sick is that. I wonder when people look in the books do they see their mothers, fathers, relatives or friends. Rev. Wright has not killed anyone or advocated it.

My Grandmother is 102 and still living, she recalls the horror that came with being black. I have heard the stories my whole life. Their house was burned to the ground, they barely escaped with their lives because their dad was a hard worker and had more than the whites at that time thought he should. They tried to burn them alive kids and all. They didn't care anything about the children, they killed them too. My family endend up in California because my Grandma was going to fight two white men that wanted to hit her three year old son in the face with his fist. She grabbed on by the arm therefore she had to die. The whole family had to leave the state of Texas and still this woman never told me to hate white people. She taught me to treat people the way I wanted to be treated. Too bad we all can't have a heart like hers.

We all need to stop and let the racism die. The one good thing I see is that the young people don't harbor the hate in their hearts that the older people can't seem to let go of. I am 52 and have lived with hate most of my life. I can remember going to the beach in Alameda CA and having grown white men chase a bunch of 10 to 12 year old kids off the beach, calling us hateful names, spitting on us and throwing rocks and sticks at us. Hurling threats of bodily harm if we didn't get to our side of town, that was in the late 60's.

What I hope can happen now is that black people stop blaming whites for all the ills in our communities and for whites to stop acting like racism does not exist

[Hepburn]

32. I am white and I would not hesitate for one second to go to that church.

In fact, I am an old white woman...and I STILL would not hesitate.

Guess some of us see beyond color.

[woolldog]

44. there are white members of that church.

it's not a big deal and no one there hates white people. It's a shame how they've maligned that congregation.

[SoFlaJet]

2. a privileged

little white REPUBLICAN girl

[The Night Owl]

13. A little white Republican girl...

A little white Republican girl who went against her upbringing to become a Democrat.

[Hepburn]

34. Oooooooooooh....

...superficial rebellion ~~ but she still IS what she IS.

[Fredda Weinberg]

4. That's why her minister took her to hear MLK. But hey, enjoy your hate n/t

[mrreowwr_kittty]

8. Obviously she learned nothing from the experience.

Enjoy losing the black vote, possibly forever, if she's the nominee.

Oh, but since you blame black preachers for the riots in your community, that's probably a welcome development for you.

:puke:

[grantcart]

15. look but don't get too close

The fact is that whatever you personally feel about Wright - and I can empathize with a dozen different positions - her comments now are completely tactical and desperate.

This weekend we had to listen to Carville excorciate Richardson and now she is going after Wright.


All because of the Bosnia tape.


Hillary Clinton could have said that Wright is a pastor and we shouldn't be judged by our pastors but by what we say. Everyone would have loved her for it. Even those of us who find it very hard would have been impressed. But she missed the opportunity and now she is back throwing mud (even if you agree with the sentiments you know that she is only bringing it up know because the media is smelling blood in the Bosnia tapes).

This is a campaign that is getting very desperate - I am sorry that as a supporter you are boxed in but do you really think that her bringing up the Wright story is a good thing?

[Saturday]

7. It's Hillary's fault she was born into a white family? nt

[Cali_Democrat]

16. No

But she has no right to say Wright wouldn't be her Pastor when she's never walked in the shoes of an African American.

[The Night Owl]

22. LOL! Hillary Clinton not only has a right to say that radical cleric Jeremiah Wright...

LOL! Hillary Clinton not only has a right to say that radical cleric Jeremiah Wright would not be her pastor but good reason to say that radical cleric Jeremiah Wright would not be her pastor. Sorry... the fact that Jeremiah Wright is a black pastor does not make him above criticism.

[Cali_Democrat]

25. I never said she had no right to criticize Wright

Even Obama and many other blacks have criticized Wright. But she has no right to say Wright would not be her Pastor, hence she would not be a member of that church. Until she walks in the shoes of an African American she should zip her lip.

