FOR THE RECORD-Obama never said a child is punishment!

[jenmito]

He said,

"This is a very difficult issue, and I understand sort of the passions on both sides of the issue," he said. "I have two precious daughters — they are miracles."

But politicians must trust women to make the right decisions for themselves, he said.

"This is an example where good people can disagree," the Illinois senator said. "The question then is, are there areas that we can agree to that everybody can get behind? We can all agree that we want to reduce teen pregnancies. We can all agree that we want to make sure that adoption is a viable option."

The exchange appeared to be prompted by Obama's earlier comments that he does not favor abstinence-only education, but rather comprehensive sexual education that includes information on abstinence and birth control.

"Look, I got two daughters — 9 years old and 6 years old," he said. "I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby. I don't want them punished with an STD at age 16, so it doesn't make sense to not give them information."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Stop_these_abortions_.html

[anonymous171]

1. There you are with your "facts" and "sources"

We're all about innuendo and lack of context here. :sarcasm:

:kick:

[jenmito]

8. It's my job, I guess...

I'm tired of the many misleading threads here about this.

[damntexdem]

27. I'm sick of HRC supporters making up the RW/GOP spin.

They will make up their own spin out of anything Obama says. They don't need Dem help. But Dems, especially, don't need Dems helping the RW.

I'm not attacking Hillary here. But I am attacking the idiots who call themselves Democrats but do the RW's job for it. Taking Obama's comments out of context to smear him is something that no Democrat should perpetrate.

[jenmito]

31. So am I...

I'm even sicker of the MSM doing it!

[decdecdecdecdecdecde]

101. Me too.

But I wish it weren't always so damsel-in-distress. He could've used other words. I wouldn't want her to have to bear consequences both emotional and physical. I wouldn't want her to be faced with such a difficult choice at such a tender age. He could've said anything else. And when he was done, he added: I wouldn't want her punished with a venereal disease. Santo Dio Cristo! That he could say such a dumb thing on top of another dumb thing is really bothersome to me. We shouldn't always be placed in the position of 'rescuing' him. He should know more words than we know. He should be able to say everything better. He has the best education money can buy and he says this. I'm starting to think Hillary.

[slinkerwink]

2. kicking for full quote

[YOY]

I only know of one DUer making a deal of it

and she is a true blue (red) jerkette.

[Whisp]

17. yes, I know the one.

lots of shameful things coming from her way - then she'll make a huggy post and suck up to everyone then start on the over the top ugly lieing all over again.

[YOY]

18. Yup.

n/t

[jgraz]

3. It is truly sick to twist a pro-choice argument in order to smear a fellow Democrat

Another example of how some of Hillary's supporters don't care one whit about anything but winning.

[BeyondGeography]

4. And so ends another episode of "American politics can be dumb as fuck"

[sandnsea]

5. The hypocrisy is just pissing me off

I have seen post after post attacking the religious right for opposing abortion because they believe women should be punished for having sex. Obama takes it on, point blank, and these DU hypocrites attack him for it.

[DearAbby]

6. Ignorance is the punishment

and can be cured with education, and a willingness to care for one another.

[bobbert]

7. what? no spin?

Why didn't you only post a few words from the article?

[jenmito]

23. Sorry, but that's how I roll.

:D

[dbonds]

9. Context, we don't need no stinking contex

:sarcasm:

[LakeSamish706]

As usual. Barack was taken out of context again where someone cherry picked...

a one liner out of what was really said... Thats so unusual for them to do that to Obama.... :sarcasm:

[jenmito]

12. The bad thing is it was taken out of context on MSNBC today by Andrea Mitchell,

asking one of Obama's supporters if Obama "misspoke." :eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. Obama is against forcing women to commit the reproductive act.

Does that mean Clinton supporters are pro-rape? Yes, it does.

:eyes:

[DerekJ]

11. I am mad as hell

:mad: :mad:
Just to sling mud at Obama, they all changed to "pro-life" all of a sudden.
freaks .. FREAAAAAAAAAAKKKKKKKSSSSS.

[Barack_America]

13. Funny what a difference "with" versus "by" makes...

"punished with a baby" means that the punishment results in a baby. Which is typically what happens when pregnancies progress. So the "punishment" (denial of abortion access) results in the person ending up "with" a child.

punished "by" a baby would mean that the baby itself is the cause of the punishment. This is NOT what Obama said.

