The Hatred for Hillary Clinton and in general is turning me off as a Democrat

[RestoreGore]

I just have to state that as an observer, and I really don't care if people here like it or not. I think a primary season should be about issues not just "feel good" speeches (and being allowed to question the words and policies of ALL the candidates regarding those issues without fear of being ganged up on,) letting the people vote to decide the outcome (and allowing the process to go as long as need be without media or outside interference,) and focusing on the future. And even though I am not currently supporting either Clinton or Obama, I see the hatred displayed here by many towards Hillary Clinton which is diverting from all of that and I think it has gone beyond healthy. It is like signing onto Free Republic to come here now, and it is turning me off as a Democrat. So much so, that to see it constantly here, in the media, elsewhere, and to see them BOTH doing nothing but squabbling over tax returns and events that happened long ago is turning me off to even wanting to vote and that isn't a good thing.

I don't agree with her vote on the IWR. I don't like the fact that she is a member of the DLC. However, I don't hate her with such a passion that it consumes me to the point of wanting to see her mentally and spiritually broken. And that is the kind of politics we are now seeing being practiced by this media and by many on these sites and I find it to be despicable. Anyone who remembers what the media did to Al Gore and what the RW did by calling him mentally unstable, crazy, nuts, and the entire targeted attacks on his credibility by saying he too was an "embellisher" should then be able to understand from where it is I come from regarding it being done to Hillary Clinton based on principle regardless of what I may think of her policies.

I also do not support Obama at this time. I have questions about his associations, his policies on war, Al Qaeda, increasing the military, all of their climate change platforms which are not good enough, his healthcare plan which does leave many out, and his penchant for "speechifying" over policy. However, even though I would debate those questions and reservations about him passionately I don't hate him and would not condone the hateful and downright obsessive behavior at breaking him down as I am seeing regarding Hillary Clinton.

I lived through the nineties, and yes, while I think NAFTA is a failure and I don't think Bill Clinton was the best president we ever had he sure as hell wasn't the worst, and he brought this country Al Gore as Vice President which is one of the best things he did in my book. So I guess even though I am not fully on board the Clinton train I just can't say it was any worse than what we have seen over the last eight years so again, the hate to me is just very displaced.

In the remaining months I actually hope to see people who are usually disenfranchised in primaries ( and I know how that feels after being one) get the chance to vote. I hope to see this petty, childish behavior on the part of BOTH campaigns over tax returns, who did what twenty years ago, and all of the petty and insulting innuendos about mental breakdowns go away. I hope to see issues discussed that will relate to our future. (An ice shelf in Antartica seven to nine times the size of Manhattan broke off the other day... Has any candidate even mentioned that or the implications of it for the future regarding climate change?) I hope to see Obama vetted more regarding his associations and have to answer tougher questions about his war policy and his policy towards terrorism/military expansion, which from all I have read really mirrors what we have now which makes me uncomfortable. And I also expect to see Clinton talk more about her stance on Iran as well, because that is one of the big issues that has been forgotten in all of the petty squabbling.

I guess I have high hopes because it seems impossible to run a primary campaign on the right schedule anymore because of media interference and the pressure of party big wigs who put party and their own personal hatreds before country, and to me that is what is really hurting this party. We had a chance to show Republicans and the country what Democracy really means by living up to the term make every vote count, and all we have done is turn this campaign into a sideshow of hate and to me it is all very disappointing and far from the "change" these candidates have been preaching to us about.

[olkaz]

1. If you think Democrats hate her, ask a moderate.

Holy mother of god, you'd think she killed their dog.

People just don't like her.

[MonkeyFunk]

6. SOME people just don't like her

but it's silly to deny that that she's popular with many people. Evidently, she's about as popular as Obama.

[stahbrett]

48. 37% postive for Hillary, 49% positive for Obama - not quite "about as popular" (nt)

[Sparkly]

2. Well said!!

:thumbsup:

[NJmaverick]

3. Do you think Hillary has done anything to generate the

animosity?

[madmom]

4. The reason so many people hate her is because they were told to by the msm

[Hugabear]

11. Oh fucking PLEASE

Do you really think that we are all that fucking shallow? That is insulting as hell, and is one of the BIGGEST reasons why we "Obamites" are so fucking hostile towards you and your ilk. You have this attitude that Obama supporters can't think for themselves, that we're just a bunch of idiots who rely 100% on the media to form our opinions.

