Obama Caught LYING (again) About Kennedy's Role in Helping the Father who Abandoned him.

[Mezzo]

Addressing civil rights activists in Selma, Ala., a year ago, Sen. Barack Obama traced his "very existence" to the generosity of the Kennedy family, which he said paid for his Kenyan father to travel to America on a student scholarship and thus meet his Kansan mother.

(...)

Obama spokesman Bill Burton acknowledged yesterday that the senator from Illinois had erred in crediting the Kennedy family with a role in his father's arrival in the United States. He said the Kennedy involvement in the Kenya student program apparently "started 48 years ago, not 49 years ago as Obama has mistakenly suggested in the past."

Here's the link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/29/AR2008032902031.html?nav=hcmodule

[Mezzo]

1. ooooh *I* know. Let's just say it was under SNIPER FIRE, because that's how soon I'll let this lie

nt

[Evergreen Emerald]

2. But--when Obama lies an angel gets its wings

When Clinton lies hell gets hotter. The double standard on DU cracks me up. People defend Obama's lies (and this of course is not the first), the media ignores them while spending two weeks attacking Clinton for her exaggerations.

The world is still through the looking glass.

[Mezzo]

26. Yep. Hi lies are scared while hers are blasphemy. These people ARE cult like, no getting around it

I hope I get on ever ignore list there is.

CALL THEIR BLUFF.

[Mooney]

79. So you're saying Hillary Clinton lies?

"Hi lies are scared while hers are blasphemy."

Thank you for finally admitting she lies.

[Mezzo]

123. and thank you for acknowledging he does.

There are others.

[Mooney]

133. I'm just repeating what you said.

I didn't say anything about Obama at all. I just quoted you.

[Mezzo]

160. perhaps then you should quote it all. Don't wanna be taken out of context.

when he lies, it's sacred to you. When he plagiarizes, it isn't really plagiarism, when he hangs out with a bigot for twenty years, it's just not really a big deal.

whatevs.

[PoliticalAmazon]

183. A second-person family story inaccuracy is not uncommon. Lying about sniper fire is. n/t

[karynnj]

59. To claim it is a lie,

You need to prove that Obama knew it was untrue. I assume that HRC knew the Bosnia story was untrue, because assuming she didn't - is worse for Clinton.

Here his dad did come to the US on that program that apparently started under Eisenhower, but I think was greatly expanded under JFK. This was also nit picking. It does not add a false claim to Obama's resume as it is no reflexion on him that he thought it was a JFK program - in fact the Kenyan Nobel Prize winner spoke of it as a JFK program that let her study in the US - when she spoke at Holy Cross. http://www.holycross.edu/publicaffairs/features/2006-2007/maathai_audio To many the program is associated with JFK.

[Hieronymus]

116. Yes, nitpicking is what it is. Interesting how quick the poster is to compare

such a thing to Hillary's lying about being under sniper fire. A lie she repeated at least four times.

[Evergreen Emerald]

178. That is the point: it is nitpicking on every side both Obama's and Clinton's

It is a joke that the people on DU do not acknowledge it.

[uberblonde]

84. Oo, I LOVE that!!!

"Teacher says every time Obama lies, an angel gets its wings!"

[atal]

188. A definate white lie

He didn't mean it.

[carlotta]

3. C'mon Obama supporters

...those of you who made such a to-do over Hillary's sniper fire "lie". Admit, if you are able, that this is just as bad.

[Bonobo]

5. Read below. Hillary lied to make herself look better. Obama praised others.

[Bake]

165. Not to praise others, but to make the "Kennedy Connection."

"I knew JFK, Senator, and you're no JFK."

Bake

[SoFlaJet]

10. just as bad?

give me a fucking break will you please? The marching orders have been handed by the CC this morning my fellow democrats-we heard it already on Morning Joe-they are very worried about these 7 new SD's and the story out there in the MSM about them being broke. Panic is setting in it seems in the Clinton camp.

[karynnj]

60. No it isn't as bad - don't be ridiculuous

Hillary told a story of dodging sniper fire when she didn't. The kindest interpretation is that she lied. She was a mature, competent First Lady at the time - and this was designed to make her seem to have more military/foregn policy experience. (Mission accomplished?)

Obama was speaking of an event before he was born. He very likely connected his dad coming to the US on a US program with stuff learned in school about all the JFK programs. This ads (or subtracts) nothing from his life story - it doesn't matter whether it was an Eisenhower program (and his granddaughter, Susan, endorsed him) or JFK.

[Evergreen Emerald]

179. hahahaha....you are cracking me up

tying yourself up like a pretzel in an effort to find a difference.

[Mooney]

86. I love how all attempts to smear Obama amount to "He's as bad as Hillary."

She must really be a terrible candidate if all some of her supporters can do is drive up Obama's negatives to her level.

[Mooney]

87. Is your argument that Obama is a bad candidate because he's as dishonest as Hillary Clinton?

And by putting the word "lie" in quotes, you're implying it wasn't a lie. Please debunk this odious rumor for us. You know, the one that's been corroborated by video and by all the people who were there.

[GOTV]

98. It's ridiculous to claim they are the same. What happened to your sense of proportion?

[Bonobo]

4. Well there's lying to adggrandize yourself like Hillary and then there is boosting others...

One lies to boost herself up, another lies to boost another up.

Which one is worse?

[rox63]

6. So he was off by a year

And it's about an event that happened before he was born. Hillary lied about an event that she was there for, and which was nothing like her description.

[Mezzo]

11. a pretty important year...since what he said DIDN'T FUCKING HAPPEN AT ALL.

under sniper fire. Mmmmmm Hmmm.

[MethuenProgressive]

18. He was off by connecting Himself to JFK - or not. Lying about John F Kennedy and getting a DU pass?

The D stands for Democratic, jfyi.

