University of Chicago: Obama Was a Professor.

[caseycoon]

university of chicago: obama was a professor
from a reply by monicaaida:



The University of Chicago released a statement clarifying Obama's status at the university. He is a senior lecturer and has cited that he is a constitutional law professor on the trail. That's something that has caused some criticism and allegations of exaggeration. It's something the Clinton campaign has pushed as well in conference calls with reporters in the past week.

Here's the statement:
"The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer." From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers have high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.


firstread.msnbc.com

[MadBadger]

1. Will the Clinton's Apologize to Professor Barack Obama?

Doubtful.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

20. Lol.

[Tesha]

45. Apology, Hell. The *REAL* question is will Hill's Shills stop pushing this now that it's debunked?

Speaking for myself, I doubt it.

"A lie gets halfway around the world before
the truth has a chance to get its pants on."

Tesha

[elixir]

68. No problem, when Barry's Bozos silence snipergate.

[Occam Bandage]

75. I like how you justify your candidate's camp lying about Obama

with an instance of your candidate lying about herself.

[frog92969]

178. Zing!!!

:rofl:

[Catherina]

79. Sorry. Tuzla was a lie from start to finish

The only true things in her story were that she flew into Bosnia and what kind of a plane they flew in. You're seriously comparing the two? :rofl:

[greguganus]

98. Your post is killing brain cells. Gotta put you on "the list". buh bye! n/t

[DemVet]

209. Lists are for the weak...you know which list I mean.

[goletian]

150. that was hillarys own doing. or did the obama camp put words in her mouth? n/t

[gabeana]

183. That was a stupid response even for a Hill supporter

[CoffeeCat]

197. Aren't you comparing apples and ping-pong balls?

Hillary lied about her corkscrew landings and terrifying sniper-fire dodging. That's obvious.

Obama didn't lie about being a professor.

Maybe we'll quit pointing out Hillary's lies---when she stops lying.

[FatDave]

201. Wow. That's just...wow.

I mean, that's not even grasping at straws. That's like grasping at a poorly-worded written description of straws. With your feet. Your logic is so backward that I feel like the mere act of reading it has made me a little bit dumber.

Let's see if I can put this in a way you can understand.

Your candidate lied about something. She was caught lying. Not somebody she was associated, she, herself, was outright lying in front of cameras, on national television. There is video evidence proving that the things she said were absolutely not true. She said things that absolutely were not true. That is a lie. No nuance, no miss-statement, a lie. It was not true. She knew it was not true. But she said it. Ergo, she lied. Sorry to go on and on like that, but you have demonstrated a problem with logic, so I want to make this clear. There are no shades of grey here. It was a lie.

Then, in an attempt to try to make her opponent look dishonest as well, her team said that he was exaggerating his credentials. Turns out that he wasn't. It was another lie by your candidate's campaign.

Then somebody said "will she appologize for her lie about her opponent?"

And you said: "Maybe when you quit bringing up her other lie."

Am I getting through to you?

[EFerrari]

208. Damn. I thought I put you on ignore a week ago.

[Kber]

187. Well - that is a good question - let's hope so

kb

[harun]

136. It is disgusting she has "conference calls" with reporters to give them talking

points on negatives to throw at Obama, talking points that are not true.

[Cha]

191. It's disgraceful and the only nice

thing will be the karma that bites 'em their collective lyin' jackalass.

[monicaaida]

2. hey

thnx

[caseycoon]

137. Gee monicaaida...

Did you think your information would stir up this much of a storm?
:rofl:

I still say it's great information!
Thank you.

[niceypoo]

3. Professors have PHDs

Lecturers have masters or less...

Why make a fool of yourself dredging up this old crap?

[monicaaida]

8. uoc

the university says he was a professor, then he was one


face it, obama is the whole package, obama is john adams, come on let it go, clinton will have a cab. position

[knixphan]

152. He IS the whole package

[AP]

9. law profs mostly have only JDs either way

[Jersey Devil]

33. and JD stands for Juris Doctor

There is no PhD in law. A JD is a doctor of laws and, by the way, lawyers can (but most don't) use the title of "Doctor". You may call me Doctor Devil if you wish.

[HamdenRice]

52. fyi - jsd

I agree with your overall point that law professors generally have JDs, but there actually is an equivalent of a PhD in law -- the JSD, which stands for doctor of juridical science, and LLD, doctor of laws.

They are sometimes taken by JDs who want to teach or make an original contribution to the field like PhDs, or want to go into something extremely specialized (often tax) or more commonly are taken by foreign law graduates who want to get an advanced law degree in the U.S.

[Jersey Devil]

55. By and large those degrees are ceremonial

There are no courses of study to attain them and the schools that grant those degrees mainly do so to promote the prestige of their own faculties.

Originally there was no JD degree. Lawyers instead received an LLB, Bachelor of Laws, going back to the days when a college degree was not necessary to attend law school. In recognition of the fact that a law degree takes 3 years of full time study in addition to an undergraduate degree, it was changed, I believe in the 1960s, to a JD.

[HamdenRice]

58. Not true

Trust me, I supervised a JSD candidate from proposal to doctoral dissertation, and sat as an assessor of another's thesis defense.

While LLDs are indeed given out as honors, most major university-based law schools now have full fledged doctoral programs.

[Jersey Devil]

71. I must be getting old

Though I do try to keep up but the JSD is something that escaped my attention. Thanks for the information. When I posted I was mainly thinking of the LLD which I'd never seen in anything but a ceremonial situation.

