It's not just uneducated people who think Obama's a Muslim...disturbing conversation

[democrattotheend]

I’m a little shaken up from a conversation I just had. My roommate’s parents are staying with us for the weekend, and when I got home they were watching the news. They were very nice to me at first, but when I mentioned that I might be going to Philly for the weekend to volunteer for Obama her mother’s tone seemed to change. Later, when a story about the election came on the news I asked if they had a preferred candidate, her mother said huffily “not Obama.”

So I said okay and dropped it, but then she said “the last thing we need is Arabs infiltrating our government.” I said that Obama is not Arab and she just scoffed and said huffily “I’m not getting into this with you.”

What’s really disturbing about this is that my roommate’s parents are not uneducated people. They are upper-middle class Jews from Cleveland with college degrees. I would guess that they have been recipients of a smear e-mail similar to one that my cousin’s girlfriend’s mother (who also lives in Cleveland) received, but it’s disturbing that educated people believe this crap.

Maybe I am overreacting, but I am kind of shaken up right now…I feel uncomfortable in my own apartment. I went back out to the living room a little later to get some water and her mother was pleasant, but I don’t want to make small talk with someone who is so bigoted towards Arabs and so ignorant and judgmental. Maybe I’ll drive up to Philly and stay at my parents’ empty house tomorrow night and do some canvassing…I have a friend’s birthday tomorrow night but maybe she’ll understand.

[Johnny__Motown]

1. Sounds like deep seated bigotry against anything Muslim, even someone descended from a Muslim

Nothing you can do about it... best to just let that shit go.

[babylonsister]

56. Bigotry fomented by this admin; they've done a fine job. nt

[Amelie]

62. My MIL

Life long Democrat, well-educated (has a MSW), well-traveled, etc., has told me point blank, "I just don't think I can vote for anyone who's middle name is 'Hussein.' I mean, doesn't that make *you* a little nervous?"

What do you say to that? You're right. It's just deep-seated ignorance that you can't talk to.

[lligrd]

2. Don't Go. Stay And Play Obama Speeches Loudly

so they can't be ignored.

[democrattotheend]

3. Good idea, but maybe too rude

I don't want to be rude to my roommate's parents, especially when she has been gracious enough to let my parents stay with us many times. If I can find a way to not make it look forced maybe I will, but I don't want it to be obvious.

[lligrd]

5. Rude? She Basically Told You To Shut Up In Your Own

apartment. That was rude. You will just be doing your thing, listening to Obama. If they complain, turn it down for a while. And leave lots of Obama literature around.

[democrattotheend]

7. I'm thinking of printing out a couple articles

And politely suggesting that she read them if she gets a chance. I may do that as they are on their way out on Sunday. What do you think of that idea?

[lligrd]

12. I Think They Are Basically Lost Causes So I'd Opt Not To Confront

but leaving the material out can't hurt.

[ClayZ]

17. Show them this

Obama on the View today!

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPTl4s_xIDY

Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1P1F064gIs


Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1P1F064gIs

[krkaufman]

38. How about hosting an Obama meet-up on Saturday or Sunday afternoon? n/t

:)

[cooolandrew]

48. Great idea everyone should do that. Just set up stands with an Obama picture and play away.

[donheld]

4. Some people want to believe he's a muslim

that way they don't have to say they won't vote for a black man, or a man named Hussein.

[pop goes the weasel]

10. I hadn't thought of that angle

How awful, but probably right on the money.

[EFerrari]

13. Bingo. n/t

[krkaufman]

37. That's the same thing I was thinking about the Rev. Wright controversy

... that many people would be relieved that Obama was associated with such a vile America hater that they couldn't vote for him, relieved because now they had a rationalization for their vote other than the truth, that they couldn't bring themselves to vote for an African American.

[donheld]

39. Yes that's all it is

Blame the crazy pastor. They don't care if Hillary's or John McCain's pastors may be crazy too.
If he wasn't black they would never have looked twice at Obama's pastor.

[krkaufman]

40. psssst!

(they're pastors are white)

[MADem]

6. Obama is not an Arab. He's Kenyan-Kansan. But what does being ARAB, which he isn't,

have to do with being MUSLIM? They are NOT synonymous.

