ALERT: CLINTON CAMPAIGN SEEMS TO BE USING ROBO-CALLS TO TELL TX DEL CONVENTIONS CANCELLED!

[Dems Will Win]

No doubt Mark Penn and Howard Wolfson at work again!

Dear fellow Democrat,

In recent weeks, the Texas Democratic Party has seen an unprecedented surge in participation, particularly in our Convention process. Thanks to our two outstanding candidates, Texas saw up to a million people participate in their Precinct Conventions, and we are expecting historic turnout at tomorrow’s County and Senatorial District Conventions.

If you were elected as a delegate or alternate to your County or Senatorial District Convention, make sure to attend tomorrow. You can click here for more information, including a list of convention locations. Thanks to tremendous enthusiasm from grassroots Democrats, I am confident that these Conventions will be an unparalleled success.

Unfortunately, that enthusiasm may sometimes lead people to act irresponsibly. We have heard reports that misinformation is being spread about tomorrow’s County and Senate District Conventions, perhaps using the name of the Texas Democratic Party. Some delegates have reported receiving emails saying that conventions have been cancelled. We have also heard unconfirmed reports that someone is placing robo-calls, claiming to be from the Texas Democratic Party, suggesting that county or district conventions have been cancelled.

The Texas Democratic Party has not been informed that any county or district convention has been cancelled or postponed. If you have heard otherwise, please plan on attending your convention as scheduled unless you receive information from your Democratic County Chair or the official Texas Democratic Party website.

As we begin the next step in the convention process, all eyes are once again on Texas, watching and waiting to see the outcome of our Conventions. I am confident that the vast majority of Democrats will conduct our convention business in the fairest, most professional, and most impartial manner possible, as we work to convert the enthusiasm driving the convention process into Democratic victories from the County Courthouse to the State House to the White House.

Your friend and fellow Democrat,

Boyd L. Richie

http://ruralvotes.com/thefield/?p=961

The TX Dem Party gave the 88,000 state delegate names only to the campaigns! So it was either Obama or Clinton.

According to spokesman Hector Nieto of the Texas Democratic Party, "the information that we gave to the campaigns was information given to us by the individual precincts."

Plus the Clinton campaign used robo-calls in Iowa just before that state convention:

I had reported that Iowa county delegates pledged to Obama were receiving robocalls from the Clinton campaign in the run-up to the coming county conventions (when such delegates can switch their allegiances).

http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/03/28/guess-what-obama-is-not-poaching-delegates-in-texas.aspx

These "mysterious" robo-calls come after the Clintons lost their demand to delay the conventions!

FROM 1776Forever:

Democratic Party Refuses Clinton Request
March 17th, 2008 at 4:49 pm

http://www.texasobserver.org/blog/index.php/2008/03/17/democratic-party-refuses-clinton-request

The Texas Democratic Party this afternoon flatly rejected the Hillary Clinton campaign’s request to delay the county conventions. The Clinton camp claims that volunteers for Barack Obama committed numerous acts of fraud on election night. The campaign had requested a delay to verify that the roughly one million caucus goers on March 4 were eligible to participate.

But the party is having none of it. In a forceful letter released this afternoon, party Chairman Boyd Richie wrote: “Texas Democratic Party will not do as suggested by one campaign and circumvent Party rules to set up an unnecessary, ad hoc ‘verification’ process that could effectively disqualify delegates selected at their precinct conventions after the fact. The Party has never stated any intention to set up a verification process of this nature because Party rules already provide for ‘verification’ through our credentials process. Candidates who wish to disqualify delegates must pursue formal challenges based on evidence filed appropriately in accordance with our party’s rules.”

While conceding the caucuses were not perfect, Richie brushes aside allegations of fraud. “These problems are not unique to Texas. Similar problems, in proportionately similar numbers, occurred in pure caucus states like Iowa and Nevada. The overwhelming majority of problems reported in Texas do not affect the legitimacy of delegate allocation.”

He then states that the county and state conventions will go on as scheduled.

THat's the same guy Boyd Richie who signed the letter above.



IF YOU THINK THIS IS A CLINTON DIRTY TRICK RECOMMEND!

[anonymous171]

1. God, I hate those two fuckers.

[PBS Poll-435]

22. Batshit Crazy Bullshit

I am a delegate to the Sen. Dist Convention and I got the same call. And I assure you, I am not on the Obama delegate list.


Plus my convention is on Sunday because the ineptitude of the party in my area. They couldn't book a fucking Holiday Inn ballroom for a few hours.

[redqueen]

23. They didn't expect crowds like this.

They don't have the biggest budgets, TX Dems.

[PBS Poll-435]

37. Crowds?

There are the same # of potential delegates in each precinct as there was in 04. Fuck the crowds. The people that are there to do what they are there for should be considered first. They want to fuck with the process because they are worried about accomodating the mob? You didn't see them move the Anna Nicole trial outside because they were worried about space for the crowds.

[redqueen]

40. OK, you have a good point.

*sigh*

I really did want to participate this year. :(

[PBS Poll-435]

41. What happened? nt

[redqueen]

44. I was irresponsible.

I moved, and when I went to do the early voting, they asked if I was in the same precinct. I said I didn't know, and (STUPIDLY) assumed that she was checking to make sure... she handed me a ballot and I went to vote... and didn't find out until it was time for the precinct conventions that I had voted in the wrong precinct, and not on a provisional ballot. :(

[PBS Poll-435]

49. I am really sorry to hear that. nt

[redqueen]

53. Thanks...

I'll miss it... but I hope your experience is much more enjoyable from here on out. :hi:

[PBS Poll-435]

130. There will be other years and other times.

I am so glad that people are engaged in the process and the reality that by showing up in an elementary classroom in the spring, you are helping to choose the next President and the trajectory of our nation.

