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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 04:28 PM
Original message
Hillary: "You don't choose your family, but you choose what church you want to attend."
First, let's run through a series of comments by Rev. Calvin Butts, who endorsed Hillary.

Butt's before the UN:

Regarding the conflation of Islam with terrorism, while certain types of Christianity –- responsible for heinous acts of terrorism in the United States –- were not so associated, Mr. BUTTS stressed that a bigoted view of the world, in which what was different was feared, had influenced that association. There was also an aspect of racism, he added. Muslims –- whether they liked it or not -- were identified by Americans as people of colour. If they could not be labelled as “niggers”, they would be labelled as “terrorists”.

However, Mr. FELDMAN, while clarifying that he was not apologizing for the United States, stressed the importance of acknowledging that, statistically, Americans did not think that Muslims were all terrorists. It was an unfair generalization.

In concluding comments, Ms. AL-HIBRI said that acknowledging the history of discrimination in the United States remained part of figuring out the solution to the problem. Why would one think that Americans had shorter memories than any other people? Only when that history of discrimination was recognized would one be able to challenge it.

Mr. BUTTS stressed the importance of reaching out at the grass-roots level to raise awareness. The absence here of many American Muslims and African Muslims spoke to the issue of race, and must be tackled by both American Christians, but also adherents of Islam. He also noted that there were many feelings and expressions that were not necessarily articulated in open forums for all to embrace; many Americans would not acknowledge their own racism. Thus, the conclusions developed by some surveys did not speak to the actual phenomena driving the United States today. He also wished to affirm that those with access to the media and halls of power had not arrived at that juncture by speaking at the United Nations, but by taking action to make the United States and the world recognize the brutality and oppression visited upon African Americans. The call for Muslim coalitions voiced by Imam Rauf earlier must be forwarded, not violently, but aggressively.

Mr. APPLEBY said that those participating here today must hold their fellow Americans to the highest of ideals. Revisiting the topic of anti-Catholicism in the nineteenth century, he noted the emergence of “Americanizers” who had sought to highlight the congruence between principles of democracy and Catholicism. They had advocated for greater integration of Catholics in schools and public life. He also noted that his children had a much greater awareness of civil rights and related African-American history due to a focused national effort to incorporate that part of American history in national curriculums following upon the civil rights successes.

link


NYC politics:

"At that point, I told him: 'Go to hell, white man.'"

Mr. Butts, whose political alliances include Gov. George E. Pataki but exclude more outspoken black leaders like the Rev. Al Sharpton, delivered the first blow to Mr. Giuliani during an interview Tuesday night on the New York 1 television station. When asked whether he was calling the Mayor a racist, Mr. Butts answered:

''Yes. I don't believe that he likes black people, and I believe that there's something fundamentally wrong in the way we are disregarded, the way we are mistreated, and the way our communities are being devastated.''

Mr. Butts expanded on his assertions yesterday during a press conference at his Harlem church, the Abyssinian Baptist Church. He cited a series of examples that he asserted reflected racist policies of the Giuliani administration, from the recent layoff of 600 low-level workers at the city-owned Harlem Hospital to the crackdown on taxi drivers to several incidents in which the police mistakenly burst into the apartments of innocent people in search of illegal drug-dealing.

''If these policies are not checked, and if the people who enjoy democratic liberties do not speak up and out, we could see ourselves moving toward a fascist state in New York,'' Mr. Butts said.

When asked about having labeled the Mayor a racist, he said: ''I said I believe the Mayor doesn't like black people. I thought long and hard and I said yes.''

link


Butts on Farrakhan:

Mr. Butts also has problems reaching out for support in the Jewish community, even among liberals who could be crucial to his effort to broaden his base of support. The issue boiled over last December when a third of the members of the New York Philharmonic, most of them Jewish, refused to play an annual concert at Mr. Butts's church because of the minister's refusal to repudiate a black Muslim leader, Louis Farrakhan. Mr. Farrakhan has called Judaism a ''gutter religion.''

In the interview in his office, Mr. Butts said that he did not agree with Mr. Farrakhan's remarks on Judaism, but that he did support some of his positions, including the need for more black-owned business and stronger black families.