[DerekJ]

20. Where is the fucking lie?!! I don't see it in the OP.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[karynnj]

64. You can be wrong and not be lying

You need to know what Obama knew when he said it.

[MethuenProgressive]

102. Not if you're HRC.

Ask any DUbama.

[DerekJ]

7. Where is the lie?!!

[Mezzo]

14. read for comprehension, and then check with Bill Burton. nt

[DerekJ]

19. Again

If I said JFK was born on 1918, and it turned out he was born in 1917. I made a mistake!! I didn't lie, unless I am deliberately trying to mislead or deceive.
Presents the case where Obama is deliberately making this mistake, that is, he knew that was not true, and he still made that statement, otherwide it’s a mistake not a lie.

[marshall]

115. Is this similar to Hillary saying she was named after Edmund Hillary?

Hillary's parents were obviously bull shitting her when they made up the family story. Maybe Obama's family did the same. At any rate the father wasn't even on hand to lend his two cents to the story, so it's far more likely that Obama's mom or grandmom got mixed up.

[Mezzo]

138. or Barack Obama saying his names aren't Arabic. nt

[marshall]

140. Most Christians know very little about Arabic names

Obama probably knows slightly more than the average Christian since his stepfather was Muslim.

[DerekJ]

161. It isn't, you Moron, It’s Swahili, It’s borrowed from the Arabic word Baraka (which means blessing)

[Orsino]

162. The haters resent any attempt to connect Obama with heroes of yore.

So effective is the imagery that even an honest mistake, as this smells like, must be attacked.

Perhaps there was sniper fire at that Tuzla airfield a year after Hillary Clinton passed through; that tale sounds a little more like a lie, as inexplicable as it is.

[Bake]

167. Then it was an awfully convenient mistake.

Because Obama has used it to make the Kennedy Connection. If it's something one trumpets like that, without first checking to make sure it's true, the law calls it "reckless disregard for the truth." Which is what this item looks like to me.

If it were reversed, and it were Hillary who said it, you'd be all over her in (self)-righteous wrath!

Bake

[DerekJ]

171. Unless you have the proof, he knew better before he uttered those words, you can take your

Delusional conjecture and shove them up your "ears"

[Hippo_Tron]

175. From what I understand...

The Kennedy family helped several Kenyan students come to the United States and Obama mentioned this to make a point. He claimed his father was one of them when in fact he came the year before the Kennedy family started doing this.

Put another way, I care about this about as much as I care about sniper-gate. And by that I mean, I don't fucking care.

[mod mom]

8. He most likely heard this family account from his parents who heard the Kennedy family funded an air

"September 1959 airlift of 81 Kenyan students to the United States that included Obama's father. According to historical records and interviews with participants, the Kennedys were first approached for support for the program nearly a year later, in July 1960. The family responded with a $100,000 donation, most of which went to pay for a second airlift in September 1960."

Most families wouldn't delve into researching details but would pass what they believed to be the case.

THIS IS NOTHING LIKE HILLARY BLATANT LIE ABOUT HER SNIPER FIRE IN BOSNIA!

[flor de jasmim]

13. Thanks - I was going to dig this up but now don't need to.

[Cassandra]

22. Thank you.

Those who think family word-of-mouth can't get details wrong should watch Antiques Roadshow some time.

[uponit7771]

41. Right, I don't see how this issue boost any presidential aspects of Obama

[Mz Pip]

114. Since he wasn't born yet

he could only go by what family members told him. I wouldn't doubt that some of the stories my parents told me about their courtship in WWII are colored by their own memories of the times. If I repeat something they told me and it turns out to not be accurate it's hardly a LIE. :eyes:

Hillary, on the other hand was present during the "sniper fire" incident. It involved her personally, it was not an accounting by family members of a time before she was born.

Jeez, the critical thinking skills of some folks around here is mind boggling.

[scheming daemons]

9. A) One candidate told a story to boost herself, about an event SHE was present for.... B)....

...another candidate told a story to boost SOMEONE else, about an event that happened before his birth - of which he could have NO first hand knowledge of.


If you can't see the moral difference between the two, you are a sad individual.

[DerekJ]

17. That's not even the case!!!

He obviously made a mistake!! That's not a lie.
If I said JFK was born on 1918, and it turned out he was born in 1917. I made a mistake!! I didn't lie, unless I am deliberately trying to mislead or deceive.
So unless the OP presents the case where Obama is deliberately making this mistake, that is, he knew that was not true, and he still made that statement, it’s a mistake.

[dkf]

12. This is probably what he was told.

And I find it even more poignant that Jackie Robinson and others helped fund Obama's dad.

How wonderful is that!

[MethuenProgressive]

15. Does Ted Kennedy know BO lied about his assassinated brother to gain votes?

And perhaps more disturbing: Did Ted Kennedy know BO was lying about a phony connection to JFK to gain votes, and endorsed him anyway?

edit spelling

[DerekJ]

24. WTF are you talking about?!!!

[MethuenProgressive]

32. I always suggest that new members read the OP in a thread before posting a response.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[DerekJ]

35. I suggest that you fetch a dictionary and look up the word lie.

[redqueen]

107. You are wasting your time.

True Believers will not listen.

[Bake]

168. You're exactly right.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid "true believers" in this instance refers to the Obama crowd.

Bake

[Mezzo]

25. that's up to Ted kennedy. But BHO says this ON FUCKING VIDEO, so there's not denying it.

CALL THEIR BLUFF!!!!

[stahbrett]

LOL - I am archiving this thread as a classic example of grasping at straws

You guys are a hoot!