[tammywammy]

42. Actually it's a bit difference

Since it's still a heated race, you know that the delegates for both candidates are going to show up. As opposed to years past when by this point there was only one candidate left and really only their supporters were going to show up.

[PBS Poll-435]

52. Well, who knows who whill show up now...

They shouldn't have messed with the date. It is just like the Rove flyers in Cleveland 04 telling Dems to vote on Wednesday.

[tammywammy]

58. Hopefully the precincts in Collin County

Can get a hold of all their delegates. I've had my precinct call me and my county chair.

I'm sure it was a tough decision for them, but obviously they felt it was more important to have room to accommodate all the delegates and others by moving it one day. :shrug:

[PBS Poll-435]

129. I hope they can too;

For whatever side you are on now, we are all on the same side tomorrow!

[TomBall Democrat]

86. Easy, there - they planned this stuff last year -

and normally - no one showed.

Our SD team is having to dig deep - and fund raise to come up with a few GRAND more.

It's rough to do that with little notice.

these folks have been in the trenches for ages ALONE.

That's why these calls anger me - I have new folks eager to play - and they might be confused.

I've called mine - but something foul is going on here.

We need to find out. Because if it's not her - it's them.

Maybe that would finally give us a common enemy, eh?

[PBS Poll-435]

133. So it is ok to automatically assume that the evil Hillary Clinton is

Plotting against you? Jeez. I can assure you that Hillary and her campaign are not doing anything like you "assumed" they were. Second of all, They have only had three weeks and three days to find an empty bingo hall to run this thing in. They should probably not move the convention to the wrong day (according to the TDP) in order to accommodate disrupters and the like. I will say again. They didn't move the Anna Nicole/Hunt trial outside so that they could better deal with the crowds.

[TomBall Democrat]

138. You're out of line

You said in your post that the local Dems were incompetent.

My point was that before you bitch - you do it.

Get off your Hillary loving ass and organize it yourself.

[PBS Poll-435]

160. They ARE incompetent.

No, I am not out of line. I am also not the county chair. They had plenty of time to work something out. They didn't. Now, nearly everyone that I call is confused. Hillary's people are telling them different things. Obama's people are telling them different things. This is a fiasco.

And to use the ADA and the "crowds" arguement is a total and complete cop-out.

[Baby Snooks]

106. But of course you are committed to Hillary

And so you are committed to this type of Karl Rove politics at its worst. Winning is all. By hook or by crook.

[PBS Poll-435]

131. Dream On, Oh Presumptuous One.....

I feel sad that you can't separate yourself from your chosen candidate to realize that the entire situation is "F"ed Up! I am sure that my candidate, as well as myself, do not condone cheating, rigging, tricks, or anything else like it. I am not the one who changed the day of the convention. Hillary didn't even win my county/senatorial district in the real primary.

[crankychatter]

124. rovian ethics are a national cancer

voter disenfranchisment?

real role models

[PBS Poll-435]

132. Is that a Haiku? nt

[LiberalFighter]

161. I would think that a high school gym could be used.

Provided there aren't other activities scheduled. But would think that 1/2 the high school gyms are available. Even a Junior HS or Middle Grade school should be big enough.

[PBS Poll-435]

162. Exactly.

At least you are thinking! The whole crowd thing is just a cop-out, though. The real intent was to upset the process by switching days, keeping the location unknown to most. What are they trying to pull?

[northzax]

2. can he post one of these 'emails'

of which he speaks? Or not?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

115. seems they could check the "message source"

it isn't shown in the regular email, but can be seen by clicking on
"view message source" on the email program.

The emails could have gone through some sort of anonymizer, but
its still worth checking.

Surely they have done this.

[FatDave]

119. You'd think, but you'd be surprised how few people know this

Even people who should. We geeks should all be working in data forensics I think.

[crankychatter]

144. IF it's true, I think it's voter suppression and a crime

just guessing

I don't think the GOPers from Texas that called and misinformed Democrats
in Ohio in '04, were ever prosecuted.

[msongs]

3. you dont know if it is true yet you post in anyway nt

[texastoast]

4. What makes you think it is Dems doing this?

Boyd didn't say that.

[Dems Will Win]

7. I said "seems to" -- It cannot be Obama, he wants the conventions to happen.

And McCain would not interfere. She has already threatened to challenge the credentials. This is organized and the Dem party itself had to put out this announcement to keep the whole thing on track.

This is the whole MO of the Clinton campaign, using false robo-calling, as they did in NH on choice.

[texastoast]

18. Bush "seems to" be human

But he's a chimp.

Your post is seems to have an element of libel.

Whoever did it, and I'm certainly not going to point an uncertain finger at anyone, apparently took a mucousy page from the Rovian book.

[Kool Kitty]

123. All chimps have told me that they

now hate you. They are easily offended and much smarter than Bush. ;)

[WinkyDink]

38. You wrote "seems to" to imply an opinion other than your own. THAT would be phrased "I THINK", FYI.

[iconicgnom]

128. "seems to" -- "I think"

"You wrote "seems to" to imply an opinion other than your own. THAT would be phrased "I THINK""



Yes, and that's good to keep in mind when all that's seen everywhere is flying mud.

It seems like some kind of axiom that the Democratic candidates *should* prove themselves by busting McCain's ass, and likewise their supporters *should* follow that lead, and whoever strikes low blows against fellow democrats is way out of line.

Here's what's probably a well-known fact that I can't quite get my mind around. By JedReport via Daily Kos:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/24/14518/2213/544/463202

"Hillary Clinton's chief strategist is Mark Penn, and Charlie Black, John McCain's top adviser, is chairman of BKSH, the DC-based lobbying subsidiary of Burson-Marsteller -- of which Mark Penn is CEO.