''No one ever asked about what I thought about Farrakhan's remarks, they never asked,'' he said. ''You know what they asked? 'Will you denounce Farrakhan?' ''

Mr. Butts continued: ''All I'm saying to the Jewish community is, don't dictate to me. I understand your anger. I'm not a fool. I don't hate Jewish people. In fact, I quite respect what the Jewish people have done. But please don't make me a boy and tell me what to do.''

link


Rev. Calvin Butts weighs in on Barack's pastor Jeremiah Wright

The Rev. Calvin Butts weighed in Sunday on the controversial statements by a preacher tied to Sen. Barack Obama, defending the maligned minister's right to criticize America.

Still, in his Easter homily, the leader of Harlem's Abyssinian Baptist Church sought to distance himself from the "pretty strong" language used by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. "Jeremiah Wright said some uncharacteristically ugly things because this nation has been uncharacteristically ugly towards black people," Butts said.

"Being critical of America, that is nothing to condemn someone about," Butts continued. "There have been black and white preachers who have been critical of America."

But, he said, "What (Wright) said about America, that was a little strong coming from the pulpit. ... You can't just cuss like that from the pulpit."

link


Now, a note about Butts and Hillary:

In mid-January 2008, Clinton received an important endorsement from Rev. Calvin O. Butts III, pastor of the Abyssinian Baptist Church of Harlem and a prominent black leader. But this endorsement is tainted by the fact that Clinton provided $1,431,500 in earmarks in the 2008 federal budget for Butts' Abyssinian Development Corporation and its youth and social service programs. Earmarks create at least the appearance of political patronage for nonprofit groups. In order to get money from politicians, these organizations must play the political game of offering their endorsements. Because earmarks are the arbitrary decisions of members of Congress, leaders of nonprofit groups are reluctant to risk losing a valuable source of free money.

link


Hillary has the nerve to assail Rev. Wright

Hillary invoked Imus:

"He would not have been my pastor," Clinton said. "You don't choose your family, but you choose what church you want to attend."...

The Clinton campaign has refrained from getting involved in the controversy, but Clinton herself, responding to a question, denounced what she said was "hate speech."

"You know, I spoke out against Don Imus (who was fired from his radio and television shows after making racially insensitive remarks), saying that hate speech was unacceptable in any setting, and I believe that," Clinton said. "I just think you have to speak out against that. You certainly have to do that, if not explicitly, then implicitly by getting up and moving."

link

Oh no she didn't!

We managed to get our hands on a fascinating fundraising invite for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's presidential campaign. The event is set for March 31 in Pinecrest, Florida. The host? "Superproducer" Timbaland. Yes, that Timbaland. The hip-hop producer is joining forces with real-estate developer (and Democratic fundraiser extraordinaire) Chris Korge as well as former President Bill Clinton for the event. Members of the "host committee" are asked to raise $5,000 and the minimum contribution is $1,000.

link


From Clinton, Hip-Hop Hypocrisy

By Colbert I. King
Saturday, April 21, 2007; Page A17

Put me in the camp of those who implore Sen. Hillary Clinton to give it back -- "it" being the reported $800,000 that's sitting in her presidential campaign coffers thanks to a fundraiser hosted in her honor March 31 in the Pinecrest, Fla., home of a huge Clinton fan who refers to himself as Timbaland.

In response to my questions, Clinton campaign spokesman Blake Zeff said in an e-mail this week that it cost $1,000 just to get into Timbaland's fundraiser, that about 200 guests were on hand and that the senator was accompanied by former president Bill Clinton.

You would not be reading about Clinton or about Timbaland -- who entered this vale of tears 36 years ago in Norfolk under the name Timothy Mosley -- were it not for the fact that he is a well-heeled hip-hop producer and noted performer of the kind of misogynistic and denigrating lyrics that informed Don Imus's derogatory comments about the Rutgers women's basketball team.

Mrs. Clinton, you may recall, took umbrage at Imus's remarks, branding them "small-minded bigotry and coarse sexism." His words, she said in an e-mail to supporters, "showed a disregard for basic decency and were disrespectful and degrading to African Americans and women everywhere."

Good for her, I say, except it must be asked why she was down in Florida making nice to -- and pocketing big bucks from -- a rapper whose obscenity-laced lyrics praise violence, perpetuate racist stereotypes and demean black women.

