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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 06:49 AM
Original message
A Tale of Two Sources
"By the end of September, the president’s war resolution was no sure thing. The White House had trimmed it back, dumping the language that authorized Bush to go to war to achieve stability in the region. Still, the White House faced a threat. Senator Joe Biden and two Republican senators on his foreign relations committee – Richard Lugar and Chuck Hagel – were pushing an alternative that would narrow the president’s authority further. Under their proposal, Bush would be able to attack Iraq only for the purpose of destroying Iraq’s WMDs and only after seeking UN approval. If the United Nations said no, Bush would have to come back to Congress and demonstrate that the Iraqi weapons threat was so ‘grave’ that only military action could eliminate it. The Biden-Lugar measure was attracting support from both Democrats and Republicans. And, according to Biden, he and his allies were getting backdoor advice and encouragement from the administration’s reluctant warriors: Powell and Armitage. The White House was worried about Biden’s endeavor, and Bush was furious. ‘I don’t want a resolution such as this that ties my hands,’ he told Senator Trent Lott. The president, according to Lott, gave him an emphatic order: ‘Derail the Biden legislation, and make sure its language never sees the light of day.’

"But it was Dick Gephardt, the Democratic leader in the House and past and future presidential candidate, who derailed the bipartisan effort. He had already said he thought Iraq was a threat and that he was open to backing the president. …Gephardt’s thinking had been shaped by the former Clinton national security aides, including Holbrooke, Pollack, and James Steinberg, who were arguing that Saddam had to be confronted. But Biden and other Democrats wondered if another factor was influencing Gephardt: presidential politics. Gephardt, an earnest and dogged politician, was determined to run in 2004. …Eleven years earlier, he had voted against the first Persian Gulf War. If he cast a similar vote now, he could expect to be tagged by Republicans as soft and too hesitant to use military force. Gephardt reached an agreement with the president’s negotiators. At 1:15 in the afternoon on October 2, the White House held a Rose Garden ceremony with a crowd of senators and representatives from both parties to announce a resolution had been finalized. Standing right next to Bush, along with Hastert and Lott, was Gephardt.

"Gephardt had been urged by his political advisers to be by Bush’s side at the White House that day. …. Gephardt’s decision to back the president’s resolution killed Biden’s bipartisan alternative in the Senate and guaranteed a victory for the White House. When Biden consulted with Senate Republicans, they all said the same thing: How can we be to the left of Dick Gephardt? Biden’s effort to impose conditions on Bush’s march to war was finished."
--Michael Isikoff and David Corn; Hubris; 2006; pages 127-128.

{1} The above quote comes from Chapter 7, "A Tale of Two Sources," from Corn & Isikoff’s book. I think it is important information to consider when discussing the 2008 democratic primary, for a couple of reasons.

We have two candidates who are hoping to run against Republican John McCain in November. In the fall campaign, the issue of the war in Iraq will play a central role. McCain supported President Bush’s push to war in Iraq, and has stated that he thinks the US may need to remain in Iraq for at least another 100 years.

Senator Hillary Clinton voted for the war, but has since said that if she knew then what she knows now, she would have voted differently.

Barack Obama was not in the US Senate at the time, but is firmly on record as being opposed to the Bush-Cheney march to war.

Democrats backing each of the two candidates take very different positions on the significance of Clinton and Obama’s positions at the time the administration was pushing for war. Some Clinton supporters believe that members of the congress simply didn’t know the administration was lying about the "threat" that Iraq posed. The quotes from "Hubris" and from Bob Woodward’s "State of Denial," quoted below, suggest otherwise.

More, in "Hubris," we see that Dick Gephard was willing not only to ignore the information that was available, but would betray both democrats and republicans who were trying to keep our nation out of an unnecessary war. Why did Gephardt behave in such manner? For one reason: he placed his presidential ambitions above anything and everything else.

Some people are pointing to Chuck Hagel’s support of Senator Barack Obama as if it undercuts Obama’s credibility. When we take into account the actual history of Hagel’s opposition to the Iraq war, it is those attacks on Hagel which lack credibility.


"On September 29, 2005, I went to the Senate to have breakfast with Senator Carl Levin, 71, of Michigan, a 26-year Senate veteran and the ranking Democrat on the Armed Services Committee. … Before the war, he had believed that Saddam had WMD but he didn’t think that was a good enough reason to invade. Levin voted against the war ….

" ‘I tried in 10 different ways to get that declassified,’ Levin said. ‘Because if we could have brought out in advance of the attack that we had not shared with the U.N. all of the sites that we were suspicious of, it would have put a chill on the decision to go to war.’ ….

"Levin said that the inspection process was incomplete, not thorough. It could have delayed the war, he believed, but not stopped it. He complained about ‘all of the shadings, exaggerations, and hype’ about WMD by Bush and Cheney and said it ‘showed the most willful and purposeful intent’ to create a deception. ….

