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Hillary is not only tearing Dems apart, she's also shooting herself in the foot (no pun intended)

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 11:26 AM
Original message
Hillary is not only tearing Dems apart, she's also shooting herself in the foot (no pun intended)
Hillary's top donors threaten Pelosi: Endorse Hillary's view that elected delegates can abandon Obama or we're pulling our money from the party.

That's not going over well!

UPDATE: ABC News' Political Director David Chalian reports that a Democratic operative unaffiliated with either campaign and familiar with the reaction to the letter among Members of Congress says, "Members of Congress - who are superdelegates - make up the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee" or DCCC from which the donors seemed to be threatening to withhold funds.

"Threatening the DCCC is equal to threatening the superdelegates Sen. Hillary Clinton's trying to court. The Clinton donor letter will just push undeclared superdelegates in Congress leaning toward Obama to endorse him sooner. It also reinforces the narrative that she'll destroy the party to win."

link


Pelosi isn't backing down:

"Speaker Pelosi is confident that superdelegates will choose between Senators Clinton or Obama -- our two strong candidates -- before the convention in August. That choice will be based on many considerations, including respecting the decisions of millions of Americans who have voted in primaries and participated in caucuses. The Speaker believes it would do great harm to the Democratic Party if superdelegates are perceived to overturn the will of the voters. This has been her position throughout this primary season, regardless of who was ahead at any particular point in delegates or votes."


Hillary Tells Fox She’s Still In It To Win It

by Aaron Bruns

Asked about her options for getting those votes counted, the New York Senator raised the specter of a convention battle — a scenario few Democrats can be excited about. “You can always go to the convention. That’s what credential fights are for,” she said. “Lets have the Democratic party go on record against seating the Michigan and Florida delegations three months before the general election? I don’t think that will happen. I think they will be seated. So that’s where we’re headed if we don’t get this worked out.”

Senator Clinton also addressed two controversies that have hurt both candidates in recent days — her exaggerated account of a trip to Bosnia in 1996, and Sen Obama’s problem with his pastor, Rev Jeremiah Wright.

On the Bosnia tale, Clinton was anxious to move on. “I’m a human being. I made a mistake and owned up to it. But that’s not what people talk to me about,” she said. “People want to talk about the economy and health care and they want to know what are you going to do to fix our country and get it back on track, and help my family and me. And that’s what I’m really engaged in. Because, you know, when you’ve been on a campaign for 14 months, you know, there’s all other kinds of distractions, but at the end of the day this is like a hiring decision. Who will people hire to get this country moving in the direction it should move in?”

And Senator Clinton repeated earlier assertions that she would have left the church has she heard anti-American statements like those uttered by Rev Wright coming out of the mouth of her own pastor “I was asked very point blank yesterday what I would have done had I been in a position where someone was making those kinds of comments, and I said I would have left,” she said. “It’s a very personal decision. You know, you don’t get to pick your family, but you do get to pick the church or synagogue you attend. And I said that I would have left, and that’s how I feel about it.”

more

(emphasis added)

The people of the country would like to move in the opposite direction of lying!

A "credential fights," that too is not going over well!

Hillary Super-Delegates In Washington State Wavering

By Eric Kleefeld - March 27, 2008, 9:13AM

Some cracks are starting to show in the dedication of Hillary Clinton super-delegates in Washington State, with some fearing that the drawn-out contest would damage the party for the general election.

"I don't think that people want a divisive, explosive convention," said King County Executive Ron Sims, a super-delegate supporting Hillary. "It will radiate defeat."

Another Hillary supporter, Sen. Maria Cantwell, declared earlier this week that "I definitely don’t want the super-delegates to be the deciding factor," and that the party should eventually come together around the candidate who has won the most delegates and most states.


Florida and MI:

Actual Popular Vote Total
Obama 13,355,239 (+717,276)
Hillary 12,637,963

FL
Obama 576,214
Hillary 870,986
Total votes 1,447,200

Popular Vote (w/FL)
Obama 13,931,453 (+422,504)
Hillary 13,508,949


MI
Clinton 328,151
Uncommitted 237,762

Popular Vote (w/FL and MI)
Obama 13,931,453 (+94,195)
Clinton 13,837,258

Let's say Obama got the uncommitted MI votes

Popular Vote (w/FL and MI)
Obama 14,169,215 (+331,957)
Clinton 13,837,258

In these scenarios Obama is clearly ahead, even with no MI votes going to him.