[durrrty libby]

22. "Do you really think that we are all that fucking shallow?" Absofuckinglutely

[Hugabear]

25. And you wonder why so many people despise your candidate

Thanks for clearing that up, in case some people still had any doubt.

God forbid that uppity senator gets in the way of Hillary and her Manifest Destiny.

[murbley40]

34. Absolutely! You have not demonstrated that you are otherwise.

IMO!

[buff2]

56. Bingo!

[dchill]

70. Your IQ is showing.

[hfojvt]

76. my my look at the replies here

Thank goodness there are no obnoxious Clinton supporters like all those cultish Obamites who are driving people away from the Democratic party with their insulting arrogance.

[madmom]

30. Did I say the reason ALL people hate her? NO I said so many people referring to

mostly republicans.

[RestoreGore]

45. No doubt the media plays a role in this entire process all around. TOO BIG a role n/t

[Hepburn]

5. I have always dislike her....

...and I have never considered Ms. Goldwater Girl one of us.

Your point?

[Hugabear]

7. Were you okay with the hatred towards Obama?

You know, about a month or so ago, when Hillary and her supporters were attacking Obama nonstop for his "fluffy" speeches, lack of experience, etc? Was it okay when Hillary openly mocked Obama because of his message of hope?

[meow mix]

8. Oh but Obama Hate is just fine because you dont support him.

nice to give obama-hate him such a small mention buried in there.
:boring:

[RestoreGore]

24. Thanks for making my point

[Blue_Roses]

9. it shouldn't turn you off as a Democrat, but

make you "saddle up" as Bill Clinton said. Being a Democrat is about much more than supporting a candidate, but supporting the policies and causes they represent. Those policies can be represented through your support, not just for a candidate, but for the cause itself.

[RestoreGore]

40. Oh, I believe that. Which is why I may not be affiliated with any party before long if it keeps up

I will always believe and fight for Democratic principles, but I don't have to support any party that conducts itself like the opposition in it's dirty tactics. And that is exactly what I see happening now on all sides.

[TooBigaTent]

10. The influx of right-wingers into the party will do more damage than only killing

her candidacy. They are killing the principles that have been a part of Democratic thinking for a long time.

As the country and the party go further right, it will be interesting (and sad) to see what the party comes to stand for.

The rampant sexism expressed by the Obama supporters is most disappointing. In addition, his defense/abandonment of Rev. Wright is an example of him trying to run away from the left to appeal to his friends on the right.

From the Clinton side, the attacks on Obama are further signs that the values that I used to think were a given if you were a Dem are now secondary to the quest for power.

A pox on both their campaigns. Where are the real Democrats?

[Lerkfish]

15. unfortunately, they're no longer running.

Kucinich was the most democratic candidate. I was willing to settle for Edwards, who was second, IMHO.

the problem is that the entire party needs to be returned to its roots

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

16. influx? Murdock fundraisers for HRC, HRC interview with Scaife's paper, endorsing McCain

also, at McCain's campaign website, there's a video of Bill Clinton
giving McCain a glowing endorsement as THE one qualified republican candidate.

Sheesh.

HRC has aligned herself with right wingers, showing her true colors all along.

Then her own disparagement of Obama, not to contrast policy but in an effort
to break his back politically - these actions are causing those who love
the democratic party to back away from her.

She, Mark "Blackwater" Penn, her band of corporate lobbyist supporters, and her
kitchen sink are bringing this all upon her.

Her choice.

Just like her vote for the Iraq war.

[Yael]

17. Rampant sexism? Examples?

Not conjecture and made up bullshit -- actual, verifiable examples, please.

[mod mom]

12. DID YOU EVER THINK IT MIGHT BE POLICY AND LACK OF ETHICS RELATED:

WTI, a toxic incinerator 1,100 feet from an Ohio elementary school, Hillary and Bill
By User from Fremont, CA - Feb 25th, 2008 at 3:15 am EST

Every once in awhile you read something and it shocks your conscience. Today was such a day for me. Today I read a story about Hillary and Bill,George Bush the 41st, WTI, Jackson Stephens, a toxic waste incinerator placed 1100 feet from an elementary school in Liverpool Ohio. The town was desperate for jobs and WTI provided an answer at a very tough time. Six months after opening the plant the school kids tested positive for mercury,they were negative in testing prior to the opening. This story goes all the way back to the Rose Law Firm, Hillary and Jackson Stephens.

