She seems to really believe we gave Iraqis "the gift of freedom."

[madfloridian]

On the anniversary of the death of 4000 soldiers...and only God knows how many Iraqis....here was the statement from Hillary Clinton.

March 24, 2008...the "gift of freedom"

The Candidates on Iraq and the 4000

"In the last five years, our soldiers have done everything we asked of them and more. They were asked to remove Saddam Hussein from power and bring him to justice and they did. They were asked to give the Iraqi people the opportunity for free and fair elections and they did. They were asked to give the Iraqi government the space and time for political reconciliation, and they did. So for every American soldier who has made the ultimate sacrifice for this mission, we should imagine carved in stone: 'They gave their life for the greatest gift one can give to a fellow human being, the gift of freedom.'

She said this three times before.

The gift of Freedom

In Pittsburgh.

"And I believe that at the same time that we have to make clear to the Iraqis that they have been given the greatest gift that a human being can give another human being – the gift of freedom. And it is up to them to decide how they will use that precious gift that has been paid for with the blood and sacrifice and treasure of the United States of America."

No, it is not up to them. It is up to their occupiers.

In Austin, Texas.

There was nothing accidental about this line. She delivered it in response to two Iraq veterans introduced at a town hall meeting at the Austin Convention Center by her friend and campaign surrogate Ted Danson. She liked the line enough that she delivered it again a couple of hours later, at a campaign-closing rally at a basketball arena in south Austin. "The gift of freedom" is, of course, a curious way to describe an unprovoked invasion and occupation causing hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths and leaving just about every aspect of life chaotic and fraught with daily dangers. To then lay responsibility for the mess on the Iraqis -- we did our bit, now you do yours -- is the worst kind of dishonesty, a complete abdication of moral principles.

Andrew Gumbel at Huffington Post

Bill Clinton himself, according to an Alternet article, once got angry with a group of people who are forming a liberal media alliance. They asked him about Iraq.

In probably the book's most riveting scene, former President Bill Clinton shows up as a surprise guest at the Austin DA confab. After Clinton's usual smooth presentation, Guy Saperstein, one of America's most successful trial lawyers and a DA expert in foreign affairs and healthcare, rose to ask a question. Saperstein mentioned that John Edwards had already apologized about voting to authorize the Iraq war. "Why shouldn't every Democrat who voted for the war -- including presumably Hillary Clinton -- do the same thing? How were Democrats supposed to have any credibility if they wouldn't admit when they had been so calamitously wrong."

Clinton quickly went ballistic: "He leaned forward belligerently and pointed a finger at Saperstein. 'You're wrong,' he said. 'Everything you just said is totally wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.'" He went on to explain away Hillary's vote on the war and tell Saperstein he wasn't productive. "Only in this party do we eat our own. You can go on misrepresenting and bashing our own people, but I am sick and tired of it."

Clinton later apologized and realized he had made an error, but it was too late for many of the people in Austin. On the surface, the exchange had been about the war, but it symbolized much more: "It had been about Clintonism itself and the centrist governing ethos that had led the party to this place in its history." To the progressives, Clinton's desire to remake the Democratic Party "had stripped the party of its moral authority."

Bloggers and Billionaires, MoveOn and Howard Dean: The Battle for the Soul of the Democratic Party

The philosophy of the centrists who control the party has been to supposedly meet in the middle. The reality is their tactics have involved moving farther to the right to get along. That is how we got into Iraq. Not to say the ones who approved it really really wanted war and killing....but they knew it could happen.

We did not give them the "gift of freedom."

We gave them despair.

[EFerrari]

1. Oh, barf.

:puke:

[Leopolds Ghost]

93. Sounds like Hillary is promising to build an Iraq War memorial and it should be "carved in stone"-->

'They gave their life for the greatest gift one can
give to a fellow human being, the gift of freedom.'

Sounds like one of those WWI memorials nobody visits anymore
because we can't remember why it was fought. A sad attempt to
make the deaths about something larger than simple sacrifice.