To think that a mistake like this, which is likely an simple mistake of Obama's mom or dad (or grandparents) that was told to him when he was growing up, is in any way close to being equivalent to Hillary's blatant lie about running with her head down due to sniper fire in Bosnia, is just nuts! This is roughly equivalent to Hillary's assertion that she was named after Edmund Hillary.

[MethuenProgressive]

33. BO lies about family connection to JFK. DU gives him another 'get out of lie free' card

You guys are a hoot!

[mkultra]

63. You guys are just as detached from reality as she is.

[MethuenProgressive]

69. Is there any one of BO's many lies you don't give him a pass on?

If He says it, it can't be a lie, in your mind?

[mkultra]

72. well, the really bad ones like the sniper fire one.

Oh wait, that was your baitshit crazy candidate.

[stahbrett]

142. For the benefit of others, since I think you're a troll most of the time

There are lies that are told ("I did not have sex with that woman"), and then there are things that are honestly thought to be true but turns out are not ("I ate pizza last Tuesday with Joe", when it was actually last Wednesday).

Let's look at Hillary's now-infamous "Snipergate": Did she have that harrowing experience in Bosnia in 1996 with sniper fire, and with the need to run with her head down to waiting vehicles? No, all evidence points to the contrary. BUT... let's pretend that in 1997 she DID have a very similar-sounding experience in another war zone - and she simply got the two events confused? Then that's not a big deal, is it? If she confused a 1996 Bosnia trip with a 1997 Somalia trip, but the recalled details (sniper fire, running for the vehicles at the airport, etc.) are pretty close, then it's not going to be a huge story. BUT - the Hillary campaign has not alleged this sort of confusion... there does not appear to be any event in Hillary's life where she landed in a war zone under sniper fire, with the need to run with her head down to vehicles to be whisked away to safety. It just never happened. So that means it's a whopper of a lie - she's either imagining herself doing things in the past that never happened to the point of it becoming part of her reality in her own mind, or she just lied on purpose, stupidly thinking no one would check her story. Either scenario makes her unfit to be President.

Obama, on the other hand, telling a short anecdote about how his father got to the U.S., was mistakenly under the impression that the generosity of the Kennedy clan had sponsored the program that allowed his father to arrive in the U.S., while it now has been shown that the Kennedy funding started the year after Obama's father arrived. So the Kennedy clan DID provide funding the program that Obama's father used to get here, but it was a year after he arrived. That's a mistake, of a very minor kind, unless you can somehow show that Obama was purposely saying this while knowing it was false.

[JTFrog]

73. IOKIYAHRC

HRC was six when Sir Edmund Hillary climbed Mt. Everest.

From Snopes:

We opined back in 2003 that Hillary Clinton's claim about being Edmund Hillary's namesake might not have been completely false since she didn't say she was actually named for the mountain climber, but rather that her mother told her she was named for him, a
minor but important distinction given how often parents make up harmless little fibs to amuse their children or misremember past events.

Indeed, in October 2006 this was the excuse a spokesperson for her campaign provided in officially discounting the story:

====

For more than a decade, one piece of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton's informal biography has been that she was named for Sir Edmund Hillary, the conqueror of Mount Everest. The story was even recounted in Bill Clinton's autobiography.

But yesterday, Mrs. Clinton's campaign said she was not named for Sir Edmund after all.

"It was a sweet family story her mother shared to inspire greatness in her daughter, to great results I might add," said Jennifer Hanley, a spokeswoman for the campaign.

====

http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/hillary.asp

[proud2BlibKansan]

112. But what if it turns out that Hillary's family told her that sniper story

when she was a little girl? And she decided to relive it for Chelsea?

[Igel]

157. I've seen people remember the strangest things.

Yet I was intelligent enough to realize that they were actually remembering things incorrectly.

Once I was accused of planning on to sabotaging my employer. One witness wasn't even there when I pointed out that the place didn't ever back up its computerized records and had no provisions for doing so, which I considered foolish (which later became, "He threatened to delete everything on the hard drive, which would be bad because we don't have a backup"). The guy had been invited over to his sisters' place for a pot-luck dinner and to play cards, but said he had an anniversary party to go to. His wife organized the party for *her* sister. When I pointed out to him that to be a witness meant he had to be at his sisters' apt. on a certain date, he said he'd been there. After all, he remembered me making my "threat", he remembered where I was sitting and who else was in the room, he remembered what others said in response to my threat and what we were doing at the time. His wife, standing next to him, said he was at the anniversary party, there was no mistaking the date or the time. They got into a shouting match.

The wife later said they'd fought about this a few times over the next week. When his sister-in-law showed him photos proving he was at the party, he said they were both wrong and tried to get her husband to back him up. He trusted his memory first; eye witnesses are notoriously fallible. But that doesn't mean they--or this particular jerk--was lying. Just wrong.

My wife's done the same kind of thing. So have I. Well, with a bit more humility, I'd hope.

[mkultra]

62. does that little girl in bosnia know that hillary used her as a shield?

[northzax]

16. Barack Obama doesn't lie

don't you know that?

[Seabiscuit]

51. Nope, not at all. He's just "mistaken" about a lot of things.

[northzax]

58. nah, it's probably the Kennedys

they must have their memory wrong.

[hobbit709]

21. About 90% of GD-P

appears to be either Obama or Hillary supporters making mountains out of any molehill statement from either candidate. Get real folks.
Election season is ALWAYS full of hyperbole-it's the nature of the game. I'm more concerned about the REAL issues-the occupation, the economy, the environment, the corporate ripoff of America, the loss of civil liberties-than I am about a bunch of he said/she said something that is generally stupid but gets twisted into a "the-world-will-stop-turning-at-midnight" todo.
I didn't support either of them in the primary here and I'm not supporting them now. I will support and vote for whoever gets the nomination.
I've always distrusted fanatics of any stripe and the general tone around here by many supporters of either one is to have enough cows to put on one hell of a barbecue at any statement made by the candidate they oppose.

