A woman born in 1928 would be 80 this year.

[dsc]

She would have been 17 in 1945, seen her mother work in factories while her father was off to war only to be forced to return to be a homemaker. In 1950, she would have turned 22, in the very unlikely event she got a college degree she would have been a wife, a teacher, or a nurse in all likelyhood. Without a degree she would likely have been an office worker of some type or gotten married. In some states she would have been forbidden to own property, obtain credit, or become a lawyer. In 1968, she would have turned 40. There would still be no women on the SCOTUS. Women would still be banned from military academies. Harvard and Yale would have just begun admitting women. By her 50th birthday, she finally would be able to get credit in all 50 states seperate from her husband and women would be admitted to service academies. At the age of 53 she would finally see the first woman Justice. Shortly thereafter she would see the first woman astronaut. She would turn 56 watching the first woman on a major Presidential ticket lose. At age 64 she would finally see 10 women Senators. At age 78, she would finally see a woman speaker of the House. Can we really blame her for wanting Clinton to win so badly?

A black man born in 1928 would have been 17 in 1945, seen his father come back from serving in a segregated army into a segregated society and would have been 20 when Truman desegregated the army and Robinson desegregated baseball. At ages 36 and 37 he would see voting rights, civil rights, and fair housing legislation passed. For close to half his life he would see segregated waterfountains, schools, hotels, and virtually every other public accomdation imaginable. At age 39 he would see the first black on SCOTUS. At age 56 he would see Jesse Jackson run his first Presidential campaign and at age 60 see him finish second in the Democratic primaries. At age 40 he would see the first black US Senator in his lifetime, at age 59, the first black governor in his lifetime. At age 80, he would still see only 1 black Senator and 1 black governor. Is it any wonder he wants Obama to win so badly?

I am tired of both sides dismissing supporters of these candidates simply because they do so partly out of pride in self. I am supporting a gay man for Senate here. And yes, the fact he is gay matters some to me.

[Johnny__Motown]

1. Many black men fought and died for his country in a segregated military in WWII

Why did you skip ahead to '48?

[dsc]

3. you have a valid point

[ampad]

4. And while they were good enough to fight for their country

They were not good enough to receive equal treatment under the law.

[AX10]

2. kick

Though, I do not believe in voting for anyone based ONLY upon race/gender/etc...

[DeepModem Mom]

5. K&R

[krawhitham]

6. K&R

[David Zephyr]

7. And Donna Brazille astutely pointed out last year that black women would be the barometer.

How savy is Donna Brazille? Very much, I say.

For black women alone can say they have lived in both of those worlds. No one can tell them anything. They are exactly what Donna Brazille says, the barometer. And I trust them. They can weigh their experiences, many of which you have given, along with much more and crystalize it down to a single choice.

And, as Brazille has pointed out, and as the polls have shown us over and over now, black women gravitated to Barack Obama in greater and greater percentages than they did to Hillary. Why was that?

I can not answer that question, but their careful and thoughtful voting shows that they found one candidate to be better than the other for their own reasons. That does not mean that they found one was bad and one was good. Not at all. But they did overwhelmingly choose one over the other. Why was that?

That must have been a very, very hard decision to make. I can't possibly grasp how thoughtful African-American women must have been, how seriously they made their decisions.

I dare say that it was black women who have the highest and brightest candle in this church.

And that talks to me a lot. A lot.

[dsc]

8. the same reason they chose Clarence Thomas over Anita Hill

race trumps gender. I could have told you this would happen. I felt Hillary would win only because Obama would be out before it got to electorates with large numbers of black voters. But once it got to those electorates, I knew that black women would flock to him. Anyone who hangs around black people at all could have told you this would happen. On edit, they have every right to do that, it should be stated. I know the Thomas/Hill thing may be seen as an unfair comparison but I think it is apt. Thomas survived largely because enough blacks, including black women, supported him and disbelieved her to get southern Democrats, who were dependent upon black votes, to vote for him.

[David Zephyr]

14. "Anyone who hangs around black people". WTF?!

I don't agree with you that "race trumps gender" and you analogy of Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill is bizarre, to say the least.

I pointed out that I agreed with what the very brilliant Donna Brazille had said which was that African-American women would be a good barometer since (once again) they had "lived in both worlds" and that we could learn from their choices. What a wonderful thing she had pointed out and how we could learn.

Your cavalier statement that you "could have told" beforehand how black women would vote is offensive. How could you know? Really! For the record, when Donna Brazille made that statement last year, black women were evenly divided between Hillary and Barack. No race trumping gender and no gender trumping race. However, as racial codes were made by Clinton operatives beginning in Iowa and climaxing in South Carolina, that demographic clearly began to shift to Barack. Not because "race trumps gender" (whatever in hell that sweeping irrational and offensive generalization means), but because they apparently thought Senator Obama to be a better candidate. Period.

Finally, your very crass statement that "anyone who hangs around black people at all could have told you this" has nagged at me. I wanted to let it pass, but frankly I can not.

I have been blessed throughout my days to have my life filled with dear friends and family of African-Americans. I can't imagine a single day in my life without them in my life as they are part of my life. My companion (Latino) and I are the designated adoptive parent to our friend's African-American daughter in case anything should happen to them. I must inform you that you most certainly do not know how her mother would vote or how she would vote when she grows up.

DSC, I hope that one day that mixed families like mine will be the majority in this nation where we all love and cherish one another.