[DJ13]

2. Hillary blurs the lines between Dem & neocon

Its getting harder and harder to tell which she is anymore.

[dchill]

4. She belongs to the N.O. party...

Narcissistic Opportunist. That is all.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Perfect!

You nailed it. :)

[scrucon]

71. Living under Saddam Husseins jackbooted foot with his sons randomly grabbing women off the street

for their sexual gratification was not freedom. And now, they are free. I don't think our people should've died to make the Iraqis free, but I can't deal with all this nonsense that the dumocrats are spewing here about them not being free. The Iraqi people have some problems now, but every free people does.

[hfojvt]

80. depends on who you ask

According to some Republicans now, people there are living under Islamic law. Whereas before women could drive and have jobs and dress up, now they have to wear headscarves and must be accompanied by a male relative to go anywhere. Whereas before they had running water and electricity and markets, now they have shortages, kidnappings, roadside bombs. What they actually have has not been determined until they have some kind of stability. It's extremely doubtful that it will end up like Britain, Canada, or Germany, like a typical western democracy.

Oh, and do you have a link about his sons, because that sounds like the weapons of mass destruction or the babies that were thrown out of incubators.

[scrucon]

85. Ok, I agree with you

because you're talking sense. You'll remember, I did say they have some problems now. And, as you said, what they actually have has not been determined until they have some kind of stability. I also agree that they probably won't end up like the UK, Canada or Germany. It's too early to tell, but at the very least, they're not being trampled by Saddam, Uday and Qusay.

I'll let you find the links yourself.

[hfojvt]

88. I especially remember this column from before the war

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9800E5D61538F932A35753C1A9649C8B63

"More broadly, in a region where women are treated as doormats, Iraq offers an example of how an Arab country can adhere to Islam and yet provide women with opportunities.

''I look at women in Saudi Arabia, and I feel sorry for them,'' said Thuha Farook, a young woman doctor in Basra. ''They can't learn. They can't improve themselves.''

At the Basra Maternity and Pediatric Teaching Hospital, 25 of the 26 students in ob-gyn are women. Across town, 54 percent of Basra University's students are female."

[scrucon]

89. That's true, too.

It's also true of other Arab countries in the region, including the one where I lived for a while. But truths are always ineluctable and they're not mutually exclusive.

[PaulaFarrell]

81. Free?? free to do what?

Women's rights are a memory, parents can't even send their children to school safely, the water is contaminated, the electricity doesn't work, every family has lost members due to violence, and there are millions of refugees. So what exactly are they free to do? Cower in their homes while the militias fight it out?

By the way, if you think women are safer from assault now, you have not got a single clue what is going on there.

[grantcart]

3. well with that philosophy we should invade North Korea tomorrow

[Umbram]

45. Don't tempt her. (nt)

[panader0]

5. How about we give 'em Affirmative Action too!

She sounds like Buchanan saying how great we made the lives of the slaves.

[ananda]

6. It's amazing to me how..

.. people can bandy the word freedom about
as if they knew one thing about it.

America hasn't been a free country for a good
while, if ever.

[pegleg]

33. Let's just say freer than most.

[scrucon]

72. Thanks for saying that.

Sometimes the open displays of dumbery on this site are jarring.

[scrucon]

73. And to those of you who say we are stealing their oil,

you wanna tell us why we're playing close to $4/gal. for it now? Please don't tell me you conspiracy fantasies.

[MattBaggins]

84. hey fella FR is that away----->

How in the heck would you come to a conclusion that if the oil were being stolen the cost savings would be passed on to us?

You get your news from Fox-Jazeerea don't you?

[scrucon]

86. Thanks for the directions, Bilbo.

I probably get my news from the same sources that you do, I just don't labour under the delusions and misapprehensions that plague your thought process. If you have a theory about what is happening to the cost savings that meets some minimal standards of sensibility, please posit it. If, rather, you think that the oil is being sent to a ranch in Crawford, keep it to yourself. Or not. I don't much care what you do.

Here, on DU, I would like us to have reasoned dialogue.