[woolldog]

173. The overwhelming majority of law professors DON'T have a JSD

[Hepburn]

65. True....

...and some law schools (Calif) which allow "special admissions" for those with only AA degrees award an LLB instead of a JD. At least in Calif, one must have a bachelors in order to get a JD.

[Jersey Devil]

81. The JSD is really something useless for a practicing attorney

An LLM in taxation could be very valuable to a practicing lawyer. But unless a lawyer is pursuing a career in academia I can't see why any would bother with an JSD and since Obama liked to teach but did not want to do it full time it is no surprise that he didn't pursue the JSD. It certainly does not imply a lack of intellectual ability as some have implied.

NJ also used to have a distinction between "attorney at law" and "counselor at law". with only those holding the latter certification from the courts being able to practice in appellate courts. That also was done away with in the 1960s.

[Hepburn]

125. I again agree....

...and I have a pal who got the LLM in tax and it is a valuable degree to get on top of the JD.

Interesting on the NJ history. I don't think Calif ever had anything like that. Kind of sounds like the solicitor/barrister arrangement, but applicable to appellate courts.

[juajen]

153. I have a question, and please don't attack the questioner.

Did Obama ever practice law? Except for when he was an intern at Michelle's law firm, I can't remember reading about this anywhere, though I could have forgotten. If so, what law firm did he work for? In the bio I read, I think he went from graduating law school to community service. Is this wrong?

[juajen]

172. Ok, I will answer my own question.

His bio said that he was an associate for three years, I forgot the law firm; perhaps it was Michelle's, I don't remember.

After serving three years as an associate, he then becomes a professor at U of C? I don't think so. Something's just not right here. His only experience in the law is as this associate, and then he begins lecturing at a prestigious university.

Don't even begin to berate or patronize me on this isssue. I was a legal assistant and executive assistant for over 30 years in several high profile law firms. I dealt with associates all the time. Believe me, they were low man on totem pole.

I believe this man is very smart, but not that smart. Lecturing on a subject only requires some knowledge of the subject and a lot of research. I am beginning to believe that Barack is not all he is supposed to be.

I will leave now while all of you attack me. I am not into self flagellation.

[woolldog]

175. juajen, I can top that. My conlaw professor in law school

had never practiced law at all! He went straight from law school into a tenure track position at a top law school. Some of my classmates did the same thing. It's actually not unusual to practice law for a short time and then apply for a professorship. It helps if you've been on law review.

My brother practiced law for 6 years and then became a law professor.

Here's a description from one of Obama's students:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/12/20/12119/122/324/424784

[caseycoon]

185. Thanks for this link! n/t

[HamdenRice]

176. Most law professors have relatively little experience

The skills required to practice and to teach are quite different. Most top rank law schools like UC actually don't want anyone who has been practicing a long time.

The typical route to professorship is law school, federal clerkship, maybe one or two years in high impact public interest litigation, then onto the academic job market.

Alternatively, it could be law school, a graduate degree in some other field (history, economics, political science), and then the law school job market.

[joeprogressive]

203. First of all Obama was a professor but I totally disagree about the JD thing

There are doctoral degrees in law as mentioned by the other poster and they are definitely not ceremonial. They usually require the equivalent of PhD course work and a dissertation and a JD doesn't. I realize that the "D" stand for doctorate in JD but it really is a misnomer. A JD should not try to use the term doctor in their title; they would appear silly. A JD is much easier than a PhD and is only 3 years. I know many lawyers that worked full time in non-law jobs and finished in 4. When you combine course work and research, a PhD is typically a 40-70 hour/week endeavor if you want to finish in four years.

Sorry, a JD does not meet the rigors of someone with the title doctor. That being said, Obama was definitely a professor of law with his credentials.

[Hepburn]

63. What do you mean ONLY???

It takes three fucking years to get a juris doctorate. I could have gotten a PhD in psych ~~ since I already had a masters in Ed.Psych. ~~ in half the time.

Hint: Think BEFORE you take fingers to keyboard.

[juajen]

162. Well, yes, but correct me if I'm wrong, but you can enter law school

right after you get your Bachelor's Degree, so that is just one year more than a regular Master's Degree. I guess you could call an associate in a law firm on par with an intern in a hospital, but I don't believe the two equate. Additionally, it usually takes longer to get a Ph.D. than one year. of course, there are exceptions to every rule.

[joeprogressive]

205. That's the key, you already had a master's.

Therefore undergrad plus 5 years for a doctorate. A non master's PhD will typically take 5+ years. Most do not finish in 4. A JD is not equivalent to a PhD. Look at the standards to get into law school today. I realize law school takes a lot of work but not nearly as much as a PhD.

[AP]

207. You're using ad homonyms to force me to defend the point that a PhD is not a JD?

Really?

[peace13]

10. Can you read?

I am sorry, what is wrong when words on paper don't compute to thoughts and understanding?

[Moochy]

133. Have pity on the bottom of the barrell

It's her irrational, ego-politics base that is left to defend her.

They don't have time to read, what with their constant struggles with reality, and inability to master basic mathematics.

[peace13]

180. LOL! Thanks for that!

I felt bad after I posted those words.

[cali]

12. bwahahahaha

YOU thiink you know more than his employer, the U of C Law School? Forget it, you've lost this one, hillbot. Oh and no, sorry but you're ignorant: There are many full law professors who don't have anything but a J.D. Good job looking foolish, poo.

[tishaLA]

21. People outside academia should avoid making shit up

about what those of us in academia know about credentials and titles.

[mckeown1128]

27. You obviously don't know what your talking about.

Professors do NOT HAVE to have PHDs.

[olkaz]

30. It's different in law

just fyi, most professors are just JD, not Master of Laws, or any further.

