Is It Possible That Party Infighting Is GOOD For Our Democratic Party?

[Danzo]

Some in the AAR host community believe that it actually MAY be good for our party. Thom Hartman believes that it better prepares us in our fight against the right wing noise machine in the general election. Mike Pappantonio also says that if Democrat want to win back the White House, they need to stop playing nice and start fighting dirty.

I've seen a lot of people on this site and elsewhere in cyberspace act as though it's a FACT that party infighting among Democrats is bad for the party. But I agree with Thom Hartman and Mike Pappantonio that it may STRENGTHEN the Democratic party.

Is there any empirical evidence to support the premise that party infighting is making the Democrats statistically less likely to win in November?

[jody]

1. I don't know about the Dem Party but it certainly helps the Repug Party. n/t

[movonne]

2. And it is not doing much for my blood pressure...

[Danzo]

3. Well...

...if you're saying that it helps the Repugs be more likely to win in November, can you provide any empirical evidence to back that up?

[jody]

6. I offered my opinion and you certainly have a different one. Have a nice day. n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

7. Well--can you imagine any possible way

McCain might be able to make use of a clip of Hillary saying, in effect, that he's more qualified to be President than Obama?

Hint: Go have a look at McCain's website, where he's already running a clip of Bill praising him.

[Danzo]

29. The Clintons Are Entitled To Express Their Opinions...

and if Obama doesn't like it, he and his supporters needs to stop whining and REFUTE what the Clintons say.

[Clovis Sangrail]

4. emperical evidence will be in November

right now all we can do is look at polls before the Dem infighting became so bitter.
Back in January I think both candidate were handily beating McCain in polls.
Now I don't think either is.

[Jackpine Radical]

5. Short answer: No.

That is not possible.

Next question.

[Danzo]

30. Thom Hartman's Opinion > Your Opinion

[ColbertWatcher]

8. I wouldn't call it "infighting"...

...what we democrats are doing is democracy.

We are discussing who we want to be our candidate.

The GOP on the other hand...

they had a bunch of candidates, but they were all white males (not really representative of America in the 21st century)

when they realized all their candidates were also of one mind (hyper-Christian, and that includes Ronpaul) someone woke Alan Keyes up

then the GOP finally picked one of their men to be their candidate, he promises not to change a thing from the current administration.

[islandmkl]

9. we are OK, a little bloodied, but this fall we will ALL look forward to battling McLame...

as long as they keep letting him speak in public, we'll be just fine...

good year for the Democrats to figure out where they want their party headed...into the future, or back to 1997...

[msallied]

10. Well, one must look at history.

If I recall, there was a good bit of infighting amongst Dems in 1984 and they lost their asses against Reagan. Also, given that the Republican strategy has always been divide and conquer, it doesn't seem to correlate with Democratic wins.

We'll never be able to completely unite the party. Republicans too will always have to have battle with their fringe elements and there will always be Democrats who don't think the party at large is liberal enough or that it's already "too" liberal, etc. It won't be perfect. But what isn't good is splintering the party from within. In 1948, Truman won in spite of a heavily divided Democratic party, but only just barely, and he wasn't terribly popular and the country had 8 years of Republican rule after that. It was only decades down the road that he was hailed as one of the "greats."

[depakid]

17. What does 1948 have to do with the election in 1952?

where the major issue was the Korean war and the Republican candidate was the Supreme Allied Commander of WW II who ran on a slogan of: I will go to Korea?

Curiously, Stevenson (the Dem candidate in 52) was a one term governor of Illinois at the time....

[msallied]

21. Yes, the times and the elections are different

I might have stretched it when I said that the following 8 years were affected by 1948, but given Truman's dismal approval ratings when he left office, it certainly didn't help the Democrats. The original point being, though, that the infighting amongst Dems in '48 certainly didn't help matters and it barely got Truman elected.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. And you can add the Republicans to that record

1996 they were divided until the convention, they lost

And 1976 the same story.