[MattBaggins]

90. Looking at most of the sheer nonsense you have posted

you are looking for anything but reasoned dialogue.

Calling people dumocrats, claiming to understand statistics and believing that Clinton and Obama each have a 50% chance of winning? Spare me.

[scrucon]

91. No theory, then?

Thanks, at least, for sparing us. That's quite dignified, I must admit.

[MattBaggins]

94. theory on what?

Are you still on the 5$ oil means the war wasn't about oil.

Look Bin Laden was a shake down and protection artist; nothing more than a mafia boss. He wanted to be paid for allowing Unical access to Afghanistan and America told him to bugger off so he struck at us. As for Iraq I notice we didn't choose to go into Somalia or any of the African countries with real ties to Terrorism and just as great a need for "liberation". No we chose the paper tiger we knew had been defanged a long time ago but just happens to be oil rich.

Now we can argue over whether we are "stealing" or "liberating" the oil; but oil and natural gas are at the core of both these wars.

I don't even really care if you call me a tin foil crazy. I just find that "5$ gas = not a war for oil" is a form of twisted logic used to excuse this war.

---Self edited to remove uncalled for ad hominem attacks

[scrucon]

97. On the price of oil.

First, a confession. I'm not very bright.

Second, I have no idea about Unical and access to Afghanistan. This is the first I'm hearing of it. It is also, of course, one more piece of evidence in defense of what I said first.

Third, what the dickens Afghanistan has to do with the price of oil, I have no idea. If you're willing to expound on it, I would be sincerely appreciative.

But having said all that and repeating again that I'm not very bright, I still have to say, I'm not inclined to say that you or anybody else here is all that much smarter than I am. And it's not a very high threshold to begin with.

[MattBaggins]

99. Topography

The Caspian Sea Region has some of the richest untapped natural gas and oil reserves to date. We want access to the area and Afghanistan is that foothold. Wonder why Russia let all those countries go but won't let Chechnya leave? That nation is on the northern border.

We were not about to allow the Taliban to spread through out Central Asia. The Taliban is more like the FARC just a Mafia organization claiming to be a revolutionary force but really just trying to get their hands on oil and drug money. Stopping the Taliban from spreading is indeed a good thing but the reason behind it is about oil.

[scrucon]

100. Thank you for the explanation.

Now, again only if you're so inclined, what is happening to the cost savings from the oil that we have secured in Iraq? I maintain that there is a difference between securing and stealing it.

[MattBaggins]

102. Semantics

I have no idea yet and believe it will really take another decade or more before we can see who got the sweet heart deals and who got shafted. It remains to be seen whether the Iraqi people were fairly compensated and how the revenue was spent. I am no investigative journalist so I will have to wait and analyze the information that comes. I will say that with Haliburton and KBR in the mix it doesn't look promising. Even if we are "securing" the oil in Iraq the instability and destruction the people there are enduring is unacceptable and the means do not justify the ends.

I still maintain that the "5$ = not stealing" has no correlation. The rising demand, lowering supply and futures trading on oil reflects the cost. The oil companies have found "the market bearable price" and since the supply is not increasing we are stuck with it. Whether the oil in Iraq were stolen or given freely, would not lower the price. That is my main complaint with that whole argument. It is a Limbaugh statement that falls on its face.

[ladywnch]

101. because the oil industry is posting the largest profits in the history

of business. THAT is why we are paying $4/gal. They now control the source as well as the refining production.

[Lucky 13]

7. Hillary Clinton is 100% correct.

We gave them the GIFT OF FREEDOM!!

They now have the freedom to enjoy raw sewage running through the streets of Bagdad. The freedom to mourn the hundreds of thousands of their own dead in whatever way they wish. The freedom to cry as their civilization crumbles. The freedom to begin a civil war resulting in more hardship and woe for their people.

Most of all they have the freedom to THANK US, and by God, they'd better exercise that right... as soon as the bombing stops.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. And the freedom to catch cholera

and to keep their kids from being educated.