" ‘Powell had the potential to change the course here,’ Levin continued. ….’If he told the president that this is the wrong course,’ Levin said. ‘I don’t think he ever realized what power lay in his hands, and that’s an abdiction. I think Powell has tremendous power.’ He said Powell had a number of things he could have done to slow down if not possibly stop the war. He could have threatened to resign or insisted that the U.N. weapons inspectors be allowed to continue, Levin said. When Bush asked Powell in January 2003 if he would be with him in the war, Levin said, Powell was at the peak of his influence.

" ‘Can you imagine what would have happened if he’d said, "I’ve got to give that a little thought"? Can you imagine the power of that one person to change the course? He had it’."
--Bob Woodward; State of Denial; 2006; pages 415-417.

{2} From Woodward’s book, we find more information that shows there were reasons for democrats in congress to question the Bush march to war in Iraq. Claims that congress didn’t know that Bush and Cheney were pushing misinformation are without simply wrong.

Senator Levin raises a most important point for democrats to consider. It goes beyond what role Colin Powell might have played, were he motivated by conscience in 2003. Rather, it has to do with the power that an individual has to seek the truth, and to stand up for their country and do the right thing, regardless of the consequences.

Colin Powell lacked the spine to stand up to President Bush and VP Cheney. Dick Gephardt was so intent on becoming president, that he blocked out all thoughts about the horrors that his support for the war would cause. He needed that Rose Garden photo opportunity.

We need a different type of leader.

When our democratic nominee debates Senator John McCain this fall, the topics will include the war in Iraq, national security, and US policy in the Middle East and other lands. Do we want the democratic candidate to be Senator Clinton, who voted for the war? Or for Senator Obama, who spoke out against the war? I think the choice is obvious.
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psychmommy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. i remember how incredulous i was back then
about gephart. how could our dem leaders fall in line like that with the repubs. i remember some backbone back then and i was so disheartened when they started falling in line for this bs. i think biden is highly underrated and should seriously be considered for the vice. the un weapons inspectors were telling us. joe wilson was telling us. i would truly like to forget those days. it does give me a little hope that maybe we can get back to the party's working together for the good of the people like you say biden and luger tried to do. this has been an ugly 8 plus years we need change immediately.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Biden
should be on any short list for VP. I also think that he would be the single best choice for Secretary of State.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Absolutely.
Edited on Sun Mar-30-08 08:37 AM by mmonk
The thought has been ricocheting in my mind. My first choice would be Samantha Power but I would go with Biden. Ideally, I would like both in an Obama administration.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. That's why Gephardt went after Dean so hard in early 2004.
He defended the Iraq War and the reasons for invading Iraq. I wonder if he has considered denouncing the war lately. He didn't say much after he left Congress.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. It was disappointing.
There were reasons to like Gephardt. He might have made a good Secretary of Labor. But He betrayed the public when he put his ambition before the good of the country. It is important that we examine the motivations of elected leaders when evaluating their qualifications for office, as other democrats may have behaved in a manner similar to Gephardt.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. I had liked Gephardt, his labor message
This was when I was starting to wake up and pay attention to politics. Now that I have been reading DU for almost 4 years, and particularly your essays, I am more aware of the motivations behind certain people. Thank you for helping me get a grasp of the bigger political picture.



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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Ah
I see your thinking was along the lines of mine
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yes.
Edited on Sun Mar-30-08 09:25 AM by mmonk
Ambition over principle and truthfulness of position is what we should look out for.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
4. Exactly.
This country needs a truthful discussion on this issue it has not gotten. With Obama, even the press will have to engage in it.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. "Before we can set out
on the road to success, we have to know where we are going, and before we can know that we must determine where we have been in the past." -- President John F. Kennedy; Introduction; The American Heritage Book of Indians.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
8. Another Thing About Gephardt
is how he and Kerry combined and colluded to knock Dean out of the race. They used every bit of their beltway influence as well as the play they had with the media made a seeming clown of him. Perhaps Gephardt thought he was going to be named veep. Both Kerry & Gephardt ended up being huge disappointments.
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DeeDeeNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. Kerry did the same thing Gephardt did
Even though he voted against the first Gulf War, he voted to authorize * to invade Iraq primarily because he was thinking ahead to his presidential aspirations, most likely to avoid being tagged by the Rethuglicans as "weak" on security. It's upsetting to see how many Democrats put personal political ambitions over what they know is right.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
11. "He needed that Rose Garden photo opportunity."
It took me a while to get to this thread, as I had to hide all the inane crap being peddled this morning in GD-P.... so, great OP! :D

:kick:



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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I'm looking forward
to matching Barack Obama against John McCain in the fall. Although my hopes for an extended republican primary didn't pan out, Senator McCain has appeared tired and confused in recent weeks. His strengths have never been an ability to think on his feet or debate, and I think the contrast between him and Obama will be stark, indeed.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Yes, I REALLY look forward to watching Obama ask McCain questions.
:D