Check out Timbaland's latest album, "Timbaland Presents Shock Value."

Here are lyrics from the track "Come and Get Me":

"Nigga Your Time Is Up, I Aint Come To Kid You
I Knew You Niggas Was Dumb, But How Dumb Is You . . .
I'm A Ride Or Die Nigga, I Be Tearing Up
We Aint Like Them Other Fools, Who Don't Compare To Us
All The Hoes Love A Nigga, They be Backing It Up
But Me I Love Money I Be Stacking It Up . . .
I'm Rich I Can Pay To Have You Six Feet Deep (Nigga)"


And from his track "Kill Yourself":

" . . . most of u rap niggas is hoes to me,
wherever u from
the question I ask
is do u think I give a . . .
u mad at me? cuz im getting rich,
well put the pistol to ur head and empty the clip, pop nigga!"


And how about this little ditty, "Considerate Brotha," from an earlier recording:

". . . Hoes coming up short? Hoes finna get cursed out!
. . . Slam the mask out of these hoes and they say, 'What is that, velvet?'
And they betta meet they quota, betta yet betta meet they deadline . . . I'm a pimp all around
A pimp of the town -- we pimpin 'em up, HOES DOWN."


It could not be determined whether Timbaland shared his musical talents with the Clintons while they were in his home collecting money.

This much I do know: If Hillary Clinton wasn't playing a hypocrite in the Don Imus episode and is, in fact, a leader who matches her lofty ideals with stand-up behavior, she should return the $800,000 Timbaland raised for her at his swank affair.

more

(emphasis added)

"You don't choose your family, but you choose what (fund raiser) you want to attend."

Where are Hillary's 2000 to 2006 tax returns, earmark and donor lists, and the list of donors to the Clinton library.

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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. When did she say this?
I thought she backed off after introducing the topic when she was explaining her sleep-deprivation-induced memory.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. ..


:evilgrin:
rocknation
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. HIllary has shown herself to be the scum we all knew her to be.
ethically and morally, there is no difference between her and bush.
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Words like these do nothing to advance anyone or anything.
Senator Clinton is not "scum". She is a strong, committed and inspiring DEMOCRAT who is running for the office of President of the United States. Calling her names does not advance Obama's cause, our party's cause, or the tenor of the debate on DU.

Please stop. Thanks.

(Hate to hit and run, but have an event to attend. Will be back later.)
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. But it's okay to vilify another Democrat....
every single day, for three weeks running? What a difference! Why is that?
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. No it is not okay and there is no difference.
That is exactly my point. I have said and I will continue to say that I am determined to be excited about our candidate. I have not nor will I choose sides between our two, because I might get stuck with the other one. Calling names won't change minds, and you might consider (be honest) that it doesn't even make you feel better. It's counter-productive, so why resort to it?

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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. she's right. you can choose your church.
obama has chosen his. it wouldn't be my choice. i'm an atheist, but i respect the right of everyone to make their own choice.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Religion shouldn't even enter into a
presidential campaign. Maybe Hillary should be reading the constitution.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. he introduced the subject, sorry
he's a lawyer, he knows full well that when someone else introduces a subject, they are open to cross on it. If you talk about your faith as a campaign issue, then it is fair to ask questions about it.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. Who introduced religion?
December 10, 2007
Third Clinton Volunteer Knew Of Smear E-Mail

A third volunteer for Hillary Clinton's campaign was aware of a propaganda e-mail alleging that Barack Obama is a Muslim who plans on "destroying the U.S. from the inside out. "Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential Candidacy," the email reads. "Please forward to everyone you know. The Muslims have said they Plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at The highest level."

Two Clinton volunteers, Linda Olson and Judy Rose, have already been asked to resign from the campaign for their roles in forwarding the e-mail. The AP reported yesterday that Olson, a volunteer coordinator in Iowa County, sent a version of the e-mail to 11 people, including Ben Young, a regional field director for Chris Dodd's campaign. Young passed it on to the AP.