WTI wanted to build America's largest toxic waste incinerator in East Liverpool, Ohio. The incinerator is located 1,100 feet from an elementary school.
WTI was owned by Jackson Stephens, who donated $200,000 to Bush #1 to help this project along.
There were problems and the project was not going to be approved during the Bush #1 administration.
When Bush's ratings tanked during his bid for re-election, Stephens donated $100,000 to Clinton #1 as well as extending a 2 million line of credit to the DLC when they were tapped out.
Bill Clinton won and with some serious monkey business (a Hillary crony) at the EPA, the permit was approved.
more down below....

President Clinton and Vice President Gore visited East Liverpool while campaigning for election in 1992; at that time, Mr. Clinton said that, if he were elected, WTI would never be allowed to operate. But the huge incinerator began burning hazardous waste in 1993.


Mr. Clinton has not returned to East Liverpool since he became President in 1992.

WTI failed part of its test burn in 1993, releasing four times more mercury than allowed. Children at the elementary school were tested for mercury in their urine prior to WTI operation and again six months after the facility started burning as part of a state health study. In the first test, 69 percent of the children tested negative; the follow-up test found that nearly the same number tested positive.

U.S. EPA's own risk assessment of the facility found at least 27 possible accident scenarios that could threaten the lives of the children in the nearby elementary school.

-snip
http://www.progressohio.org/page/community/post/jasonbourne/C3Z4



How The Clintons SOLD OUT OHIO: New Developments-Anthrax, Radioactive Waste, & Post Katrina Waste

Mon Feb 11th 2008, 02:37 PM
SOME OF YOU HERE MAY WONDER WHY I AM SUCH A VOCAL OPPONENT OF THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN. SEN CLINTON SPEAKS OF HER LIFETIME COMMITMENT TO HELPING CHILDREN, YET IN MY STATE OF OHIO, THEIR POLITICAL ASPIRATIONS TOOK THE FRONT SEAT OVER WHAT WAS BEST FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, CHILDREN AND AN IMPOVERISHED REGION. I HAVE POSTED THREADS BEFORE ON THE EAST LIVERPOOL TOXIC WASTE INCINERATOR, BUT A DIARIST ON DAILY KOS RECENTLY FOUND DISTURBING NEW FACTS ON THE INCINERATOR. FIRST, HERE IS THE WELL RESEARCHED KOS PIECE:

Ask Hillary About This Tonight. I Dare You.
by Zwoof

Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 03:40:46 AM PST

-snip

While I was writing the original piece on the history of this foul project, a new ruling from the Ohio EPA allowed this incinerator, located 1,100 feet from an elementary school, to accept even more hazardous waste (anthrax, radioactive waste, infectious medical waste and mixed hazardous waste from Hurricane Katrina) than the original permit that was shrouded in corruption and approved by the Clinton Administration

Clinton and Al Gore promised the residents of East Liverpool, Ohio that they would not allow this incinerator originally approved by Bush '41 to operate. However, a Clinton EPA appointee, recommended by his classmate Hillary Clinton, approved the permit.

This is a tangled tale of corporatism, broken promises and an environmental disaster waiting to happen.

-snip
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/mod%20mom

JACKSON STEPHENS-THE LINK FROM CLINTONS TO THE BUSHS. Research it yourself-I dare ya!

[not_too_L8]

71. Wow, this should be an original post...thanks

[stillcool]

13. the hatred expressed towards...

me is turning me off as a Democrat.

[SwampG8r]

31. i dont hate nobody

i disagree with a lot of em tho


obama wants us to hope
so
lets all hope the hillary people wake up?

[zulchzulu]

14. Some might call it "hatred", while most just call it for what it is...

I don't think people "hate" Hillary Clinton. They just find her to be a pathetic, desperate, conniving, double-talking, lying, flip-flopping turncoat who only cares about herself and her career over what most people in her situation would see as acting too negative and divisive to actually be classy.

Is it "hate"? No, it's seeing that someone really only cares about herself and will do ANYTHING for power.

If you can't see through her act, then you need to get out more.

[RestoreGore]

42. I guess you didn't read the op either

[death to the DLC]

18. Hillary is turning me off as a Democrat

She's the fucking dancing bear of old, stale politics.

[RestoreGore]

44. Perhaps... As Obama then gets the endorsement of the Rockefellers and Kennedys...

The "new" politics? See, this is what I don't get. Sure, the Clintons represent "old" politics, but what difference is there with Obama getting the same endorsements? Not exactly new to me.