I need some coffee.
:hangover:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Love that graphic.
Well done.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Not A Fair Match-up
Which is why McCain shouldn't win, there is no question who the superior intellect is. Watching McCain recently reminds me of Reagan, how he needed someone to whisper in his ear. As to age, it doesn't necessarily have to be a factor but I believe that in his case it is. And regarding his response to the age thing where he always points to his long lived mother...why doesn't anyone asked him how old his father was when he passed? He was 71.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. In some discussions,
I have heard journalists adding age to a list with sex and race, as things that some voters have a hang-up about. The truth is that "age" is listed as a qualification for a person running for the presidency. The Founding Fathers believed that a person should have to be a certain age in order to be qualified for serving as chief executive. I do not view issues of age in quite the same context as racism and sexism.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. As To Age, I Generally Agree With You
But recent press conferences where McCain
mis-spoke' and had to be corrected or have the record corrected by his handlers Lieberman and Graham, left me disturbed. It used to make me crazy when it was obvious that Reagan was failing mentally that his presidency wasn't challenged. Who really was in charge? And if McCain is suffering from stress now, on the campaign trail, what would it be like if he was placed in the highest office in the land? Who will be in charge then? Will we have another 8 years of a veep running the country?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. It kind of makes
it fun to think about who he will have on the ticket with him. Certainly, he will pick someone younger than himself. As a rule, the top dog tries to pick a candidate for VP who isn't going to look stronger. The republican field offers numerous younger, duller candidates than McCain. But I think that there are some forces within their party pushing for it to be Condi Rice, which if it happened, would make McCain seem like a more tired candidate.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Now That Would Be A Fun Twosome For The Dems To Run Against
Even better than McBush/Bush
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. It's possible.
The republican primary showed, much like the democratic party, that the opposition party is made up of several competing factions. At least one group is suggesting that she would be a strong VP candidate, and help make McCain more likely to win. We also remember how Bush the Elder, who represents another group, being quoted in Woodward's book (State of Denial) as saying, "Condi sure has been a disappointment." She could, by the republican convention, have the support of the George W crowd, the Willardites, and even the Huckleberries.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. A Twofer
A woman and a minority. Not trying to sound flip but if they put her forward I would bet a hundred million that that would be the thinking.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
16. Excellent analysis and spot on as usual, H2O Man
Kicking up for others to read.

Recommended.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. Thank you. n/t
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
17. Excellent piece, as always
:thumbsup:

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. I like that picture.
And thank you.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
21. I'll never forget that just weeks before his death,
Senator Wellstone and his wife Shelia attended a small gathering with supporters in an upper duplex in Uptown Minneapolis. Senator Wellstone was in a highly contentious re-election campaign against Norm Coleman, who was bound at the hip with George Bush. The Senator had been involved an an especially heated Foreign Relations Committee hearing earlier that day, but when he arrived at the gathering, and despite the pain he experienced ascending the long staircase (as a result of his back problems) to the apartment, he was fired up and ready to inspire us. We were hanging on his every word, when he told us that he had an important announcement to make.

He announced that after weighing all of the evidence and lack there of, and after much soul searching, he had decided to vote *no* on the Iraq War Resolution. Well the room full of 25 supporters erupted in cheers. The most remarkable thing about this experience is that he decided to make this historic announcement to a small room full of John and Jane Q. Minnesotans and not to the press. He did make the announcement to the press thereafter, but that he sharedthe news with us first, a small group of people, in such an intimate setting made me truly understand what it was to know an honorable man. He knew that his decision may very well sink his campaign, but that he could only vote his conscience. He had to leave our gathering early, because he and Shelia had to attend a military funeral in northern Minnesota, but not before wholly expressing his gratitude for the passionate support he received from his volunteers. That was the last time I was face to face with the Senator, for he and and his plane full of loved ones perished in a crash several weeks later. The Senator put Country and what was right, before any political aspirations and ambitions. Remarkably, after his IWR vote, he did rise in the polls, because people respected him and his conscience.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. That is
the definition of political courage.

It is a shame that the members of congress do not take the time to read Senator John F. Kennedy's 1955 book "Profiles in Courage." It was re-issued in December of 1963, with a foreword by his brother Robert. In my opinion, a chapter could be added to include Senator Wellstone.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
22. Hillary's calculation on the war
was similar to Gephardt's, but for her, as a prospective female presidential candidate, it was even more important. She "knew" that a vote against the war would doom her chances by giving the GOP bullet-proof evidence of her foreign policy "weakness".

Sometimes I think that if even a modest amount of WMDs had been found, her calculation would have worked out as planned.

Perhaps the more important lesson is the value of being authentic above strategically positioning oneself.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Appetites above values and ambitions above principles.
She just doesn't "go negative" ... she lives there. :shrug:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
32. That's it! the trillion dollar question!
"Do we want the democratic candidate to be Senator Clinton, who voted for the war? Or for Senator Obama, who spoke out against the war?"

I also think that the choice is obvious.
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