Arabs come in all religious flavors. Equating being ARAB with being Muslim is a common misconception. But it's inaccurate. Ask the family of Danny Thomas. Or George Mitchell. Both of Lebanese ancestry, and Christian. Even Obama's distanced pal, Tony Rezko, was a Christian from Aleppo, Syria.

Many Arabs are Christians, many Arabs are JEWS. Many Arabs belong to small sects that are a challenge to explain to people, because they're six of one, and half dozen of the other.

Many, in fact MOST, Muslims aren't Arab at all--they're African, Persian, Indonesian, European, Chinese, Chechnyan, Bosnian, Turkish, Australian, American, Canadian..etc., etc.

[democrattotheend]

9. I know that there is a difference

But my roommate's mother did not seem to distinguish that in her mind. To her they are one in the same, and all anti-American with sinister motives. That's part of what is so disturbing about this.

[MADem]

31. Well, tell her Danny Thomas was an Arab. So's Marlo Thomas.

So's Klinger (Jamie Farr) on MASH. Paul Anka!! HELEN Thomas!!! They're all....ARABS!!!

[Warren DeMontague]

20. The Kansan thing worries me a little, frankly.

Although I'm pretty sure Obama believes in evolution, so I'm moving beyond it.

Edit: Yes, that's a joke. I realize there are plenty of people in Kansas who know the Earth isn't 6,000 years old.

[MADem]

29. What's the matter with KANSAS? (The book title, not a question to you!)

I figured it was a joke but I can relate to your abundance of caution...sometimes, ya gotta be precise because stuff goes WHOOOSH, right over the ole head!

[Warren DeMontague]

32. I don't need 100 pissed off Kansan DU'ers on my ass, that's for sure.

I respect 'em all for fighting the good fight out there. :hi:

And I never read the Frank book; from what I understand of the premise, I agree with some of the analysis-- but not necessarily the solution.

[MADem]

35. I haven't gotten round to the book, either! Maybe this summer.... nt

[Mooney]

30. It doesn't matter.

There's a significant portion of the population for whom the word "Arab" simply means this:



You and I both know that "Arab" is a catch-all term for a very large and diverse ethnic group of many different hues, religions, cultures, etc., but we can never convey that fact or any of its nuances to some people. As soon as they hear the word "Arab" their minds slam shut. The word has the same effect on them that the word "Mexican" has on Lou Dobbs.

I've been in these discussions before, and it's almost always futile. It's very upsetting, in part because I live in a neighborhood with a very large Arab population, and without exception everyone has been very kind and welcoming to me and my family, who are not of Arab descent. The woman who provides our son's day care is Palestinian, and she's about the sweetest person you could ever hope to meet. All the business owners around here, people I see and speak to every day, are from all different parts of the Arab world and have been nothing but friendly and accomodating to me and my family. I'm genuinely glad that my 9-month-old son going to grow up around these people and experience this culture. But when I try to convey these observations to people of the aforementioned mindset, I usually don't get very far before I'm interrupted with "Well if they're such nice people then why didn't they apologize for 9-11?"

You can lead a horse to water... blah blah...

[MADem]

33. Poor Lou Dobbs--it's unlikely that President McCain would make him Ambassador to Mexico!!

:rofl:

I'm sure he was hoping for some sort of gig...heck, he was thinkng of running HIMSELF! AGGGH!

I'm surprised that a Jewish woman would be that clueless, though. That's an exception to the rule. Most Jews I know, observant ones, particularly, educated ones, certainly, have a pretty good understanding of the Arab world and all its nuances. No matter what their political leanings, they just wouldn't make that kind of broad-brushed statement...

[DerekJ]

41. MADem. Is this the first time I agree with you?

:bounce:

Good post.

I might hesitate to add. As progressives, we should say, SO WHAT IF HE IS?

[FrenchieCat]

8. Just respond.....But it's Hillary who is proven liar (Bosnia), and chose to stay with a

philanderer....but I understand where you are coming from. Then smile.

If she can say what she wants in your presence knowing that you are working on Obama's campaign, maybe it means that she can stand a little truth (since she appears to think she has the corner market on it). Then maybe she'll think about what you said, and who's who when she alone in the bathroom, using the toilet.