Yes, this is the same lobbyist Barack Obama was referring to when he criticized John McCain for allowing lobbyists to conduct their business on board his bus."

IMO that fact is decisive. It shows poor judgement. So I know how I'd vote if I were a US citizen.

But also IMO that's all that should matter. I mean, there's no point in wasting bile on recriminations & insanely escalating family spats. Not right when that family needs to be united for battle.

Energy is better spent explaining why the generally coherent and balanced approach (to matters of internal/external social justice) of the Democratic candidate is more worth abiding by than the strictly militaristic approach taken by Bush/McCain.

[dchill]

157. "seems to" & "I THINK" are summarized by....

"As far as I know."

[eridani]

113. If Pigboy could get Rethugs to vote for Clinton, why couldn't the Rethugs be doing this?

For exactly the same reason, of course.

[FatDave]

121. Well, supposedly...

...only the campaigns received the names of the delegates.

Could've been leaked though.

[madrchsod]

5. maybe...could be the thugs

not going to jump until some real proof shows up...

[galaxy21]

6. Hillary is not dumb enough to try something like that

*checks Hillary's behaviour in last few weeks*

Okay, she is.

[havocmom]

8. Some supporters are crazed enough to pull a rovian stunt like this

I find it fascinating that some rabid clintonistas say they will vote for McCain if Hillary is not our nominee and then call Obama supporters a cult.

Projection, another neocon trait we see too much of this campaign season.

You're right. When we check HRC's (and Bill's) behavior recently, hard to rule any stunt out.

[Dems Will Win]

12. This a lot of emails to the delegate list - who had that list of emails and phone numbers

Who else but the Clinton campaign would even be able to get that together and be so organized in their execution?

Then there was the confcall yesterday where Bill warned the TX delegates all could be lost if Obama wins it big. THe NY Daily News listened in by mistake!

The Clintons are "terrified" about tomorrow!

[havocmom]

17. Yep, had to come from somebody in the campaign

Somebody needs to use tranquilizer darts on them.

[anigbrowl]

73. I don't agree...but Penn is that dumb .nt

[JimGinPA]

9. The OP Title Is Pure Speculation & Really A Stretch - You Should Change It...

I scream at Mrs. Clinton's supporters all the time here for this kind of serial conclusion-jumping.

[Dems Will Win]

25. Only the campaigns were give the list of delegates and their numbers and emails

So it was either Obama or Clinton.

According to spokesman Hector Nieto of the Texas Democratic Party, "the information that we gave to the campaigns was information given to us by the individual precincts."

[eridani]

114. And Repugs don't infiltrate?

Your scenario is higher probability, but not yet demonstrated to be fact.

[Brundle_Fly]

151. what possible

purpose could the repukes want to do this?

seems to risky to attempt with little to nothing to gain.

[IndianaGreen]

10. I really gotten to hate Hillary and her Brownshirts!

She and her husband should form their version of the Peronista Party and be gone!

[redqueen]

11. Texas DUers - CALL YOUR FRIENDS & MAKE SURE THEY KNOW!

Geez Louise...like we didn't have enough problems...

*sigh*

[mtnester]

13. how long have you been hiding this up your butt?

because that is where you pulled it from.

Don't puke the word "seems" back at me either like you did upthread to someone else. I call you on your outright made up complete BS insinuated accusation.

No one is fooled at all by your intent.

[Dems Will Win]

19. Oh come on, who else has a motive to do this? (Crickets)

Maybe you think Rush Limbaugh got the e-mails and phone numbers and set this up himself to help Hillary...

[redqueen]

27. The GOP.

The more lingering animosity between Dems in Nov, the better (for them).

[northzax]

36. let's walk the cat back, shall we?

he claims he has 'reports' that people have gotten emails, but doesn't post one so we know what they look like. He claims he has 'reports' that poeple are getting phone calls, but not one person is listed by name. The names of delegates are on the record already, not one person who got a call is willing to put their name to the accusation? This is a crime, you know? If anyone deleted the evidence from their voicemail or inbox, they shouldn't have. These emails should be forwarded to the Texas Rangers or da's office, they are evidence of a crime.

Show me a name of someone who got a call and will sign a criminal complaint. Show me an email. This is a crime, and anyone who doesn't report it is complicit in covering it up.

What? No one will put their name to these accusations of criminal behaviour? How odd.

[TomBall Democrat]

81. It's in the news - and posted by the party....

Reports of phony phone calls to Democratic delegates
March 28, 2008 - 3:28PM
James Osborne
McALLEN - The Texas Democratic Party has received reports of unknown persons calling and e-mailing delegates to incorrectly inform them their county and senate district conventions have been cancelled, said party spokesman Hector Nieto.
Nieto said several delegates had reported incidents to party officials, but he did not know where in Texas they hailed from. He said party officials were investigating who's behind the misinformation campaign.
http://www.themonitor.com/articles/party_10340___article.html/democratic_delegates.html

[TomBall Democrat]

82. early days yet.

This one has legs.

This may be the end of Hillary here.

Hell hath no fury like a pissed off Texas Democrat, baby.

I plan on channeling Molly Ivins, Barbara Jordan, and Ann Richards.

Don't mess with the TEXAS Democratic Party. We don't cotton that NY salsa down here.

[TomBall Democrat]

14. I am now through being nice.

It's on.

Let's go get her - and her little dog, Bill, too.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Cali_Democrat]

15. If this is true, Hillary and Penn should be thrown in jail. nt

[Johnny__Motown]

16. are you suggesting that the Clinton people are doing something dishonest?

If you are...


Thanks for that.....


