BREAKING - AP: Obama would have LEFT if Wright stayed

[Skip Intro]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/ap_on_el_pr/obama_wright


WASHINGTON - White House hopeful Barack Obama suggests he would have left his Chicago church had his longtime pastor, whose fiery anti-American comments about U.S. foreign policy and race relations threatened Obama's campaign, not stepped down.


"Had the reverend not retired, and had he not acknowledged that what he had said had deeply offended people and were inappropriate and mischaracterized what I believe is the greatness of this country, for all its flaws, then I wouldn't have felt comfortable staying at the church," Obama said Thursday during a taping of the ABC talk show, "The View." The interview will be broadcast Friday.

In his sermons over the years, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright has railed against the United States and accused it of bringing on the Sept. 11 attacks by spreading terrorism. He also has said the government invented AIDS to destroy "people of color" and has shouted "God damn America" for its treatment of minorities.
-------------------------------------

When Hillary said she'd have walked out, she was chastized here big time. Now Obama has said the same. It only took him twenty years.

I'm curious what all the Obama-supporters who damned Hillary for her comments now think that the chosen one has echoed those remarks.

And how does this fit in with his speech last week saying he could no more disown his preacher than his white grandmother. Hey grandma, make room under that bus for the good reverend.

[StevieM]

1. Obama does nothing but lie, day and night. He attended that church, by choice, for 20 years (eom)

[Middle finga]

2. So!!!

[Skip Intro]

So did he have some epiphany after twenty years? Or is he just another politician in shiny new paper

[emilyg]

32. !!!!

[Tellurian]

42. He must have decided Wright is not advantageous to his career anymore..

It took a presidential primary to jog his conscience. What about his children's exposure to the HATEFUL comments made by Wright? How is he going to fix that? BAD JUDGMENT! All the way around. Obama is a disgrace to the nomination process and to our country!

[HCE SuiGeneris]

53. HATEFUL -- that really IS dramatic!!!11!!! As is BAD JUDGMENT!

I'm converted. Fuck Barack. Go Hillary!11!!1!

[RBInMaine]

105. And did Hilly stand by her man Billy to help her career even though he adulterized repeatedly?

[niceypoo]

141. Is, 'Hillary,' the only defense Obama supporters can ever come up with for Obama??

And they wonder why he is seen as an empty suit.

[PBS Poll-435]

163. At least she can keep a vow and promise.

[otohara]

123. Taking Shots From Imaginary Bullets In Bosnia

how's that working out?

[niceypoo]

142. Has nothing to do with the subject at hand...

Your avoiding the issue by trying to change the subject

[SammyWinstonJack]

135. I vote "just another politician in shiny new paper." Oh and a liar too.

[Maat]

Well-said.

Come on - NO ONE would tell me to completely reject my pastor and leave my church. Those that keep this ridiculousness going - the attack on Rev. Wright - have NO credibility with me, particularly in light of my many years of research on the very dangerous religious right, with whom Hillary has an intimate association (a much more serious matter than Rev. Wright's talks).

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

[HCE SuiGeneris]

4. Where does he find time to eat and sleep amidst all that lying?

Sounds grueling.

[Middle finga]

27. Like Hillary don't lie, give me a break

[HCE SuiGeneris]

45. perhaps I should have included this

:sarcasm:

[otohara]

124. Maybe He Was Sleep Deprived

sound familiar? :sarcasm:

Or maybe he was stoned! :smoke:

[RoadRage]

10. Ahh.. this coming from a person supporting the candidate who

claims to have "taken fire" a few years ago.

Pot, meet kettle? I suppose it's OK to "lie" when it comes to completely making up scenarios to inflate your "status" on the campaign trail, but to say what you might or might not have done in a situation like Obama's is an OUTRIGHT LIE? One that obviously can't be proven either way, because the reverend DID retire.

Yeah.. Obama is obviously the biggest offender here. :eyes:

Seriously.. if you're going to rant about a candidate "lying".. let's go ahead and examine yours first.

[StevieM]

73. I've examined her. She misspoke. End of story (eom)

[Alexander]

121. 4 times? About a traumatic, violent-sounding experience?

That's not a slip of the tongue. That's a LIE.

[niceypoo]

138. Trying to change the subject?

:rofl:

[RoadRage]

143. Nope.. staying precisely on point..

The OP was about candidates who lie. I pointed out that Obama didn't lie - he said what he would do in a certain situation that will never occur. Clinton DID lie.. she said what happened in a situation that DID occur, but what she said didn't actually happen at all.

That's not a mis-speak.. that's a lie.

[wileedog]

15. Do you have sermons from the last 20 years?

Or just he one's from last year?

[CreekDog]

19. But you don't know that this was a regular thing at that church for 20 years

If it happened a couple times in 20 years I wouldn't call it a pattern and no I don't assume that it was happening most of the time since so far we can only come up with a few examples, and of those examples only one was perhaps racist or prejudice.

The news media investigated this church and said they found no evidence that the church was a racist organization. The church has members of all races, you think they are all subscribing to a racist message? I doubt that.

Anyway, you can believe what you choose, for me and many others, changing our minds will take evidence and what there is does not represent 20 years of racism.

[DerekJ]

39. Yawwwnnnnnn

Duckkkkk
Sniper fire coming your way.