What would a revote mean? Hillary would not get more than 58% of the MI and 60% of the FL vote as indicated above. In fact, she stands to lose ground.

Clinton tactics turn off some superdelegates

Posted: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 5:55 PM by Domenico Montanaro

From NBC/NJ's Matthew E. Berger

<...>

The Democratic Party insiders say they believe Clinton's direct attacks against Sen. Barack Obama in recent days are hurting the party and its chances in November, and also say it is showing a calculated, desperate-to-win side of Clinton that they dislike.

"In looking at the manner in which the candidates are campaigning, I think it would be best they focused their attention on the presumptive nominee and showed our party which one is better in campaigning against McCain," said Garry Shay, a California superdelegate, who announced his support for Clinton.

Unlike some in the party, these superdelegates said they do not believe Clinton should drop out of the race. They said they are committed to the democratic process, and want to allow the states still remaining to cast their ballots. But they acknowledged Obama is the likely nominee and suggested the personal attacks were only hurting the party and its viability.

<...>

Others said they were frustrated by recent reports that Clinton embellished her description of landing in Bosnia as First Lady, and said it suggested she would do anything to win. "I don't remember what movie I saw two weeks ago; I don't necessarily remember what I had for dinner last night," one superdelegate said. "But I would remember having to duck and run from sniper fire."

The final straw, though, were Clinton's comments Tuesday, when she said the Rev. Jeremiah Wright "would not have been my pastor." Several superdelegates saw it as a direct, personal attack on Obama.

"I think it's very dangerous for any candidate to constantly thrum on what they perceive as sensational criticisms of their opponent," said Debra Kozikowski, an uncommitted superdelegate from Massachusetts. "I would be more likely to respond positively to discussions of issues that effect Americans versus what might be perceived as character flaws."

link



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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. She is also capping her own knees, burning her own barn, swifting her own boat and
digging her own grave ------ I just wish she would hurry up with it.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. You have to admit
the flameout is going to be spectacular.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. And the books from all of the sychophants blaming each other hillarious
I wonder if they realise that they need to start getting their book deals settled now if they are going to get their books out by the November election. After that the market value will decline significantly.
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HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. One problem...
with a huge spike in demand for popcorn, will ethanol prices soar?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. There was a blurb about Tonya Harding
on tv today in reference to a new show, "The World's Dumbest Criminals"..I kid you not. Danny Bonaduce was also mentioned.

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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. RE: "Swifting her own boat...."
ROFL

:rofl:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. Pelosi's hecklers gave $24 million

Pelosi's hecklers gave $24 million

The Center for Responsive Politics has the details:

The 20 Democratic bigwigs who wrote to Nancy Pelosi re: superdelegates yesterday have contributed nearly $24 million to Democratic candidates and committees over the last 10 years, the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics has calculated. They've given Hillary Clinton's Senate and presidential campaigns about $315,000, or nearly $554,000, if you include contributions to her leadership PAC. By comparison, Barack Obama has collected $34,700 from them for his Senate and presidential campaigns, plus $17,500 to his leadership PAC. And there's no telling how much this group has helped raise for Democrats over the years.

And my colleague Patrick O'Connor reports that the speaker isn't

more


No doubt, they are super important. Context: Obama raised more than twice that amount in February.

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wileedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Apparently its getting more expensive
to buy a country these days.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Maybe the country is just not quite...
as "for sale" these days. :)
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. "Pelosi's hecklers gave $24 million"
OOOOOOOH - $24 million! It'll take Obama almost 3WEEKS to replace that! Ouch - not.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. She, more than Obama, needed to take a short break
somewhere like the Virgin Islands to be able to come back and look with fresh eyes at what she has been doing. The Clintons wanted the Presidency to enhance their legacy - but the method in which they have fought for it is diminishing them faster among Democrats that 15 years of RW attacks did. It is showing a dark side to them that many of argued didn't exist for years.
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. well said
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. Yes, well said!
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. K & R
:thumbsup:
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NavyDavy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. no whats ripping the party apart is all the in fighting period.....we
have so many concern trolls coming here throwing out flamebait and each and ever time the same people fall for it......so blame HRC or BO but they aren't the ones threatening to not vote for a Dem if they aren't nominated....its their followers, period
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. "we're pulling our money from the party" No, blame Hillary and her surrogates divisive BS! n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. Hillary Campaign: We Didn't Know What Was In Donors' Letter To Pelosi
Edited on Thu Mar-27-08 01:48 PM by ProSense