It tends to be damaging

My true fear, as I have said it before is a brokered convention

[Danzo]

32. Some Say....

That Jimmy Carter had a good chance to win, but Reagan clinched it with his staged "hostage saving" stunt. In any case, that may have been a bigger factor in Carter's loss to Reagan than any party infighting was.

[depakid]

11. It also airs out all the dirty laundry before the late summer and fall

when the nominee typically gets ambushed by it.

[ColbertWatcher]

12. Mods please delete

[mmonk]

13. The owners and the ignored were going to do battle

sooner or later.

[Larkspur]

14. It's actually a fight for the SOUL of the Dem Party or "Crashing the Gates"

Its corporate vs progressive Dems in this primary battle. Hillary represents the DLC pro-corporate wing and Obama, while he too has corporate support, is largely supported by the grassroots progressive movement.

[HooptieWagon]

23. I agree, the demise of the DLC

may prove to be as good, if not better, than defeating the repigs in Nov. Hillary seems to be doing a fine job of that. Granted, her endorsement of McCain and gutter tactics and lies against Obama certainly won't help the Dems in the fall - but as long as she's the anchor that's dragging the DLC beneath the waves, I say let her hang around.

[Danzo]

33. "while he too has corporate support"

That's a big understatement. He has VERY high ratings from pro-corporate interest groups. Go to VoteSmart.com and see for yourself.

[JimboDem]

15. Practice Run For The General Election.

They're finding their cajones (and huevos). Look out Pepuglicans. I only
hope they save some enmity for the likes of the MSM and Faux.


:dem:

[JuniperLea]

16. Well said!!!

I'll be pondering this thought for a while. Thanks!

[TheDoorbellRang]

18. Plenty of evidence if it goes to convention we could be screwed

It's never worked out well when the battle goes to the convention. Here's a little history of two of those battles from cnn:

But a look back shows that primary animosity has carried over into the general election before.

In 1980, the nomination fight between Jimmy Carter and Ted Kennedy lasted all the way to the convention. The result was a drop in the number of liberals who voted in the fall.

In 1992, Pat Buchanan staged a conservative challenge to George H.W. Bush that left many of his followers angry at the incumbent. The result was a drop in the number of conservatives who came out to vote in the general election.

Both Carter and Bush lost those elections.

There was also a bitterly fought battle at the convention when Adlai Stephenson finally got the nomination. Remember President Stephenson? Neither do I.

For the sake of the dem's success in the fall, this has got to be over soon -- and the sooner the better.

[Demeter]

19. It Defines and Separates the DNC and the DLC

and that is a good thing.

[Beregond2]

20. Fighting...

Well, there's this: it is certainly revealing where people really stand and what their true character is.

[crankychatter]

22. The National Polls are a good indicator

Obama beat McCain roundly in every poll until Clinton went berzerker.

Now he's barely leading and she STILL LOSES.

any questions?

[Danzo]

34. Yeah, I Have One...

...do you seriously think that if Hillary didn't go negative on Obama, the RNC wouldn't have done so in the general election?

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

24. It is very hard on us political junkies, but do the Idol watchers feel the same?

These folks need a sledge hammer to the head to get the point thru. Who out numbers who?
I'd say the Idol watchers do.
We are surrounded by Assholes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Yes, electoral history

statistically the party that takes the longer to designate a candidate, has a problem taking the WH.

I might add, that we are crossing a line from being helpful to actually hurting when you have partisans for BOTH candidates state that they will not vote, or vote for McCain if the other is the final candidate

That is when you cross into danger territory.

[cooolandrew]

27. We can fight tough but there is no need to go down to their level...

Hartmann is inconsistent on this one. He once said months ago if you go down to their level to win you have no vitory at all as you have lost what it is that made the party what it is. Yes, we can fight tough but we can also do it with integrity, really.

[RaleighNCDUer]

28. If it brings about the demise of the DLC

I say "bring it on".

[u2spirit]

31. The only thing good that will result from it

is if this bitter pill we are swallowing causes he party to pass the bowel movement that is the DLC

[HughMoran]

35. I've been trying to see the good in this situation

I certainly hope we can make lemonade from the current sour environment!

[Joe the Revelator]

36. Quite simply, no, its not.