[DangerDave921]

95. I'm a lawyer but

your parsing of words is even too much for me. With or by? Come on. That makes no difference at all in his statement.

He was saying that pregnancy WHEN YOUNG AND SINGLE is a punishment. Not for older married folks.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

14. NO CONTEXT ALLOWED!!!!!! This makes him seem too reasonable and thoughtful. Slander is better.

[Forkboy]

15. The people against this are soulless cretins.

I've already lost any respect I had for one person over this. I can't believe ANY person claiming to be a Democrat or Liberal wouldn't get exactly what he meant unless they CHOSE to be an ignorant asshole.

[Cheap_Trick]

16. hillarites, like RWers, like to cherry-pick

to get the desired results.

[dbmk]

92. Hey, we Obamatrons like to cherry pick too!

Of all the senators lying about sniper fire we chose to call out Senator Clinton. Thats hardly fair.

[ellacott]

19. I'm amazed at this faux outrage

It's really pitiful.

[jenmito]

21. So am I. But for the MSM to take it out of context, too, is REALLY pitiful.

[ellacott]

33. Yes, that is pitiful also

Our MSM has lost much of it's credibility.

[jenmito]

36. Yup...

we have to email them and let them know we disapprove.

[me b zola]

20. Thanks

K&R

[jenmito]

22. No problem!

And thanks! :hi:

[uponit7771]

24. But he DID say he wears socks and shoes !!!!! ......................:-)

[Scurrilous]

25. K & R

:kick:

[jenmito]

38. Thanks, Scurrilous!

:hi:

[DarienComp]

26. They're like human Rorschach tests.

Just throwing whatever they can up on the wall and hoping that it sticks. One day Obama is a crazy Muslim, the next day he's a crazy Christian. Obama's secretly pro-life, no wait, now he's radically pro-choice. Obama loves Reagan, Obama's too liberal for middle-America. Obama's too black, and he's not black enough. And on, and on, and on, until August, I guess.

[jenmito]

28. Exactly...

but forget "pro-choice," they're trying to paint him as "pro-ABORTION."

[DarienComp]

34. What they really want to say is that Obama hates his children.

Which should tell you all you need to know about their moral character.

[jenmito]

39. Don't forget...

he hates his country, too. :eyes:

[DarienComp]

43. No, that's his wife, who's been repeatedly told to "shut up" by Hillary supporters on this board...

of course, if anyone suggests that Hillary "shut up", they're automatically misogynists who are "afraid of strong women."

[jenmito]

45. True, but it's him, too, according to the RWers. n/t

[DarienComp]

46. Ahh, but of course.

Sadly, I'm having trouble telling the difference these days between the Hillary supporters and the RWers.

[jenmito]

55. Same here...

which is why I really wish Hillary would get out of the race. We need to get on the same side and run against the Repubs.

[WillyT]

29. Big K & R !!!

:bounce::yourock::bounce:

:hi:

[jenmito]

32. Thanks, Willy!

:hi:

[DevonRex]

30. K&R

I think the RWers want children to have babies so they'll know who to point their fingers at and call "sinners." Where would they be if they couldn't pretend they were more moral than anybody else.

[jenmito]

35. Thanks, fellow Jennifer...

and it's even worse when supposed Dems. use the same lines!

[DevonRex]

49. Yes it is.

Absolutely. I can't believe the crap coming out of some people's mouths around here sometimes.

[TheDonkey]

37. OMG HE'S A MONSTER!!!!111!!!!

That's probably one of the best responses to abortion I have ever heard. Very reasonable and gets to the heart of it, let women be responsible to make the right decisions.

[jenmito]

40. Yup...

When they take one sentence out of context and even asking if he "misspoke" (as Andrea Mitchell did), that's the lowest of the low.

[polmaven]

99. Well, except....

It wasn't about abortion.

[loveangelc]

41. The fact that this is an issue even is SAD!

[Forkboy]

42. And note that none of the swine are in this thread.

[Life Long Dem]

44. I'd like to hear from woman over this. What are the advantages

of having a baby at 16 years of age? I know there must be a lot of disadvantages, but are woman saying there are none?

[Irishonly]

47. What Happened Now?

I thought Obama was pro choice and for comprehensive sex education. He said something about prayerful consideration and whether or not a woman uses prayer when deciding is not an issue. I know of no woman who chose abortion on a whim. I don't see the problem with what he said. He was talking mistakes and not children.