Hillary Campaign: We Didn't Know What Was In Donors' Letter To Pelosi

By Greg Sargent - March 27, 2008, 2:06PM

That letter to Nancy Pelosi from 20 Hillary fundraisers contained a veiled threat: Change your public posture on the role of the super-dels or you might see our money stop flowing into DCCC coffers.

The question now is: Did Hillary or any of her campaign officials participate in the writing of the letter or sign off on its content? Did she or the campaign approve a message tacitly threatening to dial back a commitment to building a lasting Democratic majority?

The Hillary campaign -- and one fundraiser who signed the letter -- say that the answer is an emphatic No.

"We got a heads up that it was being sent, and that was it," Hillary spokesperson Phil Singer said on a conference call with reporters moments ago. He also said: "We didn't know what was in it. Our supporters let us know that they were sending something."

Separately, one of the signatories of the letter -- someone I trust -- tells me that the letter was not written in consultation with the campaign. You all will make of this what you will, but that's what the person said.






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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. More
Hillary Campaign Didn't Disavow Donor Letter To Pelosi

Via the link above:

Sam Stein

Clinton Campaign Stands By Harsh Letter To Pelosi

March 27, 2008 02:21 PM

Aides to Sen. Hillary Clinton said on Thursday that they knew key fundraisers for her campaign were sending a letter to Nancy Pelosi, castigating the Speaker over her position on superdelegates and threatening, vaguely, to withhold campaign donations.

And while they did not go so far as to say they approved of the letter's content -- "we didn't know what was in it," said spokesman Phil Singer -- they did argue that the "letter speaks for itself."

"There is clearly a broad feeling among many Democrats and many people who are active in the party," said Singer, "that the role of superdelegates is to exercise independent judgment and make a decision that is best for the party and best for the country."

<...>

Asked whether the Clinton campaign thought it would be appropriate for party financiers to threaten to withhold funds should Pelosi not change her stance, aides to the New York Democrat restated their commitment to helping build a larger Democratic congressional majority.

"As someone who is a former executive director of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, who spent a lot of years working in the House, who has both friends and family working in the House, I feel, as do most of the people I know, absolutely committed to helping elect Democrats to the House in 2008," said Clinton's communications director, Howard Wolfson. "I believe strongly in Nancy Pelosi's leadership. Obviously, some of our donors had an issue that they wanted to put into writing... But Senator Clinton and Bill Clinton will not take a backseat to anyone when it comes to helping Democrats or helping to fund the party committees. And the people here at every level are absolutely committed to large democratic majorities in 2008 and doing everything we can to helping achieve those large majorities."

more




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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. notice please
the last paragraph
the clinton staff is floating a trial balloon for their fundraising skills
like anyone would give them anything at this point
what influence have they left to peddle anyway?
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
14. GOOD. Perhaps the DLC can ask for a seat at the Repubican table.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. Oh oh! Halperin is having a meltdown
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
16. Deficits
Edited on Thu Mar-27-08 07:51 PM by ProSense
Poll:

Poll: Obama Up 15 Points In North Carolina

By Eric Kleefeld - March 27, 2008, 6:04PM

A new InsiderAdvantage poll of North Carolina gives Barack Obama a sizable lead here of 49%-34% over Hillary Clinton for the May 6 primary — a bad sign for Hillary, since she would basically need to run the table in the remaining contests in order to seriously narrow Obama's advantage in pledged delegates.

From the internals: Obama leads 79%-16% among black voters, while Hillary is ahead 47%-33% among whites.


Credibility:

UPDATEDX4: Profile of the SuperDonors who tried to intimidate Pelosi
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
17. Pelosi & Co. better not be afraid of these mafia tactics!
Who the hell does Hillary think she is??

Trying to extort the Democratic party??

