Hagel on Obama

[Inuca]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-abrams/hagel-barack-best-to-uni_b_94003.html Barack best to unite the country

[ElsewheresDaughter]

1. more Repukes for Obama

[goldcanyonaz]

2. Some here actually wanted this guy as Obama's VP.

Boggles the mind.

[stevenleser]

6. I'm not sure that would be a bad idea...

I think that a unity ticket with a Democrat at the top might be the way to go the way things are now.

I havent researched enough about Hagel to know whether he is the guy for that. I might prefer someone like Lincoln Chafee. The point is the message this sends. Its time for us to come together to resolve the really serious problems the country is facing right now.

[DevonRex]

26. Hadn't thought

about Linc before. Guess I'll have to research him too.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

53. It's a horrible idea. nt

[Milo_Bloom]

63. Not Hagel

Although he is right on the war NOW (after originally voting for it), he is a hardcore conservative on almost every other issue.

[vssmith]

76. Wasn't he a major shareholder in an election machine company?

He won his last election in Nebraska by over 80%

[Inuca]

82. I just heard

a couple of hours ago at a book signing somebody telling Hagel that she has voted denocrat all ger long life except for the two times she voted for him. I assume she is not the only one, so maybe that explains his 80% win.

[TheFarseer]

7. I like Hagel in that he is extremely fair-minded

and he speaks out on the issues, but on most issues he is diametrically opposed to what the Demcoratic party stands for. I am not against having a republican VP but it would have to be someone who is with us on most issues, like Lincoln Chaffee for instance.

[stevenleser]

10. Brilliant minds...

;-) :toast:

[goldcanyonaz]

12. Hagel, is anti-choice, but don't let a little thing like that get in the way.

[catgirl]

14. Hagel would be supporting a pro-choice candidate

What's your point?

[Hoof Hearted]

33. Hagel will not endorse a Democrat. You're in for dissapointment if you allow yourself to be deluded

into thinking otherwise. Why would you want the support of a seriously hard-nosed, anti-progressive, anti-choice, anti-civil rights REAL Republican hard-ass? Do you know anything about him or are you just all in love because you THINK he would/could support the chosen one?

[Thickasabrick]

50. Hagel can do what he wants now - he is retiring. He was very

conservative but it was conservatives who elected him and he voted the way his constituents expected. To do otherwise would have been political suicide and isn't that what a representative is suppose to do...represent the people who elected you?

[catgirl]

90. Not sure what planet you're on

What in my post warrants your comments? I AM familiar with Hagel's views. He did one thing that
I respected. He spoke out against slaughtering wild horses. As a "hoof hearted" person, you'd know
that.

To accuse me of being in "love" with Hagel just shows how ridiculous you are.

[Inuca]

91. I did not know about that

Nice!

[ourbluenation]

15. materially, I cant see what thats got to do with anything. n/t

[Inuca]

16. So is Cassey (probably not your favorite guy

right now), AFAIK Harry Reid, and I am sure some other major dems that I do not know about. Hagel is not a religious nut.

[stevenleser]

25. Since I said he might not be the one, and I suggested Chafee, not sure why your comment is relevant

:eyes:

[Barking Spider]

18. I brought it up in a VP thread

I still prefer Richardson, but I think Hagel is an interesting idea for a couple of reasons.

1. Where is a social conservative more dangerous? In the Senate, or attending state funerals and greeting dignitaries at the airport?

2. It erodes McCains support and even turns some midwest red states into potential blue states.

3. He provides Senate Foreign Relation and Senate Intel experience/credentials.

[dansolo]

38. But if Obama is successfult, Hagel gets a leg up to the White House

The question we need to ask is whether we would want to see Hagel potentially as president.