Oh and don't forget the freedom to dodge bombs.

[Politicalboi]

106. and the Freedom of

Depleted Uranium which causes cancer and birth defects.

[1776Forever]

16. You speak the truth - With no plan but being greeted with flowers what did Bush expect?

Sunday, September 14, 2003 GUEST: Dick Cheney, vice president Tim Russert, moderator

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080244/

(March 16, 2003):

VICE PRES. CHENEY: I think things have gotten so bad inside Iraq from the standpoint of the Iraqi people, my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators.

MR. RUSSERT: If your analysis is not correct and we’re not treated as liberators but as conquerors and the Iraqis begin to resist particularly in Baghdad, do you think the American people are prepared for a long, costly and bloody battle with significant American casualties?

VICE PRES. CHENEY: Well, I don’t think it’s unlikely to unfold that way, Tim, because I really do believe we will be greeted as liberators. I’ve talked with a lot of Iraqis in the last several months myself, had them to the White House. The president and I have met with various groups and individuals, people who’ve devoted their lives from the outside to try and change things inside of Iraq. The read we get on the people of Iraq is there’s no question but what they want to get rid of Saddam Hussein and they will welcome as liberators the United States when we come to do that.

.............

And how can HRC say we gave them freedom? It may come to a day when the Iraqi's can have freedom but that day is not here yet and it may be years down the road if they ever finally have it. What is freedom to us may not be definable to them as freedom. We cannot GIVE freedom to a country, they must want it and then in turn form it in their own time and rules.

[rucognizant]

54. I think tThings have gotten so bad inside Iraq from the standpoint of the Iraqi people,

Yes as a result of SANCTIONS against the Iraqi people during the CLINTON administration.
Madelaine Albreight" made that statement about the dead children as a result of the sanctions as worth it because of the end result......RESULT?

[undeterred]

34. the freedom to enjoy raw sewage running through the streets

yeah, thats freedom

[Cha]

47. The Freedom to get themselves Blown

to Kingdom Come. Free Iraq to create more Terrorists in the world ..Free to steal their oil..Free to make political points for bush and make hilary look tough. How's that working out for ya bush, hilary?

[redqueen]

69. The freedom to have their secular society replaced by a theocratic one.

Hurrah!

[indepat]

83. The freedom to be orphaned, the freedom to be made homeless and a refugee, the freedom

to have your national artifacts pillaged and big oil given almost all revenues from your only meaningful resource, your oil reserves. The freedom to have much of your land forever made a wasteland by the use of depleted uranium. Hillary is completely delusional imo or trying to cover her political arse for having supported junior's little pre-emptive war which has brought trillions of dollars of waste and destruction and unthinkable carnage and: it ain't gonna work, Hillary. :grr:

[Leopolds Ghost]

95. As the Founding Fathers said on many occasions (watch John Adams) freedom is meaningless unless

People are free to go about their daily lives and make an
honest living unmolested and not starve to death or die homeless
and penniless or be kicked out of their homes by soldiers
or the government.

[1776Forever]

8. "He leaned forward belligerently and pointed a finger at Saperstein."

Bill and his finger wag has gotten him in trouble before!

[Cha]

51. That's funny the way the 'toonist

has hil and bil situated in a less than stellar kitchen setting.

[madfloridian]

109. Yes, it is.

I am getting disgusted at the lies.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

9. Devastating.

:wow:

[niceypoo]

10. I really do not see your point...

Seems like you are grasping for straws here...

[madfloridian]

11. Ok

:wow:

[Yael]

15. You are having cognitave dissonance over the quotes?

Really -- step back and look at the big picture here. You are missing the forest because you are too close to the trees.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. At least she didn't blame the Iraqis this time

She has said that repeatedly in the last year, that it is time for the Iraqis to stand up and take charge and prove they no longer need the American military to help them.

I was at Take Back America last June when she said this and the crowd booed. I was standing in the back of the room and watched her staffers try to hush the crowd. One of them tapped me on the arm and said I should show the senator some respect. I asked what about the senator's respect for the families of our dead soldiers and the innocent Iraqis victimized by our invasion.