[ginnyinWI]

36. at my college

a professor was not necessarily a PhD. The term Professor referred more to the person's role as an instructor than what degree they had attained.

[HamdenRice]

44. Wrong. Not law school professors

Law school professors generally have JDs, although there is a trend toward law school professors who are interdisciplinary having PhDs in some other field.

[Hepburn]

69. In order for a law school to be accredited....

...not only are JDs required, but also membership in the State Bar ~~ that is in Calif and for WesSac accreditation. BTW: It has been a long time since I have been involved in accreditation ~~ so that may be an old standard.

[Changenow]

46. A Juris Doctor (JD) is the terminal degree in law

You have no idea what you are talking about, none.

[joeprogressive]

206. No, you are wrong

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juris_Doctor

It is merely the terminal professional degree. There are academic law degrees that require more course work. Once again, I am only arguing that JD is not equivalent to PhD as wikipedia clearly states. As far as Obama goes, he was definitely a professor.

[grace0418]

48. What do you think a JD is?

Good grief. :eyes:

[AllentownJake]

51. Barack Obama J.D. Juris Doctorate

A law degree is a doctorate.

Thanks for playing :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juris_Doctor

[Hepburn]

59. Excuse me.....

....but a law degree IS a doctorate, specifically a juris doctorate.

I should know ~~ I have one all of my own. I also taught law school...and I was considered a PROFESSOR even though I taught part time because I had my own legal career.

Hint: Don't talk about things about which you have less than a zero clue, OK?

[depakid]

186. Sorry, but you're wrong there

While it may be called a Juris Doctor, no one in academia equates a law degree with a PhD.

A law degree is largely a professional degree- with similar status to an MBA. In other English heritage nations, one goes into law through an undergraduate program and gets an LL.B -though JD's are awarded for substantially the same course of study, if one has another degree in a different field.

There are some other aspects of the English heritage systems that America has also abandoned, The distinction between barristers and solicitors, and "taking silk," which is like an advanced accreditation.

A PhD on the other hand, is an academic degree. Students who earn one have the "right" to be known as "doctor."

Pretentious lawyers in the states sometimes use the suffix esq., but they're not considered doctors- and the degree generally doesn't hold the same "status."

[Occam Bandage]

85. What the fuck did you think J.D. stood for? And why is it that

Clinton supporters who are insistent that they--and not U of C--understand academic credentials are also unaware of how to capitalize/punctuate Ph.D.?

[moc]

Professors have DOCTORATES (usually, but not always)

JD = Juris DOCTOR

MD = DOCTOR of Medicine

PhD = DOCTOR of Philosophy

ScD = DOCTOR of Science

EdD = DOCTOR of Education

DSW = DOCTOR of Social Work

DrPH = DOCTOR of Public Health

Get it now? Damn, do you look stupid.

[depakid]

188. Shallow analysis

Have you ever seen a lawyer referred to as Dr.? Are they entitled to use that title?

See my post above.

[moc]

210. Red herring. Was I advocating that lawyers be addressed as "Doctor"? No.

However, the fact remains that a JD is a doctoral degree. Assuming that only PhD's deserve to be addressed as "Professor" (the contention of the post I was responding to in case you didn't notice) is ridiculous.

Who can be referred to "professor" and who can be addressed as "doctor" are two separate issues. I was referring to the former. Speaking of the latter, however, since you are oh so knowledgeable - do you know what an MBBS is? It's a foreign medical degree - "Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery". Not a doctoral degree in the country of origin, but they are referred to as "Doctor" in their country as well as the U.S. So, the whole discussion of who "deserves" to be addressed as "doctor" is a bit silly.

Dr. moc

[SoxFan]

99. Law profs rarely have PhDs

All of them have Juris Doctorates (LLBs if they are older) and sometimes an LLM, or Master of Laws, which is an advanced degree in a specialized field of law, such as agricultural law, intellectual property, etc. I had a few profs who had non-legal graduate degrees in business and public administration.

[Debi]

119. "..if they are older" *giggle* Mr. Debi has an LLB

:rofl:

[Hepburn]

128. LOL....

...my spouse had the LLB, I had the JD. Just a difference in time when we went to law school. But, I was real close to that LLB degree instead of the JD ~~ guess I am not older...yet!

:hi:

[Greyskye]

115. Fail

must. resist. pressing. ignore.

[Xithras]

121. Only true if they're supervising graduate students.

I've met quite a few full professors who only carried masters in their fields. My own title is Adjunct Professor, and I hold a masters degree.

Professorships can typically be offered to any educator in a tenure track position, irrespective of their desire to gain tenure. PhD's are more common, but in many fields a masters is the terminal degree, and even in fields were it isn't, many masters holders have demonstrated themselves through publication, research, lecturing, or through exemplary performance in their chosen field.

The only real requirement for a professorship that is really recognized universally is the potential suitability of a person for a tenure track position (again, irrespective of whether the person or the university actually intends to pursue that path). In most fields, the requirement sets the minimum educational level at a masters degree.

[powergirl]

130. Law Professors don't have Ph.D.s

J.D., I have one. The University of Chicago calls him a professor. I think they would know. :banghead:

[Jed Dilligan]

144. Ever heard of an art department?

[FreakinDJ]

4. CNN is taking up HRC's stratigy to raise Obama's negatives

It's not just for tin-foilers any more

[Barack_America]

15. So they're reporting this without having contacted the University of Chicago?

If so, that's pretty serious for people who call themselves "journalists".

[FreakinDJ]

37. NO - they are reporting on Hilary trying to raise Obama's negatives

[Barack_America]

38. Ah. I took your statement differently.

That CNN was adopting Hillary's strategy of raising Obama's negatives.

