Memories

[H2O Man]

Today, Senator Hillary Clinton said, "So I made a mistake. That happens." Her campaign aides say that she simply "misspoke."

I am reminded of when I. Liar "Scooter" Libby said he remembered a discussion with Tim Russert which never happened. His attorneys said he "misremembered."

The truth is that human beings do forget things. However, we do not tend to remember things that never happened. The judge and jury did not believe Libby.

In campaigns, there are three groups: (a) those who always support you; (2) those who always oppose you; and (3) the undecided. It seems likely that Clinton's Group A will accept that she simply misspoke and misremembered her experience; that Group B will conclude she was dishonest, and trying to inflate her record. The question is how Group C will view this story.

[Coexist]

1. I don't know.

I guess the rolling averages will tell us in three days time.

[Shakespeare]

2. Well, I'm in group C.

And I'm disgusted by the exaggerations, and even MORE disgusted by the refusal to own up to it after being caught flat-footed in a lie.

If this were a Bush official caught padding his resume, we'd be howling with outrage. Nobody, even the most ardent supporter, should make excuses for this. She fucked up, plain and simple.

[H2O Man]

4. The media coverage

presents a serious problem for Senator Clinton. If the reports were limited to newspaper articles, it would have a limited impact; if the film clips were limited to the YouTube audience, it would reach a specific audience. But by being on the cable and network news, it reaches a wide audience in a powerful way.

[dmr]

23. Yes, which is why her 'mis-spoke' doesn't fly

The media is showing the clip of her 'mis-speaking'. Watch her mis-speak. She is 'recalling' her story in detailed animation, especially when describing the bullets flying part. She's quite an actress describing a very horrifying experience.

As you wrote, it's hard to believe Libby mis-remembered something that didn't happen; it's equally hard to believe Hillary's somewhat detailed and animated 'mis-spoke' visit to Bosnia, with her own (possibly minor) daughter at her side!

She wasn't 'mis-spoke' retelling a fishing tale (pardon the weird word tense & positioning here). She was 'recalling' a horrifying memory. She was attempting to boost her creds to prove she is presidential worthy.

What all those creds mean to me, is she's about as credible as Bush*, who is a champion 'mis-spoker'!

With that said, if the Bosnia experience really happened, most of us here would remember it too. Why? Because the Clintons would have made sure long, long ago, back in the 90s that this happened, and the VRRC would have chastised both of them for putting their daughter in danger.

[gateley]

3. Our memories are funky --

Get two witnesses to the same event and hear the differing versions of "here's how it REALLY happened"...

I heard one author telling the story of how he and his wife were on 5th Ave in NY and by God, there across the street was Jackie Kennedy waving at them! They were a little giddy and didn't know quite how to respond, but there she was, smiling and waving so they smiled and waved back. And did it again.

Then along came the cab she was flagging, she got in and took off.

He regaled a group of friends with this story and later his wife said "but you weren't there. I was there alone. That happened to me, not to us". He was ADAMANT that they were there together - he could see it in his mind clear as day, as though it had happened just hours before. Why, he could even describe the buttons on Jackie's blazer.

Turns out that he hadn't been there, but had heard his wife tell the story so many times that in his memory he was right there with her. And an interesting point -- if he HAD been there with his wife, he wouldn't have been close enough to SEE the buttons on Jackie's blazer.

I myself have disagreed with a friend about doing something (I forget exactly what). I do remember that I kept saying "No, I did it, Anne.." and she said "No, I did it Gateley". To this day I still don't know who "did it".

Keep thinking something and we can program our subconscious minds into making it a "real" memory.

I'm not saying that's what happened in this event with Hillary, just that it's a possibility she honestly has incorporated that version into her own memory/reality.

[K Gardner]

8. I don't think anyone told Hillary a false story about sniper fire over and over, which implanted

it into her brain. Sniper fire.. ducking for cover.. running across a tarmac.. these are PTSD-type experiences. No one forgets those just as no one "misremembers" them unless they are frankly psychotic and delusional. Such suggestability and unreliability are not good characteristics for a Commander in Chief. Neither is flat-out lying.

Your antecdote about false memories is spot-on. But not applicable to this case, IMO.