[jenmito]

48. It's that some here and on TV have been taking one sentence out of context. n/t

[Irishonly]

51. Cripes

There's too much happening in this country to worry about rather than having a war of words. I knew some people were upset by his prayerful comment and I didn't understand that either. Thank you for explaining it to me. I have an almost 18 year old and I have been saying pretty much the same thing for years. She's old enough now to be aware of the morning after pill and how you try to prevent a pregnancy in the first place.

[jenmito]

54. No problem!

Good points! :hi:

[ClassWarrior]

50. Babies ARE punishment. And blessings.

:shrug:

Anyone who sez different never raised one.

NGU.

[jenmito]

56. That's your opinion but it's not what Obama said. And that's the point of this thread.

:shrug:

[Debi]

52. Kick for telling the truth - that really gets on people's nerves! n/t

[jenmito]

57. Thanks. I'm STILL waiting for someone to come here and argue the FULL quote. n/t

[azmouse]

61. They can't argue the full quote 'cause that would destroy their faux outrage.

It's beyond disgusting how these 'Dems' have jumped on this. If their candidate had anything positive they wouldn't have to try to tear down Obama with RW spin.

[jenmito]

64. I agree. There was ONE Hillary supporter who posted here and had no problem with the full quote.`

:hi:

[writes3000]

53. THANK YOU! I've been looking for his whole statement. I agree 100% with this - especially

Because there are some who believe that we shouldn't teach our children anything regarding sex. If they get pregnant or get an STD because of a lack of information, it is horribly unfair.

[jenmito]

59. No problemo!

Exactly! :hi:

[juajen]

58. Sounds very sensible and democratic to me. What was the problem?

nt

[jenmito]

60. The problem is some here took one sentence out of context as if it's all he said:

"I don't want them punished with a baby," saying he said a baby is punishment. I was just putting the quote in context. Check out this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5329707&mesg_id=5329707

[polmaven]

85. The linked thread is locked,

so I need to put in my two cents worth here, (if you don't mind).

I do have to wonder how that whole thing became a commentary on who is or who is not pro-choice!

The context of Senator Obama's statement, to my understanding, had nothing at all to do with abortion. It was commentary on full sex education, including the use of condoms and other forms of birth control vs. the abstinence only courses being taught in some schools.

Can we all agree that Senator Obama did not MEAN to imply that babies are punishment, but that he really did use a poor choice of words. "Punished by an unwanted pregnancy" may have been better. The RW will use that clip to their advantage in myriad of TV ads....We all know that.

[IndependentDem]

94. agreed! its nice to see that we are on the same page here. n/t

[SunsetDreams]

62. agreed :)

[azmouse]

63. I'm keeping this kicked as long as the other thread

misrepresenting what Obama said is at the top of the list.

[jenmito]

65. Thanks...

I'll try, too. :hi:

[azmouse]

66. kick

[azmouse]

74. kick II

[azmouse]

75. kick III

[jenmito]

67. kick

[jenmito]

68. Kick.

[Lord Helmet]

69. for the record who the hell cares about this nonstory?

it's just crap for the Clinton people to bathe themsevles in

[jenmito]

71. They keep starting threads about it, so I'll keep kicking the truth. And the MSM has

picked it up, too.

[Lord Helmet]

72. It's the only thing people can do to insist on the truth.

[K Gardner]

70. But.. but.. the Hillary crew said.... !!!

[jenmito]

73. Kick.

[1776Forever]

76. IMHO Both the mother and child are burdened - it goes both ways for a young teen mother!

Sometimes people will say, "How did you do it?", when I tell them I had 5 children in 7 years. Starting at 18 and until I was 25 I had 5 sons. These boys are all great young men now, but back then I kept asking God over and over, why did he give them to me with a husband who became totally disabled 8 years after the last one was born. I had to wait until I had 5 sons in 1971 to have my tubes tide per the laws in Ohio at that time. I couldn't take the "new" birth control pills because my blood clotted too much on them. I never thought about an abortion but I knew some of the richer kids in town had had them.

I had to wait until they were in the early teens before I got to go to college on a grant and continue to work myself into a good job before we moved out of poverty. My mother was 40 when I was born and never talked about anything in regard to the sexual side of life, and there was no instruction at all in school in the early 60's except for a few books I got from the library.

