Voting for McCain because your candidate didn't get the nomination, is like...

[JuniperLea]

Drinking poison and expecting your enemy to die.

Seriously.

[sandnsea]

1. For the first time in my life

I just won't vote for President if Hillary is the nominee. I understand people who can't vote against their principles. Her character is as bad as Bush and Cheney's.

[JuniperLea]

2. You may as well vote for McCain...

If you aren't going to vote against him.

[sandnsea]

9. No.

There is a difference between giving him a vote and just not voting.

[JuniperLea]

15. And you see no value in making it harder for a Republican

To be prez for four more years? Really? See, that's the part I just don't get. I may be used to voting for the lesser of two evils, but in this case, I will be and I have come to terms with it.

I don't care for Hillary or Obama... not in the least... but I will, without question, vote for the nom... because it's the right thing to do.

[MonkeyFunk]

4. and I very likely will now withhold my vote if Obama's

the nominee. It all evens out.

[sandnsea]

8. Keep the blinders on

That's the only way you can believe Obama is anything like Hillary.

[roguevalley]

11. don't be surprised when the draft comes and it will. Senator Insane

will be all war, all the time. Enjoy.

[JuniperLea]

21. The Republican Party Thanks You... eom

[OmahaBlueDog]

55. SCOTUS people...SCOTUS, SCOTUS, SCOTUS

No matter what your stripe in this fiasco, all of you "I
won't vote for [Obama/Clinton] because [Clinton/Obama] didn't
get nominated and voting for [Obama/Clinton] is [just as bad
as supporting Millard Fillmore, worse than your SO finding out
you have the clap, a sign of the coming apocalypse]"
people need to repeat this sentence to yourself like a mantra.

"John Paul Stevens is old....John Paul Stevens is
old....John Paul Stevens is old"

Some of you of both voting persuasions -- people I would
expect to know better -- need to wake up. Your vote, you door
knocking, your $20 contribution may be the diff between
getting another Bader-Ginsburg or another Alito. 

[democrattotheend]

13. It's not about character. It's about the voters whose lives are affected by the president's policies

I wrote this earlier but decided not to post it, because it might be perceived as flamebait:

Clinton supporters, do me a favor
I have said many times that I will vote for Hillary Clinton if she is the Democratic nominee. I stand by that promise, but I may need some reminding in November.

So please, come November, remind me of the soldiers whose lives will be lost after 4 more years in Iraq. Remind me of the people who can't wait four more years for health care. Remind me of the exploding debt that will cripple our future and our children's future if we keep blowing billions on this senseless war. Remind me of the people who have lost their jobs due to failed Bush policies that reward companies for shipping jobs overseas.

Remind me of the people who are affected most profoundly by the results of this election, and help me avoid the temptation to base my vote on character. Help me avoid the temptation to remember that when the candidate I admired and respected was under fire, his Republican opponent defended him while his fellow Democrat kicked him while he was down. Help me remember what's at stake in this election, because if I am tempted to pick the person over the platform I am not sure what I would do at the ballot box.

[Joe Bacon]

33. WE CANNOT AFFORD PRESIDENT MC CAIN!

If you want:

BIGGER deficits
MORE war
MORE Free Trade
MORE Socialism for the Rich
MORE Foreclosures
MORE Religious Insanity

Then go ahead, don't vote and let Mc Cain get in!

PLEASE! I FELT THIS WAY IN 1980! AND I WAS STUPID ENOUGH TO VOTE FOR ANDERSON! THAT WAS THE DUMBEST THING I EVER DID!

WE CANNOT AFFORD TO HAVE FOUR MORE YEARS OF INSANE REPUBLICANS IN THE WHITE HOUSE. PERIOD!!!!!!!

[CTyankee]

61. Like you, I stupidly voted for John Anderson in 1980.

What was I thinking?? I swear I must have taken a stupid pill to do that.