[AX10]

61. True.

[40ozDonkey]

68. Endorsements mean they endorse Obama's position, not vice-versa. nt

[hfojvt]

78. given that Kennedy is a liberal standard bearer

I don't consider that endorsement to reflect badly on Obama. Quite the opposite. I don't get the whole new versus old paradigm, but I can definitely see a liberal vs. DLC battle with Kennedy being on the side of liberal and Clinton on the side of DLC. I'm happy to be with Kennedy.

[JKaiser]

19. I feel the same way... Thanks for the post

[RestoreGore]

33. You're welcome n/t

[Adelante]

20. You've posted a number of disrespectful posts this morning about Obama

I'm afraid you don't get to indulge this double standard. If you don't like nasty posts about Clinton, and neither do I, then set a better example. I don't care who you support or who you vote for. That's your business. But don't lecture people for doing what you yourself are doing.

[1776Forever]

26. I 2nd this! I saw the same thing you did. As for Hillary..........

I don't "hate" Hillary and Bill, but my opinion of them has changed over the years. After seeing what NAFTA, and the Communications Bill of 1996, and Hillary's votes for the Iraq War, the Kyle-Lieberman Bill, the cluster bomb issue, her support from people like Murdoch, and the nastiness of this campaign with kitchen-sink policy and the scotched earth context that has been used, I have had enough of them!

:nopity:

[RestoreGore]

27. What Bull. Asking why he voted to fund this war is not HATE

Learn the distinction.

[RaleighNCDUer]

55. "The war" is not a line item in the budget.

You can't "unfund" the war without doing serious damage to all the non-war military budget - things like hospitals, housing, pay, base maintenance, etc.

Learn what you're talking about, instead of merely spouting memes.

[cornermouse]

57. We better "unfund" the war.

After what I heard about the state of affairs in Iraq and Afghanistan, the sooner the better.

If we "unfund" the war, we should be able to create jobs elsewhere; preferably the private sector.

[RaleighNCDUer]

69. The only way to unfund the war without unfunding the general military

budget would be to introduce a bill that requires the military to create a secondary budget under which all war expenses would be gathered - being careful not to include in that hospitilizations for war wounded, dependent expenses for deployed troops, etc., and THEN to vote no money to that sub-budget. Without a veto-proof majority, such a bill will never pass. Therefore, to keep money supporting supplying the troops (rations, equipment, armor) and their dependents at home (housing & food allotments), and taking care of the wounded, paying pensions, ALL military expenses, they MUST support the funding of the war. It's all one and the same.

At the end of Vietnam, Congress voted to unfund the war by exactly that method - made sure that it had a separate budget from the general military, then cut that budget. Of course, at that time we were down to about 20,000 troops in all of Vietnam, and were pulling them out on a daily basis, so it really was just a symbolic gesture anyway.

To reiterate - there is no separate line item for combat operations in Iraq.

Personally, I would like to see us shut down about 700 of the 780 foreign bases we have - THAT would save us billions annually. And I say that despite having grown up on those bases (the European ones, anyway).

[Hugabear]

28. There seems to be an awful lot of that going around

Seems to be an awful lot of Hillary supporters saying that we should all lay off Hillary, while continuing to take potshots at Obama.

[RestoreGore]

32. I am not a "Hillary" supporter

God, some of you really are in the rut.

[Alexander]

85. Ah. So because you say it, it must be true.

:eyes:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. Dignified + political campaign is an oxymoron because politicians are involved in them.

Not a particularly dignified lot except when posing as honest people.

[RestoreGore]

41. So True.

[TwilightGardener]

23. I find it so strange that some people automatically gravitate toward

the Clintons out of sympathy. They really have profited from their victim/martyr status, haven't they? To some Dems, you just aren't allowed to criticize them personally, or rightfully dislike or distrust them, because someone will always point to their historic "persecution" as a reason to lay off--maybe even as a reason to support them. It's bizarre. They EARNED some of their negative attributes. Not all, but some.

[midnight]

29. This is how I feel too. There are serious issues that need to

be addressed. Another poster let us know that Obama is adressing the banking industry. Thankfully it is not about his church. But still it concerns me. Read why:"If we can extend a hand to banks on Wall Street, we can extend a hand to Americans who are struggling," he said. Not sure this makes sense to me. Give stimulus to the people directly. Cut the taxes to the wealthy. Provide real money for education. Don't bail out the banks.