I agree with Barack that we need to offer our teens more open and honest information so they can make a good choice for themselves and their future children. This should include monetary information on how much it cost to raise a child and how long it takes until the child grows up and are 'hopefully' on their own. It is always easy for people who haven't been through this situation, that might include an abortion without any support or opportunity, to look down on people that find themselves in this situation and with the economy so bad now it will probably be something that occurs more then ever now.

[jgraz]

77. At some point, we need to stop dignifying this horseshit with a response

This one is, once again, a new low for the rabid Hillaroids.

[file83]

78. There is, however, the reality of the SOUND BITE. And Obama better be smarter in

his choice of words if he intends on winning the moderate vote. Saying "baby" and "punishment" in the same sentence was a bad choice, considering the political context.

After all, we are talking about CONTEXT here, right? Well, in the context of today's sound bite fueled world, he should have left the "punished with a baby" statement out and stayed with the STD statement, after all, you can't take that out of context.

We need Obama to play smarter at this game.

[Infinite Hope]

79. The problem is he used poor wording. He's speaking about prevention, but said "if they make a mistak

mistake"...which provides the context. 'If the mistake has already occurred (he said) I don't want them to be punished.' Critics are accurately describing his words, though not his intent.

[ekwhite]

80. K&R

I heard a little on MSNBC about how Obama 'misspoke.' I'm glad to get the context behind it. Now that I hear what he said in context, it makes perfect sense, and is actually a great answer.

[MethuenProgressive]

81. "if they make a mistake,I don't want them punished with a baby"

So he really did say that?
Disgusting.

[MNDemNY]

82. But, he didn't mean what you think.

It takes a whole new meaning when properly translated into english from obamaese.

[jenmito]

86. He meant what he said. Your problem is you obviously refuse to read his whole answer.

Get real.

[MNDemNY]

87. Yes, I fail to take into account the holiness of obama.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[polmaven]

83. Yes, he actually said that.

I do thing, for "context" what he MEANT to say was that he didn't want them to be punished with an unwanted pregnancy.

The topic was abstinence only vs. full spectrum sex education, including birth control.

He used a poor choice of words to be sure. His intent was actually clear. I do think it is defensible, but he needs to go on record about that defense. I say that because we all know exactly what the James Dobsons of this world will do with that sound byte.

[jenmito]

84. Typical RW tactic-take one sentence totally out of context.

You're disgusting.

[MNDemNY]

88. Your only redeeming "context" is that obama said it.

[IronLionZion]

90. You must be new here.

Facts and full context have no place in online political discussions here.


Thanks for sharing this! :toast:

[jenmito]

93. ...

Thanks for the compliment. :hi:

[treestar]

91. At least it's about what he said himself

and not his minister.

[loyalsister]

96. But politicians must trust women to make the right decisions for themselves

What is the problem here? Why isn't Hillary Clinton coming out with a statement supporting him?

[2rth2pwr]

102. You really think Hillary supports the idea that babies are punishment?

[loyalsister]

103. Do you seriously truly think that's what Obama meant?

??

[2rth2pwr]

104. Are these his words?

"I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby. I don't want them punished with an STD at age 16, so it doesn't make sense to not give them information."

[loyalsister]

105. Words can be flexible things, eh......

"Punished with a baby" is not near what you are implying, and you know it.
Anyone who wants to impose that interpretation just hates him and wants to invent a problem with something he says anyway. Or maybe they are pro-life and spin things in the direction that suits that agenda? Either way it is spin to suit an agenda.

Here are the facts. As noted many times in the discussion of this issues.
If a person has been close to a teenage pregnancy they should understand what it means.

It means stigma, lost opportunities, and a level of responsibility that is much larger than a woman is prepared for. In other words punishment. This is whether she keeps the baby or not. The entire process (biological, etc.) includes all of those things.
I have seen it up close. The life of addiction, and poor relationships between both mothers and daughters and tension in the surrounding family were all a part of the struggle. Financial struggles made it so that her siblings were punished as well.

[2rth2pwr]

106. "Don't tell me words don't matter!"

“Don’t tell me words don’t matter,”


‘I have a dream’ — just words?

‘We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal’ — just words?

‘We have nothing to fear but fear itself’ — just words?