Recommended the post

[ampad]

20. I believe Clinton is up to this

Recom

[MonkeyFunk]

21. So no evidence at all

just your rampant, unfounded speculation that Clinton's behind this, and the mob jumps on it.

There's no difference between you guys and FreeRepublic.

[redqueen]

24. I don't believe it was the Clinton camp. This would be classic Rove...

divide, divide, divide.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

30. could be both?

[redqueen]

32. Could be aliens.

Occam's razor. :)

[KittyWampus]

48. Rove and the GOP don't have the delegate list.

[redqueen]

50. I can't be sure of that.

They've got their dirty little fingers into all sorts of things they shouldn't have had access to.

[canucksawbones]

89. rethugs

Oh, Carville probably got the list from the Clinton's, he passed to his rethug wife, who is bound at the hip to Rove, so the rethugs could well be doing it, via Clinton's campaign. Carville is a well known traitor.

GK

[VolcanoJen]

92. Actually, that's not a bad point. Carvile leaking to Matalin, it's certainly happened before.

Interesting, canucksawbones!

[MonkeyFunk]

98. An assertion with no evidence

based on one thin tale told by Bob Woodward.

He provides no evidence that Carville "leaked" anything. Why did the campaign inform Carville? He wasn't part of the campaign. Was it supposed to be kept secret? Nobody knows.

Nobody in the campaign has ever made this charge - not even the famously outspoken Teresa Heinz Kerry. But people here believe it without hesitation, just like they believe this bulshit OP without question.

It's mob mentality run amok.

[VolcanoJen]

102. You're right. Carville's such a good guy.

:eyes:

Stop with your "mob mentality" smear... it's growing old, and rusty.

Here's some non-anecdotal evidence that probably makes you uncomfortable... he did Clinton far more harm than good when he dubbed Bill Richardson "Judas." You probably agree with him, but just out of curiousity, how many superdelegates has Hillary picked up since then?

[MonkeyFunk]

104. I think he is a good guy

and most people here did once upon a time, too.

The fact is, you guys fall for and repeat lies time and time again. You do it so often you start to believe them.

There's this thread now with 100 recs that's based on absolutely zero evidence - but it attacks Clinton, so you guys love it.

Mob mentality at its finest.

[VolcanoJen]

107. Well, I used to like Carville, too.

After 2004, not so much. My growing dislike of Carville began the moment he started suggesting that Chairman Dean should be overthrown in favor of one of the DLCers. I'm a Dean-Crashing The Gate-50 States Democrat, so that put me at odds against Carville long, long before Clinton's presidential run.

But speaking of mob mentality... you know Clintonistas have written off John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Caroline Kennedy, Maria Shriver, Keith Olbermann, Bill Richardson and countless others in the name of Clinton Loyalty.

You might call it mob mentality, but in the case of Clinton supporters and the way you've slashed and burned some of our most beloved Dems, most of them actual office holders and public servants rather than loyalist hacks like Carville, well, to me, it resembles illness.

Blind loyalty is treasured by some... but certainly not me.

Edit: Out of morbid curiousity, who do you think is responsible for these emails and robo-calls?

[MonkeyFunk]

109. I certainly haven't written them off

and many here also wrote off Joe Wilson, George McGovern, et. al.

The fact that so many people automatically believe this unfounded smear against Clinton and cheer it on shows a mob mentality.

[VolcanoJen]

111. It goes both ways.

It's a mob mentality, and a fact, that so many Clintonistas (doesn't matter if you weren't among them) wrote off celebrated Dems for the High Crime of not endorsing Hillary Clinton.

I'll defend Joe and Valerie Plame-Wilson and George McGovern (my mother made me wear McGovern buttons to 1st Grade, ask her about it sometime, she's a DUer too) until the bitter end. Who are the "et. al."?

So you say mob mentality, I say potato. You're far too absolute in your denunciations and defense of Carville. Try to look at it through different eyes.

[indimuse]

134. the same crew that

ignore fact!

[madmom]

148. "An assertion with no evidence" that Clinton did this, same as with Carville.

[tbyg52]

155. Hypothetically speaking, that would explain everything.

Can we kick him out of the party yet?

[Politicalboi]

77. The Government

Has been spying on us ya know and it wouldn't be hard to get any info if need be.

[Maddy McCall]

29. +1

[Debi]

97. OMG - I love your new avatar!

:loveya:

[1776Forever]

26. Clinton Tries to Delay County Conventions - Party Refuses Clinton Request

Clinton Tries to Delay County Conventions
March 15th, 2008

http://www.texasobserver.org/blog/index.php/2008/03/15/clinton-tries-to-delay-county-conventions/


The Associated Press is reporting that the Clinton campaign has asked the Texas Democratic Party to postpone the county conventions scheduled for Saturday, March 29. The conventions are the next stage in Texas’ convoluted caucus process.

In a letter to the party late Friday, the Clinton campaign stated it had received more than 2,000 complaints of violations during the caucus process, in which a million Texans came out. The campaign wants the eligibility of the caucus-goers double checked before the process continues.

With about 41 percent of precinct caucuses reported, rival Barack Obama was ahead with 56 percent to Clinton’s 44 percent.

The party has apparently already told the Clinton campaign it can’t verify the voters before March 29. They have not announced a decision on the Clinton campaign’s request for a delay.

The Obama campaign responded to the request with the following:

“We don’t think that the record-breaking number of Texans who stood up to be counted on March 4th would appreciate the Clinton campaign’s attempt to disenfranchise them and silence their voices just because the outcome wasn’t politically beneficial to Senator Clinton” – said Obama spokesman Dan Pfeiffer.

For now, it looks like what was a historic night for Texas Democrats could well end up as a nasty court battle.

...........