A few years later I actually met Anderson. He was the coldest guy I ever saw. I told him that I voted for him and he just looked at me and said nothing, didn't even smile. What an asshole.

And what a dumb thing for me to do.

Any Dem who doesn't vote in 08 will live to regret it. That is, if they are REALLY Democrats (which I sometimes wonder about).

[LSK]

51. HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES MUST THE LESSONS OF 2000 BE TAUGHT???

DID YOU LIKE THE PAST 7 YEARS???

WTF!!!

WHAT THE FUCK!!!

[Milo_Bloom]

3. I wouldn't vote for either Clinton or McCain...

However, I can honestly say I am not sure which is the lesser of two evils in that equation.

[WDIM]

Okay Okay Okay I'll vote for her IF!...

If she promises to get some sleep first!
The sleep deprivation thing has got to stop!

On second thought hmmm can't do it and won't even have to do it. She'll never get the nomination.

[Coexist]

5. if the election were held today

I could not vote for her.

Of course this may change, I've felt like this (to a MUCH lesser degree) before when she was in full frontal attack mode against a Democrat.

But today - she can kiss my white butt.

[ScottS]

6. I can't vote for CORRUPTION. I'd stay home before voting Hillary.

[JuniperLea]

20. The Republican Party Thanks You... eom

[Craftsman]

30. I can't vote for a bigot

So I will not ever vote for BHO.

[LWolf]

7. Not voting for a democratic nominee is

not the same thing as a vote for the republican. All attempts to suggest otherwise are flat out dishonest. Dirty propaganda for dirty campaigning.

Staying at home is just that. Staying at home and not voting. If the democratic nominee cannot earn the votes of democrats and of the natural allies on the independent and 3rd party left, then the democrats who nominated that candidate, and the candidate him/herself is responsible.

Voting for an independent or 3rd party candidate is just that: a vote FOR someone else. Not a vote for the republican.

If you are concerned about the loss of votes for the Democrat in November, I suggest you work to nominate someone who can EARN the votes needed.

Oh, right. It's already too late for that. Then I suggest you work for a brokered convention which will result in a candidate that CAN do so.

[Araxen]

10. Prepared to be flamed

It's either vote for Hilary or you are for the repubs. There's no in between with alot of people here sadly.

[LWolf]

14. No,

it's either vote for the nominee in November or you are for republicans.

It's very black and white, very two dimensional.

My flame suit is pretty sturdy. ;)

[JuniperLea]

17. That's not what the OP is about...

It's about voting for the Democratic nominee, regardless. I don't give a flying rat's ass who get the nom. I just want to be sure there are enough Democrats out there actually voting for a Democrat.

[JuniperLea]

18. Bullshit

There is no way a 3rd party candidate can be elected in this GE. Voting for the Democrat is the right thing to do. Withholding votes is stupid. Voting for a 3rd party is stupid. Voting for the Dem is the only way to make sure we don't have McCain = four more years.

[LWolf]

25. Whether or not anyone can be elected is beside the point.

If you want to make sure that McCain doesn't get enough votes in November to win, make sure you nominate someone that will.

If you nominate someone that can't unify the democratic party, the independent left, and the 3rd party left, you can hardly complain if you don't get those votes.

If you don't like votes going to 3rd party candidates, nominate someone who will bring those votes in. Or don't.

It's every citizen's right to vote for the candidate of their choice, whether or not that candidate can win. Rather than working to bully people into casting a "hold your nose for the lesser of two evils" vote, why not offer a candidate who will win legitimate support from those you think might split the left vote?

[JuniperLea]

43. Unless you have an infallible crystal ball...

There is no way to know some of these things.

Neither Clinton nor Obama have done well in this regard, but either would still be far better than four more years of the Bush Regime via McCain.

It's too late for a viable 3rd party candidate; this sort of action needed to take place at the very beginning of the primary season.

We have no more options at this point. Either a Democrat sits in the White House next year, or a Republican. The lot has already been cast; we must work with what we have.