[Evergreen Emerald]

23. I agree with you..however the Clinton molehill

was aired in the news for two weeks straight...and that is what caused the drop in polls. Everytime she fights her way back up the media attacks her again--using molehills.

I am tired of the double standard

[DerekJ]

29. Where is the double standard? A lie consists of 2 parts:

1- A False statement
2- The person making the false statement has the intention of deceiving.

Otherwise, it becomes a mistake. I can't believe I have to explain this to grown up people. Where is he deliberately deceiving? I don't see it in the OP. Am I missing something?

[RaleighNCDUer]

56. Maybe if your candidate would stop telling easily verified lies

she wouldn't keep dropping in the polls.

Take it up with her, not the media.

[Cheap_Trick]

145. kind of like the Rev. Wright story...

molehill conflated by Hillbots and the media. waaa double standards......

[dogday]

31. Bingo, well said and exactly how I feel...

:thumbsup:

[ima_sinnic]

27. so? he was MISTAKEN about a PROGRAM that happened BEFORE HE WAS BORN

That is not a "lie," it is simply a mistaken notion. It would be like me saying WWII ended in 1946 (the year I was born) instead of 1945--am I lying, or simply mistaken? Since I wasn't even born when WWII ended, I have no "I remember exactly where I was when it ended" to go on. Future President Obama is mistakenly crediting the Kennedys for something of which he does NOT HAVE FIRSTHAND KNOWLEDGE--so FUCKING WHAT? oooh, he tried to make the Kennedys look better than they already are!!! HOLY FUCKING JESUS!! WHOOP DE DING DONG! STOP THE BUS!

Hillbots are desperate to turn molehills into mountains of shit, simply because there is ABSOLUTELY NO CASE TO BE MADE FOR HER POLICY POSITIONS, HISTORY OF VOTING, LOYALTY TO THE PEOPLE, LACK OF ASSOCIATION WITH CORPORATE RACKETEERS, OR ANY OTHER QUALIFICATIONS that will convince people to vote for her.

keep bringing it on and showing how desperate and downright dumb the accusations are.

[MethuenProgressive]

106. He LIED to connect HIMSELF with the KENNDYS to gain VOTES

But we know you don't care, becuase "words don't matter," Wright?

[Name removed]

119. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MethuenProgressive]

120. See post #49.

:rofl:

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[surfermaw]

28. That not the first he was caught in, didn't he say his mother got preg. with him during a march in A

Alabama or some place in the south.

[DerekJ]

30. Still proud of your great civil rights vote I see.

[MethuenProgressive]

37. Another lie of BO's to connect Himself with History. Is anything about BO's Fairy Tale true?

Snap out of it, DUbamas!

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mkultra]

65. yoru as bad as every bush supporter in the heat of election season

[navarth]

34. so let's call it even and stop the bleeding for crissakes

how about this: they both misspoke. can we get to McCain now?

[DerekJ]

38. No sorry, that wasn't a lie. Unless someone proves it was intentional it wasn't a lie.

[Mezzo]

118. BULLSHIT. A lie is a lie is a lie. nt

[DerekJ]

163. Lie is a Lie, No shit, did you just figure that out ... The problem is , It isn't

No matter how you slice it isn't.
A lie has to be intentional


lie2 (lī)
n.
A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.


mis·take (mĭ-stāk')
n.
An error or fault resulting from defective judgment, deficient knowledge, or carelessness.
A misconception or misunderstanding.

Goodness...

[jonestonesusa]

36. He was off by one year, and it's a lie?

We're all lawyers here, aren't we?

[MethuenProgressive]

39. Obama traced his "very existence" to the Kennedys - but his lie was a year o

He lies, and ObamaNation cheers!

[jonestonesusa]

47. These are not cheers, these are clarifications

and exchanges of opinion. If you must insist on making this a partisan issue like the OP does, consider these as conditionals:

Obama says when he traveled to Kenya on an official trip he came under sniper fire.

Clinton says that she was named after Sir Edmund Hillary.

Which would be more significant?

[MethuenProgressive]

52. Obama: "Kennedys!!" Facts: "That's a LIE!!"

That clear enough for you?

[DerekJ]

50. Just repeating "He lied" 10000 times won't make it true, good luck with that.

[MethuenProgressive]

53. Facts are facts. Sticking your fingers in your ears and stamping your feet doesn't change facts.

Fact: Obama lied. Again.

[mkultra]

66. i think i can actually hear the sound of your kicking your feat

while you cry.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DerekJ]

78. The only one who is sticking his fingers up his “ears” is you..

I asked you several times to show me where he intentionally deceived, for it to qualify as a lie, and you kept dodging me.

ANSWER ME NOW.

[DerekJ]

82. waiting....

[GOTV]

108. Conjecture != Fact. Look up the words if you don't believe me.

[uponit7771]

54. hmmm, going on about a years difference that gives no credential leg up seems to be picking fly crap

...from pepper IMHO.

[Bake]

169. Actually, I **am** a lawyer.

And there is such a thing as "reckless disregard for the truth." It's equivalent to intent. It applies where the misrepresentation is made and the speaker either knew or SHOULD HAVE KNOWN it was false. (Whether he was off by a year or a decade is only a matter of degree, by the way; it was still a false statement.)

If Obama is going to spout the story in order to make the Kennedy Connection and gain votes, he SHOULD HAVE KNOWN (i.e., should have verified) whether or not it was true.

Bake, Esq.

[DerekJ]

173. You should be disbarred if you are one.

Reckless disregard for the truth is used in defamation suits. How does it pretian by any means to this story.

Plus

1- "disregard of the truth or falsity of a defamatory statement by a person who is highly aware of its probable falsity or entertains .