[The Night Owl]

26. "Until she walks in the shoes of an African American she should zip her lip."

Does an African American person need to walk in a white person's shoes to criticize Jerry Falwell? Of course not. Similarly, a white person does not need to walk in the shoes of an African Amerian to criticize Pastor Wright.

People aren't criticizing Wright because he is black. They are criticizing him because he has said awful things.

[Cali_Democrat]

28. I NEVER said she can't criticize

She has every right to be critical, even Obama has been critical. I said she has no right to say she never be a part of that Church. By saying Wright would not be her Pastor she is saying she would never be a part of that church. The Church is alot more than the Pastor. Its a community where they help many folks and those people build strong bonds. It's a place where African American in Chicago form strong bonds and friendships. They have a common experience. She knows nothing about that.

[The Night Owl]

30. The same argument still applies...

Just as African American people do not need to walk in the shoes of whites to say that they would not want Jerry Falwell to be their pastor, Hillary Clinton does not need to walk in the shoes of an African Amerian person to say that she would not want Jeremiah Wright to be her pastor.

[Ashy Larry]

38. To equate Wright with Falwell is total bullshit in my opinion.

[Beacool]

51. Jerry Falwell, another in whose church I would have never sat.

Ditto for Pat Robertson.

[Hepburn]

No, but....

...IMO, she has some clear cut responsibility for becoming a lying, bigot, war monger.

Any other questions?

[NOLALady]

9. She prefers the Secret Fellowship.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

I know thousands of people who would love to be a part of that Church.

[IndianaJones]

10. homophobamas pretending to care about bigotry in America...bwahaha. nt.

[MonkeyFunk]

12. the haters get more and more moronic

with each passing hour.

[phrigndumass]

21. I agree with you, and I don't usually do that (nt)

[Sensitivity]

14. Hillary is not taking to attacking Obama for attending the MOST RESPECTED BLACK CHURCH IN CHICAGO

[george_maniakes]

20. are you serious? the most respected black church in chicago? n/t

[Cali_Democrat]

29. Yes it is!

[Ashy Larry]

33. Why wouldn't it be?

Seems like they do a lot of great things for the community.

[The Night Owl]

36. Should we pretend that Pat Robertson hasn't said hateful things simply because...

Should we pretend that Pat Robertson hasn't said hateful things simply because his ministry does a lot of charity?

[Ashy Larry]

37. First of all, I am not sure that Pat Robertson does a lot of Charity.

Second, I don't think that Rev. Wright's words were hateful. Can you give me an example of what you found hateful?

[The Night Owl]

39. For starters, Reverend Wright's questioning of American indignation over the 9/11 attacks. {EOM}

[RamboLiberal]

42. Yeah - just better to say they hate us for our freedoms

:sarcasm:

Not have a discussion about years of American policy that create blowback!

[The Night Owl]

46. One can argue that US policies have invited blowback without implying, as Pastor Wright did...

One can argue that US policies have invited blowback without implying, as Pastor Wright did, that the blowback is justified.

[Ashy Larry]

48. No, he didn't.

There is a difference between saying that the attack was justified and saying that it shouldn't have been all that surprising.

[The Night Owl]

49. If Pastor Wright doesn't feel that the 9/11 attacks were just, then why did he question...

If Pastor Wright doesn't feel that the 9/11 attacks were just, then why did he question American indignation over them?

[Ashy Larry]

56. Because that indignation was previously absent

when the US was the one doing the attacking. Would you admit the such indignation would have been justified in the examples he gave in the sermon?

“I heard Ambassador Peck on an interview yesterday did anybody else see or hear him? He was on FOX News, this is a white man, and he was upsetting the FOX News commentators to no end, he pointed out, a white man, an ambassador, he pointed out that what Malcolm X said when he was silenced by Elijah Mohammad was in fact true, he said Americas chickens, are coming home to roost.”