Bully? Please. This is called self-preservation. Anyone who cannot see that we are in a live or die situation right now just isn't paying attention. We have two choices: Four more years, or unite behind the Democratic party. If someone refuses to vote, they have still made a choice, and that choice is for McCain.

[LWolf]

44. Much of what you say is true.

I don't have an infallible crystal ball. Neither, of course, does anyone with an opposing pov.

It's possible that Clinton and/or Obama would be slightly less damaging than 4 more years of another republican. It's also possible that they would guarantee 8 more years of no progress on issues that don't benefit the ruling corporate state. It's also quite possible, and even likely, according to my "crystal ball," that this part of the argument is moot, since I don't think either one of them can win in November, for the reasons already given.

It's too late for a viable 3rd party candidate, but it's not too late for a 3rd party candidate to draw off votes from those disgusted with the debacle this primary has become. That's not a vote for McCain. Only votes for McCain are votes for McCain. It CAN be seen as a vote of no-confidence in the Democratic nominee, and for the Democratic Party.

That's why I'm holding out for the draw, and subsequent brokered convention. It's admittedly a long-shot, but I'll go with the long-shot possibility of a different Democratic nominee that can unify the party and win in November before I succumb to the inevitable disaster I see looming with either Clinton or Obama.

[JuniperLea]

45. It would take a very heavy hitter, like Gore...

For this to work. I'm all for it, if it happens.

I agree about the looming inevitable disaster, though. They are both only slightly better than McCain. I'll go for slightly if we can't find a power-house 3rd party candidate.

If there's a chance of that, then it is in our best interest for Hillary and Obama to stay in this race until the convention. I don't hold to the "Hillary is tearing the party apart" meme at all. I actually think the opposite is true. The only drawback is the stupidity of people who will choose to "just stay home" come the GE.

I've always held out hope that Gore would step back in the race... could happen.

[LWolf]

49. That's the hope I'm holding on to, holding out for.

While a long-shot, it seems the best outcome, and I'll hold to it, and work for it, as long as it is still possible.

I agree that Gore is the heavy-hitter we need. I like Gore. I voted for him in 2000, despite Lieberman. He's not nearly as "left" as I am, but then, neither is the majority of the country, lol.

A Gore nomination not only unifies the party and helps us win in November, it brings a fitting end to the 8 years of nightmare under GWB.

[JuniperLea]

66. And...

Gore would take his rightful position, long fought and paid for!

Unity is what we need. This country wouldn't survive four more years, and that's exactly what we'd get if McCain wins.

[LWolf]

68. While I appreciate

your sig pic, I really like being able to agree on some things!

[Orsino]

26. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

If you think the Republican has a significant chance of victory, and you fail to vote against him, you are knowingly contributing. It's an awesome responsibility, so such statements should be used very judiciously. I wish that we could have had a progressive/liberal candidate, too, but our choices have dwindled to something more nuanced. And failing to decide is still a decision, principled or not.

We are all responsible for what our government does, whether we show up to vote or not. I think there's an obvious greater of three evils; don't you?

[LWolf]

27. Speaking of nuances,

while I'm a registered Democrat, I'm not a partisan. For me, the only purpose of a party is to advance issues. I'm an issues voter. The issue for me at this point in time is Corporatism. I will not vote for a centrist/corporatist/3rd way candidate of any party. That effectively eliminates all 3 of the evils.

The only way to keep a corporatist out of office is to stop voting for them.

Republicans don't have a monopoly on the politics of fear. Democrats are just as willing to pull out the boogie-man to scare people into voting for unacceptable candidates.

[Orsino]

29. I agree that corporatism is at the heart of most (all?) of our woes...

...but Republicans are obviously working harder to advance it, and that makes a key difference for me. The only possibility of change (and it is a remote one) lies with the Democrats, or with some other party that doesn't seem able to win national elections.