After the speech that Obama gave, maybe it has come the time when we can't afford to be too hesitant when we know what is being perpetuated is a lie. It's like a white person using the "N" word around you because you are not Black when speaking about a Black person. Sometimes folks just have to speak up. Just stay cool when you read her the riot act, again....with a smile on your face. She is part of the problem, and you pointing it out doesn't make you rude; it makes your a bit brave, is all.

[democrattotheend]

11. Not sure if she supports Hillary

I think my roommate said one of her parents voted for McCain. Either way, they live in Ohio and I won't say anything to try to dissuade them from voting for Clinton in the general if she is the nominee.

[FrenchieCat]

16. Then tell them that you fear McCain,

because you heard that he is the Manchurian candidate, and was indoctrinated while he was held captive. Print the internet story on that, and handed to her. Tell her you are afraid of 100 years of more wars and Bomb, Bomb, Bombing Iran. Tell her that the military industrial complex and the money that we are spending on this war is unpatriotic.

Here's some Manchurian candidate literature for her.
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/
http://ruinsofempire.blogspot.com/2007/02/john-mccain-manchurian-candidate.html
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_news&Number=296057251&page=&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21&vc=1&t=0 (video)

When she denies it, tell her that Obama isn't an Arab or a Muslim either, and that one can't believe what the read on the Internet in reference to this secret nefarious junk. That this stuff is put out for the folks that are uneducated and predispositioned to being biggoted. Then Smile.

[FrenchieCat]

24. Oh yeah.......just leave the Manchurian candidate literature

in the bathroom that they will be using. LOL!

[ClayZ]

14. Explain to them why you support Obama.

Perhaps by getting them to tell you who they support and why.

They may have never heard an Obama supporter speak about him. Lots of people are stuck in RUTS!

I know my parents (in their 80) get several Right Wing Spin emails a week. That is just the ones they forward to me.

I have told them how I feel about Obama and send along emails that disprove the idiotic things they get from their circles of ReThug friends.

[democrattotheend]

21. She did not want to talk about it

And I don't feel like it is appropriate to argue. But I might print out a couple articles and suggest that she read them if she is so inclined.

[blogslut]

15. A degree doesn't not equal intelligence

I've observed hundreds of degreed folk who have no more common sense than a rock.

As for your roommate's parents, bite your lip and get through the visit. After they leave, burn some sage and open the door so their destructive energy will leave your house.

[crankychatter]

18. It's understandable but Atypical

the explanation of that one is obvious and although I can empathize with your desire to enlighten them?

it ain't gonna happen....

relax... educated American Jews are simply this... Americans.

We take what we believe and discard the rest, then make our individual decisions based up on that.

I have a lot of faith in US.

We ain't demographics, we're individuals.

For every anecdote like this, there are thousands that would confirm what I'm saying.

Just love them... like Obama's sweet grandma... and give them your permission to be themselves.

[dansolo]

45. Than appeal to their feelings towards the safety of Israel

Israel will get pulled into any conflict we start with Iran, which is far more likely with McCain or Hillary. And Iran is capable of inflicting more damage than Saddam's SCUD missiles during the first Gulf War.

[dansolo]

46. Than appeal to their feelings towards the safety of Israel

Israel will get pulled into any conflict we start with Iran, which is far more likely with McCain or Hillary. And Iran is capable of inflicting more damage than Saddam's SCUD missiles during the first Gulf War.

[Emit]

19. I honestly don't think I could've held my tongue on that one

but I understand your position -- and sympathize with you for being in that position.

Fear and prejudice are such sad and awful things.

My own mother has been saying weird things on this matter, too, and it has put a wedge between us lately. I had her over for dinner just last week and she seemed "thrilled" by all the Obama and Rev Wright coverage. She kept referring to Wright as a 'racist' and I just couldn't hold back. I said something to the effective of, "Oh yeah, Mom, scary black man..." very sarcastically and we both kind of just backed off. Later, I pulled up one of the full-length videos online of Wright's -- the one where he's talking about the "chickens coming home to roost" and we watched it together. It showed the context with which Wright was actually quoting a military guy on Fox News. The sermon went on and in the end, Wright talked about looking within yourself for spiritual guidance when things like 911 happen and doing some soul searching. That's something my mother has been doing a lot of lately in her old age. She was very quiet and just said, "Well, I can't disagree with that..."

