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nomorewhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:10 PM
Original message
Peggy Noonan rips Clinton a new one in the WSJ
Edited on Fri Mar-28-08 08:14 PM by nomorewhopper
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120663639483768965.html

DECLARATIONS
By PEGGY NOONAN


Getting Mrs. Clinton
March 28, 2008

I think we've reached a signal point in the campaign. This is the point where, with Hillary Clinton, either you get it or you don't. There's no dodging now. You either understand the problem with her candidacy, or you don't. You either understand who she is, or not. And if you don't, after 16 years of watching Clintonian dramas, you probably never will.

That's what the Bosnia story was about. Her fictions about dodging bullets on the tarmac -- and we have to hope they were lies, because if they weren't, if she thought what she was saying was true, we are in worse trouble than we thought -- either confirmed what you already knew (she lies as a matter of strategy, or, as William Safire said in 1996, by nature) or revealed in an unforgettable way (videotape! Smiling girl in pigtails offering flowers!) what you feared (that she lies more than is humanly usual, even politically usual).


But either you get it now or you never will. That's the importance of the Bosnia tape.

Many in the press get it, to their dismay, and it makes them uncomfortable, for it sours life to have a person whose character you feel you cannot admire play such a large daily role in your work. But I think it's fair to say of the establishment media at this point that it is well populated by people who feel such a lack of faith in Mrs. Clinton's words and ways that it amounts to an aversion. They are offended by how she and her staff operate. They try hard to be fair. They constantly have to police themselves.

Not that her staff isn't policing them too. Mrs. Clinton's people are heavy-handed in that area, letting producers and correspondents know they're watching, weighing, may have to take this higher. There's too much of this in politics, but Hillary's campaign takes it to a new level.

It's not only the press. It's what I get as I walk around New York, which used to be thick with her people. I went to a Hillary fund-raiser at Hunter College about a month ago, paying for a seat in the balcony and being ushered up to fill the more expensive section on the floor, so frantic were they to fill seats.

I sat next to a woman, a New York Democrat who'd been for Hillary from the beginning and still was. She was here. But, she said, "It doesn't seem to be working." She shrugged, not like a brokenhearted person but a practical person who'd missed all the signs of something coming. She wasn't mad at the voters. But she was no longer so taken by the woman who soon took the stage and enacted joy.

The other day a bookseller told me he'd been reading the opinion pages of the papers and noting the anti-Hillary feeling. Two weeks ago he realized he wasn't for her anymore. It wasn't one incident, just an accumulation of things. His experience tracks this week's Wall Street Journal/NBC poll showing Mrs. Clinton's disapproval numbers have risen to the highest level ever in the campaign, her highest in fact in seven years.

* * *

You'd think she'd pivot back to showing a likable side, chatting with women, weeping, wearing the bright yellows and reds that are thought to appeal to her core following, older women. Well, she's doing that. Yet at the same time, her campaign reveals new levels of thuggishness, though that's the wrong word, for thugs are often effective. This is mere heavy-handedness.

On Wednesday a group of Mrs. Clinton's top donors sent a letter to the speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, warning her in language that they no doubt thought subtle but that reflected a kind of incompetent menace, that her statements on the presidential campaign may result in less money for Democratic candidates for the House. Ms. Pelosi had said that in her view the superdelegates should support the presidential candidate who wins the most pledged delegates in state contests. The letter urged her to "clarify" her position, which is "clearly untenable" and "runs counter" to the superdelegates' right to make "an informed, individual decision" about "who would be the party's strongest nominee." The signers, noting their past and huge financial support, suggested that Ms. Pelosi "reflect" on her comments and amend them to reflect "a more open view."

Barack Obama's campaign called it inappropriate and said Mrs. Clinton should "reject the insinuation." But why would she? All she has now is bluster. Her supporters put their threat in a letter, not in a private meeting. By threatening Ms. Pelosi publicly, they robbed her of room to maneuver. She has to defy them or back down. She has always struck me as rather grittier than her chic suits, high heels and unhidden enthusiasm may suggest. We'll see.

