Do the latest gaffes of Hillary show why she was against Internet freedom back in the 90's?

[1776Forever]

Per James L. Hirsen, J.D., Ph.D Essay written in 1999, Government Gatekeepers Come After the Internet:

http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/Hirsen-internet8-99.html

Hillary Rodham Clinton quote:

"We're all going to have to rethink how we deal with the Internet. As exciting as these new developments are, there are a number of serious issues without any kind of editing function or gatekeeping function... ."

According to Reuters (February 11, 1998), Hillary Rodham Clinton made this statement in Washington on February 11 in response to reporters who asked her whether she favored curbs on the Internet.

And so it was that on August 5, 1999, President Clinton signed Executive Order 13133. A new bureaucracy called a "working group" was established to devise ways in which the Internet could be policed.

The group, headed by Attorney General Janet Reno, was charged with the task of determining "the extent to which new technology tools, capabilities, or legal authorities may be required for effective investigation and prosecution of unlawful conduct that involves the use of the Internet."

In order to give Reno and her associates some means of justifying the assigned patrol duty, a law restricting political speech on the Internet was advanced in the form of the Shays-Meehan campaign finance bill currently proposed in Congress.

This piece of legislation turns out to be a direct attack on civic free speech. The vehicle chosen to mount the assault was the Federal Election Commission (FEC). Incredibly, upon passage of the bill the FEC would gain authorization to regulate certain types of political content anywhere on the World Wide Web.

It seems as though disregarding the Constitution, as well as recent Supreme Court holdings such as Buckley v. Valeo, are insufficient violations for the current crop of high-ranking officials. They also want to limit the easily accessible forum for political discourse that the Internet provides.

The scenario would play out something like this. If an individual wanted to use the Internet to discuss the ideology of a specific political candidate, that individual would first have to register with the FEC.

Before a person could set up a web site to furnish information about a candidate of choice, post a comment on an Internet bulletin board or even send an e-mail expressing an opinion, a name and address would have to be provided. Additionally, that person would have to register and make various disclosures to the FEC.

In the event that an individual were able to circumvent the eyes of the government by using encryption technology, the Department of Justice wants the authorization to surreptitiously break into private residences and incapacitate security apparatuses of computers. Complete penetration of any zone of privacy involving electronic information appears to be the ultimate goal.

One means that individuals have employed to ensure a semblance of technological seclusion is the use of encryption. This security device, though, complicates matters even further by creating a powerful electronic shield that places material completely beyond government penetration.

Encryption threatens one project in particular. In what sounds like an outtake from an Oliver Stone movie, a panel of the European Parliament has revealed that a secret international consortium consisting of the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and New Zealand have been monitoring one anothers’ citizens for years.

This group, code named Echelon, has been listening to all communications broadcast by satellite, microwave relays, the Internet and cable. Information is passed through computers, which sort out the data by looking for keywords in order to obtain details concerning, nations, businesses, organizations and individuals. The potential for abuse by governmental authorities is virtually unlimited.

We are in an era where attempts to manipulate the public are frequently employed, where crises are oftentimes manufactured to effectuate desired outcomes and solutions are conveniently provided by the inventors of said crises. In this manner, counterfeit heroes are created and clandestine objectives are accomplished.

........

:hide: Is this as surprising to some as it was to me? Hmmmmmmmmmm

[ORDagnabbit]

1. because the facade she has built up of who she is crumbles under the glare of reality and facts

[Dogmudgeon]

5. Try THIS reality from the same people and website:

http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/08/discernment/3-19-easter.htm">What is Oprah Teaching About EASTER?

--p!

[1776Forever]

7. I want people to read the post and deny it with links! Can you???

I showed where Bush was using the ECHELON technology too. Is this true or not? If you want to deny it show where it is false!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

[Dogmudgeon]

9. Where's Hillary mentioned? She isn't.

Bill Clinton?

Janet Reno?

Al Gore?

Nowhere.

You have lied. Poorly.

You still have time to delete by editing.

--p!

[1776Forever]

15. According to Reuters (Feb 1998), Hillary Rodham Clinton made this statement

Hillary Rodham Clinton quote:

According to Reuters (February 11, 1998), Hillary Rodham Clinton made this statement in Washington on February 11 in response to reporters who asked her whether she favored curbs on the Internet.