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/12/third_clinton_v.html


Kerrey Apologizes to Obama Over Remark
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=4031436
Kerrey's mention of Obama's middle name and his Muslim roots raised eyebrows because they are also used as part of a smear campaign on the Internet that falsely suggests Obama is a Muslim who wants to bring jihad to the United States.
Obama is a Christian.
The Clinton campaign has already fired two volunteer county coordinators in Iowa for forwarding hoax e-mails with the debunked claim. Last week, a national Clinton campaign co-chairman resigned for raising questions about whether Obama's teenage drug use could be used against him, so Kerrey's comments raised questions about whether the Clinton campaign might be using another high-profile surrogate to smear Obama.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. you are absolutely right.
i think the religion thing started with jimmy carter. now we hear about it all the time.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong about this, but wasn't it the media, not Carter,
who made such a big deal out of his religion? I know that a lot of attention was focused on his church attendance and teaching a Sunday school class, but Carter just saw that as part of his being and didn't really try to capitalize on it. It seems that it was Reagan that made religion such an important point in politics and that's when the mainstream preachers started getting involved.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. you might be right.
i always remember the interview with jimmy carter where he said "he lusted in his heart".
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grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. You can choose your spouse though.
Just sayin'.
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Exactly.
So I have no idea what point Hillary is attempting to make with that stupid one-liner.

Oh wait. It's a Hillary one liner. So there is no point.
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grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. That's what I was wondering. Unless she's going to tell us it was an arranged marriage
I don't see how her argument makes any sense.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. wait, Hillary attended services at Butts' church
regularly? Wow, I must ask for evidence of this, since it is what you are implying in your subject.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Where does it say that? n/t
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. the subject title
is Clinton saying 'you choose your church' you then discuss a pastor. The clear implication is that Hillary chose that congregation. Otherwise, your subject is completely irrelevant to your post. She didn't say 'you choose your supporters' or 'you choose your donors' she said 'you choose your church.' the only way that is relevant is if you were taking about her church. Words matter.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. The post is about choice and hypocrisy, and you need to read it to the end, not just the title.
The title could easily have been: Hillary's $800,000 hypocrisy!

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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
37. the title is about choosing a church
the post is not. It's really that simple. Titles should reflect what the post is about, it's why we have titles. Yours doesn't. It is misleading and disingenuous at best. At worst, it could be read as being an effort to deliberatly imply that Pastor Butt is Hillary Clinton's chosen pastor, and she is a congregant of his. Now I get that you would rather turn over dictatorial powers to Pol Pot than say something nice about Hillary, we get that. So it's tough to consider that this was anything but deliberate obfuscation of the truth.

Of course, if your position is that Hillary's spiritual leader was pastor Butt, and that we should consider his views to reflect hers, then we must hold senator obama to the same standard no? Since he's been closely linked to a homophobic preacher as well as an antisemitic one, what would you have me think of him in that light?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. The OP is extremely clear. It says nothing about her church. The title is Hillary's quote. The end:
Edited on Fri Mar-28-08 10:44 PM by ProSense
"You don't choose your family, but you choose what (fund raiser) you want to attend."


Or change the word in parentheses to "earmark," you want to award.

Obvious! Get it?




edited typos


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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #40
46. ah, so what you're saying is
your post implied a different meaning from the quote than the obvious one? That you were, in fact, trying to make it seem as if the quote meant something else? You can't paraphrase a quote to change the meaning, that's a bit off, don't you think?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #46
51. No, choice is choice. Did Hillary choose to attend a Timbaland fundraiser
Edited on Wed Apr-02-08 08:31 AM by ProSense
or was she forced to? Did she choose to give earmarks to Rev. Butts' church or was she forced to?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. And don't forget the crypto-nazi fundie Doug Coe
who heads Hillary's cultist prayer group.
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Cheap_Trick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
15. here's the church hillary chooses to attend
from The Nation
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080331/ehrenreich

and Mother Jones
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillary...

>snip<
Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer."

>snip<

Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family"), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.

>snip<

The Fellowship's long-term goal is "a leadership led by God—leaders of all levels of society who direct projects as they are led by the spirit." According to the Fellowship's archives, the spirit has in the past led its members in Congress to increase U.S. support for the Duvalier regime in Haiti and the Park dictatorship in South Korea. The Fellowship's God-led men have also included General Suharto of Indonesia; Honduran general and death squad organizer Gustavo Alvarez Martinez; a Deutsche Bank official disgraced by financial ties to Hitler; and dictator Siad Barre of Somalia, plus a list of other generals and dictators. Clinton, says Schenck, has become a regular visitor to Coe's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters, a former convent where Coe provides members of Congress with sex-segregated housing and spiritual guidance.