[RBInMaine]

70. Pretty funny coming from a SLICK HILLY fan. Try looking at CONTEXT here before judging.

If he was asked something like, "Having now heard these controversial statements, and if Rev. Wright was still the church pastor, would you remain with the church?" You see, we are talking about time juncture issues here and a progression of events LONG after the time he first joined the church some two decades ago.
You must ALWAYS look at the context of the statement and just how the question was asked. With the qualifiers and considering the timing, I don't see a whole lot inconsistent here. Obama has already repeatedly said that GIVEN that Wright has now retired from the church and that there is a NEW pastor, he has chosen to maintain his affiliation with it. And he has ALREADY taken Wright off of his role in the campaign. Is that inconsistent with anything?? NO ! THAT is NOT inconsistent. OBVIOUSLY, given the nature of some of these controversial statements and the flap it has caused, Obama as a presidential candidate and potential POTUS could not stay in the church unless the conditions Obama stated were met. He was being very honest, realistic, fair, and consistent here. In fact, ANY such candidate would have said the same thing being honest. It doesn't mean he would be disowning the man. It would mean he would be removing himself and his candidacy from such a controversy, much as he has already done by denouncing the statements and taking Wright off the campaign. (As to those who keep talking about 20 years, that's exactly right. Obama became involved in the church 20 years ago. This was a personal relationship he had with both church and pastor. Hillary stayed with Bill even though he aldulterized repeatedly. On both accounts, we can't go back decades and second guess the nature of these very personal and complex relationships.)

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

147. That may all be true.

But politically speaking, it was still a stupid thing to say.

[bellasgrams]

75. Everytime he hits a bump in the road he has to go back and

do his twisting and turning act. I first noticed it in SC. Michelle is on tape with her little snippet, how's he going to explain that away?

[RBInMaine]

85. Gee, how does SLICK HILLY explain away her being in combat in Bosnia??

[harun]

145. It is good he attended it, Wright is a free thinker who disliked United

States foreign policy. Don't most of us here on DU have at least a few issues with it as well?

Would you rather they talk about genociding the non-believers or world domination?

[indio55555]

152. Stop it.

You are liar. See you lied about saying Barak lied.

Yes he attended church by choice same as your choice. But consider this for the 20 years he's been there (631,138,520 seconds) you can only provide a 90 second video footage? Most of Wrights stuff was video taped, so don't bring up that this was the only DVD.

I bet your priest, pastor had a brain fart in his life also.

[MonkeyFunk]

3. LOL

but... but... I thought Wright never said anything wrong or offensive. I thought he told the truth that needed to be told!!

[jefferson_dem]

5. You haven't been paying attention, have you?

LOL.

[MonkeyFunk]

11. His supporters here have been saying that

for a long time now.

So who's wrong now? Obama or his supporters?

[jefferson_dem]

17. Obama has steadfastly condemned the most controversial remarks.

Not sure which Obama supporters you are talking about but, personally, I tend to agree with Barack.

[Skip Intro]

26. And that's exactly how he characterized them, the "controversial" remarks

Didn't mention any of them by name. Only condemed the ones that became "controversial."

Is that a man of character or a politician saying he's against things that people find offensive?

[wileedog]

47. What exactly are you worried about?

That Obama will win the Presidency and round up white people into camps? That he will fund experiments to inject white people with syphilis?

Maybe he will start a war with the garlic noses in Italy?

Seriously, if you never ever heard of Wright, would it even ever have crossed your mind that Obama is a 'racist'? Has he ever uttered once sentence, one offhand comment that made you think he was planning to supplant Congress with the Black Panthers?

The man is half white. DO you really think he sat though 20 years of sermons every single Sunday just like the one or two YOU have been exposed to?

And if he has, why don't you voice your fears? What EXACTLY are you worried about here?

[PBS Poll-435]

164. Obama is not a racist.

He uses other's racism as a tool.

[stillcool]

52. so what are you saying?

that every sermon the Reverend gave over 30+ years was controversial. Or, even the sermon those excerpts were taken from. Did you find that sermon controversial? Or just those few statements that have been played ad nauseam for the last few weeks?

[Shae]

118. Hey Skip Intro

I see a lot of opinion and spin, but what exactly can you point to that says Obama doesn't have more character in his little finger than the sleazy-queasy Clintons have in their entire pus-bloated bodies?

[stillcool]

50. who is wrong?

Obama has stated from the beginning of this manufactured outrage, that he strongly disagreed with the language heard on that tape. Now he is saying that if he had been present at the time the words were said he would have left. What's the problem? Now me? I have no problem with the words the Reverend said, so I wouldn't have to leave.

[2rth2pwr]

95. Anybody who doesn't love Pastor Wright has an agenda.

[MADem]

31. I didn't know that he "acknowledged" anything....is that tape on YOUTUBE? nt

[DemzRock]

6. Ok, now that REALLY does sound like a lie.

He would have left his mentor? Yeah, right.

As I keep saying, all pols incl. Obama are liars.

I think Hillary's Bosnia lie was a much dumber one though.

Oh, well, liars or not, they're both better than McCain who tells the truth when he says he wants to stay in Iraq for 100 years.

[stillcool]

54. Read the words as they appear on the page...

Obama strongly disagreed with the statements that were excerpted from a sermon the Preacher gave. Had he been in the Church at the time the Preacher made those statements he would have left. Got it?

[democrattotheend]

7. He said that a week ago, in his blog post

And what we were upset about was Clinton going out of her way to bring it up and keep it in the news when it was finally starting to subside.