REPREHENSIBLE!
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BringBigDogBack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
21. loving it.
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moonbrat Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
25. How to beat the Republicans - Operation Chaos
I have something vital to post about the Republican strategy to self-destruct the Democratic party!


As many of you probably know, the Republicans plan of attack is called "Operation Chaos". The goal is to get the Democratic Party infighting so we self-destruct, leaving the Republicans to take the general election.


IF YOU POST ANYTHING ANTI-CLINTON or ANTI-OBAMA then you are doing exactly what the Republicans want!

If you post anything anti-Democratic party candidate then you are helping PROJECT CHAOS!

We must ALL fight TOGETHER to defeat the Republican machine. OPERATION CHAOS is their ONLY HOPE and they are infiltrating DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND and many other boards POSING as Democratic supporters of both candidates in order to BASH the OTHER candidate! All they want to do is to turn people off to either candidate and their job is done!

They are SUCCEEDING and you must not help them!

Keep focused on the message of UNITY. Don't flame any anti-Dem candidate threads. PROMOTE UNITY. PROMOTE BEATING THE REPUBLICANS FIRST AND FOREMOST!

FOR AMERICA!!

http://stix1972.typepad.com/st.....cha-1.html

Here is but one website which is crowing about the success of OPERATION CHAOS!

UNITE AGAINST THE REPUBLICANS!!!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
26. It's not me,
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
27. Hillary hypes McCain, insults Obama supporters

Report: Hillary Won't Quit Race

By Greg Sargent - March 28, 2008, 11:00AM
Time magazine has an interesting look at precisely what Hillary is thinking right now, as she ponders the very difficult decision as to whether to continue the race in the face of very daunting odds:

Clinton is well aware of the long odds she faces in the battle against Barack Obama for delegates. She knows that as the Democratic National Convention gets closer, the increasingly bitter back and forth between the two campaigns hurts Obama's chances of winning a general election and reinforces the image of the Clintons as a power-hungry couple who will do anything to win, even if they damage the Democratic Party.

But for the Clintons, quitting isn't an option...When Clinton closes her eyes, she sees John McCain triumphing in November against Obama in a contest she believes she would win. Like all competitive candidates, Clinton is certain she would be a better leader than her rivals, and she feels an obligation to her supporters to fight on.

Clinton believes Obama's support is largely a mirage -- a bunch of true believers whose passion might help him cinch the nomination, but that may prove an insufficient bedrock for winning a general election when the spell might be broken by tough questions about national-security credentials, economic-policy plans and rich experience. She can't stop from shaking her head in disbelief when longtime friends who are elected officials inform her that they are going to endorse Obama and were chiefly convinced by their children's enthusiasm for his candidacy...

According to those close to her, she is hoping that as spring becomes summer, the potential for finding another skeleton or two in Obama's closet will prove him ultimately unelectable in the fall...

Said a confidant who has talked to her regularly throughout the campaign: "This woman never quits. Neither she nor her husband." So don't expect this race to end anytime soon.


In other words, "saddle up."

(emphasis added)

:wtf:

:wtf:

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
28. Clinton’s Fund-Raising Appeal: We Aren’t Going to Step Aside
March 28, 2008, 3:33 pm

Clinton’s Fund-Raising Appeal: We Aren’t Going to Step Aside

By Kate Phillips

If Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s newest fund-raising e-mail isn’t a response to some calls for her to quit the Democratic presidential primary, we’re not sure what would be.

Dropped into our mailbox just now is this appeal from her:

Have you noticed a pattern?

Every time our campaign demonstrates its strength and resilience, people start to suggest we should end our pursuit of the Democratic nomination.

Those anxious to force us to the sidelines aren’t doing it because they think we’re going to lose the upcoming primaries. The fact is, they’re reading the same polls we are, and they know we are in a position to win.

In three days, we’re facing a critical March filing deadline — another chance to show the strength of our campaign.

Let’s take these three days to make something absolutely clear: we aren’t going to simply step aside. You and I are going to keep fighting for what we believe in, and together, we’re going to win.

In the e-mail message, she urges supporters to help her raise $3 million by the end of the month, the required filing deadline for financial reports referred to above. While she had a strong showing in fund-raising last month, her rival Senator Barack Obama continued to outpace her by millions of dollars.


Strength, huh?


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