“We took this country by terror away from the Sioux, the Apache, Arikara, the Comanche, the Arapaho, the Navajo. Terrorism.

“We took Africans away from their country to build our way of ease and kept them enslaved and living in fear. Terrorism.

“We bombed Grenada and killed innocent civilians, babies, non-military personnel.

“We bombed the black civilian community of Panama with stealth bombers and killed unarmed teenage and toddlers, pregnant mothers and hard working fathers.

“We bombed Qaddafi’s home, and killed his child. Blessed are they who bash your children’s head against the rock.

“We bombed Iraq. We killed unarmed civilians trying to make a living. We bombed a plant in Sudan to pay back for the attack on our embassy, killed hundreds of hard working people, mothers and fathers who left home to go that day not knowing that they’d never get back home.

“We bombed Hiroshima. We bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye.

“Kids playing in the playground. Mothers picking up children after school. Civilians, not soldiers, people just trying to make it day by day.

“We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff that we have done overseas is now brought right back into our own front yards. America’s chickens are coming home to roost.

“Violence begets violence. Hatred begets hatred. And terrorism begets terrorism. A white ambassador said that y’all, not a black militant. Not a reverend who preaches about racism. An ambassador whose eyes are wide open and who is trying to get us to wake up and move away from this dangerous precipice upon which we are now poised. The ambassador said the people we have wounded don’t have the military capability we have. But they do have individuals who are willing to die and take thousands with them. And we need to come to grips with that.”

[The Night Owl]

57. Of course indignation is a justifiable response to any atrocity. My point exactly.

You guys can keep trying to make excuses for what Pastor Wright said, but anyone who examines his remarks objectively understands that they are indefensible.

[Ashy Larry]

59. That is not your point.

And I am actually only one guy.

He did not say that Americans should not be indignant about 9/11. He was making the point that for the most part, Americans were not indignant about other events and issues that warrant the same type of indignation.

[The Night Owl]

60. One can point out American indifference to past wrongdoing by the US without...

One can point out American indifference to past wrongdoing by the US without questioning American indignation over the 9/11 attacks.

Nice try. I really wish some of you would try harder to understand why certain comments by Pastor Wright are so offensive.

[Ashy Larry]

62. I understand why some people would be offended.

I would actually concede that his comments were designed to offend. Many college professors will use similar tactics of getting people to think about issues in ways they had not previously and to spark conversation. I just think that people who are so offended tend to be ignorant of the point that he was making. I also think that many people who were already opposed to Obama are engaging in willful ignorance on this issue. But to say that he justified the attacks is taking it way to far and I think if this were not primary season you would admit that.

[Ashy Larry]

43. I agree with most of what Wright said about that.

I think its pretty clear that the 9/11 attacks were motivated by US policies in the middle east over the years. That certainly doesn't excuse the attacks but it is definitely something to consider if you are interested in preventing future attacks. Even if you disagree, I don't see how it can be considered hateful. It seems more like tough love to me. He was trying to wake people up. Maybe you should watch the entire sermon.

[The Night Owl]

45. If you look up the word "indignation" you will see that it is defined as...

If you look up the word "indignation" you will see that it is defined as anger aroused by something unjust. The reason why Pastor Wright questioned American indignation in response to the 9/11 attacks is because he doesn't consider them to have been unjust. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

[Ashy Larry]

47. I am sorry but that is really a stretch and I think you know it.

He questioned the indignation because most Americans have little if any knowledge of what our government's policies have been around the world. Don't you remember all the people asking, "Why do they hate us?" He was giving an answer to that question. What is your answer to that question? Why do think we were attacked?

[The Night Owl]

52. The fact that Americans have little knowledge of their government's policies...

The fact that Americans have little knowledge of their government's policies does not mean that they deserve whatever comes in response to those policies. I would not have had a problem with Jeremiah Wright pointing out that certain policies invite blowback, but what he did is question American indignation over the 9/11 attacks... indignation which was righteous.