[jefferson_dem]

13. Hillary's followers get all Pavlovian at the mere mention of the Pastor.

Lap it up like little puppy doggies. That thin gruel is all they have.

[MonkeyFunk]

16. She was asked about it in an interview

How is that "going out of her way" to bring it up?

And why is Clinton obligated to help quell Obama's PR problems?

[wileedog]

20. McCain didn't have a problem doing so

Even fired a staffer over bringing it up.

[MonkeyFunk]

30. wrong

he suspended (not fired) a staffer for pushing a very racially-charged video, not for bringing up Wright.

[wileedog]

40. He has also meticulously avoided all questions about it

And made it quite clear he has no intention of going there.

She didn't.

As for the staffer, semantics. McCain made it clear he wasn't going there, not that he was going to go a little there but not that much (if that makes sense).

While she tried to take the high road for a couple of weeks, when it was obvious Obama wasn't taking the hit she hoped for and her Bosnia fiasco reached the airwaves she didn't extend the same courtesy as a friggin Republican.

[MonkeyFunk]

46. it's not her responsibility

to help Obama dig himself out of his PR messes.

[wileedog]

84. Nor is it proper for a fellow Democrat

To throw more dirt in the hole.

[MonkeyFunk]

111. They're running against each other.

What don't you understand?

[wileedog]

120. I understand the point is to put a Dem in the White House

And one candidate is hopelessly behind. Having the candidate with the extremely remote chance of winning tar and feathering the candidate who is by far the most likely nominee is fucking stupid.

Not kind of stupid. Not medium stupid. Totally fucking stupid.

What part of that are you not getting?

[MonkeyFunk]

126. "tar and feathering"

by saying Wright wouldn't be her pastor?

You guys are too sensitive for politics. I suggest crocheting.

[UALRBSofL]

23. democrattotheend you are a liar, Hillary did not go out of her way to bring it up.

She was asked the question many times over the week and then 2 days ago she was asked again and so she answered. Try to spin your way out of this by making terrible excuses to justify your vile hatred towards Hillary.

[emilyg]

36. She didn't

was asked a direct question.

[democrattotheend]

49. She'd been asked the same question for a week. She chose to answer for the first time.

[MonkeyFunk]

56. and she answered with the mildest of answers

but you guys wouldn't be satisfied unless she said "I support Rev. Wright. In fact, later today, I'm joining his church, and I promise to make Rev. Wright my Secretary of Goodness when I'm elected."

[polmaven]

140. Going out of her way to bring it up????

She ANSWERED A QUESTION!!!!!

[Botany]

8. Well then I will never vote for Rev. Jeremiah Wright

Wright is not running .... Obama is. Now team Hillary
is hooked into Fox, Rush, and Ricahrd Mellon Scaife in
trying to make Wright the issue.


Give it up .... hillary is toast .... she is the red headed
step child on the rented mule .... the Washington Generals.

[Johnny__Motown]

9. This story is almost dead, Another week or so.. enjoy it while you can and be sure to watch out for

SNIPERS

[emilyg]

37. And watch out for "goat herders."

[BeyondGeography]

12. Here's the difference: Obama is talking about HIS church

Hillary should have kept her mouth shut.

By the way, has Obama personally commented on Hallucinationary's sniper fanstasy? No. And he has been asked.

One candidate tries to stay above the fray, the other is rated 37% positive and 48% negative.

[malik flavors]

14. How did he disown him? He just said he would have left the church.

[Leopolds Ghost]

67. Obama said that Wright was like family to him and sometimes you disagree with your pastor.

Now he reveals he was part of a putsch to force the pastor out of his post because of his political sermons.

As the former parishioner of several pastors who were deeply unpopular for their social gospel, one of whom
actually got arrested for defending El Salvadorean political refugees, I cannot in good conscience vote for
someone who views his pastor as part of a religious test for public office and machinates to switch churches
or get his liberal pastor fired in order to get elected. FUCK THIS SHIT!!

[Bok_Tukalo]

18. Looks like he is laying the groundwork for more "distancing"

This does not bode well. He was right in his speech and should continue that.

I believe he is making a mistake if he tries to "triangulate." Either people understand that his pastor is not him or they do not and let the chips fall where they may.

[anamandujano]

71. He knows what's coming down the pike better than anyone. One has to

wonder why he brought it up again. More distancing sounds about right.

[BeatleBoot]

21. But 20 years of listening to him is cool...no problem...

[anamandujano]

74. . . .and he was part of the campaign until the shit hit the fan.

[muntrv]

22. DUers need to aim at John McSame's boys, John Hagee & Rod Parsley.

They've spewed equally venomous crap.

[MonkeyFunk]

38. Neither one of them is McCain's

pastor, and McCain doesn't attend their churches, much less have done so for 20 years. You guys love to keep mentioning them as if there's some sort of equivalence, but there's not.

[DerekJ]

41. Bwahhahahaha

[muntrv]

44. Ah, repuke talking point!

[MonkeyFunk]

58. Believe it or not

not everybody who doesn't support Obama is a republican.

[Perky]

24. The only respones

Reverend Wright was insrumental in my salvation. I owe him so much. and while I disgree with things he has aid. Trinity is much larger than him. Anybody who goes to church instinctibely undersatnd that it hard to leave " what we call "family".

[LakeSamish706]

25. God you Hillbots are lame.. From a candidate that is a pathological liar....

I think the big mistake that Barack made was even defending this bullshit... He should have dredged up the crap that hillary has been involved in and run with it....