2- "a reckless lack of attention to the truth that misleads or deceives another (as a magistrate)"

The Meaning of Fault:

In a lawsuit against a mass medium, a private person must prove that the defendant was at least negligent in publishing the defamatory matter. Negligence has been defined as the failure to exercise reasonable care or as acting in such a way as to create a substantial risk of harm. In some states, in certain cases private persons will be required to prove more than simple negligence. They may be required to prove gross negligence, which is a standard that implies a greater degree of carelessness on the part of the defendant. An individual who has been declared to be a public person for the purposes of a libel suit must prove actual malice. Actual malice is defined as knowledge of falsity or reckless disregard of the truth. Transmitting a story with the knowledge of its falsity means that the publishers of the story knew it was not true but still communicated it to the public. To prove reckless disregard for the truth, the plaintiff must show that the publisher of the defamation had a "high degree of awareness of the probable falsity of the material" when it was published or that the publisher in fact "entertained serious doubts about the truth of the material" before it was published. The courts have established a set of three criteria to help determine whether material was published with reckless disregard for the truth. The jurists tend to look at these factors:

Whether there was time to investigate the story or whether the material had to be published quickly
Whether the source of the information appeared to be reliable and trustworthy
Whether the story itself sounded probable or farfetched
If the item was hot news, if the source was a trained journalist, and if the information in the story sounded probable, there can be no finding of reckless disregard. However, if there was plenty of time to investigate, if the source of the material was questionable, or if the information in the story sounded completely improbable, courts are more likely to permit a finding of reckless disregard for the truth.

------------------------------------
You must be in first year law school.

[Bake]

174. Ramp down the rhetoric, dipwad. It's an analogy.

Not a lawsuit.

People like you are one reason many of us loathe your candidate.

Bake

[rhett o rick]

42. You are helping McCain win in November. Are you a real Democrat? nm

[mkultra]

43. lol, 48 instead of 49

what a shocking revelation. This is clearly a lie instead of misspeaking.

[MethuenProgressive]

44. I owe my existance to the Kennedys - instead of Not.

He lies and lies and lies and his sheep follow blindly.

[mkultra]

71. but but but but Obama!1?1!1?

Your as done as she is. put down the koolaid and back away.

[karynnj]

45. This is worse than accusing Obama on his kindergarten stuff

That program is associated in the minds of many with the Kennedy administration. In fact, the Kenyan environmentalist who won the Nobel Prize spoke of it that way, when she spoke at a MA Jesuit College (http://www.holycross.edu/publicaffairs/features/2006-2007/maathai_audio). I haven't looked into the year when she studied here - maybe she lied too - in a conspiracy of Kenyans educated in the US to give extra credit to JFK.

The fact is that Obama was not even born at the time his dad came to study in the US. Very likely he heard stories as a kid of how his dad came and they were linked with what everyone learned of the various JFK outreaches to the undeveloped countries, such as the Peace Corps, this program and - for South America - the Alliance for Progress. I'm sure that both Senator Kennedy and Caroline Kennedy did not have any reason to question Obama's comment - JFK was very associated with that plan and they were highly unlikely to stand there and figure out the year that Obama's father came. Seriously every family has stories that when scrutinized to this level are not possible - but they might be what you heard as fact your whole life.

Not to mention, JFK was a Senator and the program was likely voted on. Thomas (the online Senate record doesn't go back that far :) ), but I bet there was a vote on it - and I bet JFK voted for it. (Not to mention Eisenhower's granddaughter endorsed Obama, so he can claim that link with her now :) )

This is not a grown woman giving an elaborate story of how she had to duck to avoid sniper fire.

[ProSense]

55. Hillary's repeated lies have given rise to attempts to portray Obama as a liar too or

projecting Hillary's flaws on Obama syndrome.

[Mezzo]

139. suuuuuuuuure it does. nt

[uponit7771]

74. I agree,...this looks a little desperate

[MethuenProgressive]

77. I forgot about that lie of his! Thanks, he lies so much and so often its hard to remember then all!

That was about his claim that he had never thought about running for POTUS, and it turned out he'd mentioned it dozens of times, from the year before to all the back to grade school.
His lie: I Never! The Truth: All your freakin' life you did!

thanks, karyn!

[RaleighNCDUer]

46. So he gave props to Kennedy for supporting a program which,

already in existance, had helped his father come to America.

Did he lie about Kennedy supporting the program? Did he lie about his father coming to America? Did he lie about being thankful for the program? Did he lie about the progressive and generous nature of the program which Kennedy gave his support to?

There's no lie here - just a very small mixup on chronology. Even had Kennedy donated to the program before Obama's father benefited by it, it would be stretching it to say that "Kennedy helped Obama's father", because Kennedy never met the man, who was just another anonymous African student.

The whole story has little to do with either Kennedy or the elder Obama - it is a narrative about the generous nature of progressive America.

Only republicans want THAT to be the lie.

[DainBramaged]

48. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

boring. You really think you can come here and change our minds??


In the dictionary next to absurd is your picture. Maybe you should be trying to stop the Reich wing from ruining this country before Booshe leaves instead of tearing down the Democratic candidate.

[Mezzo]

121. >>>YAAAAAAAAAAAAAWN

you really think Bosnia was going to change our minds?

Barack Obama has a problem with telling the truth.

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MethuenProgressive]

130. See post #49

[MethuenProgressive]

49. Anyone surprised that all the BO followers in thread can do is attack other DU members?

The OP revealing BO's blant lie scares them shitless.

[ima_sinnic]

61. if that "lie" (which you know it isn't) bothers you so much, why doesn't HRC's "sniper fire"?

I nominate the thread for the Dumbass Award.