It still just stuns me that Hillary actually believes it is appropriate to illegally invade a country, murder as many as a million of their people and then expect THEM to tell us we can go home now, they can handle things on their own now.

Her stupidity is just astounding. Or maybe it's arrogance.

[EFerrari]

17. But, she did: "we did our bit, now you do yours".

:puke:

[madfloridian]

21. That was the worst part.

I have heard too many Democrats say that too often. Like a talking point.

[EFerrari]

103. There is no denying it. This is their public stance.

It's mendacious and murderous and disgusting.

Maybe if their children lived in Iraq, they would be more thoughtful.

But, they don't. :puke:

[blonndee]

42. I just watched that video on youtube!

I didn't know she had said such a thing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Po_QfT90JW8&feature=related

[madfloridian]

46. Blaming the victims. Democrats should not do that.

:hi:

[Leopolds Ghost]

96. If they no longer need us, why are we still there? I thot Clintons were big on cutting off welfare

Tough love and all that.

[madfloridian]

18. More from Gumbel at Huff Post

"Why, then, is she taking on the president's rhetorical tropes? Could it be she didn't -- and doesn't -- oppose the Iraq war quite as much as she's been letting on?

George Orwell rightly warned us about the way politicians use words like "freedom" when such usage begs more questions than it answers. "Words of this kind are often used in a consciously dishonest way," he wrote in his famous essay Politics and the English Language. "That is, the person who uses them has his own private definition, but allows his hearer to think he means something quite different."

Clinton's audience certainly thought that what she was doing was standing four-square behind the veterans. That was they way they took it, and applauded her accordingly. Perhaps, though, before they make their choices tomorrow, the voters of Texas, Ohio, Rhode Island and Vermont should reread her words and ask themselves what the hell she really meant."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-gumbel/hillary-goes-orwellian-on_b_89729.html

[shadowknows69]

19. We gave them war and death

But they should thank us with every breath? I don't think so. It was an immoral invasion you helped authorize Hillary.

[madfloridian]

20. We invaded their country, and we are now occupiers there.

And no one dares to say it.

[Irishonly]

22. Freedom

What freedom? Freedom to watch their innocent civilians die? Freedom from electricity, clean water and the right to live in peace? Holy shit. Praise our troops but don't say we gave the Iraqis freedom.

[WinkyDink]

57. "Nothing left to lose."

[merh]

23. Whenever the local press here does a story on soldiers leaving

for Iraq they say that they "are joining the fight for our freedoms" when I hear it I just scream at the tube "we are free, this has nothing to do with my freedoms" - I can't help it, it just makes me crazy.

There is so much disconnect from reality in this nation that it is frightening, I often wake up wondering if it is me that lives in an alternate reality.

God have mercy on us all.

[madfloridian]

24. "disconnect from reality" How true that is.

The media keeps saying, people who know better keeps says it is for our freedom. And yes, I have screamed a few times when I hear stuff like that.

[Irishonly]

38. I Yell At The TV Too

I never have understood the stupid logic behind that statement and it's always infuriated me. I can't believe how freakin stupid some in our country have become. We invaded for oil and the ego of a crazy alcoholic.

[scrucon]

75. We invaded for oil?!!!!

Then why are we paying $4/gal. brainiac?

[Irishonly]

76. You have never heard that

permament base, control of oil? BTW, silly sophomoric little insults are stupid. Disagree with me, no problem. Name calling is immature. Welcome to my very small ignore list.

[scrucon]

87. I'm less inclined to believe everything I hear than some people.

Control of oil is not the same thing as theft of oil.

[Politicalboi]

108. Because

They can charge us 10.00 a gallon and nobody is going to do a fucking thing about it. If the prices started to drop to lets say $2 a gallon then their gig would be up. If they gave us cheap oil we would connect the dots to Iraq and it would make it seem like we were at war over oil and stealing it. How do you tell families of fallen soldiers that your son died so we could drive our cars with cheap gas. But in reality they are stealing it and if they let us in on it it would blow their cover. They just think were all stupid and don't see this. So now your son died so me and The Dick can make one hell of a profit. But don't tell anyone.