They are the Clinton News Network, after all.

[Umbram]

132. I interpreted it the same way you did on first read. (nt)

[OzarkDem]

5. Stretching the truth for Obama

Not tenured or full time, but still a "professor"? Someone must have offered them a big donation for that one.

[niceypoo]

6. Notice they say he is a lecturer and a professor all in the same sentence...

...You are either one or the other.

Professors have PHD's.

[CreekDog]

14. this is BS/semantics

parading as something more profound.

strict definitions of professorship may limit use of the term but the familiar use of the term is valid too. teachers with PhD's at universities are considered professors in general.

this is kind of like disputing that 200% interest is usury on the basis that it is legal and usury is not legal. well, it is usury in parlance, even if it's not illegal.

but even if you could prove wrong or right definitions, this is such a bogus argument and a waste of time.

and for the Hillary fans out there I think the sniper thing was kind of bogus too, but if you are going to jump on Obama for this (which he made a true statement about) then let the wolves come and get your candidate for her Bosnia statements --I'm not going to defend her if you are going to play this game (and her as well).

and this stupid stuff helps Hillary get elected president precisely how?

[Independent-Voter]

17. Holy shit - another ignorant HRC supportor comes out of the woodwork.

Law profs typically have JD's you fucking idiot.

[yodermon]

23. Is that the case for Law Schools?

cite please.

[frazzled]

31. Please don't embarrass yourself: law professors have law degrees

For instance, Professor Cass Sunstein of Chicago's Law School has the following credentials:

Born: 1954.
Education: A.B., 1975, J.D., 1978, Harvard University

Alan Dershowitz, Professor at Harvard Law, has the following degrees:

After graduation from high school, he attended Brooklyn College and received a Bachelor of Arts degree in 1959. Next he attended Yale Law School, where he was editor-in-chief of the Yale Law Journal.<8> He graduated first in his class with a Bachelor of Laws (LL.B.) in 1962.<9>

You also do not know the status of "Senior Lecturer" at schools such as Harvard and U of C (I have been involved with both schools, so I do). Read the U of C's clarification: this position is neither an adjunct nor lowly: it merely represents someone who acts as professor while maintaining a career outside the university.

I heard Cass Sunstein on the radio say they begged Obama to join the faculty full time on several occasions, but that he wished to pursue his political career. He lauded his teaching to the skies.

[ProSense]

35. BS! There are thousands of professors with J.D.s, and

There are adjunct professors with master's level degrees. You can even find many with only B.A.s, their status built on expertise and experience.

[Changenow]

50. If the Clinton people couldn't make shit

up they wouldn't have a thing to say.

[Hissyspit]

64. No. You are wrong.

As MANY people have pointed out.

See post #60.

[Occam Bandage]

82. Fail. My father is a law professor. He has only a J.D. I'm engaged to

a wonderful girl in med school. While many of her professors have Ph.D.s, most only have M.D.s.

Also, the fact that you don't know how to capitalize Ph.D., and yet blabber on about academic credentials, is amusing.

[CreekDog]

7. did you go to college?

i don't recall referring to tenured professors differently than lecturers (or even realizing the difference).

[monicaaida]

11. clinton peeps

obama is not the devil, obama is the stronger dem.


lets see who would you rather want a person who had a former pastor that said racist or anti american things aganist a former war hero, or a person who got caught on video three times within months lying about being under sniper fire going against a former war hero

[peace13]

13. We gotta give it up.

These folks suck hard and long on the straw of denial. peace, Kim

[leftofcool]

16. Of course they are different.

[Barack_America]

22. Did you even read UC-Law's statement?

Or did you read it and just dismiss it because you didn't like what it said?

They have a distinction between Senior Lecturers and lecturers. That's their policy, not his.

[juajen]

169. It is very rude to ask personal questions of a poster.

This is an anonymous board. You could lie all you like about your education, or anything else on here, and no one would be the wiser. So please resist puffing up yourself at someone else's expense, or making fun of their presumed lack of knowledge.

[CreekDog]

182. It is very rude that you are not over yourself

It was a rhetorical question. :eyes:

[thevoiceofreason]

19. Want some cheese with that whine?

[teenagebambam]

I am part-time, untenured,

and am still considered a professor at my institution. Why is that so hard to grasp?

[City Lights]

49. You excel at turning sour grapes into whine. eom

[thewiseguy]

53. We have many professors at our department who are not tenured

What does one have to do with the other? They are two unrelated things.

[Hissyspit]

62. Oh, please. See post # 60. You are being ignorant and insulting.

[Emillereid]

70. BC - what's wrong with you Hillary supporters? The university explained the distinction - why is

that not good enough for you?

[Hepburn]

73. Have you ever taught law school?

I have ~~ and I was considered a professor and I only taught part time and, trust me, no one gave me any fucking donation to do this. I did it because I wanted to and I enjoyed teaching. Prior to going to law school, I taught HS...so teaching has always been in my blood.

Now, STFU about things about which you are totally clueless. You are making even a bigger ass of yourself. You basically accused me of taking bribes by your bullshit post because I taught full time and was titled as a professor.

[moc]

104. My god, but are you a dumb ass.

Here's a link to my previous post laying it all out for you. Read it, absorb it, meditate on it and stopping posting about stuff you don't know jackshit about:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5258473&mesg_id=5269698

[TahitiNut]

124. She really, really is. It's stunning.

Not the slightest evidence of a functioning brain cell in so many posts. I've seen stupid ... but that one takes the "empty barrel" prize.

"Better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and prove it."

Not even enough common sense to take THAT advice. Stunning.