[mkultra]

68. how dare they

how dare they attack you for your "fair and balanced" reporting.

[uponit7771]

70. What scares me is the constant picking of fly crap from pepper GOPers and HRC supporters are doing..

..in regards to Obama, even the pastor issue was a little picky to me because the guy never said anything that I thought was racist.

Either way, this is small and doesn't boost BO's presidential credentials at all...I don't see the benefit for him as the Bosnia story was for HIllary

[MethuenProgressive]

88. No one surprised at all? Figures. It's Tradition with DUbamas.

That, and horrible spelling.
Good ol' "The Phone Is Upside Down" Obama!

[Willo]

95. Sorry, try again.

[Mezzo]

122. Is he on the phone LYING right there?

he has a problem telling the truth.

[DainBramaged]

90. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

more boring palp.

[Mezzo]

141. absolutely. They can dish it, but they can't take it.

Remember when they were saying plagiarism isn't REALLY plagiarism EVEN AFTER BO apologized for plagiarism? Hi-fucking-larious.

[jonestonesusa]

144. Not all BO followers attack other members on this thread.

To say so, in fact, is a lie. I did not attack you in my previous post - I disagreed with your reasoning.

Even the term "BO followers" is prejudicial. I voted for BO in the primary and I support him for president. But I am also a political independent - I am not a follower. Besides, this election isn't about our individual egos - it's about our nation and the larger world and the hope that our national government plays a constructive and progressive role in those communities.

I will continue to communicate respectfully with other posters on DU. I challenge you to follow that standard as well so that the dialogue makes us more informed.

[MethuenProgressive]

154. Welcome to DU. The name is Alan Cranston, with an "s".

"To say so, in fact, is a lie." is a violation of DU rules, and could earn an "alert" from some members. As a new member, I suggest a careful read of the rules. You read as well reasoned and level headed, and will be a fine advocate for your candidate, I'm sure. Again, welcome.

[jonestonesusa]

164. Point well taken. Thanks for the welcome.

Long live Alan Cranston.

[helderheid]

75. Was it deliberate or was he mistaken?

[MethuenProgressive]

81. He deliberately connected Himself to the Kennedys to embelish His Fairy Tale.

His mistake was getting caught.

[helderheid]

91. Really?

I don't know. I've made such mistakes with dates. Hell, I had birth announcements printed for my daughter that were off by a year (and didn't catch it until someone pointed it out - she was born in 2002, not 2003! You'd think the printing company would have caught that too!) I even gave Sen. Clinton the benefit of the doubt on the sniper fire thing, thinking perhaps she may have remembered some other trip to Bosnia where there WAS sniper fire... but no, there was no other trip of that sort, and therefore can only conclude she was intentionally lying (which still boggles my mind).

[MethuenProgressive]

96. It's not the "date" - it's adding Kennedy to your Fairy Tale when there was no Kennedy.

BO, who claims he writes his own speeches (cough), decided to add an anecdote that connected Himself to the Kennedys, with the intent of enlarging Himself in the listener's opinion.
Maybe Kennedy actually helped Deval Patrick's family? You should look into it.

[helderheid]

97. Well, actually the date is very important. According to the OP, Kennedy would have been involved had

the year been correct. :shrug:

[MethuenProgressive]

109. What is important is BO lied to connect Himself with Kennedy in His stump speech.

The date is what helped catch him in this latest lie.

[helderheid]

124. if it were intentional, I'd agree, but I don't see any evidence of that. Now the sniper fire story

on the other hand...

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Willo]

80. So....he lied that Kennedy didn't help (???)

And Obama said this to boost his claim of what? You see, this is what you call an "honest mistake."


Sorry Kennedy, thx for the 2nd trip though *shrug*

Contrary to Obama's claims in speeches in January at American University and in Selma last year, the Kennedy family did not provide the funding for a September 1959 airlift of 81 Kenyan students to the United States that included Obama's father. According to historical records and interviews with participants, the Kennedys were first approached for support for the program nearly a year later, in July 1960. The family responded with a $100,000 donation, most of which went to pay for a second airlift in September 1960.

Obama spokesman Bill Burton acknowledged yesterday that the senator from Illinois had erred in crediting the Kennedy family with a role in his father's arrival in the United States. He said the Kennedy involvement in the Kenya student program apparently "started 48 years ago, not 49 years ago as Obama has mistakenly suggested in the past."

[MethuenProgressive]

83. He lied to put his name in the same speech line as the Kennedys.

Words matter, Wright?

[DerekJ]

92. Again where did he intentionally deceive?!!

Prove to me that he knew otherwise, yet he still made that stamen, and I will concede.

[mkultra]

85. i would say that the kennedys where very responible for the programs

that helped move kenyan students. There contribution is not diminished by this mistake.

[DaveT]

89. You cannot be serious!!!!

Let's say for argument's sake that Barack Obama knew that his father got here before the Kennedy donation helped a similar group of Kenyans come to America. Let's say further that he intentionally claimed that his father received that benefit only to make the story sound better.

OK -- it is a Lie.

If idiots think that is equivalent to Hillary's lying about her own experience in a war zone in order to convince voters that she is a better candidate, it is time for those idiots to take a chill pill.

If, for example, Hillary had said that her mother was influenced by a speech she heard by Eleanor Roosevelt and that her mother told her about that story a zillion times to help inspire young Hillary -- and then somebody came up with proof that Mom had never been to any speech by Eleanor ever, that would be an equivalent lie. That is, a lie that is a big So What.

Obama's fable about his father's air fare and my hypothetical fable about the connection to Eleanor Roosevelt do not ask the audience to believe anything of significance that is untrue on any level. Kennedy did help guys like Obama pere, and Eleanor did enspire people like Hillary. Just as Reagan lied about the Welfare Queen buying vodka with food stamps, the point behind each of these illustrative stories is true, even if the details within the stories are wrong. (Yes welfare fraud does occasionally take place.)