:hi:

[gateley]

11. Good point --

She may have just been embellishing the story for so long that's what she remembers.

[H2O Man]

14. I had two friends

visit me today. One is a veteran. He had the experience of being shot at. The memories are very clear in his mind. I was once the victim of a crime, where I had a shotgun aimed at my head at close range. I remember it well. The other friend has never had a gun aimed at him, nor shot in his direction. He does not have any confusion, where he thinks he remembers bring shot at.

I should add that none of us has any memory of Tim Russert calling us to reveal a CIA operative's identity, either.

[Orsino]

18. Indeed. I would call it a lie, were it not so stupid and easily debunked.

That's what makes me think it was somehow inadvertent. I really think it's possible that she has simply conflated and exaggerated separate incidents. If she really had been hustled away from some foreign stop after a report of gunfire, and never really saw any violence, she could have plugged that memory into another. As much as I like her, I imagine that flower presentation #287 was probably forgettable.

I don't think she just made it up, then--not completely--but she waited longer than she should have to correct her story.

[Me.]

5. Damn

That Scooter thing was exactly what I thought of when the 'mis-spoke' comment was being put forth.

[Taxmyth]

6. First Lady flew into a war zone to boost the morale of troops stationed there

should be the way group C remembers this - that now Senator Clinton 10+ years ago voluntarily flew into a war zone to provide a morale boost for the men and women stationed there.

The danger is obvious and the mission noteworthy.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. That's why I'm voting for Sinbad.

:eyes:

[Symarip]

9. Sinbad/Crow 2008 Sniper Survivors You Can Believe In (nt)

[Me.]

12. Then Why Didn't She Leave It At That?

That should have been the point of view and it would have been enough. No one forced her to do the bullet buzzing embellishment, she did that on her own, 4 times, according to reports.

Also, Roger Simon made an interesting point about the part where she said it was too dangerous to send the president (though apparently he made the same trip 2 weeks earlier) so they sent her. His remark was, it was too dangerous to send the president so he sent his wife and only child instead?

[H2O Man]

13. Roger Simon's point:

Yesterday, when a film of Senator Clinton saying that "they" used to say if a place is too small or too dangerous for the President, send the First Lady, my son said,"Baloney. That is too obvious of a lie. Who are the 'they'? Reporters need to pin her down on this one, because there is no way in hell that anyone in the White House ever said that."

[XemaSab]

21. You forgot "too poor."

And yeah, that's another part here that's like, "Huh?"

So the US President should never go anywhere like most of Africa (too poor, too dangerous, and too small), half of Asia (too poor), virtually the entire western hemisphere (too poor), Iraq (too poor and too dangerous), Russia (too poor and too dangerous), India (too poor), Afghanistan (too poor and too dangerous), half the countries in Europe (too small), or New Zealand (too many hobbits).

So this means the president should go where, exactly?

France, Great Britain, Germany, Canada, Australia, and Japan? :shrug:

[XemaSab]

20. When I originally heard the story weeks ago that's the part that rang false to me too.

It was too dangerous to send the president so they sent the First Lady? :shrug:

(And this was before I knew Chelsea was there too).

[Orsino]

19. Yes. It was probably a Secret Service nightmare...

...with the First Daughter there, too.

[cui bono]

24. If the danger was so obvious then she would not be lying about it in order

to embellish it.

She said there was sniper fire, that they ducked and ran for cover. There is video showing this is not true.

She lied. Intentionally.

[Kurovski]

10. K&R. (nt)

[robertpaulsen]

15. Misspoke? So which part of her statement is inoperative?

My guess is that Group C will smell something familiar in the dissembling that they would prefer to avoid. Time will tell.

[H2O Man]

16. "inoperative"

Well said.

[grantcart]

17. memories gained during moments of fear are not forgotten

[mzmolly]

22. As a former member of group C, albeit an Obama supporter as of late, I will say -

I think this is the end for her. She's no longer viable and/or acceptable as a candidate for the Presidency.

When my Mother starts praddling on about things that did not occur, we tell her to take her anti-psychotics. Either Clinton is delusional, or she's a liar, neither is good.