[Barking Spider]

70. Point well taken. n/t

[LiberalAndProud]

60. Hagel is not running again. Say hello to Senator Johanns.

[ps1074]

29. That's not such an absurd idea

eom

[Blondbostonian]

4. I look forward to you supporting the Democratic nominee in November

[stray cat]

8. Wow independents and republicans who will vote for the "most liberal' senator

It sounds like a potential winning combination to me. I want a candidate who can get more than 30% of the vote (estimated dem registration) in the GE.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

32. especially with Hagel owning the controlling shares in the ES&S VOTING MACHINE COMPANY!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

35. Hagel owns the company that will be counting Obama's votes...ES&S

[Buzz Clik]

11. Hagel's a reasonable guy. Why not? That is the point of "uniting" after all.

[Inuca]

17. Oh, the HORROR!!! n/t

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

24. a repuke who called for end to Iraq war

and is hated by the neocon pugs for it.

Except for his stance on the war, it is true, he votes very "conservatively".

[Kahuna]

93. At least Hagel isn't pro Obama because El Rushbo told him too. nt

[Inuca]

3. Also

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/29/91550/0424/525/486636

[catgirl]

13. He might actually endorse him! Bad news for McCain

That would be great. Obama is polling really well in Nebraska.Can you
imagine if Nebraska turned blue? Who woulda thunk?

[NEDem]

19. We won't go blue, purple is a real possibility

The western part of the state would vote for Jeffrey Dahmer for President if he was a republican. The eastern third of the state (where all the people are) could go for Obama. We split electoral votes here, so he could win 2 of them.

[LiberalAndProud]

61. Have our EVs ever been split?

Sincere question. I don't think they have, but I don't know if there has ever been an election scenario where they might have been. It would be interesting to know if Nebraska really ever would split the EVs.

[NEDem]

79. No

The last time this state went for a Dem was LBJ. Usually It's like 70% for the repub candidate

[catgirl]

5. Obama is the uniter

McCain and Hillary are not. It's a no-brainer that Obama is the best
candidate. Even some republicans are starting to back him.

[Arkana]

9. Thanks, Chuck.

You still can't be VP, though--you're not a Democrat.

[RazBerryBeret]

20. I like Chuck....

and I will forgive him a little for being a republican....
how can you NOT like someone like this:

Hagel, who's been a harsh critic of the war since 2003, writes that the invasion of Iraq was "the triumph of the so-called neoconservative ideology, as well as Bush administration arrogance and incompetence."
(I agree 100%)

Hagel was the only member of his party on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to support a nonbinding measure critical of Bush's decision to dispatch an additional 30,000 troops to Iraq.
"There is no strategy. This is a pingpong game with American lives,
(agreed)

writes in a new book that the United States needs independent leadership and possibly another political party, while suggesting the Iraq war might be remembered as one of the five biggest blunders in history.

So, while I don't agree with all his policies, we can find common ground. and that is one of Obama's platforms: there are things we all want, we are all Americans. If we can agree with what has gone wrong, we can move on and up.

[Thickasabrick]

21. I adore Chuck Hagel. He is feeling so free now that he is retiring -

I can easily see him changing parties. I wish Colin Powell would come out for Obama too.

[Hoof Hearted]

30. WHAT?!? Hagel is a rock-hard, anti-choice, anti-progressive REAL Republican CONSERVATIVE

Check his voting record and look at the programs for children and education he slashed while he was governor of Nebraska.

You ADORE him? This is the kind of person DU is in love with now? This place has LOST ITS MIND.

[Thickasabrick]

31. Yes I adore him - he is the only republican I know that is honest

and I can always count on him to be honest and vote with his conscience. I may not like his politics - but I love the man.

[TwilightGardener]

46. Hagel was never the Governor of Nebraska. You're making shit up.

[LiberalAndProud]

58. Thanks Hoof Hearted.

For just a second I thought I'd lost my mind. I've liked Hagel's rhetoric about the war since before it started. What really really bugs me about the guy is that he absolutely knew going in that this war was a bad idea and he voted for INWR anyway. To me, that is worse that traitorous. He talks a good talk about the war and that is the end of anything good I have to say about him.

[TwilightGardener]

64. Hillary also voted for the war. But Hagel at least admits he made a mistake on that vote.

[LiberalAndProud]

68. Yes she did. BUT Hagel was speaking out aganst the war

before he voted for War Resolution. This isn't about Senator Clinton's vote, wienerdoggie, really it isn't. It's about Hagel's war vote. He ABSOLUTELY knew that it was a bad bad bad move and he voted for it anyway. He's been a * enabler his entire tenure in the Senate. I really have wanted to fall in love with him because he has spoken eloquently against the war (at no small political cost). He DID NOT vote his conscience when it really mattered. I can't get past that.