Democratic Party Refuses Clinton Request
March 17th, 2008 at 4:49 pm

http://www.texasobserver.org/blog/index.php/2008/03/17/democratic-party-refuses-clinton-request/

The Texas Democratic Party this afternoon flatly rejected the Hillary Clinton campaign’s request to delay the county conventions. The Clinton camp claims that volunteers for Barack Obama committed numerous acts of fraud on election night. The campaign had requested a delay to verify that the roughly one million caucus goers on March 4 were eligible to participate.

But the party is having none of it. In a forceful letter released this afternoon, party Chairman Boyd Richie wrote: “Texas Democratic Party will not do as suggested by one campaign and circumvent Party rules to set up an unnecessary, ad hoc ‘verification’ process that could effectively disqualify delegates selected at their precinct conventions after the fact. The Party has never stated any intention to set up a verification process of this nature because Party rules already provide for ‘verification’ through our credentials process. Candidates who wish to disqualify delegates must pursue formal challenges based on evidence filed appropriately in accordance with our party’s rules.”

While conceding the caucuses were not perfect, Richie brushes aside allegations of fraud. “These problems are not unique to Texas. Similar problems, in proportionately similar numbers, occurred in pure caucus states like Iowa and Nevada. The overwhelming majority of problems reported in Texas do not affect the legitimacy of delegate allocation.”
He then states that the county and state conventions will go on as scheduled.

So is this heading to court? That would seem to be the logical next play for the Clinton campaign. Asked for comment, Clinton campaign spokesperson Adrienne Elrod said, “Our only concern is that the caucus outcome accurately reflect the voices of those who were eligible to participate.”

[Maddy McCall]

28. -1

[pkz]

31. Reported here LIVE last night

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5288008

[MaineDem]

33. Dirty trick? Yes. Clinton sponsored? No proof at all.

And to ask for recommendations is a little weak. And pathetic.

[WinkyDink]

34. I suspect Republicans. Why do you suspect Democrats?

[Dems Will Win]

47. Answer below:

BECAUSE ONLY THE 2 DEMOCRATIC CAMPAIGNS WERE GIVEN THE LIST WITH THE NAMES AND EMAILS OF THE 88,000 PEOPLE

[CoffeeCat]

108. The Republicans would not gain from this...

Clinton gains from this.

After the Iowa County Convention, Hillary is worried, and she should be. Obama gained an additional 9 delegates
from the state of Iowa, due to what happened at the County Convention. Obama gained supporters from the initial
Iowa caucus, up until the vote at the Iowa County Convention, which was three weeks ago.

Remember when Clinton sent out her "Obama is in a downward spiral" press release? She did this a couple of
days before the Iowa County Convention. The Convention clearly showed that Obama gained and Clinton gained
nothing. Clinton was forced to stop her "downward spiral" meme after Iowa.

The second phases of these caucus processes---will most likely showcase momentum for Obama. I talked with many
Hillary delegates in Iowa--at the County Convention--who switched to Obama.

They're doing this because of Hillary's dirty campaigning and also because she has so openly insulted
and degraded the states that have caucuses. Many delegates are state party loyalists, who are very involved
with organizing, volunteering for and ensuring the fairness of the caucuses.

Look at the facts! Hillary tried to get the Texas County Convention delayed! She knows the Texas results
will mirror what happened in Iowa.

She doesn't want her eroding support demonstrated, going into PA.

Hillary Clinton and Obama were the only ones who had the delegate phone numbers.
Republicans do not benefit from this. Clinton sure does.

This is really appalling.

[FatDave]

125. Well, Iowa and Texas conventions are not apples and oranges

A lot, if not all, of the delegates Barack picked up in the Iowa county conventions were former Edwards supporters. Edwards came in second (though barely) in Iowa.

[toys4kitty]

158. Are you sure the Repub's wouldn't benefit from this?

If you take into account the so-called "limbaugh effect" and the general theory going around that
the Repubs would rather have Hillary be the nominee because she's easier to beat- then why wouldn't
they benefit?
As much as I support Obama and despise some of the horrible things that have come out from the Clinton
camp, without proof of WHO'S behind it, I actually give Clinton the benefit of the doubt here. This
really does not help her at all.
Regardless though, it's very disturbing and really makes me question what is going to become of our
party. I can visualize a dark room filled with Repubs grinning from ear to ear with this new juicy
tidbit. We are truly doing their work for them.

[Maddy McCall]

35. This is a GREAT THREAD!...

for the conspiracy nut forum at DU.

[Dems Will Win]

39. Not at all - only the campaigns were given the phone numbers

and emails. So it's either Obama trying to stop a convention that he is certainly going to win or Clinton trying to stop a convention she is certainly going to lose.

Take your pick.

[mtnester]

43. Do you have one of those Emails, since they seem to be flinging around?

cut and paste? No?


MmmK

[Dems Will Win]

59. This came in just 30 minutes ago from the official Dem Party

Something's going on and the dirty tricksters must be stopped by people being aware the conventions are NOT cancelled.

Not going to let the king of robo-callers Penn get away with this one!!

[Cali_Democrat]

45. I'm not sure the two are mutually exclusive

It could just be Rush's Ditto Heads stirring up trouble. I'm not sure we should jump to conclusions and blame Clinton for this.

[MonkeyFunk]

51. There's no evidence the calls are even taking place

much less that Clinton's behind them.

I should start a thread saying Obama's selling drugs out of his Senate office. There's exactly the same amount of evidence for that as there is for this.

[Maddy McCall]

54. It'd get locked.

Because of herdalert.

[TomBall Democrat]

83. ARE YOU CALLING MY STATE PARTY CHAIR A LIAR?

[MonkeyFunk]

141. Why?

Will we have to step outside?