I spoke with her just yesterday, and she hardly mentioned the topic, but did casually say that she had encouraged my sister, who's also been in a frenzy with this whole thing, to watch the full-length videos to understand the context. Progress perhaps.

edit typo and to add a thought

[democrattotheend]

25. Good for you. I would definitely argue with my own mother

I just don't want to pick a fight with someone I don't know who is a guest in my apartment.

Luckily my parents and grandparents support Obama...my grandparents volunteered with me last weekend, and they told me today that they donated (only the second time in their lives that they have donated to a political candidate, the first being Ned Lamont) because they wanted a chance to win dinner with Barack.

[crankychatter]

22. It's understandable but Atypical

the explanation of that one is obvious and although I can empathize with your desire to enlighten them?

it ain't gonna happen....

relax... educated American Jews are simply this... Americans.

We take what we believe and discard the rest, then make our individual decisions based up on that.

I have a lot of faith in US.

We ain't demographics, we're individuals.

For every anecdote like this, there are thousands that would confirm what I'm saying.

Just love them... like Obama's sweet grandma... and give them your permission to be themselves.

I'm not going to recommend because I believe an Obama supporter should know better than to place an inflammatory race/religion themed string title up top... regardless of intentions, it has only ONE result.

and it ain't helping.

[crankychatter]

27. Send them the link on JourneymanPictures RE "Mama Obama"

I did that for a relative here in rural Kansas, degree in Political Science, Speech Therapist for the school district.

She'd heard through a Church Email that Obama was a Muslim.

Now she's un-disinforming the WHOLE congregation.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

23. Someone I know who's a long term Dem. had said the same thing a while back.

She's also college educated. I couldn't convince her he wasn't. I haven't talked to her lately. Hopefully - she's come to her senses.

[democrattotheend]

26. I'm glad you tried

I know you support Clinton, so I appreciate your willingness to work to dispel a false rumor about Obama. I would do the same for Clinton if faced with someone who believed ugly rumors about her that were not true.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

34. Thanks - you want people to have the right info at least so they can make an educated vote.

I know a Repub who keeps claiming the same thing and I have to keep correcting him. He no longer says it at least.

It also really bugs me how paranoid people are of Arabs and Muslims - but you really can't convince people that they're NOT the devil. That's an even tougher sell....

[sudopod]

28. I feel your pain

*buys you a beer*

[krkaufman]

36. I find it interesting that the mother said she "didn't want to get into it with you" ...

... after she was already knee-deep in it. Talk about a drive-by smear. "Obama's an Arab muslim. Now no more talking about it! harrumph!"

At a minimum, you could/should inform the mother that she is woefully misinformed, Obama is American-born (a bit of a requirement for running for the Presidency), and that she needs to reconsider her sources of information. And then tell her that you don't want to get into it any further.

[goletian]

42. theyre just educated conservatives.

schooling helps you talk the talk, but it does nothing for the walk. thats innate.

[BeyondGeography]

43. I'd tell her to fuck off and leave, but that's just me

You'll do much better in life behaving diplomatically. I'm too old to reform.

[democrattotheend]

65. I wish I could

But my roommate has been nice enough to let my parents stay with us many times since we moved in, and this is the first time her family has visited. I am not going to kick them out. But my roommate is moving out soon (unfortunately) so this is probably the only time I will have to deal with her mother.

[cali]

44. I don't know what to suggest

It's tempting to say that you should tell the Mom that you don't appreciate that kind of bigotry being expressed in your own home, but you could well endanger your living situation. Just remember that educated people can still be stupid and bigoted.

[cooolandrew]

47. It's mindblowing after the Rev Wright story how do they explain that. Some are using it as a defense

to excuse their dislike at this point. Everyone on planet earth knows he is christian at this point anything else is a cover for frankly bigotry.

[woolldog]

49. these people seem to think of Muslim as an ethnicity

and not simply a religion.

[AmericanUnity]

50. Grades 1-2, Catholic School - 3-4 Public - 5-12 Punahou School (Christian Academy) Link Inside

http://www.punahou.edu/page.cfm?p=13

[Norrin Radd]

51. After: “I’m not getting into this with you," I would stated

"You brought it up..." and then, archly, "Infiltrating the government?! They can't because there is no more room to do so -- the bigots got there first."

