TPM Election Central: "Hillary Is About To Lose Texas and Bill is Terrified? -- Listen Up Media!"

[WilliamPitt]

Hillary Is About To Lose Texas and Bill is Terrified? -- Listen Up Media!
By Connie Manes - March 27, 2008, 11:05PM

Bill Clinton reportedly terrified that Hillary is about to officially lose Texas

by John Aravosis (DC) · 3/27/2008 07:28:00 PM ET ·

You'll recall that the media declared Hillary the winner of Texas before it was actually over. Texas had a primary and a caucus, and Hillary only won the primary. The winner of Texas is decided by adding the delegates from both the primary and the caucus. Come this weekend, we should find out that Obama really won Texas. A NY Daily News reporter accidentally got invited to a private conference call Bill Clinton was holding today with Texas delegates. Seems the campaign is terrified that people may finally figure out this weekend that Hillary lost Texas

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/hillary-is-about-to-lose-texas.php

[Cooley Hurd]

1. The Clinton Campaign will dredge up the "caucuses aren't democratic" talking point...

...w/ Mark Penn front and center. Count on it...

[northzax]

8. well, they are

well, only if you consider single mothers, night shift workers, the housebound and those in the military to be voters. If we have learned anything from this election is that it is time for caucases to go the way of the Dodo.

oh right, we're talking about Obama people. my bad.

[Cooley Hurd]

9. Well, perhaps single mothers, night shifters, housebound and those in the military...

...would have the same difficulties getting to the polling places in a primary? Hmm?

[northzax]

12. right, because lords knows no one has ever invented a way

to cast a ballot from a distance. I know, we could call them "absentee ballots"! brilliant!

so tell me, you have a caucus tonight. (we're pretending here) and that morning, your boss says "you have a meeting in Phoenix tonight, your plane leaves at 3, if you aren't there, you might as well not come in tomorrow" do you miss your chance to vote, or do you keep your job? As an example. I live in DC. I wasn't here for the primaries, I was at a conference. but I still got tyo vote by mail (had it been an emergency, I could have done it in person for up to a week earlier) if I lived in a caucus state, I would have to choose between having my say in the election and doing my job. How is that a choice anyone should have to make?

and you don't think, in any way shape or form, that it is easier to find time to make it to a polling place between the hours of 7 am and 9 pm, than to be somewhere where you have to be there exactly at 7:00 pm and stay for at least an hour? In an age of convenience, why make it harder to vote? Cacuses are inherently suppressive and violate the concept of the secret ballot (imagine, if you will, you are in an abusive relationship. your husband, a huge McCain supporter, insists you vote for McCain, you risking your health, and that of your children to go to the Democratic Primary? what about your boss? you are up for a Promotion next week, and he is a Hillary supporter and makes it clear he thinks Obama and his supporters are nuts. you going to stand on the other side of the room and look at him?

[Cooley Hurd]

13. If they're into it enough to cast an absentee ballot...

...then they would find a way to get to the caucus, no?:D

[northzax]

14. until they have to hire a sitter

which costs money. or take a night off of work, which costs money. or hire an ambulance service to carry them there, which costs money. or fly home from their posting in Hawaii, which costs money.

if you want to know the simple answer look at the numbers:

2,818,599 people voted for either Hillary Clinton or Barak Obama in the Texas Primary (according to CNN.com) with 126 up for grabs. Each delegate represents 22,368 voters. now, is is believed that roughly 1,000,000 people (no one seems to have an exact number) attended caucuses, with 67 delegates up for grabs, those delegates represent about 15,000 caucus goers.

so where did the other 1.8 million people go? why do the 1,000,000 or so who caucused get more power than the 1.8 who didn't? it's the way the system is, and that's how it is this year, but I will be sorely disappointed if the Party doesn't move away from caucuses for 2012.

[roguevalley]

47. or if they had to find a portable iron lung or maybe they had to

have a temporary prosthetic eyeball inserted for just the caucus. I come from a caucus state and the first inkling I had that Hillary was a dipshit was when she and her campaign began to denigrate the caucuses.