[madrchsod]

131. the university of chicago

is located on the south side of chicago and it`s a well known ultra liberal university...yes someone was paid a lot of money for that "professor" title. that`s the dirty little secret the university wants hidden....

[tishaLA]

147. the universtiy of chicago is ultra liberal?

Now I've heard everything. Admittedly, in my field (literature) Chicago is both excellent and liberal, but the university overall has a fairly conservative reputation. Ever heard of the "Chicago School"? It's a bunch of free-wheeling free-marketers who were influential, and U of C based, starting in the mid 50s. The law school also has a fairly conservative reputation (i.e., Epstein and Easterbrook are movers and shakers in the Federalist Society. Here is a NY Times article about University of Chicago Law School's conservatism).

Let's not forget Leo Strauss and his progeny at Chicago, who have left the political science department with a fairly conservative legacy.

So no, it's just bullshit to say that Chicago is "ultra liberal"

[juajen]

160. My oldest brother received his Ph,D. in mathematics from U of C

and his department was very liberal. Of course this was in the 60's, so perhaps it's different now. He is still one of the most liberal-minded persons I have ever known, and I attribute a lot of my liberal beliefs to him. I grew up listening to his tales of the U of C. He used to visit Chicago regularly, for mathematical purposes and to see old friends, after beginning his teaching career, and stayed at the International House when he was in that city.

Though he is now retired, he taught at the University of Wisconsin in Madison, and at the University of Montana in Missoula. I used to call him Professor, and he always corrected me and said he was not. I do not know what the distinction was, but he did a tremendous amount of independent mathematical research, so perhaps he couldn't devote enough time to teaching. I don't know.

His wonderful brain has been shut down due to advanced Parkinson's disease, or I would get his opinion on this controversy.

BTW, when he got his Ph.D. at the age of 23, he was the youngest recipient at that time. He also was the earliest admitted to The World Society of Mathematics at that time.

I wish he could come back to me to discuss this election. He would be cutting edge.

[madrchsod]

164. several people from my high school went there at that time

very interesting place. our friend was majoring in "dead languages" and this follow classmates were some very strange people! yes many depts. represented the times.
what i found interesting is that you could`t walk on the south side of the street..i think it was 35th because that was the blackstone rangers turf...somethings never change in chicago
sometimes life deals us a cruel blow.. your brother would have some interesting tales and opinions about things then and how things are now..thanks for sharing

[madrchsod]

161. i`m kidding.....

[tishaLA]

163. oh thank god! with the other bullshit on this thread...

it's hard to tell what is and is not serious. It's like a through the looking glass thread.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

171. Oh, phew.

:)

[WritingIsMyReligion]

168. Have you ever heard of the Chicago School of Economics?

Not exactly "ultra-liberal."

:rofl:

[Kber]

190. Depends - does anyone else fit that catagory

not tenured or full time, but still a professor.

If so, just simply university policy.

If not, then you are right.

I wonder if anyone can find out.

[CK_John]

18. UofC seems to have been the family sole income provider, interesting. n/t

[undeterred]

26. What's the big deal?

That's extremely common at universities.

[CK_John]

39. Her salary doubled in 1 yr, interesting. n/t

[Occam Bandage]

77. She became a Vice President of the University of Chicago Medical Center, interesting. n/t

[undeterred]

155. Yeah that part is interesting.

It happened when he was elected to the State Senate, which doesn't pay much. Unversity of Chicago Hospitals isn't stupid.

I worked for U of C for almost 19 years. Its not unusual for them to find a position for the other spouse when they hire one spouse. Usually both are talented, but often one is a supertalent and the other is pretty ordinary and would never have gotten the job without their partner being there. In this case I don't know the story, but it seems fairly obvious that they wanted to keep a good relationship with both of them.

[soundguy]

24. Trying To Pad An Empty Resume'

has Obama ever had a real job? You know the kind where you have to produce something to get a pay check? Hmm he has more in common with my cats than me.

[backscatter712]

40. Go back to Free Republic, shithead.

[redqueen]

67. .

:rofl:

Don't hold back now... tell us how you really feel.

[TheDonkey]

199. lol, love it. Obviously that guy was a freep or a lunatic

and deserved the slam. He needs to crawl out of whatever hole he came out of.

[rox63]

He was a community organizer (for very low pay), civil-rights lawyer and as a lecturer at UC- Law

All of which involve working for paychecks.

[tabasco]

42. You think teachers don't have a tough job?

You're a stupid idiot.

[SoxFan]

Let's compare

Barack Obama:

Community organizer in poverty-ridden urban neighborhoods
Faculty member at one of the most prestigious universities in the country
Civil rights attorney
State legislator
US Senator


Soundguy:

Loudmouth on the intertubes

[CreekDog]

135. teaching isn't a real job?

you're helping your candidate quite a lot by posting that. :eyes:

[democrattotheend]

25. That was one of the stupider arguments from the Clinton campaign

They cited some genuine embellishments in that memo, but to pick a fight about the semantics of his title at University of Chicago kind of made the whole thing look silly.

[DrFunkenstein]

28. He Was Dodging Nuclear Missiles and Chinese Stars

Every criticism of the Clinton campaign is met with a lame attempt to say, "He (sorta) did it too!"

[Adelante]

29. Boy, am I glad to see this

I don't know how many times I argued this point last fall until I finally gave up on it.