[Window]

57. No shit. If this is all they have on him, they have nothing.

Trying to crucify Senator Obama for things his pastor said...not Obama mind you, his pastor. Sad, sad, sad.

THEY HAVE NOTHING!

[AX10]

28. This is the politically expeident response.

Because that is what politicians do.

[UALRBSofL]

33. On MSNBC today they were talking

about Obama making another race speech because Wright issue was getting out of hand.

[stillcool]

61. the Reverend has been getting..

death threats. A 67 year old man, that has been preaching in the same church since 1972. He served in the Second Marine Division of the U.S. Marine Corps from 1961 to 1963, achieving the rank of private first class. In 1963 he graduated as valedictorian from the Great Lakes Naval Training Center, and from 1964 to 1967, he served as a cardio pulmonary technician at the U.S. Naval Hospital in Bethesda, Maryland.
During 1965 and 1966, he was awarded with three Presidential Commendations from President Lyndon B. Johnson.

and now...because he was Obama's pastor he is getting death threats. Americans should be so proud.

[Tellurian]

68. No, now, because he's full of himself drunk with power and turned into a Lunatic

[anamandujano]

77. So does David Duke, one would suspect.

[Tellurian]

65. yeah, if he can SELL IT! But, Nobody's buying it..

It took 20 yrs to dislodge his buttocks from a seat in a place where he listened to HATE Speeches week in and week out. By Obama's presence in that Church, he affirmed and condoned everything Pastor Wright had to say. It's fine he said "HE WOULD HAVE LEFT" if the Pastor had stayed. Obama also said: "HE WOULD HAVE VOTED AGAINST THE WAR", if he had been in the Senate at the time of the vote.

I'm sick of hearing Obama's shoulda, woulda, coulda, pronouncements about his VOODOO POLITICS..

Obama is too weak a candidate for the nomination.. I don't care who is for him...Kennedy, Shmennedy, the DNC... what did they ever do for me? Lose elections? Pelosi? She worked for 100 days and nothing since. Same with Reid and all the rest of the gaggle of worthless DNC politicos.

[AX10]

72. I agree.

"Obama is too weak a candidate for the nomination.. I don't care who is for him...Kennedy, Shmennedy, the DNC... what did they ever do for me? Lose elections? Pelosi? She worked for 100 days and nothing since. Same with Reid and all the rest of the gaggle of worthless DNC politicos."

This is why I am an independent.

[amandabeech]

79. I don't think either candidate is particularly strong, and I think that McCain is worse.

This is a critical time for our country, and all we can come up with are these three?

Pathetic.

[Tellurian]

96. Hillary has to be strong. The msn has been promoting Obama since he announced.

The msm is Republican based. They prefer Obama to be our Nominee because he is the weakest of the Three candidates. Hillary will be formidable against McCain and stands a better chance of putting him away than the vulnerable Obama and all his unearthed skeletons yet to surface.

[amandabeech]

97. I have never been a fan of the Clintons.

However, I agree that Obama has not received the same level of scrutiny that Clinton has.

I'm looking for FDR and I don't see him. Or her.

[Tellurian]

104. Well, it's like puppies. Theres always one thats the pick of the litter..

and she IS the pick from all the rest.

[Tellurian]

107. We're all Indy until we vote...

[Maat]

92. By hanging around with Coe, and listening to HIM,

has Hillary condoned everything he's about? I'd like to know - for Coe is simply one of the most dangerous, theocratic men around. If she did 'condone' Coe and the Fellowship by PRAYING IN A FELLOWSHIP CELL for years, then I'll hold her accountable for that just as you've held Obama responsible for everything his pastor said. If we play that game, I'll win.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

The Fellowship is a vile religious right extremist organization that advocates a change from representative democracy to theocracy - a bit more extremist than Rev. Wright, I'd say.

Please, you are spouting such crap.

[Tellurian]

101. Here's the difference. Coe and all her other religious friends were not her mentors..

Unlike Obama who was co-dependent on Wright as his Spiritual mentor. Hillary is not mentored by any one religious entity.

[Maat]

106. Wrong.

I guarantee you that the members of her "cell" and "prayer group" had more influence over her than Wright ever did over Obama. Moreover, her association shows how far she is willing to go for political power. Please. Try again.

Besides, have you seen Rev. Wright's resume? He's helped every disadvantaged group out there - and has an outstanding reputation in the community. I certainly have no objection to Rev. Wright being Obama's mentor. I hope that he ignited a passion for justice in Obama equal to his own. Rev. Wright supports marriage equality: http://www.nbjcoalition.org/about/supporters.html.

You can keep on trying to sway people with this drivel; but, I urge any readers of this thread to investigate Chuck Colsen's Prison Fellowhip (and its notorious favoritism of some inmates over other inmates in a notorious program). The Prison Fellowship is part of the infamous "The Fellowship," which is disturbingly authoritarian and theocratic. Moreover, google "The Fellowship," and find out about its properties, and who frequents those properties. Then, compare that horrid organization with Obama's church, which has fought for many kinds of social justice for decades. See which association bothers you the most. I know which one bothers me the most.

[Tellurian]

112. I amnot impressed with Rev Wright no matter how you repackage him..

He's a radical nutcase! end of story!

[Maat]

154. HeeHee.

You'd never last with my pastor then; she takes your mind to many adventurous places - gets you to see things from many points-of-view.