[goldcanyonaz]

52. Many Jews became uncomfortable with Obama after his comments in regards to Palestine.

"No one is suffering more than the Palestinian people." Also his churches association with Farrakhan has many disturbed as well. You might try to have a conversation by stating that you respect her opinions and would like to have a conversation with her to better understand her concerns.

In order to have a conversation with someone else you need to first understand where they are coming from, to assume people are bigots is much of the time to assume wrong.

[scheming daemons]

58. If an "educated" person holds the view that Obama is an "arab"... then they deserve

all the scorn thrown at them.

They're stupid.

They're ignorant.


and yes... they're bigots.


I don't care WHERE a person is coming from... to hold a viewpoint that is DEMONSTRABLY false in the face of 100% evidence to the contrary makes a person most-deserving of ridicule and scorn.

[democrattotheend]

59. I remember when people got upset about that comment

Which was ridiculous. He didn't ascribe blame to anyone. It's a fact that the Palestinians are suffering, in part due to the failures of their own leadership. He did not blame Israel for their suffering.

[geek tragedy]

60. The only people disturbed by Obama's concern

for the suffering of Palestinians are Arab-hating bigots in the first place.

[Warren Stupidity]

53. Having gone to college 40 years ago doesn't mean that

you are currently 'educated'. Your roommates mom is ignorant. She has slipped into that status it seems, probably because over time she has lost the capacity to continue to keep herself informed and to use her powers of critical thinking and analysis to understand the world based on the information she absorbs. I know lots of very ignorant people with college educations.

[izzybeans]

54. Racism makes people stupid. College degrees don't make them educated.

I think the racist remarks about Arabs is pretty telling. "We don't need Arabs infiltrating our government."

It's the inverse of the Stormfront mentality.

[Adelante]

55. This is not a winning situation for you

They are not your parents, but your roommate's parents. Leave it to your roommate. Provide your roommate with this PBS link:

The Internet and Political Smears
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/401/political-smears.html

Ask the roommate if he or she would like to send it to the parents.

This way, they may become a bit more enlightened without your being embroiled in tensions in your home related to somebody else's family.

Just be polite to the parents, don't talk politics with them, or be someplace else when they are scheduled to be around.

That's my advice, anyways.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

57. right wingers generally want people to think that

I hear this constantly from RWers

[MadBadger]

61. The Jewish Community has been attacked the hardest with the emails and smear campaign

Mostly from RW Jewish Ass holes who try to paint him as a Muslim who is anti-Israel.

[stevietheman]

63. Say "I respect only opinions that are defended with facts." n/t

n/t

[democrattotheend]

64. Update

So I was as nice as could be, apologizing to her for bringing it up and saying that my father had always told me it was rude to bring up politics, but living in the DC area, everyone talks politics and I tend to forget that people from out of town are not used to being asked about their political views first thing. She said that she wasn't offended, she just did not want to get into an argument since it was obvious we did not see eye to eye.

I then tried to give her an article I had printed out by Marty Peretz of The New Republic vouching for Obama's pro-Israel credentials, but she just waved it away and said "I'm not interested." I get the sense that she probably knows Obama is not a Muslim but does not want to accept it, or perhaps she believes that despite what anyone says he is secretly a radical Muslim who sympathizes with terrorists. I guess it's a lost cause. I just wish she would get out of my apartment already, at least for the day. Do they really need to hang around all day? GRRR!!!

[writes3000]

67. You got it. She wants to hate him. No way around it.

I'm very, very impressed with how you handled that.

Good for you!

[Willo]

66. DemocraticEnd, don't be unrattled...consider it training for your trip

You're about to go to Philly to talk positively about Obama. But, first someone comes into your home and renders you immobile.

And, not just anybody mind you, your friend's mom. That certainly makes the playing field unfair.

You have been presented with another scenario to address. YOU are forced to have to come up with additional methods of dealing with people. You have the material. Now, how do you get them to hear you?

Also, It may not make for a comfortable situation for you to say or your roommate to hear, but there is nothing wrong with respectfully saying

"Mrs ___, I respect you as an adult and the mother of my friend, but I do not appreciate those types of comments in my home. If you are truly against hearing why Obama would make a good president, I won't discuss that with you. However, I/we are for Obama and this is a big time right now, so you'll be hearing about him a lot while you're here. I'm a bit thirsty, can I get you, anything?"