By rather stark contrast, Hillary repeatedly claiming that she risked "sniper fire" is a pile of shit coming and going. And that lie is intended to deceive the audience about the substance of the story -- to make people believe that Hillary has demonstrated courage that never happened.



You can spend a good stoned out night in a college dorm arguing about the ethics of politicians telling apocryphal stories as if they were true, but you aren't going to win any votes calling them liars about it.


Obama was my second to last choice in this primary. When it narrowed down to the two of them, I was not all that thrilled with having to support Obama and it was a relatively close call to support him over Rodham Clinton. But the conduct of Hillary and her supporters has been nauseating. This thread is yet another example of fundamentally dishonest crapola.

Get real, Hillary fans.

[MethuenProgressive]

93. So, your post is: "Yes he lied, now shut up!"?

His Fairy Tale is self authored Bullshit, from "Once.." to "...after."

[DaveT]

100. Actually, I don't want you to shut up.

I hope you repeat this silly crap over and over again. It helps your opponent.

Cheers.

[GOTV]

111. Please don't shut up. Be ineffective as loudly and for as long as you can.

Don't let them shut you down!

[izzybeans]

94. Another duplicated pile of shit.

:rofl:

[helderheid]

99. Xeroxed.

;)

[MethuenProgressive]

101. I'm willing to give Obama a pass on this lie from his 4x a day stump speech. if...

IF... Deval Patrick was really the one who "owed his existance to the Kennedys", and BO just stole the line by accident.
:hi:

[DerekJ]

104. I am still waiting .....

[MethuenProgressive]

117. Anyone? Anyone? Somebody? Was it a Deval Patrick line that Obama stole?

That's the usual excuse.

[DerekJ]

135. I am still waiting .....

You still haven't proved the lie .. waiting .. waiting ..

[DainBramaged]

103. No profile huh, gee I guess you have cred here

:rofl:

I love these threads, they give me great examples to show my friends how desperate the Reich wing is to have four more years of BOOSHEshit.

[Mezzo]

125. ...or that I choose not to be stalked by the likes of you. nt

[ampad]

105. It is official

You people are a pack of crazy azz loons. You know what is also official: that Hillary has lost this race and I want to thank you for making that so clear for me this morning. You are so desperate to clear the name of your lying, no bill paying, debt collecting, candidate that you are not grasping for straws. This is over, she is done. I can say another thing as well. I know some Hillary supporters and most of then are reasonable people who will vote for Obama in the GE. I think the Dem party would be better off wtithout some of you racist, sexist baiting, crazy folks. Some of you (including the OP) have fucking lost your minds. Hell, I've been telling people for a while that my youngest daughter was born in 2000 when she was really born in 2001, I forgot my anniversary once. I don't think I ever lied about kicking someone ass in a fight to make myself look tough. I just want to thank you for finally putting my mind to rest that Hillary is done. She can take the handful of crazy supporters like yourself OP and get the hell out of the party as far as I'm concern. You people take no responsibility for your actions as your sitting here talking about how Obama "lied" meanwhile your candidate lied four times and is running up debt and sticking it to the little guy. Why don't you talk about that? You know Hillary and some of her supporters are not loony tunes (as far as I know)

[Ysabel]

136. i just had to ask my husband how old i am...

- this happens at least once a week i don't know how old he is either well okay now i know he just told me he's 44 and i'm 49...

p.s. (er i think) anyway he said he'd write me a little widget to help me remember...

--------

edit / notation: new keyboard needed too...

[DemGa]

110. Seems Obama's stories have all the substance of "hope and change" --NT

[Catherine Vincent]

113. He didn't lie.

He told a little fib. No big deal.

[MethuenProgressive]

127. Obama traced his "very existence" to the generosity of the Kennedy family

Except they had nothing to do with it.

[DerekJ]

134. I am still waiting .....

[Maribelle]

132. It wasn't little. It was a huge attempt by Obama to make a connection to JFK in the people's eyes.

Obama is far from stupid - - - and this clever trick of his was extremely successful in fooling with the brains of the people there listening to him.

[mkultra]

149. if you say so

Still looks pretty rickety to me.

His father was airlifted by a program massively supported by the Kennedy's or at least something like that.


My understanding was that funding for the program was ignored by the nixon administration until the kennedy foundation pledged 100K.

Then the administration stepped in and paid for it to not allow the kennedy's to one up them.


So you can slice it how you want it but it sounds like your crafting lies out of thin air.

[mkultra]

150. the truth

Here is the truth on the airlifts from the mboya website.


http://www.tommboya.com/detail.asp?id=9


likes like the hillfolk are the ones doing the lying again.



pwnt!

[Catherine Vincent]

159. I know. I forgot to put a sarcastic smiley in my previous post. nt

[LiberalAndProud]

128. When you're done with this can we please talk about

the handshake snub some more? It was just so much more scintillating.

[Maribelle]

131. That was not the only lie he told at Selma. He lied about his parents 'crossing the bridge' .

All of this was done by him purposely to snooker the African-Americans if they were thinking about voting for Hillary. It was Obama's quest from the very beginning of his campaign to steal the black vote away from Hillary with lies, deception, and playing the race card - - just as Axlerod did for Deval Patrick right around the time Obama gave a big speech for Patrick in Massachusetts, and just as Axlerod did against Nutter right around the time Obama gave a big speech in Philadelphia against Nutter .

Obama's Other Nine Exaggerations

Law Professor Ann Althouse examines the enduring flap over whether Barack Obama really was a law professor. (Was Barack Obama a "law professor"? http://althouse.blogspot.com/2008/03/was-barack-obama-law-professor.html) She makes a more important point-- that we shouldn't forget the other 9 exaggerations raised by the Clinton campaign.