:rofl:

[Catherine Vincent]

29. Yeah, right!

[durrrty libby]

34. He knows how gullible the obamatized have become. He knows they

will swallow all of his shit

[stillcool]

93. are you salivating over

another shot at the Preacher man?

[durrrty libby]

130. It is reprehensible that some make excuses and rationalize for

such a despicable Hate monger

[stillcool]

179. I don't make excuses for you.

[Rene]

35. You'll never convince me is was only one or two sermons....and watch the

congregation.....they were ALL into the clapping, stomping, cheering. That inflammatory rhetoric, was the environment purveyed to and shared by, the entire group. I don't fear it..I despise it. Barry Obama is lacks a backbone and can't make decision.....120 PRESENT votes noted - no firm decisions...and his moral compass only showed up when the church environment was exposed.

[stillcool]

100. Ah...so you have a problem ...

with all those people in the church eh? You are disgusting.
and if you want to bring up those "present" votes...

SENATOR HILLARY CLINTON should probably be forgiven for not remembering the course on the state Constitution that she would have had to take as an eighth grader in Illinois. But had she remembered it, she would have known that Senator Barack Obama was not ducking his responsibility in the Illinois Senate when he voted “present” on many issues.

Unlike Congress and the legislatures of most other states, each chamber of the Illinois Legislature requires a “constitutional majority” to pass a bill. The state Senate has 59 members, so it takes 30 affirmative votes. This makes a “present” vote the same as a no. If a bill receives 29 votes, but the rest of the senators vote “present,” it fails.

In Congress, in contrast, a bill can pass in either the House or the Senate as long as more people vote for it than against it. If 10 people vote in favor and nine against, and the rest either vote “present” or don’t vote at all, the bill passes. It can actually pass with just one vote, as long as no one votes no.

In the Illinois Senate, there can be strategic reasons for voting “present” rather than simply no. A member might approve the intent of legislation, but not its scope or the way it has been drafted. A “present” vote can send a signal to a bill’s sponsors that the legislator might support an amended version. Voting “present” can also be a way to exercise fiscal restraint, without opposing the subject of the bill.
------------------------
It never occurred to me or to any of my critics that I was ducking responsibility for a making a decision. Mr. Obama was an outspoken member of the Illinois Senate, and not someone known for dodging questions, whether they were on ethics, police responsibility, women’s choice or any other hot-button issue.

Even if Senator Clinton does not remember the constitutional majority requirement in Illinois, one of her advisers might have explained it to her. When I was White House counsel, President Clinton frequently reminded me that he had taught constitutional law before he ran for public office. I would hope that he would assume that another constitutional scholar — Barack Obama — would be aware of his voting responsibilities as a state legislator.

Abner J. Mikva has been an Illinois state legislator, a United States congressman, a federal judge and, from 1994 to 1995, White House counsel. He now directs the Mandel Legal Aid Clinic at the University of Chicago Law School.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/opinion/16mikva.html?ex=1360818000&en=9417ee6115534086&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Friday, January 25, 2008
'Present' votes defended by Ill. lawmakers

In most legislatures, lawmakers vote either “yes” or “no” on bills, but in Illinois, senators and representatives can hit a third button for a “present” vote. Now that quirk — not unique to Illinois — has sparked heated exchanges among Democrats vying for president.

The two main rivals of Illinois’ U.S. Sen. Barack Obama for the Democratic nomination accused him during a debate Monday (Jan. 21) of ducking important votes by voting “present” about 130 times during his eight years in the Illinois Senate.

But Obama’s former colleagues who still serve in the Illinois Capitol say that the attacks are off-base and that either Obama’s opponents don’t understand how things work in Springfield or they are deliberately distorting his record.
-------------

The “present” vote in Illinois is sometimes cast by state lawmakers with a conflict of interest who would rather not weigh in on an issue. Other times, members use the option to object to certain parts of a bill, even though they may agree with its overall purpose.

“The ‘present’ vote is used, especially by more thoughtful legislators, not as a means of avoiding taking a position on an issue, but as a means of signaling concerns about an issue,” said state Rep. John Fritchey (D), an Obama supporter.
---------
In Illinois, the “present” vote works as a vote against a measure during final action.

State Sen. John Cullerton (D) calls the “present” vote “a no vote with an explanation.” Legally, there’s not much difference between the two votes, but practically, it can let the sponsors or other legislators know of problems with the bill that should be corrected.

That’s not how U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) characterized it in a debate in Myrtle Beach, S.C., this week.


Those remarks angered Cullerton, who is also backing Obama. He stressed that voting “present” is different than not voting at all.

“There’s not one Republican, there’s not one member in the history of the General Assembly who is still alive today who would criticize voting ‘present.’ There’s not one member of the General Assembly who’s alive today who has ever not voted ‘present,’” he said.

Fritchey, the House Democrat who chairs a committee on civil law, said he often used the “present” vote when he thought a bill had constitutional or other legal problems.

That’s also the reason Obama, who taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago, gave during the debate for voting “present” on a bill he originally had sponsored.

[Alexander]

43. He would've left, but there were snipers outside.

:rofl:

[MNDemNY]

89. Ever been to the South Side?

[Alexander]

117. Yes, I have.

Your point?

[MNDemNY]

131. No point, just a question.

[meow mix]

48. K&R

good post

[peace13]

51. OK class it's time to talk abut Hill's wacky religious cult.

Does anyone have the link? I can't wait for the MSM to flip this around and dissect Hill and McCain and their crazy ministers. Personally I am for the separation of church and state. Since most here don't agree I say we just roll around in the whole *hit pile instead of stomping on the periphery.