>snip<

Throughout her time at the White House, Clinton writes in Living History, she took solace from "daily scriptures" sent to her by her Fellowship prayer cell, along with Coe's assurances that she was right where God wanted her. (Clinton's sense of divine guidance has been noted by others: Bishop Richard Wilke, who presided over the United Methodist Church of Arkansas during her years in Little Rock, told us, "If I asked Hillary, 'What does the Lord want you to do?' she would say, 'I think I'm called by the Lord to be in public service at whatever level he wants me.'")

>snip<

These days, Clinton has graduated from the political wives' group into what may be Coe's most elite cell, the weekly Senate Prayer Breakfast. Though weighted Republican, the breakfast—regularly attended by about 40 members—is a bipartisan opportunity for politicians to burnish their reputations, giving Clinton the chance to profess her faith with men such as Brownback as well as the twin terrors of Oklahoma, James Inhofe and Tom Coburn, and, until recently, former Senator George Allen (R-Va.). Democrats in the group include Arkansas Senator Mark Pryor, who told us that the separation of church and state has gone too far; Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is also a regular.

>snip<

Clinton has championed federal funding of faith-based social services, which she embraced years before George W. Bush did; Marci Hamilton, author of God vs. the Gavel, says that the Clintons' approach to faith-based initiatives "set the stage for Bush." Clinton has also long supported the Defense of Marriage Act, a measure that has become a purity test for any candidate wishing to avoid war with the Christian right.

>snip<

Sean Hannity has called Obama's church a "cult," but that term applies far more aptly to Clinton's "Family," which is organized into "cells"--their term--and operates sex-segregated group homes for young people in northern Virginia. In 2002, Sharlet joined The Family's home for young men, forswearing sex, drugs and alcohol, and participating in endless discussions of Jesus and power. He wasn't undercover; he used his own name and admitted to being a writer. But he wasn't completely out of danger either. When he went outdoors one night to make a cell phone call, he was followed. He still gets calls from Family associates asking him to meet them in diners--alone.

>snip<

At the heart of The Family's American branch is a collection of powerful right-wing politicos, who include, or have included, Sam Brownback, Ed Meese, John Ashcroft, James Inhofe and Rick Santorum. They get to use The Family's spacious estate on the Potomac, The Cedars, which is maintained by young men in Family group homes and where meals are served by The Family's young women's group. And, at The Family's frequent prayer gatherings, they get powerful jolts of spiritual refreshment, tailored to the already powerful.

>snip<

Furthermore, The Family takes credit for some of Clinton's rightward legislative tendencies, including her support for a law guaranteeing "religious freedom" in the workplace, such as for pharmacists who refuse to fill birth control prescriptions and police officers who refuse to guard abortion clinics.

>snip<

Sharlet generously attributes Clinton's involvement to the under-appreciated depth of her religiosity, but he himself struggles to define The Family's theological underpinnings. The Family avoids the word Christian but worships Jesus, though not the Jesus who promised the earth to the "meek." They believe that, in mass societies, it's only the elites who matter, the political leaders who can build God's "dominion" on earth. Insofar as The Family has a consistent philosophy, it's all about power--cultivating it, building it and networking it together into ever-stronger units, or "cells." "We work with power where we can," Doug Coe has said, and "build new power where we can't."





Talk about a fucking cult.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
18. Where are all the Erica Jongs and Gloria Steinems in their misogyny outrage?
Edited on Fri Mar-28-08 06:27 PM by ProSense
As long as there are donations involved for Hillary it's OK?

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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Did You See Erica Jong Call Obama a "Stallion" and Clinton a "Beaver"?
I saw this on the Huffington Post and my jaw dropped.

"We have two great candidates--one a hard working, never give up eager beaver, and one an inspiring, heart-leapingly brilliant stallion. Both have their merits.

The stallion makes heart-stopping speeches. And the beaver just beavers along. remembering how she won over upstate New York when everyone called that impossible. And called her a carpetbagger. And the stallion is drunk on his own rhetoric. Why not? It's great rhetoric.