[northzax]

62. even if it is one person

who is disenfranchised, isn't that enough? You've never been hospitalized? Good for you. Never had an elderly relative break a hip? Get pnemonia?had to travel for work? Had your sitter get the flu and cancel last minute? You must lead a charmed life.

[Samantha]

50. It was reported on the news the day after the Texas vote

that many people who voted in the primary did not show up to caucus. I think that's what made the difference you inquired about. (Sorry, no link, as I said, heard it on the cable news)

That's why Texans informally call their process the Texas Two Step. You have to do both. While we outsiders might think this is a burdensome system, they define the law for themselves, as each state does, and we have to respect their rules, as Texas must respect those rules of the rest of the states.

So the votes of those attending the caucus does not carry more weight than those who voted in the primary; it's just that those who attended the caucus got full credit because they followed through by completing both required steps.

[billyoc]

74. You have FOUR YEARS to save up the money for the babysitter. nt

[Diane R]

48. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. I live in a caucus state...we got votes by letter.

Anyone who could not attend simply wrote a letter, and their vote counted as if they were present. You are just listening to yet another Clinton lie...that people cannot participate in a caucus if they have to work.

[northzax]

64. so tell me

since it is so democratic and accessible, and I can't do this research because I don't know your state (tell me, and I will do it)

How many registered voters are there in your state eligible to caucus? (open, dems/inds, closed?$

How many caucused?

In a demographically similar state, that has primaries, what percentage of eligible voters voted?

Is your state higher, or lower? Why is that?

What other decisions does your community make at caucuses? Do you elect a mayor that way? Your senator? Your electoral college delegates in November? Bond issues? Anything? Why is that?

Now I want you to think back to your precinct hall. If every eligible voter in your precinct showed up, would the room have been large enough? What would have happened? I know there isn't a large enough room in my precinct for the roughly 5,000 eligible voters. How about yours?

[rainbow4321]

51. "Secret balloting"? Let me tell ya about some towns and their voting systems

Specifically, my sis' town in Northeast OK..there's no secrets, the record books are open for everyone to see as they are signing into vote.

They do primary voting, not caucus.

You go up to the election workers who have the book that has all the voters' names AND their chosen party..they have to put their signature next to their name and write their **party choice**.

All the town/church/school people and one's family members see each other's names in the book (or at least all the ones on the 2 pages open to them) as well as which party they are voting for.

As much as sis would WANT to vote Dem, the threat of her red, red, RED repuke of a husband seeing her name/signature/"Democratic Party" is very real and has some potentially REALLY bad consequences. And there is no "I'll go without him and he won't know" because his name is right above hers and when he goes, what will he see right above HIS name? Her name and voting information.

She had to do some quick moves one year before one of their election days and switch her voting registration back to Repuke because the previous year she had somehow gotten to vote Dem and there would have been hell to pay had her husband seen Dem next to her name.


Then there is the actual General Election day voting. No curtains to go behind..just these desks right up next to each other with nothing obstructing your view from the person next to you and their paper ballots...forget all those pretty little curtained voting boothes images you see around the country on TV.


BTW, even though my TX city of 250,000 has touch screen machines, in our primary it was still possible to know which party the people in line were voting for because while you are in line in front of the poll workers you hear them asking everyone in front of you "which party?" and the voters' answers. No secret party voting at all in a primary setting, certainly no more secrecy than a caucus setting.

[northzax]

65. the party, sure. That is open information

on public records. But not the person they actually voted for, right?

[rainbow4321]

69. You referred to secret ballots and McCain vs Dem

Your post:
"Cacuses are inherently suppressive and violate the concept of the secret ballot (imagine, if you will, you are in an abusive relationship. your husband, a huge McCain supporter, insists you vote for McCain, you risking your health, and that of your children to go to the Democratic Primary?"


My response was directed at you saying that such a scenario could only happen in a caucus setting and not primary because the caucus violates secret balloting and primary voting doesn't. Oklahoma is a primary voting not a caucus and yet there are NO secrets in which party one chooses---and the scenario you used is pretty much what my sis would have to deal with if he saw Democratic next to her name. Not physical but mental and financial, unfortunately.