[Thickasabrick]

25. Women's rights have been set back 100 years in Iraq - what an idiot

she is.

[4themind]

26. "Freedom is on the March"-nt

[Demeter]

27. Some People Consider Death a Form of Freedom

so maybe it's not entirely off the wall.

Freedom from an unlivable life.

Or freedom from an unbearable person.

It can cut somebody loose both ways.

[BuyingThyme]

28. Freed of Dad's hugs. Freed of Mom's kisses.

Freed of an education. Freed of a warm place to sleep. Freed of vision. Freed of a leg. Freed of future.

Thanks Hill'! Well done!

[JayFredMuggs]

29. Is her speechwriter....

George W Bush, Dick Cheney, or Karl Rove?

Or maybe Rush Limbaugh?

[futureliveshere]

30. great post..K&R..n/t

[meow mix]

31. FreedomBombs(tm)

x(

[theredpen]

32. I hope the Iraqis saved the gift reciept

[Dr.Phool]

35. I think they want to return it.

[Johnny__Motown]

36. And she believes she dodged sniper fire And she believes she can still win the nomination

and she believes in a vast right wing conspiracy that is out to get her


Shall I go on???

[Cha]

52. I believe she has joined

the vast right wing conspiracy.

[AZBlue]

37. WTF???

I'd missed this - thank you for the post. Unbelievable!

[bigtree]

39. I don't think we should have invaded the sovereign nation

. . . but, Saddam did oppress many Iraqis. The overthrow did 'free' those Iraqis from the terror of his reign.

Sen. Clinton has been correct in insisting that our troop presence there -- which enabled that liberation of those Iraqis oppressed by the Saddam regime -- is it's own obstacle to perpetuating that opportunity Saddam's removal presented for the majority of Iraq which opposed his rule. She's also correct that it is the Iraqi's responsibility to settle their own affairs without the counterproductive occupying presence of the contingents of American forces deployed there.

[madfloridian]

43. We invaded them, destroyed their infrastrucure....and dare to lecture them??

"She's also correct that it is the Iraqi's responsibility to settle their own affairs without the counterproductive occupying presence of the contingents of American forces deployed there."

That is such an arrogant statement. It really is.

[bigtree]

60. you read your own bias into that. I don't know why. The alternative is staying?

This was Bush's decision to invade, not Clinton's, no matter how much blame has been cast her way. And she is correct that our forces are a counterproductive aggravation, not a viable solution to the ethnic divisions which sprang up in the *wake of Saddam's removal.

I don't see anything she said or I said as lecturing. I certainly don't presume to lecture Iraqis. But to state the obvious, that they have to step in and assume responsibility for the security of their government that our troops have been providing, isn't lecturing. It's a signal to the Maliki regime that their protection force is leaving. All of the other hyperventilated, slanderous crap that's attached to what Clinton expressed doesn't resemble ANY of her stated intentions for Iraq. She intends to remove the aggravating forces, no matter what sentiment or gratitude she expresses toward the performance and sacrifices of the troops BUSH sent to Iraq and has kept there.

[madfloridian]

63. "the gift of freedom"....she puts the burden on them. That is a sin in my mind.

She will NOT take responsibility for this invasion. Yes, of course it was her decision. Stop defending the indefensible.

[bigtree]

92. Of course, it was Bush's decision, alone, to send them and keep them there

stop deflecting blame and responsibility from the lame-duck loser onto our Democratic candidate.

[WinkyDink]

56. "But" has nothing to do with anything. Why haven't we invaded other tyrannies, say, Saudi Arabia?

China?
GMAB.

[Ysabel]

40. imo it's expected when republicans act in such ways...

when it's one of our (supposed) own it's (almost) worse...

[Rosa Luxemburg]

41. OMG - Hillary = George W Bush!

that's it!