"We're all going to have to rethink how we deal with the Internet. As exciting as these new developments are, there are a number of serious issues without any kind of editing function or gatekeeping function... ."

And then in 1999 President Clinton signed Executive Order 13133 -

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13133

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in order to address unlawful conduct that involves the use of the Internet, it is hereby ordered as follows:

Section 1. Establishment and Purpose. (a) There is hereby established a working group to address unlawful conduct that involves the use of the Internet ("Working Group"). The purpose of the Working Group shall be to prepare a report and recommendations concerning: (1) The extent to which existing Federal laws provide a sufficient basis for effective investigation and prosecution of unlawful conduct that involves the use of the Internet, such as the illegal sale of guns, explosives, controlled substances, and prescription drugs, as well as fraud and child pornography. (2) The extent to which new technology tools, capabilities, or legal authorities may be required for effective investigation and prosecution of unlawful conduct that involves the use of the Internet; and (3) The potential for new or existing tools and capabilities to educate and empower parents, teachers, and others to prevent or to minimize the risks from unlawful conduct that involves the use of the Internet.

(b) The Working Group shall undertake this review in the context of current Administration Internet policy, which includes support for industry self-regulation where possible, technology-neutral laws and regulations, and an appreciation of the Internet as an important medium both domestically and internationally for commerce and free speech.

Sec. 2. Schedule. The Working Group shall complete its work to the greatest extent possible and present its report and recommendations to the President and Vice President within 120 days of the date of this order. Prior to such presentation, the report and recommendations shall be circulated through the Office of Management and Budget for review and comment by all appropriate Federal agencies.

Sec. 3. Membership.

(a) The Working Group shall be composed of the following members: (1) The Attorney General (who shall serve as Chair of the Working Group). (2) The Director of the Office of Management and Budget. (3) The Secretary of the Treasury. (4) The Secretary of Commerce. (5) The Secretary of Education. (6) The Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. (7) The Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. (8) The Administrator of the Drug Enforcement Administration. (9) The Chair of the Federal Trade Commission. (10) The Commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration; and (11) Other Federal officials deemed appropriate by the Chair of the Working Group.

(b) The co-chairs of the Interagency Working Group on Electronic Commerce shall serve as liaison to and attend meetings of the Working Group. Members of the Working Group may serve on the Working Group through designees.

William J. Clinton
The White House,
August 5, 1999.
...........

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

28. Interesting, Hill's so-called experience of being 1st lady only counts

when it's positive stuff I guess?

[DJ13]

2. The DLC has always worked towards facism

The original Patriot Act was drawn up by the Clinton administration (and voted down by the GOP in Congress).

Facism requires government control over free speech.

[1776Forever]

3. Thanks for the history lesson - I am learning new things everyday - some not happy ones.

:dilemma:

[Zodiak]

11. Yup

The ties between the DLC and the neocons are deep and should be troubling to all of us. With both parties hijacked, there is no other road we are going on except the path to hell.

This primary is important for a great deal of reasons.

[Dogmudgeon]

4. Team Obama at DU reaches into the Radical Right sewer -- *again*

How does this apply to Hillary?

This latest "dirt" on Hillary comes from a radical-rightist neo-conservative think-tank (so-called) -- Kjos Ministries. You know, the Rapture and Creationism and submissive wives and anti-UN ranting -- ?

It's also a minor masterpiece of redacted information and innuendo.

And why not also blame Al Gore for this? Remember, Vice-President Al Gore? Technology development advocate? He was a major part of these programs and hearings.

--p!

[1776Forever]

6. The quote is from Reuters - More on ECHELON still being used by CIA link...........

Your turn to deny and prove this is wrong!

Here is more on ECHELON
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

Controversy


The proposed U.S. only "Total Information Awareness" program relied on technology similar to that supposedly used by ECHELON, and is believed to have been intended to integrate the extensive sources it is legally permitted to survey domestically with the "taps" already supposedly compiled by ECHELON. It was canceled by the U.S. Congress in 2004. It was later discovered in 2005 that the CIA had not dismantled the program, but had simply blacklisted it as classified and funded it using CIA money allocated for such top secret operations, thereby defying Congress.