[Maat]

94. Here you go .... please see my post above.

I'm on Obama's side.

Here's the link: http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html .

[peace13]

132. Thanks for that.

This Wright thing is like the Kerry swift boaters. Part of me wants Obama to blast a full barrel back at Hill and the other part thinks that he has addressed the problem in way that a thinking human should understand. It is threads like these that make me wonder. Even my mother who is a right wing fundie is not too upset about the Reverend. She has her own troubles with her pastor. Go figure. Peace, Kim

[Maat]

156. Well, that's the thing ... if they don't like what Rev. Wright says ..

these authoritarians (who insist that people talk within certain confines) definitely won't like any of my ministers (I go to a UU service ... and we talk about EVERYTHING from MANY points-of-view); furthermore, if anyone doesn't like me listening to them ... they can KMA (kiss my ..).

[gaiilonfong]

55. The Taylor Marshites are out in full force

AGAIN.....

Why don't y'all move with James carville and Mary WAR CRIMINAL McCheney to New Orleans...oh and take Billary wid ya!

[JKaiser]

59. We need to stop talking about Wright! It looks bad for our party! Go DEMS!

I love Hillary Clinton, I love Obama! We need to support who win! We need to beat the republicans!

[goclark]

60. Get a life, Wright isn't running, Obama is and Hillary

IS running and she can't even remember that there were no snipers in Bosnia.

Let's talk about her paster who praised Rev. Wright.

Let's talk about the "Fellowship" how about it!

Thanks for encouraging me to make another donation tonight to www.moveon.com

:bounce:

[quakerboy]

62. An honest assesment

I hope that is mis-characterized. It would be, for me, disheartening, lessening what I think is the potential greatness of the Senator.

I still see what Hillary said as far more offensive, more comparable to how I would react if Barack was behind and started tossing off comments re Lewinsky.

But if it is an accurate characterization, it looks like pandering to a racist contingent that I would find unfortunate, and I expect better of Obama.

That is my honest reaction. I would not like it. It is nowhere near vote changing level for me, but would contribute to my general jadedness regarding politicians.

[ProSense]

63. Nonsense! First "had he not acknowledged that what he had said had deeply offended people" Second,

context is everything:

The candidate explained, "Part of what my role in my politics is to get people who don't normally listen to each other to talk to each other, who crazy things, who are offended by each other, for me to understand them and to maybe help them understand each other."

"I think he's saddened by what's happened, and I told him I feel badly that he has been characterized just in this one way, and people haven't seen this broader aspect of him," Obama said.

Obama Defends Wright on ABC's 'The View'

[Leopolds Ghost]

76. No, Obama just said he expect Wright to apologize AND retire. That's McCarthyism at the CHURCH DOOR

And NO I am not a Hillaryite. Hillary is anathema to me.

It is sad to see Obama destroying his integrity by throwing the no religious test provision out the window and replacing it with "I was amongst the people who made sure Wright apologized "AND" was fired."

[stillcool]

80. His pastor was already retiring...

Didn't you see the Easter Sermon?

[Leopolds Ghost]

87. Yes but he didn't say retire OR apologise, he expected him to do both. Even if its just ass covering

It sets a dangerous precedent for US History -- the very OPPOSITE of the precedent JFK set.

Did JFK win office by promising to renounce the Pope and call for his removal?

Did Kerry win office by bowing to the requests of conservatives that he denounce moderate Catholic priests and embrace the Pope?

[stillcool]

91. well yeah...

he is already retiring. I don't recall another candidates priest getting death threats over excerpts out of one sermon, out of 30+ years of Sermons, do you? Maybe the apology will save Reverend Wright's life?

[Leopolds Ghost]

64. then Obama is a liar. As a Christian, he has no business Blacklisting his Pastor, McCarthy style.

This is modern day McCarthyism and Obama just violated the message of his speech. Fuck that!!!!

And Fuck Hillary Clinton for asking him to.

Obama just went down about 10 notches in my respect.

[RBInMaine]

88. Cool your head. At least look for some context first. Also, he already fired him from the

campaign and has said repeatedly that he is staying with the church because Otis Moss is now the pastor and Wright has retired. He now constantly refers to Wright as his FORMER pastor. He was probably responding to a hypothetical, and he a gave a response with fair and realistic qualifiers. Christ, just how the hell was he supposed to answer. NOTHING inconsistent, unrealistic, or unfair here.

[Lucinda]

66. He's making it much worse.

[Mags]

69. and you believe that? how funny.

[Leopolds Ghost]

82. You Hillaryites are ignorant -- the story here is McCarthyism. Hillary has successfully proven that

Obama is like her in every respect -- she has gotten him to commit to support the firing of his own pastor, etc.

Non-religious folks and cafeteria christian conservative democrats (like a lot of Hillary activists) who believe that religion must defer to the "interests of the united states" wouldn't understand. Religious tests have no place in public office and political patriotism tests have no place in church. The church is NOT subordinate to the US Govt and parishioners have no business going church shopping for a church that is "pro-US". Christianity is about theology and the gospel, PERIOD. Anyone who tries to tone down the gospel to be "pro-America" is a false pastor.

[2rth2pwr]

78. First his Granny, now his Pastor

Who else is he willing to sell out to get to the White House?

[Mags]

81. his family, his granny, his supporters and anybody else who

gets in his way.