[northzax]

70. see, that too is a problem

and we should be working to make all ballots secure and free of intimidation. Not making it easier. everyone, and I think you'll agree, should be able to vote secretly and securely, for the candidate of their choice. Ideally, you should be able to walk up, or request a mail ballot, and get a general ballot with all candidates, one section for each party, you only fill out one of the sections, all other votes are null and void. No one knows the party you vote for, nothing except that you voted. of course, this only works if both parties have open primaries.

[Cha]

28. Why? Are you supporting the Bosnian Fire by

Sniper Liar?

[northzax]

36. well, I do

but my reasons are listed above.

[Cha]

37. Well, if you support a Liar like hilary then

good luck with that.

[northzax]

39. um, she's a politician

of course she lies sometimes, it's what they do. You know, like Obama and NAFTA? what's the shock about that?

and therefore you support exclusive voting, because it helps your candidate? that's just sick.

[Cha]

40. You are so in denial...a politician who

made up a whole story about being under Sniper Fire when she flew into Bosinia and now she has the military pissed at her too. hilary is a coniving loser who's too damn dumb to know people check videos of certain landings in Tuzla. Sinbad tried to help her remember but she dismissed him as just a comedian when she's the :+

"Bosnia story fuels perception of dishonesty of ClintonBy Kathy Miller | The Hillary Project

By: Russell Goldman

ABC News - Sen. Hillary Clinton is dodging bullets. Not from Bosnian snipers but political opponents and pundits who have assailed her recent "misstatements" about a trip to Bosnia 12 years ago.

An apparent contradiction in statements Clinton made about a 1996 trip to Bosnia as first lady, which she claimed last week included the threat of sniper fire before later recanting, has raised the specter of dishonesty and untrustworthiness that has plagued her campaign from its beginning.

The backlash put Clinton on the defensive early this week, and not for the first time. Her campaign dealt with a perception of dishonesty long before the Bosnia trip became an issue.

In a USA Today/Gallup poll from March 16, 44 percent of Americans polled called Clinton "honest and trustworthy," compared to 67 percent and 63 percent respectively for Sen. John McCain, R–Ariz., and Sen. Barack Obama, D–Ill.

In an ABC News exit poll after the most recent primary March 11, half of Mississippi Democratic voters said Clinton was not honest and trustworthy. By contrast, 70 percent of voters found Obama honest and trustworthy votes.

Part of Clinton's perceived untrustworthiness no doubt stems from her association with her husband, former President Clinton, who was embroiled in a 1998 sex scandal with White House intern Monica Lewinsky."

<conclusion>
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=108x128063

[northzax]

66. so it is your belief

that every story told by senator obama is 100 percent accurate? So the government of canada is lying? As is his former foreign policy guru? And was he intending to leave wright's church or not? And did senator obama know he would have voted against iwr, or not? So confusing.

If you really think that every single thing obama, or any politician has told you is the complete, unvarnished truth, you are in for a rude awakening, amigo.

[rainbow4321]

44. Speaking as an ex- night shift worker (8 yrs) and a current single mom (for 12 yrs)

You'd be amazed at how creative we are when we want to get something done that really means something to us. Caucuses are not adult only venues, we had a bunch of kids at our site. None were mine since she is a teenager now but when her driving school drive time conflicted with me being at the caucus that night, she caught a ride home with a friend so I could stay at the caucus..back up plan was our neighbor offering her a ride home.

And for night shift workers (11p-7a) have plenty of time in the evening to do stuff "before work". They get more done before work than a person who works 8-5 Monday thru Friday does. 7pm til 7 am (my old shift) means you get four nights off each week and if ya know ahead of time about a night that you need off to do something, you hand a request for that night off. The TX primary night was no state secret. Even 3 til 11 workers get 2 nights off each week. Again, requesting which 2 nights those are is not all that difficult if you know ahead of time (in this case, it was MONTHS notice).


Out of curiosity, anyone have quotes or video of HRC or BC outrage over caucusing from Bill Clinton's campaign time? No? Didn't think so.
Gotta love their new found "concern" over people not being able to make it to a caucus.