[TwilightGardener]

71. Well, I can forgive him, because I don't think he's been a Bush enabler

on foreign policy and Constitutional issues. He's been a thorn in Chimpy and Dick's side for at least 5 years now, and he's cast quite a few votes with Democrats, and also put up/cosponsored legislation that went against Chimpy's plan. Obviously he knew better than to vote for that IWR--but the political pressure to go along with his party and President must have been intense. Chaffee was able to resist, but he was a liberal Repub from New England, used to crossing the aisle and not catching much flack. Hagel was from the other side of the GOP spectrum as a conservative, and many people here in Nebraska would have held a tar-and-feather party if he'd voted against the Repub President during that War Fever "let's put a boot up their ass" time--look at the beating he gets even NOW for opposing the war, even when most Americans agree it's a shitpile. You shouldn't hold him to a higher standard, even higher than our own Dems, like Hillary, Edwards, Biden, Dodd, and Ben Nelson--how is that fair?

[LiberalAndProud]

72. I'm not allowed to say what I think about Ben on this board

since there's no Dem to oppose him. He is what he is. And please don't assume that I'm pro-Hillary. I'm pro-Democrat. I wasn't able to caucus this year and hadn't made up my mind before it, so I'll just assume that the best candidate will be running against McCain in the GE. It's a win-win for me. You made some good points in Hagel's defense. He did commit political suicide in this state to try to repair the damage. And I think it's great that he's talking good about a Democrat instead of the presumptive nominee who REALLY scares me.

Peace wienerdoggie. I really do think you're one of the good guys.
:hug:

[TwilightGardener]

74. ...

:pals:

[RazBerryBeret]

75. he was talked into it....

"Hagel said Bush personally assured him that he would exhaust diplomatic avenues before committing troops to Iraq. The senator said he voted for the war resolution based on those assurances, but regrets the vote because it's now clear that lawmakers were presented with lies and wishful thinking."

Like a LOT of people we know.....
he now admits he was lied to....and that he fell for it.

[LiberalAndProud]

78. Point taken.

I'd like a link to that quote if you have one. That is what Kerry told us, so * must have seemed sincere.

Alhough...
It's just that I didn't believe Bush's personal assurances at the time. We had boots on the ground at the border and * needed any excuse from the Senate to move forward. He got it. I know the machine had spun the danger danger danger. And I watched Powell give his sales pitch at the U.N. This administration was selling personal assurances, cake walks, flowers and a cheering citizenry, and this war will pay for itself. Maybe I'm more astute than the average politician, but I was pretty sure there was a lie in there somewhere.

[RazBerryBeret]

80. I was also

sure there was a lie in there....

but I guess if you were a politician (which I could never be, I'm too honest and free willed)...you wouldn't want to be the one who voted against doing something that could save american lives? there would have been a lot of pressure, and your party would persecute you and then IF something DID happen....they are too focused on their positions and re-elections (IMO)....

here's the link:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080320/ap_on_re_us/hagel_book

then something a little more damning (again, IMO)
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/24/hagel-iraq-resolution/

if the administration came out with an all encompassing war ANYWHERE in the middle east (crazy)....I'm afraid that would have solidified my opinion that something smelled about the entire resolution....

[TwilightGardener]

22. Hagel also said Obama was one of the most "talented, agile" politicians

he's ever known, and that we need a President with a 21st century mindset (when talking about Obama's generational advantage). I expect a full endorsement by summer. Thanks, Chuck! :loveya:

[Inuca]

88. I went to the book signing

I told you about, where he said more of the same. Strong words of praise for the race speech (couragous, etc.) while saying that the issue will not go away and in this context deploring what he called the "pixelization" (I really liked the term) of the way the media and not only addresses political issues. He used again "agile" when describing Obama, adding not only as a politician ("though that is not necessarily an insult" - very approximate quote) but as a person in general. Also "extremely intelligent" and "there is something special about him" or something very close to this (it was quite suprising to hear the rational and coldly analytical Hagel to speak in such a way). I had the feeling that, in the more intimate and relaxed atmosphere of a bookstore, he may have gotten a bit carried away in his praise (which was quite striking to hear, even after I read the comments I linked to in the OP) so he added something like "what I said should not be read as an endorsement, but you asked, and this is what I think". So your tea leaves may be right, he might end up endorsing Obama :-), we shall see....