I also do not support Obama at this time. I have questions about his associations, his policies on war, Al Qaeda, increasing the military, all of their climate change platforms which are not good enough, his healthcare plan which does leave many out, and his penchant for "speechifying" over policy. However, even though I would debate those questions and reservations about him passionately I don't hate him and would not condone the hateful and downright obsessive behavior at breaking him down as I am seeing regarding Hillary Clinton.

[RestoreGore]

37. Wow, that sure sounds "status quo" to me...

Well, Jay Rockefeller spoke for Obama in West Virginia recently, and to me that is about as status quo new world order as you get... which is why I question his words regarding "change." Unfortunately, you aren't allowed to do that on these forums without being caled "disrespectful" or "hateful." It's "hateful" to question him on anything. What does that remind you of?

[cornermouse]

58. You forgot "freeper" and "troll"

They accuse people of that as well.

[jonestonesusa]

46. I'm always happy for dialogue on this...

and I'll ask for that now. I am trying to clear my mind to support Hillary Clinton in the GE if she is nominated, though she's behind in delegates and caucus/primary wins right now.

There's a lot of anger among supporters of both sides, but no one gives credit to the valid points on each side. I've been reading the Bernstein biography of HRC, and clearly the Clinton administration has faced more media hostility than most public figures; I agree with HRC that the campaign has faced a right wing attack machine. Also on the sexism issue - the intelligence and independence of HRC is something that conservatives have unfairly questioned. I do think that Democrats should defend their own more publicly and effectively for all of this out of bounds and sexist criticism; I applaud moveon.org, dailykos, du, etc. for pioneering a well-funded, grass roots, and righteous kind of left response.

On the other hand, part of what set that in motion was a penchant for secrecy to protect records pertaining to Rose Law Firm, Bill Clinton's womanizing, etc. I also do not think that the Clintons successfully make enough friends with Democrats due to a management style that sometimes borders on a bunker psychology, and by complimenting McCain, joining forces with George Bush I on the Katrina recovery, etc. Also, for me as an African American voter, I am impatient with the way that the Clintons play both sides of the fence - Jesse Jackson was a spiritual adviser in the Clinton administration, and Maggie Williams was prominent on the White House staff. But this campaign has seriously alienated me over the Ferraro issue, the Wright issue, and numerous other sly ways that the HRC campaign has tried to portray African American primary votes as not legitimate. African Americans are a core constituency of the Democratic party, and these tactics are not going to help the turnout of this core constituency in the fall if Clinton is the nominee.

That being said, I wonder what you and the first poster mean by Obama's "associations" - put what you mean on the table so it can be discussed. I also challenge the idea of "speechifying over policy" - he has been involved significantly in policy issues in the Illinois legislature and in Washington. I have limited time here so I won't go over details myself, but take a look at his web site if you're interested in his policy accomplishments and wanting to make a fair comparison. I am extremely suspicious about the argument (coming verbatim from the MSM and HRC's campaigns) that all he does is make speeches, as if Clinton isn't making speeches, as if speeches aren't a routine part of political discourse. He seems more effective at galvanizing his audience than Clinton.

Why are Democrats these days so suspicious of charisma? Haven't we had enough of the Liebermans, the Dukakises, the Mondales at this point?

[stray cat]

35. Hillary and Bill are turning me off

[flpoljunkie]

39. Their "in it to win it" at all costs is what's disturbing to many Democrats.

[murbley40]

43. I'll tell you who is turning me off.....

HOWARD DEAN!

[Beacool]

73. Ditto!!!

The Democratic party has imploded thanks to Dean and the others who came up with these moronic rules. If we had ran the party like the Republicans do, we would already have a nominee and we would have avoided all this bitterness. Leave it to our party to fuck things up as usual!!!!!!!

[murbley40]

36. Bravo

[KansasVoter]

38. When Hillary Mocked ME I lost all respect for her.

[elana i am]

47. let me 'splain...

not everyone who posts on this board was a democrat when the clintons were in office. not everyone was a political junkie then. not everyone that posts here was even an adult when they were in office. when the clintons were in office i was in high school and college, in my own little world. all i knew of the clintons was from the lewinsky scandal i saw on tv and from the lectures my mother gave me about never letting a man do to me what bill did to hillary. i feel no loyalty toward them just because they are dems (in name only). some of us never have been and never were enamored of the clintons. the clintons i knew then were the icky, scandalous ones who in the present continue to live up to my past impression of them.