I feel I have to vote against Republicans any chance I get, though I know that this helps to breed complacency into Democrats.

[LWolf]

34. It's a no-win situation.

I see that the Democrats are, by and large, corporation-pleasers as well. I see corporations playing us; when a republican is in office, full-steam ahead with the agenda, devastating the masses. When the masses get angry enough, replace the R with a D who will talk big, do little, and corporations are still in fine shape, with people still waiting for their democratic saviors to do something; there are now other excuses why nothing happens (votes not there, etc..)

That's why I will not be voting for another corporate candidate...ever. I understand your reasoning, though. I used it myself for many years. :(

[JuniperLea]

39. Well said!!!

And a good Rush reference, to boot!


There are those who think that life has nothing left to chance take,
A host of holy horrors to direct our aimless dance.

A planet of playthings,
We dance on the strings
Of powers we cannot perceive
"The stars aren't aligned,
Or the gods are malign..."
Blame is better to give than receive.

Chorus
You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose freewill.

There are those who think that they were dealt a losing hand,
The cards were stacked against them; they weren't born in Lotusland.

All preordained
A prisoner in chains
A victim of venomous fate.
Kicked in the face,
You can't pray for a place
In heaven's unearthly estate.

Chorus

Each of us
A cell of awareness
Imperfect and incomplete.
Genetic blends
With uncertain ends
On a fortune hunt that's far too fleet.



Quite apropos, now that I review~!

[LSK]

52. OH,SO YOU LOVED THE PAST 7 YEARS THEN???

LETS JUST FUCKING CONTINUE THEM!!!

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[LWolf]

56. Red Herring.

Whether or not I want "another seven years" is irrelevant to the fact that not voting for the Democrat is not the same thing as voting for the republican.

It really doesn't matter how loud you scream a logical fallacy; it's still a fallacy.

Facts:

We will not have another 8 years under GWB unless he manages to completely abolish elections between now and November.

Withholding a vote is not the same thing as voting for something.

Voting for "C" is not the same thing as voting for "B."

[LSK]

62. bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran and MATH

1 + 1 = 2

1 + 0 = 1

ITS NOT THAT HARD A CONCEPT.

[LWolf]

63. Yes, I can do the math.

The math doesn't support the fact that a non-vote, (zero, or "C,") or a vote for a 3rd party (1, or "D") does not equal a vote for McCain ("B".)

If you want the math to come out with a Democratic win, you must first of all ensure that votes will be counted accurately, and secondly, make sure that the Democrats EARN the votes that might go "C" or "D."

If you are sure that those "C" and "D" votes are needed to counteract the "B" votes. Many Democrats are not concerned; they have already written off the "Cs" and "Ds."

Others are under the tremendous misconception that voters can be bullied into changing "C" and "D" votes to "A" (Democratic) votes, and are busy at work trying to intimidate and bully those votes into line, rather than working to EARN them.

[LSK]

64. tell me, was Al Gore an 'A', 'B', 'C' or 'D' candidate?

Also John McCain is an 'F' candidate as is a candidate that has NO CHANCE of winning.

[LWolf]

65. He is none of the above.

Neither, at this point in time, is Obama or Clinton. Should he emerge from a brokered convention with the nomination, he becomes the "A" candidate.

As does anyone else who secures the nomination.

Edited to add:

If you are referring to 2000, then he was obviously the "A" candidate.

The math in 2000 was obviously corrupted. He won the popular vote, but didn't win the electoral votes. A rare occurrence, which wouldn't have happened without election fraud.

It's true that he lost some votes to "D" candidates. Not enough to make a difference, without the election fraud.

I voted for Gore in 2000. But not in Florida.

I'd love to have the chance to vote for him again this November.

[charlie]

12. Like burning the house down with all of us in it

I never give anyone grief for withholding their vote or voting third party. Your vote is your own and there's nothing dishonorable about casting it as you see fit.