[RBInMaine]

90. TOTAL CRAP coming from SLICK HILLY folks whose candidate has a list of lies out her ass.

[MNDemNY]

108. Us.

[helderheid]

83. flargaty barghttyiopsbnjdbjsbd Gads.

[bevoette]

86. exactly (nm)

[madrchsod]

99. easy for you to say........

[Hutzpa]

98. waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

The hillary camp have no shame, her list of negative/rap sheet is
as long as the San Francisco Golden Gate Bridge.

bwahahahahaha! !

:rofl:

They say talk about what matters to the country, you say
attack Obama with Tonya Harding knee-capping.

Keep up the good work you down right bigoted disgusting
no clue religious family cult.

:evilgrin:

[2rth2pwr]

102. Obama, you need to talk about the issues, why are you so

obsessed with this crazy Uncle Wright?

Time to move on. Sheeeeesh.

[anonymous171]

103. Isn't that good though? I thought you didn't like his "hate speech"?

Concern individual who lives underneath a bridge.

[Swamp Rat]

109. How is this important?

What does this do to help us remain a unified force against the GOP?

[2rth2pwr]

110. I wonder if it has anything to do with this house

crazy Uncle Wright is building in a gated community.

Reverend Wright-"White folks' greed runs a world in need."



FOX News has uncovered documents that indicate Wright is about to move to a 10,340-square-foot, four-bedroom home in suburban Chicago, currently under construction in a gated community.

While it is not uncommon for an accomplished clergyman to live in luxury, Wright’s retirement residence is raising some questions.

“Some people think deals like this are hypocritical. Jeremiah Wright himself criticizes people from the pulpit for middle classism, for too much materialism,” said Andrew Walsh, Associate Director of the Leonard E. Greenberg Center for the Study of Religion in Public Life with Trinity College in Hartford, Conn.

“So he’s entitled to be tweaked here. So the question really is, how unusual is this? Somewhat unusual,” he said.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/27/obamas-former-pastor-builds-a-multimillion-dollar-retirement-home/#comment-254991

edited to fix pic.

[Dorian Gray]

113. It's all rhetoric

for political expediency. Her statements. His. I don't see why people get so riled up about it all.

[goletian]

114. obama said he wouldnt have been comfortable, or do you have a more complete quote?

politicians who say they wouldve left their church over being offended by a pastor sounds absurd to me, as someone who isnt religious. i thought the point of being christian was saving your soul...

[uponit7771]

115. THere's nothing there that indicates Wright isn't part of his church still, the title is false on...

...it's face.

[Seabiscuit]

116. I don't get this story he just defended Wright in his major race speech and pretty

much told everyone fuck you he's my buddy and I'm not turning my back on him. So why bring this up again and now saying that he would have left if Wright would have stayed! Geez, this guy has no experience in how to handle himself. Obama just shut the fuck up man and move forward. When he keeps yapping about it the story continues to stay in the news. Just shut up already. Real dumb mistake on his part and his campaign.

[loveangelc]

122. ya think maybe they asked him specifically about it? ya think??????

this was on The View.........

[cooolandrew]

119. The great thing about the bus it's going to the Whitehouse.

[DemVet]

137. Yeah, a tour bus.

[Pringles]

125. *shrug* He's a politician. Same continuum as George Bush. They all are.

[AmericanUnity]

127. Idiots!! WHO LIED? Hillary-Northern Ireland, NAFTA, Bosnia, SCHIPS, even her first name HILLARY.

[goletian]

128. KEYWORD: "SUGGESTS"

Obama has made it clear that, had he heard the same remarks being replayed on TV, he would have spoken to Wright about the problem.

[BootinUp]

129. no surprise nt

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

133. What a positively stupid thing to say. n/t

[susankh4]

134. Sorry if my thread was a dupe

I did not see yours.

But here's the one I posted in Editorials and other articles this AM:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x348718

Just so we can keep an eye on both!

This is a serious matter that needs to be discussed if we are going to be able to deflect GOP criticism in the run up to November.

K&R:kick:

[JTFrog]

136. You do realize that this religious test bullshit is unconstitutional right?

Time to shut the fuck up or put Doug Coe in the spotlight.

[acmavm]

139. Yeah, right.

[BigDDem]

144. The "Wright is right" crowd must be outraged!!!

I'll be holding my breath waiting for them to criticize the savior.

[The Night Owl]

160. Don't hold your breath. The Wright is Right crowd gets mad only when...

...Clinton supporters criticize radical cleric Jeremiah Wright.

[merh]

146. Oh for the love of god - try to be honest

and try to use some common sense.

I'll repeat what I wrote in another thread about this, guess I should be sure to keep a copy of this so I can repeat each time someone whats to twist words. - BTW, I'm watching the interview to see if this is all he had to say, it seems that his comments are cut off in the article.

I'll listen to the hypothetical posed and his response in their proper context, then I will decide.

===
Relative to his interview, Obama said he would not have been comfortable staying at the church if Wright had not retired and had "he not acknowledged that what he had said had deeply offended people and were inappropriate" - what's wrong with that? He never said he would have left, even the article you linked to doesn't go as far as you have gone. It properly depicts his words -- "he suggests" and what was he supposed to do? It was an answer based on a hypothetical question -- we know that Wright retired. His response was not based solely on "if he hadn't retired", it included acknowledging that the words did offend some.

If he had said in the interview that he would have stayed you would have been all over that. There is nothing he can say that will make you happy.
.