What, really, is Mrs. Clinton doing? She is having the worst case of cognitive dissonance in the history of modern politics. She cannot come up with a credible, realistic path to the nomination. She can't trace the line from "this moment's difficulties" to "my triumphant end." But she cannot admit to herself that she can lose. Because Clintons don't lose. She can't figure out how to win, and she can't accept the idea of not winning. She cannot accept that this nobody from nowhere could have beaten her, quietly and silently, every day. (She cannot accept that she still doesn't know how he did it!)

She is concussed. But she is a scrapper, a fighter, and she's doing what she knows how to do: scrap and fight. Only harder. So that she ups the ante every day. She helped Ireland achieve peace. She tried to stop Nafta. She's been a leader for 35 years. She landed in Bosnia under siege and bravely dodged bullets. It was as if she'd watched the movie "Wag the Dog," with its fake footage of a terrified refugee woman running frantically from mortar fire, and found it not a cautionary tale about manipulation and politics, but an inspiration.

* * *

What struck me as the best commentary on the Bosnia story came from a poster called GI Joe who wrote in to a news blog: "Actually Mrs. Clinton was too modest. I was there and saw it all. When Mrs. Clinton got off the plane the tarmac came under mortar and machine gun fire. I was blown off my tank and exposed to enemy fire. Mrs. Clinton without regard to her own safety dragged me to safety, jumped on the tank and opened fire, killing 50 of the enemy." Soon a suicide bomber appeared, but Mrs. Clinton stopped the guards from opening fire. "She talked to the man in his own language and got him surrender. She found that he had suffered terribly as a result of policies of George Bush. She defused the bomb vest herself." Then she turned to his wounds. "She stopped my bleeding and saved my life. Chelsea donated the blood."

Made me laugh. It was like the voice of the people answering back. This guy knows that what Mrs. Clinton said is sort of crazy. He seems to know her reputation for untruths. He seemed to be saying, "I get it."




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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. although I do not support Sen Clinton's candidacy
Edited on Fri Mar-28-08 08:15 PM by musette_sf
i think Peggy Noonan should pound sand up her rear aperture, shameful Reaganista that she is.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. I totally, totally agree.
Peggy Noonan wrote Reagan's speeches.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. Agree.
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. Amen
You speak for me, too.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
33. Nooner is THE original spinner.
Literally.
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
37. 17th'd
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. NEW RULE: EVEN NEOCONS DON'T SUCK, AS LONG AS THEIR RIPPING THE CLINTONS.
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RememberWellstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
32. The Reagan connection again
It seems Obama has infinity to bring the Reagan admiration into his vision. Now we got Raygun's ex criminals doing Obama's dirty work? Damm.
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yuk. Peggy Nooner and the Wall Street Urinal?
Edited on Fri Mar-28-08 08:22 PM by ocelot
I'm no fan of Hillary, but I hate to see DU descending into Peggy's right-wing cesspool.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. Who cares what she thinks?
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
39. Ditto that...
And more apparent...

Who cares what the radical right opinion pages of the WSJ has to say about democrats...
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. Obama Supporters Are Supporting Things Said by Ronald Reagan Speech Writers.
Edited on Fri Mar-28-08 08:20 PM by BeatleBoot
:puke:


:puke:


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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. then so is Pelosi and Richardson and Leahy
...maybe Peggy just piggybacked on some truth this time because Clinton is still making it possible for people to take pot shots at her.

If you don't think there's anything wrong with Clinton's supporters issuing an implied threat to Pelosi (they note how important they are to the Democrats..) then you have some serious issues yourself.

You cannot deny these truths so you have to twist them to smear another democrat. How very Clinton campaignish of you.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Hillary supporters were posting Hannity, Matalin, and Newsmax.
Where was your :puke: icon then?

Love your phony and inconsistent outrage, Chumley.
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. And they were getting multiple recs. This one only has 1
I'd bet 99% of Obama supporters disapprove of this OP.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. And I bet Beatle didn't hesitate to rec the ones I mentioned.
Eagerly, I'll bet.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Is this the money quote or what?
"I think we've reached a signal point in the campaign. This is the point where, with Hillary Clinton, either you get it or you don't. There's no dodging now. You either understand the problem with her candidacy, or you don't. You either understand who she is, or not. And if you don't, after 16 years of watching Clintonian dramas, you probably never will."