[mckeown1128]

32. Here is a copy of the Clinton lie on the subject.

As the first in a bill of particulars titled "Just Embellished Words: Senator Obama’s Record of Exaggerations & Misstatements," the Clinton campaign charged earlier this week: "Sen. Obama consistently and falsely claims that he was a law professor. The Sun-Times reported that, 'Several direct-mail pieces issued for Obama's primary campaign said he was a law professor at the University of Chicago. He is not. He is a senior lecturer (now on leave) at the school. In academia, there is a vast difference between the two titles. Details matter.' In academia, there's a significant difference: professors have tenure while lecturers do not. ."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

[CreekDog]

138. difference? you mean the law students bow on both knees for tenured and one knee for lecturers?

my goodness but this is getting stupider by the hour.

this isn't simply losing a primary campaign, this is changing paradigms. :crazy:

[frogcycle]

34. who gives a shit?

don't get me wrong (see my sig) I am not attacking them or him -

but this entire "debate" over semantics is ludicrous


criticism of him for using the word, whether technically correct or not, is absurd.

if that is all they got, then rock on, Obama!

[Swamp Rat]

41. Thank you

Apparently, some folks are misinformed on this topic.

[UALRBSofL]

43. caseycoon, I thought I had already established he was a professor

I'm not an Obama supporter but even I knew he was a professor. This was a no-brainer. This was what I posted previously about this issue.

Obama stating he was a professor is accurate. Obama is a Juris Doctorate and he taught at a Law School. He may have been hired for a temporary position as a lecturer or instructor but he still held the title of Professor. He was considered as an adjunct faculty member. I'm not an Obama supporter at all but on this issue he is factual. I looked it up but my partner confirmed it as well and he starts law school in august. He sat in a few classes where he will be attending, a couple times and one of the Professors was an adjunct faculty member whom was a new law graduate and was teaching for a few months.

[crispini]

47. Apparently quite a few folks upthread disagree.

:eyes:

[UALRBSofL]

93. The only criticism I can say about Obama being a professor

of Constitutional Law at UC is that typically Law Professors have an LLM in a specific area of Law that they are lecturers. Obama should have had an LLM in Constitutional Law. That said, that is splitting hairs because I'm sure his electives in Law School were in the area of Constitutional Law.

[woolldog]

181. that is absurd, none of my professors had an llm in constitutional law

[caseycoon]

54. You probably did!

I didn't see that post, and there still seems to be some argument about it.
LOL

I'm sorry I duplicated what you have already established.
:hi:

[Caria]

56. A professor TYPICALLY has the highest degree in her/his field

PhD, JD, MFA, MDiv, MLS, PsyD...

But there are exceptions. My favorite chemistry prof in college was a full-time "full professor" with an MS degree (no PhD).

[Vinca]

57. The University of Chicago doesn't count.

:rofl:

[Ichingcarpenter]

61. The University of Chicago is dead to me now

[Maribelle]

83. Actually the university says he was an 'adjunct professor' not 'Professor of Constitutional Law'

Obama never said he was an adjuct professor, his dis tractors did. Obama said he was a 'Professor of Constitutional Law', which, as you can see by the university's statement he was not.

[Occam Bandage]

87. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status.

The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status.
The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status.
The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status.
The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status.
The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status.
The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status.
The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status.


And one more time.

The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status.


Obama did not have adjunct status. Basic English literacy. It's a good thing.

[Maribelle]

91. You're still reading it wrong. A Senior Lecturer is an 'adjunct professor'

[Occam Bandage]

94. No. They explicitly say that Senior Lecturers are professors and do not have adjunct status.

[CreekDog]

139. where's your law degree?

seem to be quite the expert at these titles.

[DerekJ]

192. Lord!!!

[UALRBSofL]

114. Maribelle they worded it wrong at UC

They should have said he was a "adjunct faculty member", but he was a Professor lecturer of constitutional law.

[Occam Bandage]

118. No, they worded it correctly. He did not have adjunct status.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

170. Damned midwesterners.

Who cares about the U of C, anyway?

:rofl::rofl:

:)

[Hissyspit]

60. Senior Lecturer is a big deal. I'm only a lecturer. BUT

everyone throws around the terms loosely and interchanges them the same way people interchange tint and shade even though they have technical meanings.

I get called doctor and professor all the time, even though I am technically not.

The specifics are important, but if I say I am a college professor, it is not disingenuous - even though it is not technically correct - depending on the context: did I do it in applying for a job?

[UALRBSofL]

127. Hissyspit, thanks for keeping us informed about

Gov. Siegelman. I'm sure everything will turn out for the best in the end. BTW, is that a photo of you on your Journal? Your very handsome. :)

[Hissyspit]

134. Flattery will get you everywhere.

;)

[ProSense]

66. It's friggin unbelievable that Hillary, the media and anyone would make an issue of this

Columbia University Law School Faculty

[ecstatic]

72. Wow. The Clintons are super desperate. Grasping at straws nt

[Occam Bandage]

74. I was a student there in '04. I first heard of him

when another student told me Professor Obama was going to be running for Senate.

I always thought the Clintonite attempts to make this look like Obama's in the wrong were laughable. It seems my alma mater agrees.

[Maribelle]

76. Obama said he was a 'Professor of Constitutional Law' which is different from an 'adjunct professor'

[Occam Bandage]

78. And U of C says senior lecturers are regarded as professors, and do not have adjunct status.

[Maribelle]

88. "... are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track" = 'adjunct professor'

Lecturers are not regarded as professors.


Senior lecturers are regarded as professors and have adjunct status = 'adjunct professors'.

[Occam Bandage]

89. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status.

Obama was a Senior Lecturer. He did not have adjunct status.

[Maribelle]

92. A Senior Lecturer is an 'adjuct professor'.

[Occam Bandage]

95. I'm quoting from their letter. They explicitly say that Senior Lecturers are not adjunct.

[Maribelle]

101. No that is not what it said. You're misreading it. An adjunct professor is a professor ...

who does not have a permanent position at the academic institution - - - exactly what UofC said.