[ecstatic]

44. Can at least one Clinton supporter come forward and defend this?

It's not a misspeak, because she's said it at least 3 times.

Please elaborate on this topic and explain why Mrs. Clinton is correct in declaring that by invading Iraq, and killing... millions(!!??), that we have given the "gift of freedom."

I'll be waiting...

[Robeson]

48. Bush couldn't have said it better.

[Yes We Did]

49. Yeah... people want to forget that she was responsible for putting our...

soldiers in this predicament. Unbelievable.

[Danger Mouse]

50. ....shame on you, Senator Clinton. Shame on you.

[The Wizard]

53. There are only two kinds of freedom

Freedom from and freedom to. Which one did the Iraqis get? One isn't gotten without giving up some of the other. Like the Yin and Yang, Newton's Laws of Motion, and Einstein's Special Theory: It's all part of the balance of the Universe. What's next for the Iraqi people? Will we help free them from all that dirty oil of ours that somehow got under their sand?
A little honesty comes in handy now and then. This invasion and occupation of a sovereign country that never hurt us is all about stealing their natural resources. It's the antithesis of American principles. It was up to the Iraqi people to depose Saddam Hussein, not the American military. Sounds like someone has Karl Rove writing speeches. What was that about yellow stripes and dead armadillos? Oh yeah, the middle of the road.

[WinkyDink]

55. Of all the remarks by and positions of all Democratic candidates, I find this one to be THE most

disturbing.

"In the last five years, our soldiers have done everything we asked of them and more. They were asked to remove Saddam Hussein from power and bring him to justice and they did. They were asked to give the Iraqi people the opportunity for free and fair elections and they did. They were asked to give the Iraqi government the space and time for political reconciliation, and they did. So for every American soldier who has made the ultimate sacrifice for this mission, we should imagine carved in stone: 'They gave their life for the greatest gift one can give to a fellow human being, the gift of freedom.'

WHO "asked" them Hillary? Oh, that's right; "WE" did. NOT THE IRAQIS.

Her remarks reflect a person of cruelty. Of heartlessness. Of disingenuousness.
Of, indeed, cognitive dissonance.

On a different scale, and illustrative also perhaps of HRC's "health-care" plan, they reflect a "blame the victim" arrogance and indifference. You were invaded? You're sick? Get over it! Find a boot-strap and lift, buddy!

In point of fact, even if we HAD brought the Iraqis the most perfect form of democracy and even if we had neither killed nor lost ANYONE, it was STILL an ILLEGAL and UNPROVOKED INVASION of a SOVEREIGN NATION.

THAT is a war-crime.

And Hillary knows it.

[DeeDeeNY]

58. That is a scary and eye-opening quote, but at least

she wouldn't have chosen Wright as her pastor!

:sarcasm:

(I have learned my lesson from a previous post and from now on will make sure to always include the sarcasm thingy even when I think it should be obvious)

[madfloridian]

62. Yes, I have learned to use the sarcasm tag....

I had to explain so much when I left it out. Some just don't get it.

[proReality]

59. What the hell is her definition of freedom?!?

I want more than the word, I want an explanation from her...and from every politician.

[madfloridian]

61. Kick for the gift of freedom words....from the candidate who supports McCain

more than her own party.

[Ztarbod]

64. Nothing new from the Clinton's

[Scurrilous]

65. K & R

:thumbsup:

[crankychatter]

66. now she wants to give it to iran as well

watching people defend this is tiresome

[Erin Elizabeth]

67. That really worries me.

She's sounding like someone else I know who thought Iraq was a good idea and still does.

[Usrename]

68. Last summer she threatened to cut off aid.

While there were 8 million Iraqis destitute and fighting for food and water, she threatened to cut off US aid to these people.

I couldn't believe my ears when she said this, and no one ever disagreed with her on this, either. I still cannot belive it.

From the transcript of the http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/07/sweet_dem_debate_full_transcri.html">AFL-CIO candidates forum:

MR. OLBERMANN: Thank you, Senator Biden.