I don't care who this comes from..
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. If a Reagan speech writer slipped up and said things generally fall down
when dropped, or advanced the opinion that molesting children is bad, should the Obama supporter disagree on principle because of the source of the statement?
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NWHarkness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. Who cares?
Fuck Peggy Noonan.
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'm an Obama supporter but I must say...
Peggy FUCKING Noonan? tsk tsk.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. This is the same woman who printed the "Elian Gonzolas was saved by Dolphins sent by God" as fact?
I think we can safely ignore her input.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. Reagan's former speech writer is not someone to..
go to for getting information about Democrats.
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. stopped clock and all that, but I wouldn't believe Noonan if she told me water was wet (nt)
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Mags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
12. yea, we all love the Peg, she has been with the Dems. forever.
what a laugh this is. She will be there to trash the big BHO, but that is alright, we can link her then
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. And I'm sure you will.
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. who cares what nooner thinks?
I don't.

And I'm an O-man.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
14. Soo, Peggy's saying Clinton is acting like Bush & Cheney, then
too bad she fails to make the connection. must be some "cognitive dissonance" on Peggy's part. Sort of like the bullshit lies about the "freedom fighters" in central america under ronnie raygun, too.

sort of like Bush in his codpiece with fake turkey, making fun of the dead troops by pretending to hunt for WMDs while the press laughed.

I think we need to add that frisson of Etienne Colbert's roasting of the journalist, too. They're soo uncomfortable about Clinton, but have had no problem kissing Bush's ass and eating the shit his administration handed out in the run-up to the Iraq invasion... they failed, they lied, just like Clinton, but their lies have far greater consquences because we voters can't turn them out of their jobs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa-4E8ZDj9s

listen to the quiet when Colbert body checks the DC press.
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
15. Hillary supporters are still holding on for that last chance.
They might already get it. But there is that last chance. Then they'll decide if they want to support Obama or not. The ones who don't may not vote at all. Or they switch parties. But they don't come here and bash Obama still.
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. GAG!
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DaDooRonRon Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
26. Ah yes, shoot the messenger
Edited on Fri Mar-28-08 09:19 PM by DaDooRonRon
How would you all feel if Paul Krugman wrote it instead of Noonan?

I think there two posts talking about the premise of the article and twenty-five saying "Noonan sucks." Gosh, such political acumen.

It is why I no longer post here much, after being a lurker for so long. You all are fast becoming a parody of yourselves - living in a cocoon of your own making and lashing out at anyone who doesn't fit your world view.

I think I know someone like that - he resides in Washington, kills people for fun, and has a fake Texas accent. You are more alike than you would ever care to admit.

"If you're not with us you're against us" - who would have thought that would be the rallying cry for BOTH of you.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
27. Noonan is a reknucklian propagandist. Fuck her.
Yuck. It is over. Welcome the bloodied and bedraggled survivors of the Clinton-Obama wars here back home.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
28. she`ll shit on obama next
she has`t got a dog in the fight so who gives a fuck what she has to say.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
29. LOL!
After the non-stop whining from Obama supporters about using right-wing sources? And successfully getting some locked, I might add - you post from Peggy Noonan?
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
30. Let's see: that makes Noonan, Scarborough, and the Washington Moonie Times. Next: G. Gordon Liddy!
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
31. Lowering ones self to citing Peggy Noonan
isn't helping your candidate.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
34. Hidden profile, posting Noonan. Not a good sign...
No wonder there is little here but WTF and bluster. Worth a kick to keep it up front - knowing that this sort of thing gets no support anymore. Take note.
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
35. Peggy Peggy
Peggy Peggy bo Beggy.. Banana Fana Fo Feggy...Fee Fi Fo Peggy. The ultra conservative catholic speech writer who goes to mass every day in New York City and kneels at the alter of the Military-Industrail Complex while she kisses the Pope's Ring? Nahhh.. couldnt be her..... not the same person.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
36. Peggy Noonan is a total neocon, period.
If you don't believe me, just take a look at her articles from 2002 and early 2003.
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
38. Hey, OP has brung Clinton & Obama folks together!
Edited on Sat Mar-29-08 01:26 AM by A-Schwarzenegger
for a moment anyhows...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
40. Can we please not refer to Noonan as anything but @sshole? n/t
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