Sr. Lecturers are professors.

Lecturers are not and do not have the status of 'adjunct' as Sr. Lecturers do.

[Occam Bandage]

105. Okay, let me help you with some basic English here.

"The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status."

The phrase, "which signifies adjunct status," is modifying the phrase "the title of lecturer." Had they intended "which signifies adjunct status" to be modifying the phrase, "the title of Senior Lecturer," they would have either replaced the word "which" with "and," or they would have placed the phrase "which signifies adjunct status" after the phrase "the title of Senior Lecturer."


The fact that you do not understand English is not Barack Obama's problem, nor is it the University of Chicago's.

[Maribelle]

117. It's not me that does not understand what an 'adjunct professor' is. You are minunderstanding it.

And, on top of not understanding the 'adjunct' status given to a 'professor', ou are misreading the 'comma' followed by 'which signifies'


AMEN

[Occam Bandage]

122. Look.

I have a degree in linguistics. I construct Chomskyist X-bar grammatical trees for fun. I have TA'd classes in advanced English grammar. I am an alum of University of Chicago.

And you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

I've tried to explain to you where you went wrong. You insist that the University of Chicago actually meant to write an ungrammatical sentence (not to mention one that would completely invert the academic hierarchy), simply because you don't understand proper comma usage.

I don't blame you for your utter ignorance. Our academic system often does not teach proper writing; at U of C, students generally fail their first handful of essays due to their poor mechanics. I do, however, blame you for the thickheaded nature in which you insist others must wallow in your ignorance alongside you.

[Coexist]

140. (I'm glad I haven't pissed you off)

(yet)

(I think)

!!!

:toast:

[CreekDog]

141. forgive her, unlike University of Chicago, her school probably doesn't do grammar as well

:think:

[Debi]

107. ....

"...He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors..."


:crazy:

[Debi]

86. Well then you must be right - because Hillary said so -

and the University of Chicago College of Law (where Obama was a professor) must be wrong.

It it backwards day AGAIN??? :crazy:

[Maribelle]

97. No the University of Chicago said he was an adjunct professor

[Occam Bandage]

100. You can't possibly be this stupid. Read this line.

"The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status."

[Debi]

103. Are you taking bets? n/t

[Maribelle]

108. Prehaps you are disregarding the comma? Sr. Lecturer is an 'adjunct professor' not a Lecturer.

[Occam Bandage]

110. The comma is necessary. Were you to strike the comma, the sentence would be ungrammatical.

Your illiteracy is not the University of Chicago's problem.

[Occam Bandage]

116. And disregarding your functional illiteracy, think about what you're saying.

You're suggesting that the position of Lecturer is more prestigious than the position of Senior Lecturer. Does that make any sense to you?

[4themind]

120. And also if that's the case, since:

"From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004" That would suggest he was DEMOTED, LOL

[Occam Bandage]

126. In addition, since he has held both the title of Lecturer and the title of Senior Lecturer, her

non-point about Lecturers outranking Senior Lecturers is moot. Even under her illiterate sounding-out of that sentence, Obama has still been a non-adjunct professor.

[Coexist]

146. "sounding out"

holy shit - this is the best exchange all day. This is better than when my husband had my hound hone in on a lizard. The lizard was terrified and would not budge - and she stood sentry with her nose an inch from the thing, unwilling to not do her job.

BTW - you are the loyal hound doing her job perfectly in this scenario.

[DevonRex]

174. Okay, now you did it.....

You know, up until that last post I thought maybe, just maybe, you might be dense enough that you couldn't read and comprehend very well.

But now it's obvious that you're being deliberately obtuse and that you're just trying to cause trouble.

Welcome to MY VERY OWN private ignore list.

[CreekDog]

143. I'll bet you on the "possibly" part

:evilgrin:

[Debi]

102. Yes, which makes him a professor.

Go ahead and try to worm your way around it, the U of C College of Law has backed up Sen. Obama's claims. The Clinton camps attempt at smears failed again.

[Maribelle]

106. Obama is not, however, 'Professor of Constutional Law' as he said he was.

That is a totally different position than Senior Lecturer which is an 'adjunct professor'

[Occam Bandage]

109. Again, you are having problems with basic English comprehension. I know that adjectival phrases

can be tricky, but again:

"The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status."

The phrase, "which signifies adjunct status," is modifying the phrase "the title of lecturer." Had they intended "which signifies adjunct status" to be modifying the phrase, "the title of Senior Lecturer," they would have replaced the word "which" with "and."

The fact that you do not understand English is not Barack Obama's problem, nor is it the University of Chicago's.

[XemaSab]

154. "The fact that you do not understand English is not Barack Obama's problem,

nor is it the University of Chicago's."

PWNED!

:rofl:

[Debi]

112. He was a Sr. Lecturer - (a professor) who taught Constitutional Law

therefore he was a 'Professor of Constitiutional Law'.

Keep trying...at least we're not focusing on the lack of snipers in Bosnia in 1996 or the passing of FMLA or the SCHIP program while we're arguing what the definition of 'professor' is :crazy:

[Occam Bandage]

113. Moreover, as a Senior Lecturer, he did not have adjunct status, as the inferior rank of Lecturer

does.

[DerekJ]

FUCKKKK

"is distinct from "

You are making a fool of yourself.

[Mezzo]

80. Actually they said: REGARDED as a professor. nt

[Occam Bandage]

84. Right. The University, and his colleagues, regard him as a professor. You might not, but frankly

you don't really matter, since you aren't the institution in question. If they regard him as a professor, he's a professor. End of story.