[mmonk]

23. This part of Senator Hagel's comments I agree with :

""In a democracy", said Hagel, "people push something else out there" to take the place or transform institutions. He believes that that is what this election will ultimately be about."

[AX10]

27. Hagel is very conservative.

Suddenly because of the Iraq war and his kind words about Obama, he's now the new "hero" of the left. :eyes:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

48. Hagel owns controlling shares in ES&S which counts 80% of all vote casts

[Inuca]

87. Didn't already mention this

in this thread alone at least 4 times? Repetition will not change the color nor the texture of the tin.

[Drunken Irishman]

56. I don't know, isn't that why people on here started loving John Murtha?

You know, the same anti-choice, social conservative Murtha who, outside of the Iraq War, has been at odds with progressives in the Democratic Party for quite some time?

Guess what, I still respect John Murtha and I respect Hagel. I do not believe every Republican who walked this earth is evil...I do think there are some good ones and Hagel stood up to his party, something Hillary never did on Iraq. For that, I respect him. I don't have to vote for him or support his ideas, but I can respect him.

[Hoof Hearted]

28. Nice. Now we hail Hagel as some knd of sage. Republicans are great.

Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick.

[DemVet]

45. No kidding.

The minute a 'pub has something to good to say about Obama, they're ready to make the guy a saint.

[JBoy]

34. Funny which Republicans are behind which democratic candidate

Thoughtful Republicans, like Hagel, say Obama is best to unite the country.

Dickheads, like Limbaugh, say vote for Hillary.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

37. Funny that Hagel owns the company that counts all the votes eh?

[TwilightGardener]

47. He owns shares of the parent company--he doesn't "own" the voting-machine company.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

59. Hagel owns CONTROLLING shares......link

http://creditsuit.org/credit.php?/blog/comments/224/

<snip>

"Chuck Hagel and Nebraska's Upset

"If you want to win the election, just control the machines."
- Charlie Matulka, Nebraska Senatorial Candidate


Chuck Hagel first ran for the U.S. Senate in Nebraska in 1996. Electronic voting machines owned by Election Systems & Software (ES&S) reported that he had won both the primaries and the general election in unprecedented victories. His 1996 victory was considered one of the biggest upsets of that election. He was the first Republican to win a Nebraska senatorial campaign in 24 years and won virtually every demographic group, including many largely black communities that had never before voted Republican.

Six years later Hagel ran again against Democrat Charlie Matulka in 2002, and won in a landslide. He was re-elected to his second term with 83% of the vote: the biggest political victory in the history of Nebraska. Again, the votes were counted by ES&S, now the largest voting machine company in America.

While these victories could be dismissed simply as a Republican upset, a January 2003 article in the independent Washington paper The Hill revealed interesting details about Hagel's business investments and casts a different light on his election successes. Chuck Hagel was CEO of ES&S (then AIS) until 1995 and he is still a major stockholder of the parent company of ES&S, McCarthy & Company. Hagel resigned as CEO of ES&S to run for the Senate and resigned as president of the parent company McCarthy & Company following his election (where he remains a major investor).

Today, the McCarthy Group is run by Michael McCarthy, who happens to be Chuck Hagel's treasurer. Hagel's financials still list the McCarthy Group as an asset, with his investment valued at $1-$5 million. Campaign finance reports show that Michael McCarthy also served as treasurer for Hagel until December of 2002.

ES&S also has a connection to the Bush family. Jeb Bush's first choice as running mate in 1998 was Sandra Mortham who was a paid lobbyist for ES&S and received a commission for every county that bought its touch-screen machines.