[crispini]

56. Thank you!

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[northzax]

67. sure, and almost everyone, if they really cared

could pay a $25 poll tax, right? So why'd we stop those? And almost everyone, if they really cared, could get a government issued photo id to vote, so why oppose that?

The point is to make it easier for people to vote, not harder. Right? We want to include people in the process, not exclude them?

[roguevalley]

46. crap. they are there. don't carp about the rules in the middle of the

game. they were fine enough for a zillion years until now? I call crap.

[northzax]

61. and here I thought I said

that the rules stand and that I hope the party changes them for next time. Guess you missed that part. There has never been such a divide between caucus and primary results, we should be constantly looking for ways to improve access to voting, right? It's time to get rid of superdelegates and caucuses.

[tbyg52]

60. That's not the point, because if it were,

they'd be talking about changing the system *in the future*. But they're not, they're talking about changing it *now*, and did not start doing so until it became obvious they were losing. I've never seen so much attempted goalpost moving in my life, and I'm sick of it.

[northzax]

68. who's talking about changing it now?

I haven't heard that. Oh right, the same people who say the superdelegtes (another antiquated relic that is undemocratic) should vote to ratify the delegate leader, not whomeve they want to.

[JackORoses]

75. it's a damned shame that Hillarites aren't dedicated enough to turn out for her at Caucuses

but that's what happens when you run a name recognition campaign,
your support is wide, but shallow. no roots, just grass.

[rainbow4321]

43. Funny how they were democratic enough in TX for Bill Clinton

back when he WON them....and NOW all of a sudden HRC is trashing the TX system (same TX system that a Clinton supporter helped create).

Anyone in the media question them WHY they didn't challenge the system back then? Wish they would stop acting like the hybrid system is NEW!
This ain't their first time to this rodeo, they've been thru it twice already!

[northzax]

71. and that was wrong

the mitigating factor being that the results of the primary and that of the caucus were identical, so the caucuses could be seen as more of an afffirmation of the primary results, not an overturning of them. And, of course, past acceptance of injustice doesn't stop someone from acting now, right?

[KittyWampus]

77. the proper rebuttal- are Field Goals real points in football?

[thevoiceofreason]

2. And on their conference call yesterday afternoon, their operatives still don't know the process

They were telling precinct alternates that even if they weren't seated, they might still get to go to state. That is 100% wrong.

They'll probably end up with a bunch of really pissed off supporters. Or just a few. Also, from their lame, serial credentials challenges, they obviously haven't taken the time to learn the written rules.

GOBAMA

[DrFunkenstein]

6. The Media Rarely Gives Obama Credit For Grassroots Organization

They think that he somehow just magically wins caucuses.

[redqueen]

11. I've heard some disturbing stuff

from a lady who was elected as a delegate to her county convention. She was told that all the delegates had to support the same candidate at the state convention.

Cute, huh?

[crispini]

16. Mmmm, well, technically

if you aren't seated at SD, you can try the at-large route, but that'll be hard this year. :D

[thevoiceofreason]

20. But at-large delegates are chosen only from seated senate district delegates

At least that is the approach adopted by our rules folks (unless you are a PLEO)

[crispini]

22. Oh, yes, you have to be a delegate to the SD.

I misunderstood your post. :D

[stellanoir]

3. Someone on kos had this up the other day. . .

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/27/03842/2974/1019/485117

Another great though unrelated recent article from there.

"Fighting Fire with Water"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/23/152359/094/335/482758

[Coexist]

4. things are going to get hot down there on Saturday.

[thevoiceofreason]

10. I can't wait. I'll be manning the sign in tables along with other credentials committee folks

I would be a shame to have to turn folks away because their challenges were rejected.

[Coexist]

23. let us know how it goes, please.

[blogslut]

5. Saturday shall be an interesting day.

:)

[Scurrilous]

7. K & R

:thumbsup:

[Hutzpa]

15. This is becoming a sand castle

tides coming in...

whoooosh!!!!

[mod mom]

17. KO and NPR already covered this but I guess it's about to be formal. Also watch for changes in OH

as the provisional ballots near the end of counting.