It has been alleged that in 2002 the Bush Administration extended the ECHELON program to domestic surveillance

...........

Deny it!!!!!!!!!!:grr:

[Dogmudgeon]

8. You cite a radical religious Rightist, and you make demands on ME?

Nowhere in the highly authoritative Wikipedia article does Hillary Clinton's name appear.

And how is she connected at all with Echelon?

She isn't. You lied. Your religious buddies would say that you have "borne false witness".

So save your hypocritical, grade-school anger for the scumbags you quote from.

--p!

[1776Forever]

10. You HRC supporters are just lke her - move on there is nothing to see here!

You deny she said what Reuters quoted her as saying?

You deny that the ECHELON program was manipulated by Bill Clinton with Hillary's backing????

Show us links!!!!!!!!!

Or except that they both wanted to control information!

[Dogmudgeon]

14. You can't rant your way out of your duplicity.

"You HRC supporters" -- ?

Sure. I don't like seeing honest people slandered by a pack of stupid, brutish, lying thugs who think they're ushering in a New Age of hope and unity by character assassination and intimidation.

You don't know the first thing about How A Bill Becomes A Law. You don't know what the CIA is or how it operates, and you never made the effort to follow how the old Bush faction of the CIA worked to undermine Bill Clinton. This was well-reported even by the Clinton-hating leftists at Counterpunch. You can't even make your own fraudulent case that Hillary was involved in Echelon.

And because I pointed it out, I'm the bad guy.

Stop whining and stamping your feet. There is nothing deep or revelatory here -- it's simply you doing anything you can to destroy Hillary Clinton, like a million other venom-carriers.

And you may even succeed.

--p!

[1776Forever]

16. You amaze me - You are denying this happen? How can you deny it?

What is wrong with you people - I am not slandering anyone - it is a quote from Reuters for God sake! I give up on you and those who have closed minds!

Hillary Rodham Clinton quote:

According to Reuters (February 11, 1998), Hillary Rodham Clinton made this statement in Washington on February 11 in response to reporters who asked her whether she favored curbs on the Internet.

"We're all going to have to rethink how we deal with the Internet. As exciting as these new developments are, there are a number of serious issues without any kind of editing function or gatekeeping function... ."

And then in 1999 President Clinton signed Executive Order 13133 -

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13133

[Zodiak]

18. She is connected in that her husband was President

as the OP states clearly. The conflation of their principles was enforced by the quote...that is the central premise of the argument.

I may not like the source of the rest of the essay, but the quote is true.

From Slate:

"But the campaign's distaste for its own blunder is consistent with the candidate's past statements about Internet reporting. At a March 11, 1998, news conference, the first lady was asked about news dissemination on the Internet. She responded: "We're all going to have to rethink how we deal with the Internet. As exciting as these new developments are, there are a number of serious issues without any kind of editing function or gatekeeping function. What does it mean to have the right to defend your reputation or to respond to what someone says?"

When asked whether the Internet should be regulated, she responded, "Any time an individual leaps so far ahead of that balance and throws the system, whatever it might be—political, economic, technological—out of balance, you've got a problem."

http://www.slate.com/id/83288

But we all know that Hillary is from the more authoritarian wing of the party (DLC) as evidenced from her support for Kyl/Leiberman, her flag burning amendment, and her crusade against suggestive and violent video games. This quote is not surprising, and her support for the Patriot Act indicates that she is no friend of the proponents of the free internet or of privacy in general.

Al Gore was DLC at the time, as well, and pretty much taking marching orders from them (which partially ended up costing him the election), so it is no surprise to me that he would have been in on Echelon, as well. The Al Gore of today is not the Al Gore of yesterday...he is free from such political obligations. The Al Gore of yesterday tried to curtail my favorite form of music as a publicity stunt and to support his wife....I friggin' couldn't care less about THAT Al Gore. Let's not conflate the two.

[1776Forever]

21. Thank you for the honest converstation on this issue - I wanted to get opinions on this

Not argue about it. If someone can show otherwise let them show us links that support this. That is all I wanted to do - we should know these things! I think this is VERY important information! Access to our government politicians keep them honest in my opinion!