[Vinca]

148. You know, whether Wright stays, goes or flies to the moon isn't

going to end the war, fix the economy and get those of us who need it healthcare. The Wright issue has proved a no-go for Hillary in the polls. No one really cares all that much.

[zulchzulu]

149. It is seriously intellectually dishonest to keep making this an issue

As the polls have indicated, Obama's numbers have gone UP since all this nonsense. He is more popular now. The ruse that it was an issue has BACKFIRED. The right-leaning lazy MSM and some Hillary Clinton supporters seem to think this is an "issue", but people with reasonable sensibility aren't buying it.

Obama will be the nominee. Let's focus on McCain.

[MethuenProgressive]

151. "I did NOT have CHURCH with that man!"

That there is serious intellectual dishonesty - Wright from BO's mouth.

[MethuenProgressive]

150. Hill: "I would've walked out," called "BITCH!" on DU. BO "I would've left," called "brave" on DU.

DUbamas are a funny bunch.

[cd3dem]

153. This is typical of this election... Obama the All-Mighty

[ElsewheresDaughter]

155. what a pandering liar

[jenmito]

158. He didn't lie at all. Why don't you point out any inconsistent statements he made?

[jenmito]

157. He didn't HEAR such controversial things while he was in church. If he had, it would've been proven

by now and played all over the MSM and internet. He ALWAYS said if he knew about those most controversial comments, he would've left. But he didn't. So he didn't.

Hillary and her people said they would NOT comment on this issue and only DID after SHE got into trouble over "sniper-gate" and wanted to change the subject. She had Wright sitting right next to her during the Lewinsky scandal when Bill was up there PANDERING to him and others. He HAD to have been vetted before being allowed into the WH. Wright gave the Clintons spiritual counsel. Obviously Wright was NOT some crazy, anti-American preacher or the Clintons would've known about it.

[2rth2pwr]

159. When it came time to leave the church, Obama voted present.

[jenmito]

161. What a stupid comment.

[PBS Poll-435]

166. Actually,

It is spot-on. It's not the judgement, it's the ability to freaking make a decision in a timely fashion, not 5-7 years later.

[jenmito]

167. Actually,

no it's not. If he's lying about being in the pews during any of those very controversial statements, proof would've come out by now. He just heard about those comments like he said and nobody has proven otherwise.

[PBS Poll-435]

169. If you honestly believe that...

When the invitation to appear at Barack's presidential-run announcement was cancelled or otherwise recinded. Obama knew he was a liability because of his statements.

BTW, I was the real inventor of Post-It Notes. It was stolen from me. And since you can't prove otherwise....

[jenmito]

173. Obama didn't know about Wright's worst sermons until they were SHOWN to him.

And like he said, he DID hear controversial sermons, but none like the ones looped on youtube. It would be easy to prove if he was in the pews during those sermons-just see where he was on those days. They already TRIED to prove he was there during one of those sermons (newsmax reported it) but they were proven wrong when it was shown Obama was in Miami on that day.

[PBS Poll-435]

174. I am not going to argue what he knew, and when he knew it.

This is freaking ridiculous. This is the same word-parsing bullcrap that people want to thrust upon the Clintons. There is no way for you to know, one way or the other, if he knew, since the beginning, about Wright's worst words and that they were toxic. But to make the decision 15 months since he first knew (realized) Wright was a liability smacks of old fashioned, poll-driven, finger-in-the-wind political expediency. Some things will never change.

[jenmito]

175. That's important, though, to know what he knew and when he knew it.

And you KNOW people were digging through 20 years of sermons to try to prove Obama WAS there during those sermons. He did NOT know of his worst words and when he DID he told Wright not to be at the ceremony. He also addressed these comments over a year ago but it got no coverage. Nobody cared.

[PBS Poll-435]

176. It is admirable that you want to defend your candidate

And you believe and take every word of his at face value. To say that he knew some of the "code yellow" and "code orange" statements of Rev. Wright, but had no earthly idea, and was shocked, sickened and saddened about the "code red" ones is more than a little hard to believe.

It has been my experience that it is better to be slightly skeptical than blindly naive when dealing with politicians. It wouldn't have been so crushing when Gore and Kerry rolled over if I hadn't believed that they were infalable and would fight to the death for my vote to count.

You have been civil and gave me the courtesy of a reply. So to that, :thumbsup: :applause:

[jenmito]

177. Thank you, but

the reason I believe what he says is because he hasn't been disproven. His records are public...unlike mine or yours. Of course people would be able to prove him wrong by finding sermons given and matching them with dates he was in attendance.

I am NOT blindly naive or even sightedly naive. If proof came up to show he lied I'd acknowledge it. But thanks for the compliment. :hi:

[PBS Poll-435]

162. Didn't he retire like this year?

It takes the better part of a decade to decide that it was time to go? Was he chanting "Not This Time, Not This Year" for 5-7 years?

[DemGa]

165. How could BO possibly know the content of his mentor's "sermons"?

Just because he was there for twenty years? You expect too much of the Senator.

[Pewlett Hackard]

168. BHO

could care less about any "sermons". he was there for the connections and networking to advance his political career in Chicago.

[Orsino]

170. That's a politician's answer, and it disappoints me...

...as did the first part of his famous speech.

[Algorem]

171. he felt that Reverend Wright had "jumped the shark"

[guardian]

178. More like Rev. Wright HUMPED the shark! :-)

[Flyfish]

172. How can such an insecure person fool so many people.