1. Obama claimed credit for nuclear leak legislation that never passed.
2. Obama misspoke about his being conceived because of Selma.
3. Sen. Obama took too much credit for his community organizing efforts.
4. Obama's assertion that nobody had indications Rezko was engaging in wrongdoing 'strains credulity.' "
5. Obama was forced to revise his assertion that lobbyists 'won't work in my White House.'
6. 'Selective, embellished and out-of-context quotes from newspapers pump up Obama's health plan.'
7. Sen. Obama said 'I passed a law that put Illinois on a path to universal coverage,' but Obama health care legislation merely set up a task force.
8. 'Obama…seemed to exaggerate the legislative progress he made' on ethics reform.
9. Obama drastically overstated Kansas tornado deaths during campaign appearance.

more ...
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/3/30/231735/348

[MethuenProgressive]

151. That lie, linking his conception to a famous Civil Rights march, was disgusting.

He has no morals whatsoever.

[PaulaFarrell]

172. why would he want to snooker African-Americans?

does he not like them? or do you not know what snooker means?

[Eurobabe]

137. I thought I had you on ignore? C'ya!!

[navarth]

143. THIS THREAD STINKS, LET IT SINK

How the fuck much help do you all want to give McCain? Stop this bullshit PLEASE.

[indimuse]

146. Something else he said in Selma...

"This is the site of my conception --I'm the fruits of your labor -- I am the offspring of 'The Movement'..." -Barack Obama


what movement is he talikng about?

[Cheap_Trick]

147. just for desperate posts like yours, I have to say

when hillary LOSES:




NO ZOLOFT FOR YOU!

[Warren DeMontague]

148. Hillary supporters, this is where your campaign donations are going.

To pay people to frantically dig for this kind of completely meaningless crap, and then get corporate media shills to print it...

...to desperately try to deflect from stuff like Hillary's deliberate (and relevant, because it ties into her alleged mountains of "experience" as the wife of the ex-President) LIE re: Bosnia.

Looky over there! See, Obama lied too!


...:eyes:

[Name removed]

152. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JayFredMuggs]

153. Thanks for that informative link!

That sounds like the Hillary "truth-tellers" are a bit lacking in the truth.....again!

[MethuenProgressive]

184. Obama's spokesman already admitted Obama lied - try to keep up!

It's in the OP.

[EmilyAnne]

155. This is absolutely PITIFUL! That article is so interesting and I learned a lot about a very

beautiful part of the history between the US and Kenya. Harping on the fact that funding from the Kennedy's "started 48 years ago, not 49 years ago as Obama has mistakenly suggested in the past" is like something out of the Onion! The article goes on to say that Obama's father received funding from the Kennedy's a year later, along with the other Kenyans.

Barack Obama is not winning this primary because some people though that the Kennedy's paid for the airlift in 1958 rather than 1959.

Barack Obama is not winning this primary because some people thought the actual Selma march brought Obama's parents together rather than the cultural climate that made the Selma march necessary.

This is such bullshit that I really feel bad for people who see things this way. Its bizarre. Its sick. Get over your damn personal problems and remember what is at stake this election.

[Mezzo]

156. It is pitiful that he "owes his very existence" to a lie. nt

[Qutzupalotl]

177. What's pitiful is that you owe your presence here to a smear campaign,

and an inconsequential one at that.

Honest mistakes are just honest mistakes. Lies are DELIBERATE.

Welcome to ignore.

And don't give me that bullshit about "not being able to handle dissent." If your OP had substance, I wouldn't be saying buh-bye.

Buh-bye.

[DrFunkenstein]

182. I Blame Sir Edmund Hillary

Considering that Bill Clinton has spun so many yarns that he's come to be seen as a kind of Huck Finn of Democratic politics, this is a pretty weird mutation of faux outrage.

[FlaGranny]

158. Emily Anne

Wonderful post. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[futureliveshere]

166. This is inconsequential like Hillary being named after Sir Edmund Hillary 4 years BEFORE Mt. Everest

The public is intelligent enough to sift through the chatter and strike at the real falsehoods that matter.

[Skip Intro]

170. Kick.

[AJ Franklin]

176. That's why they call him ALL-TALK-BARACK

It's lies wrapped in fairy tales and held together with dreams. How sweet. JUST WHAT WE NEED FOR PRESIDENT.

[odelisk8]

180. perhaps

obama knew the kennedy's had been involved a LONG time, you know, only a YEAR after, and was mistaken, by a YEAR, as to how long and made the connection based on erroneous knowledge...this is NOT as clear a case of lying as misremembering being under sniper fire...sorry...it MAY be a lie, and if it is it would be wrong...and i am only a reluctant obama supporter...so, for what that's worth...

[DrFunkenstein]

181. What a Scumbag! He Is Totally Unelectable! This is an Outrage!!!!

And he wrote an essay in kindergarten about wanting to be President!!!

(is it too early to impeach him?)

[mucifer]

185. hmmmm 2 politicians who lie? I'd never believe a politician could lie.

[moondust]

186. Minor historical inaccuracy.

Barack wasn't around at that time so he was probably drawing on things he heard in the family growing up.

There's not much difference in saying his father was aided by a small organization that soon thereafter became a cause of the Kennedy family.

[MethuenProgressive]

187. "I owe my entire existence to the Kennedys!" is not just a lie, it's a fucking Fairy Tale.

He tried to build Himself up by lying He had an amazing connection to the Kennedys.
It's the same kind of lie he's been telling about being conceived during a civil rights march in Selma.
He's writing his own Fairy Tale.

[BigDDem]

189. but, but but... it's so cute when Barry lies

wait, I thought he was infallible