And, no, I'm not stretching. Words matter... remember? If Pastor Wright feels that the 9/11 attacks were unjust, then he has no reason to question American indignation over them. And yet he does.

[Ashy Larry]

53. You are putting words in his mouth.

He didn't say the attacks were deserved. He made the point that it shouldn't have been such a surprise and that people should look at the reasons so that we can learn from our mistakes.

[The Night Owl]

55. By questioning indigation over the 9/11 attacks, Pastor Wright implied that they were deserved.

The word "indignation" has a very specific meaning. To question indignation is to question anger over something which is unjust. And that is what the maleficent Pastor Wright did... He questioned indignation over attacks which were totally unjust. Fuck him for that.

But, hey... Pastor Wright's words are just words, right?

[Ashy Larry]

58. I understand what indignation means.

I just don't think you understand the point he was trying to make. Maybe he should have chosen a different word. In any case, I don't understand your "indignation" over his comments.

[JTFrog]

18. Nothing like fighting over who is best at selling stories about fictionary people in the sky and

who should be dictating our morals to us.


Can we PLEASE get religion out of our politics and vice versa.

[The Night Owl]

27. I agree with you, but to be fair...

I agree with you, but to be fair, all the presidential candidates are afflicted with religion.

[Gullvann]

I cannot believe all the blatant racism that

seems to be kosher at DU these days.

Shameful and sad.

[Taxmyth]

19. Racial Unrest

being preached by Obama supporters. Is this really what we want?

[goclark]

23. She once knew a lot about African American churches

She and Bill didn't ask any questions.
They went to every one of our churches to make us think that they were supportive of us.

All they wanted were our votes and I would love to see the list of the AA churches that gave them money, worked their campaign and stood in long line to vote for them.

I was so stuck when she spoke at a Black church in the beginning of the campaign.

She had the nerve to start her speech speaking in a Black English mode and saying, " I ain't in no ways tired."

I almost fell on the floor wondering how she felt that she could walk into our church and assume that she would try to act like we do.

I knew then that she was pandering not loving or respecting us.

And I am vindicated.

[tv45]

24. Let's all take a deep breath...

A lot of hostility in here today.

The bottom line is Hillary isn't a racist and Obama isn't either. But the difference is that Hillary is willing to exploit peoples' racism in order to win votes. And white America is scared of angry black men.

Anyway, let's lighten the mood a bit:

http://www.thearch-info.com/News/Politics/Hillarys_Underground_Network.html

Funny article about that very subject entitled: In Light of Obama Pastor Scandal, Hillary "Thankful" to Worship Devil.

[Vinca]

35. Odd she and Bill chose to call on Rev. Wright to travel to the White House

and help counsel Bill after the Lewinsky embarrassment.

[elixir]

40. Too bad you feel you need to rely on Barack Obama's race as ammunition. Can't you judge the

candidates on their merits?

[Cha]

41. hilary is in the final stages of turning herself

into the laughing stock of the world..the comedians will eat for years on her stuff.

[Beacool]

50. Not every African American attends that kind of church.

Two of my black co-workers (one is very religious) are appalled at the kind of venom spewed by Rev. Wright from the pulpit. The religious one is particularly offended that he would say G-D in the house of the Lord, as she put it.

Let's not do a disservice to the black community by assuming that most of them attend services like the ones given by Rev. Wright. My Lutheran church has two women pastors at the moment (one white, one black) and the parishioners conform a mix of ethnicities (in my town it's known as the rainbow church because of its inclusiveness). Never in my 17 years of attending that church and having various pastors, have I heard anything as remotely divisive or offensive as the sermons of Rev. Wright.

So, I too wouldn't have sat for 20 years in a pew of that church.

[Life Long Dem]

54. She is using one of her distractions from the Bosnia sniper statements

Feb 29th in TX is another sniper statement.

[AGirl]

63. You grew up a privileged white girl - fucking sexist