We need beavers and we need stallions. Beavers get the work done. Stallions inspire us. And they both have limitations. Stallions have fragile legs (think Barbaro). And beavers are nothing without their teeth."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/erica-jong/why-am-i-so-afraid_b_92876.html



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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Where did I put that
shakes head smiley?

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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
19. K&R
:kick:
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
21. You choose a husband who lies and won't shut his trap.
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Bensthename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
25. And up goes her negative ratings.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
27. Is Senator Clinton a member of Reverend Butts' congregation or has he only endorsed her?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. "First, let's run through a series of comments by Rev. Calvin Butts, who endorsed Hillary."
No, it doesn't say in the OP that she is a member of his congregation.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. So it sounds like Reverend Butts chose Hillary more than she chose him.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Did Butts award his church the earmarks? n/t
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
30. YES SlickHILLY, you CHOOSE your SPOUSE, and you CHOSE to stand by your cheating man !
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #30
39. she chose her family
and you condemn her for it? How sick are you?
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
33. who chose Carville and Lanny?
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
34. The Fellowship....
Not a good story for Hilary if she wants to play the "Religion Card"....

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AmericanUnity Donating Member (342 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
35. HILLARY: I saved No. Ireland, sniper fire in Bosnia, ALWAYS opposed NAFTA, BWAAAAAA
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Hoof Hearted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
38. What she said is exactly correct.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. And Timbaland? n/t
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Hoof Hearted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #41
49. I repeat myself. Everything Hillary said about Wright and the church was correct.
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RememberWellstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
42. 20 years does not = endorsement
Sitting under a man as your mentor for 20 years is not the same a someone endorsing you politically. Of course you knew that before you posted this OP.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. And Timbaland? n/t
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
43. Projection
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Where is Hillary's tax return and earmarks list? n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
47. Any other Timbaland fans (other than Hillary)? n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. Never did get an answer to this question. n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
48. Nutter in the Gutter

Nutter in the Gutter

by BooMan
Sat Mar 29th, 2008 at 07:09:33 PM EST
I know Michael Nutter and I like him very much. Which is why I find it so painful to see him pimp himself out to the Clintons in an utterly lost cause. That he would be a party to the attempted political race-assassination of Barack Obama is beyond disappointing. It's unforgivable. And I'll tell him that the next time I see him.


Posted on Mon, Dec. 17, 2007

Heard in the Hall

Before Clinton, Nutter favored Obama

Mayor-elect Michael Nutter last week wholeheartedly threw his support behind Hillary Clinton in next year's presidential race.

"Philadelphia, we need a friend in the White House," he said at an Electric Factory fund-raiser for the New York senator, before a crowd of about 1,000 people - including former President Bill Clinton.

That might be.

But several months earlier, Nutter left the distinct impression that Philadelphia might need a different friend.

At a mayoral forum at Central High School in Philadelphia last February, each of the five Democrats running in the primary was asked to predict the next president.

Nutter's answer: "I'll go out on a limb. Sen. (Barack) Obama." His response triggered a round of applause and whoops from the young audience.

Of course, that was before the Illinois senator distributed an e-mail to the supporters of U.S. Rep. Chaka Fattah, one of Nutter's rivals in the race, asking them to contribute to Fattah's campaign committee.

Asked last week about why it was Obama then and Clinton now, Nutter said: "That was during the election campaign, and I certainly wish him well. I wish him the best. That's what campaigns are about. They evolve over time."




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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
50. Rap expert?
Edited on Sun Mar-30-08 10:33 PM by ProSense
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
53. If Reverend Wright is such a horrible being, why was he invited
to the White House to counsel Bill after the Lewinsky affair? Why did Bill allow his picture to be taken with Rev. Wright and why did the President send a lovely thank you letter? Surely, if for 30 years Rev. Wright has been anything like the tape that is played and replayed, the Clintons would have known about it. As Sally Quinn noted, if you cooked up a similar tape showing Bill Clinton during the Lewinsky scandal, lying on camera and under oath, hugging Monica in the rope line, etc., etc., and played it nonstop every day, some people would assume all of Bill Clinton's life amounted to lying, chasing skirts and being unfaithful to his wife. "You don't choose your family" - somehow I think my husband would have been unchosen by me if he'd messed around as many times as Bill Clinton, but that's another matter.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. I guess because he
is anti-American?
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