The Hill's revelations of Hagel's conflict of interest was disturbing enough to cause Jan Baran, one of the most powerful Republican lawyers in Washington D.C., and Lou Ann Linehan, Senator Chuck Hagel's Chief of Staff, to walk into The Hill's offices to "discuss" the story. According to the author of the article, Alex Bolton, nothing similar had happened in the three-and-a-half years he's worked for the paper. It was, no doubt, a story Hagel would rather see go unreported."





http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm

and

http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2004/03/03_200.html

<snip>

A little less than eight months after stepping down as director of AISaka ES&S), Hagel surprised national pundits and defied early polls by defeating Benjamin Nelson, the state's popular former governor. It was Hagel's first try for public office. Nebraska elections officials told The Hill that machines made by AIS probably tallied 85 percent of the votes cast in the 1996 vote, although Nelson never drew attention to the connection. Hagel won again in 2002, by a far healthier margin. That vote is still angrily disputed by Hagel's Democratic opponent, Charlie Matulka, who did try to make Hagel's ties to ES&S an issue in the race and who asked that state elections officials conduct a hand recount of the vote. That request was rebuffed, because Hagel's margin of victory was so large.


If the Republican ties at Diebold and ES&S aren't enough to cause concern, argues election reform activist Bev Harris, the companies' past performances and current practices should be. Harris is author of Black Box Voting, and the woman behind the BlackBoxVoting.com web site.

[TwilightGardener]

62. He owns part of the parent company. Like I said.

Old stuff--his Senate career is ending, and the people of Nebraska never questioned his legitimacy or integrity.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

65. Hagel will count the PA votes too.......

The $1.3 million contract for optical scanning equipment and paper ballots that the county will purchase from Election Systems & Software Inc. (ES&S) was the board's second choice, Shedlock said. Voters liked using touch-screen equipment, she said, which played into the board's choice in replacing the county's existing touch screens with the new models, she said.

The county's touch-screen machines, however, were decertified by state elections officials last year because the vendor, Advanced Voting Solutions Inc. (AVS) in Frisco, Texas, wanted to charge fees for software changes needed to ensure certification for the devices. County officials said the company should foot the bill for the work. The AVS machines were purchased in 2006 for $1.7 million, which will be reimbursed by the state to allow the purchase of the new ES&S machines.

An AVS spokesman could not be reached today. Calls to two telephone numbers for the company said the lines had been disconnected.

The deal with ES&S includes 175 optical scanners to equip 137 voting locations throughout the county, plus spares. Also included are 140 ES&S AutoMark ballot-marking devices, which enable voters with disabilities to fill out their own ballots without assistance.

ES&S is expected to complete delivery of the new equipment to the county by March 24, in time for Pennsylvania's April 22 presidential primary.

Maryann Spellman Young, Lackawanna County's director of elections, said the delivery date will give the county plenty of time to train its poll workers and other election officials on how to use the new devices.

[TwilightGardener]

66. LOL! When Hillary wins, then, we can all blame Chuck!

[Inuca]

86. Hagel vs. Limbaugh

I heard one of the recent NPR interviews where Hagel was asked about the nasty things said about him by Limbaugh and others of the same ilk. He replied (exact quote I think) that he considers them a badge of honor. Great answer.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

36. Hagel owns the company ES&S that counts Obama's votes

[OzarkDem]

40. Fix is in?

Not in Ohio, anyway.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

67. Hagels company will be counting the PA votes tho.....

The $1.3 million contract for optical scanning equipment and paper ballots that the county will purchase from Election Systems & Software Inc. (ES&S) was the board's second choice, Shedlock said. Voters liked using touch-screen equipment, she said, which played into the board's choice in replacing the county's existing touch screens with the new models, she said.

The county's touch-screen machines, however, were decertified by state elections officials last year because the vendor, Advanced Voting Solutions Inc. (AVS) in Frisco, Texas, wanted to charge fees for software changes needed to ensure certification for the devices. County officials said the company should foot the bill for the work. The AVS machines were purchased in 2006 for $1.7 million, which will be reimbursed by the state to allow the purchase of the new ES&S machines.

An AVS spokesman could not be reached today. Calls to two telephone numbers for the company said the lines had been disconnected.