[bunnies]

18. But will the MSM move TX over to the Obama column?

Somehow, I doubt it.

[Stephanie]

19. She is setting records for the most inept campaign in history.

Accidentally invited a reporter onto the conference call? WTF? She has squandered the biggest lead, the most cash, the highest profile, the "inevitability", the supers, all mishandled and ruined. The campaign is FUBAR from the highest level to the smallest detail. Who was the reporter? Unbelievable.

[Diane R]

49. Yet she wants us to trust her to lead us 'from Day One'. Unbelievable.

[Stephanie]

21. LOL! Bill, "the caucuses are killing us."

Despite winning the popular vote in Texas, Hillary Clinton and her advisers are terrified that they’re about to suffer an Al Gore moment by losing in the pledged delegates race to Barack Obama beginning with county conventions on Saturday.

Enter Bill Clinton in a conference call this afternoon to cajole the rank and file to keep fighting for his wife.

“A race this close, every delegate counts,” the former president said in a hasty call with 960 Austin Dems who are backing her, which The Mouth of the Potomac listened to. “The turnout could literally give Hillary the support she needs to win the nomination.”

“We can still win this thing. We’re going to have a big victory in Pennsylvania. It’s going to change the psychology even further, but we need your help,” Clinton said.

About 88,000 county delegates will meet statewide in Texas on Saturday to thin the herd going on to the state convention, where they will divvy up 67 caucus delegates between Clinton and Obama, in addition to the 126 primary delegates already decided.

“I just have to ask you to try one more time to make sure we get the most out of our efforts to get as many of these 67 delegates as we can,” a seemingly exasperated Bill Clinton said in the call. “We just can’t sit it out or stay home - we cannot get tired.”

Clinton said that while his wife has done great in big primary states, “it’s the caucuses that’ve been killing us,” and added that her wins in Texas and Ohio have improved her polling in Pennsylvania and Indiana.

- James Gordon Meek

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dc/2008/03/bubba-begs-texas-delegates-to.html

[Blue_Roses]

25. the caucuses are where the true supporters come in...

like in Texas. So many republicans voted for Hillary in the primary, giving her the edge, but the caucuses is where the true supporters of the candidates came out.

Funny thing is now, with Texas voting laws, the republicans who voted for Hillary can't vote for a republican for a year now.:rofl:

[Stephanie]

26. Are you serious?

OMG that is hysterical!

[Cha]

30. Wow! I heard they couldn't vote down

ticket for repubs that day and they were pissed..but a whole year?

Did freakin' limpbaughs bother to mention that to them when he told his ditto butts to vote for hilary?

[northzax]

38. they can't vote in a Republican Primary

for a year. since there are none scheduled, it's not a big sacrifice.

[Cha]

29. bil's head is spinning

backwards at 60 rpm.

[ourbluenation]

24. Yours truly pointed this out that night and was dismissed. Just sayin' n/t

[Cha]

32. Pointed what out, onebluenation?

:)

[ourbluenation]

59. That Texas still had to go thru their caucus and that everyone claiming a Clinton victory were pre-

mature.

[Cha]

27. Now, I'm asking myself..why

is bil clinton so "terrified" he's not going back in the white house? Is there something hanging over their heads that they need to get in there at any cost?

[blm]

31. Yes - all those outstanding matters of BushInc's illegal operations that were covered up throughout

the 90s.

Those matters didn't just disappear without the cooperation of a Democratic president.

[Cha]

34. A Dino President... One

can only imagine what Obama and admin will find if we're fortunate enough to actually inaugerate him.

[Nine]

33. I find this unethical.

But I know I'll get plenty of rationalizations about it from Obama supporters. I'm not in the mood for some deep philosophical discussion; I know right from wrong and so do all of you. I just hope no one ever accidentally lets a reporter see your private medical information or anything else private of yours.

Anyway, I don't find anything in this conversation that earth-shattering. "Terrified" and "exasperated" are just spin words; I don't see it.

[NashVegas]

42. A DUer Posted the Phone Number and Password of the Conference Call Yesterday

They went back and XXXXed it after I pointed out they were assisting potential wire fraud. But who's to say it wasn't too late?