Senator Clinton, what do we do in that hypothetical?

SEN. CLINTON: Well, I have a three-point plan to get out of Iraq, starting with redeploying our troops, but doing it responsibly and carefully, because as many of the veterans in this audience know, taking troops out can be just as dangerous as bringing them in. And we’ve got to get out of Iraq smarter than we got in.

Secondly, we’ve got to put more pressure on the Iraqi government, including withholding aid from them if they don’t begin to stabilize the country themselves. And thirdly, we need an intensive diplomatic effort, regionally and internationally.

But if it is a possibility that al Qaeda would stay in Iraq, I think we need to stay focused on trying to keep them on the run, as we currently are doing in Al Anbar province.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1540478#1541111
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1573318#1574401

[madfloridian]

70. I missed that...that was terrible. Heartless thing to say.

"Secondly, we’ve got to put more pressure on the Iraqi government, including withholding aid from them if they don’t begin to stabilize the country themselves. And thirdly, we need an intensive diplomatic effort, regionally and internationally"

[Usrename]

79. I know! Everybody missed it when she said it.

I flew into an immediate rage, and got into an argument with my brother about it, who was right there in the same room watching the same TV. He was convinced that I was imagining things, and that she never made any such threat. But there it is, right in the transcript.

I am so sick and fed up with the whole "blame the victim" mentality that I guess I must be over sensitive or something.

Most DUers read what she said and they don't take it the same way. They argue that this is different somehow from what she threatened to do. Like she misspoke, or doesn't really mean it or something.

Got in an argument about it in this here other thread, too: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3606146

[Vinca]

74. I bet at this point the Iraqis would be happy with the gift of electricity

24 hours a day, potable water and streets free of sewage.

[hfojvt]

77. we have to stop eating our own

Thus, when one of our elected Representatives sells out progressive principles, or the party itself, ala Lieberman, we are just supposed to smile and take it. We shouldn't get upset when one of "our own" stabs us in the back. It's okay when one of our own does it. And we are "misrepresenting and bashing" when we claim that a vote for the IWR, and speeches and interviews that said "it's up to Saddam" and "Saddam is not co-operating with inspectors" and then "we have to support the troops now that the war has been started" - if we get angry about enabling the war instead of opposing it, then we are just misrepresenting and bashing. I guess we should be more like Republicans and just close ranks and refuse to admit that "one of our own" ever does anything wrong. Hear no evil, see no evil, and speak no evil.

[Umbram]

78. I'm sure she and her supporters are looking forward to spreading this gift (nt)

[IamyourTVandIownyou]

82. They're not free, they're under Foreign Occupation,

Many many of their children are "free" of their dead parents however, but that is about all.

Rot in hell for your IWR vote lady.

[Leopolds Ghost]

98. I thought they hate us for our freedoms. n/t

[madfloridian]

104. Maybe they just hate our "gifts of freedom."

I can not believe we did that invasion. I can not believe our own Democrats call it a gift of freedom.

It just boggles my mind.

[Politicalboi]

105. I want to give Hillary

The gift of freedom from her miserable campaign. So what does she lose in this race? The last chance to become President. What did the family members of those 4,000 dead soldiers lose? Or the Million Iraq's lose. Her loss would be a cake walk by comparrison. Gift of Freedom my ass.

[Duder]

107. Wiggle room

'President Bush told Bill Sammon - Washington Examiner correspondent and author of a new book titled "The Evangelical President" - that Clinton will beat Obama for the Democratic presidential nomination because she is a "formidable candidate" and better known.

Sammon says Bush revealed that he has been sending messages to Clinton to urge her to "maintain some political wiggle room in your campaign rhetoric about Iraq."

The author said Bush contends that whoever inherits the White House will be faced with a potential vacuum in Iraq and "will begin to understand the need to continue to support the young democracy."

Bush ought to know about campaign rhetoric. Remember how he ridiculed "nation building" in the 2000 presidential campaign? Now he claims he is trying to spread democracy throughout the Middle East.' --Helen Thomas 10/4/07