I said there's no evidence presented that these calls have even taken place, much less that they're from the Clinton campaign.

It's a fucking mob around her lately.

[PBS Poll-435]

163. YOU Are out of line. nt

[redqueen]

60. Do we know for certain that no temps work anywhere near those lists?

You know... like those temps at the State Dept? With the passports?

[Arkansas Granny]

46. This is pure speculation on your part.

[Maddy McCall]

56. Yep.

:hi: Granny. :loveya:

[Melinda]

55. No evidence Clinton is involved; surrogates (think Carville election night 2004) perform...

dirty tricks all the time without the candidates knowledge. Hell, it could be the GOP for all we know... lists get shared, afterall. Sorry, can't recommend.

[Blue State Bandit]

57. From "Burnt Orange Report" (Texas Blog)

http://www.burntorangereport.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5475

[stillcool]

72. wow. That is effed up!

[Georgie_92]

61. Wow unbelievable!

[OzarkDem]

62. Oh, sure. Riight. Axelrod is really getting desperate

[Maddy McCall]

63. What this tells me is that 50+ dumbasses are posting at DU.

Recommending a thread based on nothing but speculation, because they want to only believe the worst about Hillary Clinton.

No one even knows whether or not this has truly happened. Anyone have a recording of the robocall? Multiple copies of the email?

I didn't think so.

So it's a leap to even claim that this is really happening. One must abandon all logical thought to think that Hillary could be behind it.

50+ dumbasses. That's all this thread demonstrates.

[madrchsod]

66. do`t count me

with out proof it`s bullshit... maddy i do agree with you on this.. :wow:

[Maddy McCall]

68. I don't.

I know you better than to think you'd support this silly allegation.

:hi:

[MagickMuffin]

67. Don't Mess with Texas or our Democratic Party Chairman

You are implying he is lying. I received the email from him. Now granted he did not say WHO was responsible for this mayhem, but he did write about it in his mass email.

[Maddy McCall]

69. No, sweetheart, I don't "imply." I say what I've gotta say.

Show the evidence of the calls and email. Where's the recording?

As for "Don't Mess with Texas," I agree with you there. You're not the only Texan on this board.

(I live in Mississippi, but I was born in San Antonio and raised in Texas...a state that's very dear to my heart.)

[WolverineDG]

136. Why would the state party chairman

(in the establishment of a state party that is supporting HRC, btw) go to all the trouble of sending out an email to EVERYONE if there were no such robo-calls or emails being made. Granted, I didn't receive one, but I was not home yesterday because I was working on the credentials committee. (I did, however, receive a delegate-poaching phone call on Monday or Tuesday.) The only ones who have personal knowledge of the emails are the party chair, other party officers & those folks who received the emails & phone calls. You could call up Boyd Richie & ask him yourself, but I think he's rather busy this weekend & probably won't return your call.

Until then, since all the crap in Texas came from one campaign (the one that threatened to sue the party), don't jump all over those who assume it was HRC. It wasn't in Obama's interest to make such calls.

dg

[stillcool]

74. someone upthread posted this link..

http://www.burntorangereport.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5475

From the Texas Democratic Party:

"It has come to our attention that someone, perhaps in the name of the Texas Democratic Party, is spreading misinformation about upcoming County and Senate District Conventions. We have received reports from delegates who have received e-mails saying that conventions have been cancelled. We have also received unconfirmed reports that someone is placing robo-calls, claiming to be from the Texas Democratic Party, suggesting that county or district conventions have been cancelled.

"The Texas Democratic Party has not been informed that any county or district convention has been cancelled or postponed. If any delegates receive information to that effect, I urge them to plan to attend their convention as scheduled unless they receive information about a postponement or cancellation from their local Democratic County Chair or the official Texas Democratic Party website.

"As we begin the next step in the convention process, all eyes are once again on Texas, watching and waiting to see the outcome of the delegate count that will be determined by our County and Senatorial District Conventions and State Convention. I am confident that the vast majority of Democrats will conduct our convention business in the fairest, most professional, and most impartial manner possible, as we work to convert the enthusiasm driving the convention process into Democratic victories from the County Courthouse to the State House to the White House."

[Umbram]

75. Your expectations are too high

This thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4641977

accusing Obama of smoking crack cocaine while receiving oral sex from men made it to the Greatest Page.

[MonkeyFunk]

99. and that thread was locked!

As this one should have been, but blatant lies against Clinton seem to be allowed here, while one must tread lightly around St. Obama.

[skids]

64. When Obama debates McCain he should challenge him to robocall-free campaign n/t

[MagickMuffin]

65. I received a call from Barack, alright it was actually a robo call

Making sure I show up tomorrow at my SD convention.

I plan on calling ALL the delegates at my precinct to remind them about tomorrow. I'll ask them if they have received any emails or robo calls, and if they will give me whatever info they might have.

Oh Sheesh, I'm SOOOOO fair to both sides, when it really isn't suppose to be my responsibility.

[Maddy McCall]

70. Can't imagine anyone not calling all of them.

That could be considered cheating.

I commend you for doing the right thing.

[KingFlorez]

71. There's no evidence the Clinton campaign is behind this

[TomBall Democrat]

79. No evidence - but if the GOP got an internal party list

who does that benefit? only Clinton or the GOP


And who had access? Clinton


I'll wait for the evidence. But she doesn't look good on this one.

If someone in her camp got wild and leaked it - then she looks like she can't run her campaign.

It's pretty damning.

And I'm really angry about this one - because we have so many new people in the Texas Party.

This is something that I want to see investigated - and if she's involved, charged with fraud.