[Godhumor]

49. I'm still proud to be a part of this party

Nothing said on DU will change that, ever. The blind hatred on both sides of the fence in this primary has dampened my enthusiasm for GD-P, however.

[burythehatchet]

50. Funny, I'm wondering whether I should call my self a Democrat when people like

the Clintoons are leading the party (on a path towards irrelevance)

[cooolandrew]

51. The military increase is first a decrease in contractors transferring to the troops,with net revenue

left over.

[cooolandrew]

53. Barack has also been wrongly lablled responsible for MI and FL he has zero influence on state policy

[cooolandrew]

54. Here is a very detailed speech on Obama's foreign policy..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYBaiXQoI5Q

[Beacool]

52. Hear, hear!!

I sometimes read the hateful comments written about Hillary and wonder if they are talking about the same person that I have come to respect and admire over the years. There's such a dissonance between the vitriol spewed on the blogs, the MSM and the real person that it's as if they were talking about two separate people.

The only thing that it has so far achieved is making many of us resent tremendously what their doing to her and make us work even harder to help her prevail.

On the other hand, I don't "hate" Obama. I do though consider him to be a slick operator who had one goal in mind since he stepped into the state senate: the presidency. Ergo, his kissing up to the powerful in the party, his efforts not to make too many waves because making waves engenders enmity (that's why the many present votes in the state senate and no votes in the US senate on certain issues). His "biographies" where some of the people portrayed are composites and not actual individuals, his telling Jones that he should be the one to run for the US senate to his now candidacy after being in the senate for barely two years. I see in him a panderer, the typical ass kisser who cozies up to the boss and gets the promotion without deserving it. In other words, all fluff and no substance. That's why so many Hillary supporters are saying that they would rather vote for McCain, experience does count for something.

[AX10]

62. kick

[jonestonesusa]

84. So you're accusing others of Hillary hate

and you're describing Obama as a "typical ass kisser who cozies up to the boss," etc.? Are you aware that it is a common literary technique to have composite characters in an autobiography? Have you read any of his books, or any of the reviews about his books?

You talk about vitrol being spewed - it would be great to have a dialogue about issues of substance, so let's have it. I challenge you to do so. And vote how you want to, based on your values - if it's McCain, so be it. Meanwhile, I'm hear to talk seriously about issues, and it would be great to hear what you think about them, since I value thoughtful dissent from my own ideas.

[AX10]

59. What I find disturbing is how much the left hates her.

They hate her just as much as the right.
If McCain wins, I can live with that. Contrary to the views on these left wing blogs, he is no an extremist like Bush.
I have no desire to vote for Obama. No wonder half the people don't vote.

[cornermouse]

65. Have you listened to him lately?

He has converted to the far and nutty extremist right.

[mdmc]

60. I've been turned off for years

What can be done?

[blm]

63. Read the Vanity Fair article from a few months back - TeamClinton undermined Gore's campaign

THAT level of selfishness in 2000 and throughout the next 7 years of protecting Bush was all about Hillary2008.

And YOU think we should find something GOOD in their actions?

[Bonobo]

64. Stop looking at the hatred and start looking at the hope. NT

[Beacool]

74. He doesn't inspire me at all.

I see right through him and his empty platitudes. To me, he sounds like a demagogue.

[stratomagi]

77. Funny

I was going to say the same thing about Hillary.

[Bonobo]

79. Honestly? You would probably have said so of FDR, kennedy and MLK too.

[mkultra]

66. no objectivity

The Hillary crowd has always been smug and attack oriented. This has backfired on them and on her. What your seeing is the blowback.

[loyalsister]

67. I could almost agree

but am confused by the anger. The use of the word "despicible" and calling out only one side seems to contradict a more productive message.

[LSK]

72. what Obama associations ?

[redqueen]

75. "not just "feel good" speeches "

Didn't take long for you to tip your hand.

Sorry but if you're trying to peddle the "Obama's nothing but speches!" bullshit, you might want to seek a more gullible audience.

:puke:

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ysabel]

81. hillary's campaign is a like a tabloid nightmare...

[KaptBunnyPants]

82. The only way for Hillary to win is if superdelegates reverse the primary winner.

The fact that she is trying to get that to happen makes her a villain. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but it's not the fault of people who are adult enough to realize it and principled enough to be outraged by it.

[gal]

83. I agree

I agree, but if they do that then aren't they going agnist the "every vote counts" she is preaching so heavy?