[Nine]

45. That's... unfortunate.

:-(

[gimberly]

35. Hillary = an incredibly poor loser

I mean that in the nicest way possible.

[madrchsod]

41. she is going to lose texas

and pa is really looking bad...even if she wins she won`t get enough delegates.

with harris and bettis on the obama`s bus for the next few days, hillary`s advantage is slipping away.

[RBInMaine]

52. Unless team-Clinton pulls dirty tricks, Obama WILL win the overall MAJORITY of TX delegates !!

[graycem]

72. Some tried but I think that

dedication paid off. I just read this from another blog. It's a diary about what happened tonight at a particular caucus site.



Melody Townsel's diary :: ::
Unlike Kath, I was largely unable to take photos because my credentials were challenged. Along with the credentials of a large swath of the elected delegates.

After six or so extremely hot, crowded, confusing hours, many of us were unable to determine why, exactly, our credentials had been challenged. The Clinton camp had announced that they were targeting the 23rd district for credentials challenges and, by god, that's what they did.

"By the end, the Clinton folks were willing -- hell, eager -- to throw out not just randon individuals but the entire delegation of 2 precincts. (So much for voter enfranchisement, eh, Hills?)

The protest process was tailor-made for alienating committed voters, wearing them out to the point where they would drop out. By the end of the night, the convention floor was abuzz with tired, pissed-off voters who now hate Hillary with the fire of a thousand suns.

I'm one of them. Thanks for sucking those 10 or so hours away from me, Hills. Love ya. Mean it.

In the end, the Hillary camp did successfully win challenges on 22 delegates. Out of a total of 2,650. When the announcement came, we calculated that the 10-hour delay of the start of our convention averaged roughly a successful challenge only every 30 minutes.

So we stayed. Surprise, Hillary! Not a single delegate OR ALTERNATE left early from my precinct, which meant that the delegation not continuing on to state spent 12 hours making the Texas delegate count official."

And, in response to why delegates were being challenged:

"When we tried to check in for credentials, we were told we had been challenged. My name was on a list that indicated that I needed to leave the stadium grounds and head for the junior high across the street where my credentials "would be verified."

Enormous confusion, three floors of junior-high-school, five rooms, and two computer data-base checks, I was told I had been "cleared" to participate. I got a fresh print and, thereafter, was able to pull my credentials.

It took me four hours to get my paperwork, and another hour to work my way through the crowd, down the elevator in my wheelchair and back to the convention floor. Then, another hour to get my credentials. And I was one of the quick ones.

The one thing I can tell you is that ALL of the challenges were against Obama delegates."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/30/15757/2729/63/477945

[ElsewheresDaughter]

53. the texas 2 step....Hillary won the 1 primary vote that counts.

[RBInMaine]

54. SILLY post. When she loses the OVERALL delegates tomorrow, the news will be BIG !

[AmericanUnity]

57. Ya. The Dems won't win Texas in the fall, so what't the big deal HILLARY?

[thevoiceofreason]

58. Actually, that is a bad approach

With a 50 state full court press, in Texas we stand to pick up some down-ticket wins for the first time in decades. But if Hillary runs, we have 0, that means zero, chance.

[thevoiceofreason]

55. Held a bar-b-que tonight for my precinct;s Barack delegates

We are ready to go. We'll take al of our precinct delegate allotment -- no vote wasting here. All our alternates will be there in case the Hillary folks don't show up, although I bet they will. Still, I expect our district to go 2-1 for Barack (from what I have seen at credentials). And we're a big district.

[Kukesa]

63. Hooray! Good work. n/t

[mmonk]

73. Texas is quite interesting with its reward system for past elections.

I guess it brings forth incentives to be organized in general elections as far as democrats go. While some of it may make sense in loyalty terms, I'm glad for my state's simple system.

[Orsino]

76. "Terrified"?

The story, by the way, says the "campaign is terrified," not Bill. The Big Dawg, and anyone in the campaign who cared about the caucuses knew that they would break more or less in this way.

All they're scared of is the "Obama won Texas" meme's seeing the light right now, at a critical time when Hillary can't produce any more wins to distract from it.