[eridani]

116. There was Obama campaign screwup before the WA state caucuses on 2/5

People started getting robocalls telling them to be sure to go to the caucus on Sunday 2/6. Turned out not to be a dirty trick--the same outfit was doing the robocalls for both Maine and Washington, and got the two messages mixed up. Maine's caucus was on Sunday, and ours was on Saturday.

[TomBall Democrat]

137. What's the point?

That telling the wrong time is equivalent to telling this NOT THIS TIME?

???

[eridani]

139. The point is that we need more information to find out what is really going on n/t

[EmilyAnne]

76. If this is coming from the Clinton camp, my money is on a few overzealous campaigners.

Its like that Clinton campaigner at the University of Texas who worked a caucus and wrote down Hillary's name after telling naive Obama supporters that they were supposed to leave it blank. Its just a few people who want Hillary to win so badly that they decide to do petty things like that. I don't think there is much of a larger conspiracy. I can't imagine for one second that Hillary Clinton would give her blessing to such behavior.

A lot of Clinton supporters are going to be seriously heartbroken when she steps down. That makes people do some unethical things that they wouldn't otherwise do. Its sad.

[TomBall Democrat]

85. Unfortuately, I have a much more vivid imagination that you nt

[sunnystarr]

95. If there are indeed robo calls then it can't just be a few

Hillary supporters. It costs money to run them. Someone has to order them and include content etc. It would have to be the campaign.

[eridani]

117. That happens in any large campaign

It's hard to keep track of what really large numbers of supporters are doing, and there will always be a few of what a friend of mine calls "whacktivists" who get majorly out of line.

[HooptieWagon]

78. Can anyone explain the difference between the hill camp and bushco?

Damn, they seem the same to me.

[TomBall Democrat]

80. No, I can't.

Although, I'd bet it's more fun at the Bush dinner table than at the Clinton table.

[Megahurtz]

84. No Doubt

she has more shit up her sleeve.

[Ronnie]

87. This could get sillier,

but I don't see how. I'm pretty sure, though, if I check back in an hour, I'll see something even sillier.

[Medusa]

88. Bump anyway for the Texans at DU

n/t

[Vattel]

90. A stupid and disgusting post

for painfully obvious reasons

[AmericanUnity]

101. "Stupid" is backing a liar and selfish candidate like HILLARY - who'll do or say anything

[Vattel]

143. Americanunity

nice irony

[biglefthander]

91. One of the first rules of detective work is...

...when seeking the perpetrator of a crime, find out who the greatest beneficiary of the crime is.

Who benefits from this? Only one party: Hillary '08. And she tried to sue and have the conventions delayed.

This crap is straight out of the Nixon Dirty Tricks playbook, what they called "RAT-F@CKING" or cancelling Democratic events on the sly. I will not be surprised in the least if Clinton's surrogates are behind this. Despicable.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bhikkhu]

93. Dirty Tricks of '72 - recommended reading

http://www.woodstockjournal.com/elections.html

this is a write up of the Repugs involvement in the Dem primaries of '72, and a real eye-opener. I add it here mostly because of some doubt and "conspiracy theory" dismissiveness on the thread. So read a bit about what happened then, realizing this is only what is known, and probably far from a complete story.

Dismissing the notion that Hillary did it is probably smart, but that someone is doing it and will continue is a safe bet.

edit to say thanks to McCamy Taylor for the link.

[sce56]

94. I sure wish someone would get a copy of the email and post it! Then we can have a civilized debate.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_hKOdTFZsTY0/R9AaAv9hY8I/AAAAAAAAFDM/J5TiAUYffvQ/s400/NEOCON+TRASH+2.jpg

[Ronnie]

112. Have at it. Notice the words, "perhaps" and "uncomfirmed."

"

Dear fellow Democrat,

In recent weeks, the Texas Democratic Party has seen an unprecedented surge in participation, particularly in our Convention process. Thanks to our two outstanding candidates, Texas saw up to a million people participate in their Precinct Conventions, and we are expecting historic turnout at tomorrow's County and Senatorial District Conventions.

If you were elected as a delegate or alternate to your County or Senatorial District Convention, make sure to attend tomorrow. You can click here for more information, including a list of convention locations. Thanks to tremendous enthusiasm from grassroots Democrats, I am confident that these Conventions will be an unparalleled success.


Unfortunately, that enthusiasm may sometimes lead people to act irresponsibly. We have heard reports that misinformation is being spread about tomorrow's County and Senate District Conventions, perhaps using the name of the Texas Democratic Party. Some delegates have reported receiving emails saying that conventions have been cancelled. We have also heard unconfirmed reports that someone is placing robo-calls, claiming to be from the Texas Democratic Party, suggesting that county or district conventions have been cancelled.

The Texas Democratic Party has not been informed that any county or district convention has been cancelled or postponed. If you have heard otherwise, please plan on attending your convention as scheduled unless you receive information from your Democratic County Chair or the official Texas Democratic Party website.

As we begin the next step in the convention process, all eyes are once again on Texas, watching and waiting to see the outcome of our Conventions. I am confident that the vast majority of Democrats will conduct our convention business in the fairest, most professional, and most impartial manner possible, as we work to convert the enthusiasm driving the convention process into Democratic victories from the County Courthouse to the State House to the White House.

Your friend and fellow Democrat,

Boyd L. Richie

[BlueJac]

96. FUCK THE CLINTON AND ANYONE THAT SUPPORTS THEIR TACTICS!!!

[AmericanUnity]

100. As an RFK volunteer and Democrat this PISSES ME OFF! Get lost HILLARY!!

[TML]

105. Another reason

Why I will never vote for Hillary Clinton. If you can't win my vote honorably, you can't win it period.