[Debi]

96. But Hillary doesn't regard him as a professor -

and that's what matters to her followers.

[UALRBSofL]

123. I'm a Clinton supporter and I considered him a professor

You know when my partner says it's so, trust me, it's true. He is versed about law school. :)

[Debi]

90. Ooooohhhhhh, so he's only a professor like the guy on Gilligan's Island?

[CreekDog]

145. The Professor only had a Master's Degree

His dissertation on boat repair failed miserably. :think:

[Debi]

156. Oh yeah? Don't discount everything the Professor came up with!

The Shower

Furniture

That bicycle thingy that helps wash clothes and keep the radio going:

[BumRushDaShow]

111. Thanks for posting this.

A shame Clinton supporters are so blinded that they continue to argue about what the school itself has indicated, completely oblivious to anything but their brainwashing.

[Doctor_J]

129. 75 posts debating whether UofC is lying about Prof. Obama's credentails

the Hillarians are no better than the Hate Radio listeners.

[madrchsod]

142. but the truth will set them free

trying to "suppress" the fact that the university of chicago is a "ultra left" university that is "located near" obama`s "home" leads to the "conclusion" that the university did receive a "large contribution" from obama`s friend and mentor "rezko wright". a little "known fact" is that many others have bought..."well contributed"..to the the university`s "granting" of doctorates and professorships because they are the most "qualified"..



future breaking news....

i have it from a "good source" that this will be "revealed" in the coming weeks during the rezko trial.

the indictments will destroy the universities reputation as one of the "best" universities in the nation and will destroy the obama "quest" for the white house...

yes... you "read it here first"

[caseycoon]

159. OMG!

Say it ain't so...



:rofl:

[redstate_democrat]

151. lol

Most of them have never stepped foot in an institution of higher learning, so they really have no clue about academia. We must forgive them for their ignorance.

[whistler162]

158. Yup... kind a like....

arguing with a man with one arm that he writes with the missing arm only!

Of course we know the UoC is not telling the truth. The document wasn't signed by John Jay, John Marshall, and Oliver Wendell Holmes!

[Major Hogwash]

148. Thank you caseycoon!!!

I did not know this.

Reason #1129 for voting for Obama!!

[caseycoon]

157. monicaaida is the original poster in a reply on another post.

Unfortunately, monicaaida had used up the 3 posts for today so I posted it.

You're welcome.

[Symarip]

149. Oh Noes!!!!11

Wait, did he capitalize the 'p'?

Can't wait for the smear campaigns to try and drive that one home.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

165. College faculty are VERY protective of their titles. Obama never would have >

> gotten away with calling himself a 'professor' at such a prestigious institution if the faculty and administration there hadn't approved.
Thanks for posting this, caseycoon & monicaaida, and I hope it's the end of it.

[caseycoon]

167. YUL BRYNNER!

*sigh*

Yes... I'm THAT old...
:rofl:

[mainer]

166. Thanks, Hillary. You just informed us Obama's a scholar!

Many people don't even know that Obama taught Constitutional law. But because Hillary's people brought this up, she's just informed the WHOLE COUNTRY that Obama's an accomplished legal scholar. Why is it that every time she attacks, it backfires? Her Rev. Wright attack took the wind out of the rumors that obama was Muslim. And this latest attack only points out to the country that Obama is brilliant enough to teach Constitutional law.

[frog92969]

177. I got flamed for calling BO a professor.

I don't remember who you are but...SUCK IT!!!

[Rubiconski2009]

179. Swing and a miss. Nice try, Hillary.

How many more innings of this charade do we all have to suffer through?

[depakid]

184. Seems like a lot of hairsplitting

Here's the bottom line: Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.

Why anyone would consider this an issue baffles me.

[Johnny__Motown]

189. Hillary is such a liar that they are trying to pin something on Barrack. but they can't

not much at least

[depakid]

194. So what is it now that she's supposedly lying about?

:shrug:

[Mezzo]

193. who signed this? This letter smells to high heaven. nt

[caseycoon]

195. It's true. Here's the link

to the U of C Law School website regarding Obama.


http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html

[InsultComicDog]

196. k&r

:kick:

[TheDonkey]

198. Hillary lies again about Obama. What a surprise. Hard to tell the truth when you are under such

heavy sniper fire!

[aein]

200. if I'm at a top LS like UofC Law School (ranked 5th), then a guy who is teaching a course...

...is a "Professor." Also Obama, as a Magna Grad and President of HLR, has better credentials than most of my law professors.

[EFerrari]

204. It's ridiculous already. Berkeley's English Dept was ranked first

when I taught there in grad school as an associate and my students called me "professor" and it has nada to do with that 3 a.m. call. lol

[1776Forever]

202. Thank you for positng - I had sent an email with an article from CH Sun Times to the Verdict

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/701490,CST-NWS-obamaprof18.article

Law students gave Obama big thumbs-up
'I LOVED TEACHING' | Consistently rated one of top instructors at U. of C.
December 18, 2007

BY ABDON M. PALLASCH Political Reporter/[e-mail]

White House hopeful Barack Obama could have given it all up for the gentler life of a law professor.

A Sun-Times review of student evaluations from Obama's 10 years of teaching part-time at the University of Chicago Law School shows that students almost always rated Obama as one of their top instructors -- except for one quarter in 1997.

..........

Abrams had reported that he wasn't a professor and I heard on a couple of radio shows that Rove had started this lie about him among other things he said Obama lied about! BS!!! Why anyone would believe that sack of crap is beyond me!!!!!