But voting DIRECTLY for an insane Republican from petulance is beyond stupid, it's fucking evil.

[Kurovski]

16. It's like taking Viagra and expecting not to get fucked.

No, yours is better.

[JuniperLea]

19. Withholding your vote is just as bad...

There is so much hate floating about for both HRC and BHO, that a choice to stay home instead only increases the chance that McCain will win.

If you stay home, the Republican party thanks you.

[Thepricebreaker]

22. 20% say they will... if it holds true - we lost already...

I am not voting for Hillary... leaving my vote blank if she gets the nomination. Sorry I dont give people a pass because they have a (D) after their name.

[JuniperLea]

23. Exactly my point... sad, isn't it?

People are so poisoned by the Kool Aid they can't think straight... and the Republican Party thanks them all...

[Craftsman]

31. The only hope is to dump both of them and get soemone else at the convention

Both are damaged goods

[JuniperLea]

37. From your keyboard to Goddess's eyes!

I'm ready for that~

[stillcool]

24. we'll see...

between now and November there may be a lot of hoof in mouth disease running around. There may be the lowest percentage ever voting in this election. Who will have won then?

[apocalypsehow]

28. I'm voting for whoever the Democratic nominee is.

n/t.

[JuniperLea]

40. I'm always happy to see this... eom

[kwyjibo]

53. Me too. I know who I want it to be, but in the grand scheme of things,

I need to do what I can to keep someone like McCain out of the White House.

We've all been here bitching about Bush for 7 years, and now that we have two amazing candidates that we can choose from, we're deciding to be picky? Despite all of their bad qualities, either one of them will be better than what we have now. By far.

[DemVet]

32. Agreed n/t

[SoCalDem]

35. root canal for dentures

[meow mix]

36. what about when one of them endorses mccain.

x(

[JuniperLea]

38. That was NOT an endorsement... get over it...

That particular spin is one of the many, many reasons I can't stand Obama... Can't stand either of them at this point.

[Jed Dilligan]

41. I don't know that my CA vote will matter

or whether the chunks of barf on my ballot will render it invalid if I do get up and vote for her.

[metalluk]

42. Voting for McCain . . .

or whichever other candidate you decide will be best for the country is what responsible, thinking Americans do. Voting for any old underqualified neophyte that your preferred Party nominates is like feeding the country poison and hoping that its health will improve.

[JuniperLea]

47. I hardly think four more years of the same would be good for...

Our country... or any other country on Earth for that matter.

[crankychatter]

48. The GOP is accepting registrations

don't let the door hit you in the ass, princess

[crankychatter]

46. I like the Donkey Donnybrook

yup

[uponit7771]

50. You're right, there's little wisdom in that position.

[Swamp Rat]

54. More like, disemboweling oneself, frying one's intestines, and then serving it to McCain.

[PylesMalfunction]

57. I think anyone who doesn't vote for the Dem nominee...

is a fucking asshole. Plain and simple - I'm not usually so crude but this is ridiculous. If my candidate doesn't get the nominee, I plan on getting drunk beforehand but I'll still go to the polls and vote for them. And after that, I plan on donating time and money to people and organizations to get the Democratic party moving in the direction I'd like it to move so I have a better choice the next time an election comes around.

How many more reasons do you need?!!!!!!!

[galaxy21]

58. Their policies are EXACTLY the same

In that respect, there's no difference between them.

[JerseygirlCT]

59. Yup. Totally agree. nt

[The Stranger]

60. Voting for McCain because your candidate didn't get the nomination, is like....

. . voting for Hillary Clinton -- they use the same tactics.

[Sparkly]

67. It's like staying in a war LONGER because we're losing our asses.

It's like enabling more corporate tax cuts because your candidate said something mean about my candidate.

It's like cheering for a conservative-nutjob-majority on the USSC, because your candidate is too conservative.

It's like cutting off your boobs to spite your bra, or something.