[rainbow4321]

110. It was also Bill Clinton who gave out incorrect TX caucus information

One of our local radio stations caught it and outed him..he was telling people that the doors to caucus sites would be LOCKED at 7:15 and no one could get in if they arrived after 7:15 pm and that the caucus start time was 7 pm.

In reality, start time was 7:15 and the caucus would NOT start til the last caucus goer had signed in. And you couldn't even start signing in til the last primary voter on site had cast their primary vote.
His comment could have led people to think "man, it's 7:20 (or 7:30, etc...), forget it, let's not even go up there, they won't let us in, anyway."

If other precincts were anything like mine, long lines for the primary voting prevented the caucus from starting on time so even if you showed up at 9 pm (like mine!!) you could still be there in time to caucus!

All you had to do was show up at 7 pm, look at the Dem voting line and they could give you an estimate on how long it would be before the last voter would reach the voting machine. In our case, at 7:15 we were told it would be 1.5 hours til the last voter was done and they were right on the money. She cast her vote at 9 pm and got a LOUD round of applause from those of us who had been waiting there for 2 hours for her to do so.


---------------
And it was also Bill who was pleading with HRC supporters to "vote twice" because "it would be a shame for her to win during the day, only to LOSE at night"


He and the rest of the HRC camp knew what was going to happen, they knew they had no chance with the TX caucus.

[AzDar]

118. Ack!

:kick:

[AZBlue]

120. I don't think even Bush and Rove would stoop this low.

It's foul.

[EFerrari]

122. That's our gal!

:puke:

[McCamy Taylor]

126. CREEP Dirty Tricks from 1972 Robocalls designed to look like they were from Muskie

http://www.woodstockjournal.com/elections.html

In the days before the March 7 New Hampshire Primary
blue collar workers in Manchester, NH
found their phones ringing after midnight
with fake Muskie questions.

There were two types of calls:
1. when the caller identified himself as a member of the
“Harlem for Muskie Committee:
and promised that Senator Muskie would deliver “full justice for
Black people”
2. when the caller identified himself as a Muskie pollster, and asked
the midnight call recipient for whom he or she was voting
Then quickly the fake Nixon pollster would call back 2, 3, 4 times
with the same question

From the same link, CREEP had many ways to retrieve secret info from campaigns including moles (Lucianne Goldberg was a paid mole w/ a Dem campaign) paying cab drivers and others to copy papers. Nowadays, the WH had access to FISA and warrantless spying.

Therefore, given the high level of RNC dirty tricks this primary season directed at the Democrats, this is most likely another one of Karl Rove's operations. When Obama supporters blame it on Hillary w/o evidence they increase friction between the two camps and only increase the resolve of the Hillary's supporters (who feel that they are being unfairly accused) to continue the fight all the way up to the convention.

[McCamy Taylor]

127. Read my new journal "The Top 10 RNC Dirty Tricks Against the Dem Primary" so you can spot these

when they occur. They follow a pattern.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/McCamy%20Taylor/176

[DemVet]

135. Remember: Clinton supporters vote on Tuesday, Obama supporters vote on Wednesday.

There are no dirty tricks in politics. There are just politics. Stay on the porch if you can't run with the big dogs.

[catgirl]

140. They better fully investigate this!

And prosecute whoever is involved. This is BS! If Hillary is behind
this, then she should be exposed.

[totodeinhere]

142. The fact that many people are ready to believe that the Clintons are...

capable of this just shows what terrible regard many in the party have for them.

[MonkeyFunk]

145. Or it shows

the utter gullibility and lack of critical thinking skills of the Obamamob.

[totodeinhere]

146. And so you found the need to insult Obama supporters.

Both candidates themselves are fair game. But we have got to stop insulting each other if we are going to come together after the convention.

[MonkeyFunk]

147. Sorry

I'm pissed this thread wasn't locked yesterday. People post unsubstantiated accusations about Obama, and they're locked in no time.

This should have been, too.

[totodeinhere]

159. No need to apologize.

[Gman]

149. It is true that there was widespread fraud by Obama supporters in Texas

stolen lists, minutes, fake calls made, the list is endless. Of course, they lie through their teeth and deny any of it.

[madmom]

150. Rove just LOVES gullible people like the ones on this board!

[madrchsod]

153. if i were to bet on anyone

it would be one of his students

[madrchsod]

152. well after googling every different combo of words

as of this morning no one has come forward to show the emails or go on record that they received a call. the other confusion about delegates was the result of entry errors on the spreadsheets.

the only thing that COULD BE remotely lead to clinton is the threat of the lawsuit over the verifying the delegates before today. that is NOT ENOUGH to come to a concussion on who if anyone did this or worse made the whole thing up..

until there is an actual copy,a name of a real person,and all these are verified then this story is a hoax

if there is an actual copy-a real person then i will retract my opinion

[acmavm]

154. It 'seems'? Really? Is this like the bullshit here the other night blaming the

Clintons for someone getting into Obama's passport files?

You will be sorry. All of you will be very, very sorry if your boy Barrie does get the nomination. You will need Clinton supporters desperately. And I have no doubt in my mind that a lot of them will tell you to go fuck yourself (as someone else once said so crudely but effectively).

P.S. I can't stand either one.

[amb123]

156. Hillary's dirty tricks even WORSE that Karl's

This is proof that the Hillary Clinton Book of Dirty Tricks is even MEANER AND MORE CRUEL than the Bush/Rove Book of Dirty Tricks.

:grr:

[MonkeyFunk]

164. No

this is proof only that Clinton-haters will believe ANYTHING, no matter how baseless.

[madmom]

165. I first saw this post this morning, I can't believe it's still going on after I'm

home from work,and still there's no proof of anything just people who love to hate. Like I said before, Rove loves gullible people like you guys you'll believe anything he throws out there.