'..I don't want them punished with a baby' - just words?



eta-pic link

[loyalsister]

107. I saw that coming

‘We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal’

MEN are equal right?

If we are to be as literal as you would like to be, well that's where we go.

[2rth2pwr]

108. what the...?

It's random sentence time? ok.

"The boat thirsts opposite the truncated emulator."

[loyalsister]

109. Did he really mean that only men are equal?

"Men only" no wonder pweople say Obama is sexist. Is that really what he meant? Do we really want to go there? If we were going to play your brand of gotcha politics. That is what we would challenge.

That is how ridiculous this interpretation is.

[2rth2pwr]

112. Actually, Obama was only repeating the famous opening words in the

U.S. Constitution. But, you knew that.

man is a male human. The term man (irregular plural: men) is used for an adult human male, with the term boy being the usual term for a human male child or adolescent human male. However, man can refer to humanity as a whole and is also sometimes used to identify a male human, regardless of age, as in phrases such as "Men's rights".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man

[loyalsister]

113. Okay now you're learning

So, the phrase was general and you feel compelled to assign the most positive or at least an innocuous spin on those "words."
Is that because of who wrote them or because they are not influencing your agenda?

The phrase in discussion here where Obama is accused of calling children "punishment," is similar.
"Punished with a child"
Not punished by a child.
Not suffering at the hands of a child.


1. accompanied by; accompanying: I will go with you. He fought with his brother against the enemy.
2. in some particular relation to (esp. implying interaction, company, association, conjunction, or connection): I dealt with the problem. She agreed with me.
3. characterized by or having: a person with initiative.
4. (of means or instrument) by the use of; using: to line a coat with silk; to cut with a knife.
5. (of manner) using or showing: to work with diligence.
6. in correspondence, comparison, or proportion to: Their power increased with their number. How does their plan compare with ours?
7. in regard to: to be pleased with a gift.
8. (of cause) owing to: to die with pneumonia; to pale with fear.
9. in the region, sphere, or view of: It is day with us while it is night with the Chinese.
10. (of separation) from: to part with a thing.
11. against, as in opposition or competition: He fought with his brother over the inheritance.
12. in the keeping or service of: to leave something with a friend.
13. in affecting the judgment, estimation, or consideration of: Her argument carried a lot of weight with the trustees.
14. at the same time as or immediately after; upon: And with that last remark, she turned and left.

The only way your interpretation works is if it is imposed through some semantic acrobats. You know he meant a broad idea of life punishment as a result of a lack of education, but you want to narrow the meaning. Kind of like that "man\humanity" thing.

I have a sneaking suspicion that some of the people who are having all the problems with someone who would say he trusts women are actually just pro-life. These are people who can't see babies as anything other than joy. It would be nice if life were always so easy.
One person I talked to said that abortion shouldn't be legal even in the case of rape because having a baby is such a joy that it would be something good that would come of the rape.

[2rth2pwr]

114. First off, he never said punished with a child. He said

punished with a baby. Second your attempt to alter what he said based on the definition and usage of the word "with" is hilarious.

Number 7. in regard to: to be pleased with a gift. What's operative in your example is "in regard to" not "pleased with a gift". "pleased with a gift" could easily be replaced with and still be an example of "in regard to" with "punished with a baby".

Now if you want to argue that he didn't mean 'A baby is punishment' and what he was really saying was that "A baby is a life punishment" fine, but I don't think that will go over very well either.

bye.

[loyalsister]

115. I misquoted

child for baby.
Regardless. Yes we are talking about the same thing. And you still continue to spew your BS.
I said exactly with regard to.
There is also that accompanied by language thus.....

In broad terms that most people can understand:
economic life changes
lost opportunities for the future
negative social effects
lost educational opportunities

If a person would like to pretend that that meaning is lost on them then they must simply be trying to distort the meaning.

Only men are created equal, after all

[loyalsister]

110. dupe

[loyalsister]

dupe

[loyalsister]

111. dupe

[loyalsister]

But politicians must trust women to make the right decisions for themselves

What is the problem here? Why isn't Hillary Clinton coming out with a statement supporting him?

[loyalsister]

97. dupe self delete

Sorry-- Windows Vista sucks!

[Myrina]

98. I heard what he said and immediately thought ...

D'oh! :spank:

Would that we could get do-overs & history re-writes the same way Dimson has for the past 7 years ...

[Buzz Clik]

100. kick