I think you meant well with your O.P. but such off-the-cuff remarks and sweeping generalizations that "race trumps gender" really are offensive and you should know better.

[dsc]

15. I guarentee you I have every bit as much

if not more invested in the black community as you do. I have worked at 6 schools with 4 black bosses. The majority of the students I teach, teachers I work with, parents I conference with, are all black. In addition, while I haven't dated lately, I have several close black friends, mostly women. And to a one, they said, even the one or two Hillary supporters among them, that black women would break for Obama if he got past the first, majority white states, as a viable contender. As to the Thomas thing. I was a home instruction tutor at the time of those hearings. I had several black students on home instruction. Every one of their houses I went to had those hearings on and in every single one of those houses, the majority of the people favored him over her. Women were slightly less likely to favor him but not by much. The polls later bore out that phenomina. Incidently the notion race trumped gender came from the women I talked to, even the Obama supporters, not me.

[David Zephyr]

24. Please enlighten me on your grand assertion that "race trumps gender"

I mean that is really quite a startling assertion that you have made with such boldness and conviction.

Since I find it both insulting and absurd, I would hope that you could provide rationale and evidence to support such a radical belief that you hold.

This "dsc doctrine" that "race trumps gender" is a new one to me and I imagine to others, too.

Please fill us in on your belief.

[blogslut]

19. Who chose Clarence Thomas?

Voters didn't choose Thomas. The Senate did. A senate full of white men. Your comparison doesn't apply.

[BumRushDaShow]

29. What the hell bizarro world are you living in?

The black women I know (and I am one) did NOT support Clarence Thomas, especially given his ugly demeanor and known sexism and sexual harrassment of not only Anita Hill but others. The whole incident of the pubic hair on the Coke can was DISGUSTING. Many of us were riveted to those hearings (including listening on the radio and/or on portable TVs at work) and what we saw was a digrace.

The man is ugly on the inside making him ugly on the outside. His bitterness, even today, continues to drip on every word and ruling he makes and exudes a putrid stench that continues to permeate the Supreme Court. He is truly the anti-Thurgood Marshall.

Clarence Thomas was supported by the all-white Judiciary Committee that voted him out to the all-white Senate floor to be appointed to the position, NOT the black woman, who had no power in the Senate.

[surfermaw]

9. You got it, we all have reasons for voting for whom ever we choose

[Melinda]

10. Absolutely wonderful post... thanks for taking the time to write it. K&R.

:hug:

[DearAbby]

11. Mom was born in 1925

She survived the dust bowl, and the depression, with only a eight grade education. She married and watched her husband march off to war. She gave birth to his daughter, alone. She worked at a munitions factory to do her part during WWII. Her husband returned home a changed man, who drank and beat on her. She later divorced him...unheard off then. She met and married my Father after he returned home from another war, the Korean conflict. She stayed home and raised four daughters, two of them graduated high school, one went to college.

Mom was the one who taught me, not to judge based on the color of one's skin, also taught me, a female can do anything she sets her mind to do. She passed away when she was 49. So she never got to see any of those things listed in the OP. But I know, she would have been equally proud of the fact that a black man and a woman is running for President. When I vote this November, so much will be going into that booth with me...This one will not be just for our country and future, this one will be for Mom.

[SwampG8r]

12. well said well said

good luck in your race for the senate

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

13. K and R.

I have but one R to give. :applause:

:toast:

:kick:

On edit: Your post is beautifully inspirational.

[avrdream]

16. I'm supporting the candidate who I feel is the most gay-friendly.

In case you wondered, it's Hillary, by miles.

(By the way, I also support her because I know without a doubt that she will protect women's rights in every single shape, way, and form. I know she will dig in her heels to get universal health care. And I know she will do her absolute damndest to protect our country, from not just terrorists but from environmental disaster.)

[JoFerret]

18. 100% right on all the issues you name

these are KEY issues.

[QC]

17. K&R! n/t

[tekisui]

20. Support of a Candidate for any personal reason, at all, is valid.

That is Democracy.

I, too, am supporting who I hope to be the first openly-gay Senator: Jim Neal!

[Not the Only One]

21. And the elected black governor when he was 80 was only the second one ever.

It's pretty amazing.

[DefenseLawyer]

22. My mother is 80 actually

She supports Obama.

[dysfunctional press]

23. i doubt that too many women were "forced" to go from factory work to homemaker...

people who think that way have probably never worked in an actual factory- it isn't pleasant work.

[goodgd_yall]

27. Interesting point

Up until recently, marriage was thought to be preferable to being out in the working world. I think that belief is based partly on two things: the idealization of married life, and the undoubted sexual harassment that women had to tolerate in the workplace, in a time when there were no protections.

[azmouse]

28. Believe it or not, a lot of women didn't want to stop working

after WWII. They liked the empowerment that came from a job and having their own money.
They were forced to leave to make room for the men returning from war. It was still very much a time when the man was expected to support his family and the woman was expected to take care of the home. The backlash occurred during the sixties when women were fed up and took matters into their own hands and demanded the right to work on equal terms with men.

Doris Kearns Goodwin's book on FDR and WWII includes info about this issue as well as other changes that happen because of the war. It's a fascinating book.

[anonymous171]

25. People tend to vote for candidates they identify with.

Nothing is necessarily WRONG with that. However, sometimes Identity Politics and -isms (sexism, racism, or homophobia-ism) are mixed up.

[susankh4]

26. Nicely done!

Thanks!!

K&R