[Zodiak]

26. I'm honest about my arguments, can't help that

but I am not unbiased. I am a strong opponent of the DLC and thereby an Obama supporter by default. I also a strong advocate of populism and the privacy of individuals. Just so you and everyone else who is curious knows where I am coming from.

The best thing you can do to deflect these kinds of arguments ahead of time is to cross reference your piece with the info out there and link that instead of this piece. Right-wing sources get people's hackles up....even if their central argument is essentially true.

[1776Forever]

27. Noted - I did try to find this referenced somewhere else - Thanks for the link you found!

:toast:

[jkshaw]

12. "Do the latest guffaws of Hillary ..."

1776, do you mean gaffes?

[1776Forever]

13. Thank you I changed it - I was trying to be civil and not call it lies.

:blush:

[depakid]

17. It certainly is impressive what some people will swallow

hook, line and sinker.

Some of you fools even recommended this....

:rofl:

[1776Forever]

20. Funny isn't it? Yeah real funny! Reuters and the Executive Order 13133 cannot be denied!

FACTS:

Hillary Rodham Clinton quote:

According to Reuters (February 11, 1998), Hillary Rodham Clinton made this statement in Washington on February 11 in response to reporters who asked her whether she favored curbs on the Internet.

"We're all going to have to rethink how we deal with the Internet. As exciting as these new developments are, there are a number of serious issues without any kind of editing function or gatekeeping function... ."

And then in 1999 President Clinton signed Executive Order 13133 -

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13133

............

Really funny!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah I am laughing too - I am laughing so hard I am crying!


:puke:

[depakid]

22. Odd how there isn't widespread censorship in the states, eh?

Some of you all will say pretty much anything- and use any source- to smear Hillary or Obama.

May 18, 2006

Statement of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton on Net Neutrality

Washington, DC – “I support net neutrality. The open architecture of the Internet has been the critical element that has made it the most revolutionary communications medium since the advent of the television.

Each day on the Internet views are discussed and debated in an open forum without fear of censorship or reprisal. The Internet as we know it does not discriminate among its users. It does not decide who can enter its marketplace and it does not pick which views can be heard and which ones silenced. It is the embodiment of the fundamental democratic principles upon which our nation has thrived for hundreds of years.

I have always, and will continue to strongly and unequivocally support these principles. As I have worked throughout my Senate career to make broadband access readily available throughout New York State and our nation, I believe that maintaining an open Internet coupled with more broadband access is necessary if we are to meet the promise and the potential of the Internet to disseminate ideas and information, enhance learning, education and business opportunities for all Americans and improve and uplift our citizenry.

We must embrace an open and non-discriminatory framework for the Internet of the 21st century. Therefore, it is my intention to be an original cosponsor of the Dorgan and Snowe net neutrality legislation to ensure that open, unimpaired and unencumbered Internet access for both its users and content providers is preserved as Congress debates the overhaul of our nation’s telecommunications laws. Any effort to fundamentally alter the inherently democratic structure of the Internet must be rejected.”

http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=255815

[1776Forever]

23. Sounds like she did a 360 on the issue - I hope she can be trusted to do just that.

This is something that bothered me and I wanted to get it out there. If she truly is for transparency she should do more to reinforce it.

[depakid]

24. She's been a sponser of net neutrality from the outset

Note also that this was well before she announced her candidacy.

Yep- net neutrality is an important issue in the states- but it will NOT get passed and signed unless there's a Democrat in the Whitehouse in 2009.

[1776Forever]

25. I still found this interesting - never knew about it ----

Here is more on ECHELON
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

Controversy

The proposed U.S. only "Total Information Awareness" program relied on technology similar to that supposedly used by ECHELON, and is believed to have been intended to integrate the extensive sources it is legally permitted to survey domestically with the "taps" already supposedly compiled by ECHELON. It was canceled by the U.S. Congress in 2004. It was later discovered in 2005 that the CIA had not dismantled the program, but had simply blacklisted it as classified and funded it using CIA money allocated for such top secret operations, thereby defying Congress.

It has been alleged that in 2002 the Bush Administration extended the ECHELON program to domestic surveillance.

...........

[meow mix]

19. Yes. K&R

[dailykoff]

29. "serious issues without any kind of editing function or gatekeeping function... ."

Sorry Hilly, this ain't CNN.