The deal with ES&S includes 175 optical scanners to equip 137 voting locations throughout the county, plus spares. Also included are 140 ES&S AutoMark ballot-marking devices, which enable voters with disabilities to fill out their own ballots without assistance.

ES&S is expected to complete delivery of the new equipment to the county by March 24, in time for Pennsylvania's April 22 presidential primary.

Maryann Spellman Young, Lackawanna County's director of elections, said the delivery date will give the county plenty of time to train its poll workers and other election officials on how to use the new devices.

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=standards_and_legal_issues&articleId=9066978&taxonomyId=146

[OzarkDem]

39. I don't let the GOP choose my candidates, sorry

Its odd that Obama supporters listen to the GOP, though. Bizrre.

This is no help for Obama, its a strike against him. He's a DINO.

[msallied]

41. No, you let your candidate rub up against the GOP.

Talk about DINO. Jeez.

[OzarkDem]

44. Welcome to DU

Sorry you picked on someone who understands politics and isnt swayed by oppo talking points.

[msallied]

51. How perfectly arrogant, condescending, and delusional of you.

Typical of a Hillary supporter.

And I've been here long enough to be familiar with your particular pathology. And yes, it's a pathology.

[OzarkDem]

55. There you go again

talking like an Obama attack drone.

If you can't discuss issues or something substantive instead of trying to spread rumor and innuendo and create dissension among Dems, get lost.

[Inuca]

83. You think that your comment above shows you understand politics?

I an sorry, but I think a narrow mind that tends to compartmentalize complex issues into narrow boxes. It is very easy to apply meaningless labels. But they do not mean much.

[JBoy]

42. LOL! Let me clarify the situation for you.

Hagel says Obama is good.
Hillary say McCain is good.

Republican likes Obama.
Hillary likes Republican.

One of these candidates is not like the other.

[OzarkDem]

43. I reject your frame

Sorry, but its invalid.

[Thickasabrick]

52. Excellent!! I accept your "frame" - nice framework.

[msallied]

54. Of course you accept the frame of the argument.

You have an operable brain, as evidenced by the above litmus test. OzarkDem on the other hand... well... yeah.

[Inuca]

84. Nice summary :-) n/t

[totodeinhere]

69. Nobody is asking you to let the GOP choose your candidate.

You are free to choose whomever you want. But if we are going to win the general election wouldn't it be helpful to get Republican votes? So I think it's a good thing that a prominent Republican is saying kind words about Obama. And it bodes well for bringing the country together after the election.

[Strelnikov_]

49. "he believes the inventory of problems the next President will face is unprecedented"

Hagel also stated that he believes the inventory of problems the next President will face is unprecedented and that that is why it is so important that the country be brought together so that it could really solve problems. Although Hagel did not endorse Obama, he did not rule out the possibility.

He is right on this point. There is a train wreck of unprecedented scale (over the last 60 years) heading our way.

[stevenleser]

57. Yes, I am not sure most people understand the scope of the problems

even just considering the economic ones, I think we are in worse shape than we were in 1930 after the crash and the depression started to sink in. More on that in an article later.

[Strelnikov_]

73. FDR: "Want amid plenty"

In the 30's the US was the Saudi Arabia of the world.

Today, we import 67% of our petroleum, a rapidly increasing portion of our natural gas, all dependent on competitors we are bidding against in the declining worldwide energy export market continuing to loan us money.

If we were a healthy economy, a healthy democracy, we could overcome the challenges posed by resource depletion, lead by the the decline of fossil energy resources.

With the corrupt, crony-capitalist system, with the uninformed, misinformed and basically ignorant electorate we find ourselves . .

With the sound of distant thunder . . .


Which is why I back Obama. He seems to have the ability to inspire, and seems to be willing to think outside the box. He has the strongest chance to hold the center.

[Life Long Dem]

77. Agree. They will love Barack Hussein Obama!

:grouphug:

[Bigleaf]

81. I LOVE this video of Hagel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wlMxxyKztw

[malletgirl02]

85. Great Video nt.

[book_worm]

89. I hope Republicans like Hagel and Bloomberg will endorse Obama

that will be very helpful come November.

[Tribetime]

92. saw on olbermann tonight , I swear he's thinking of leaving the r's